To add, Accelgor gets Me First as a risky gimmick move to steal an opponent's offensive move before it can use it. IMO, Escavalier's movepool is more shallow than Accelgor's, because Accelgor can turn to Hidden Power for more coverage while Escavalier can't, thanks to its poor Special Attack.
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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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But it comes late and is not nearly as good as Petilil. And Top tier? Madness! It is nowhere near comparable to titans like Sigilyph.
So I've been using Vanillite since Cold Storage, and it's actually pretty good!
It wasn't as frail as I thought it'd be, and even when it just had Icy Wind it was dealing a lot of damage. If it didn't KO, Icy Wind's speed drop often makes it faster than whatever it's facing. Move pool may be shallow, but it doesn't really need a lot of moves (I'm running both Ice Beam & Icy Wind right now, for example). Acid Armor is also pretty slick, I think.
I'd probably keep it in the mid-tier due to coming at the half-way marker, but I'd definitely move it up several spaces. Perhaps upper-mid, even!
Speaking of, why are Ducklett & Joltik so high again?
It wasn't as frail as I thought it'd be, and even when it just had Icy Wind it was dealing a lot of damage. If it didn't KO, Icy Wind's speed drop often makes it faster than whatever it's facing. Move pool may be shallow, but it doesn't really need a lot of moves (I'm running both Ice Beam & Icy Wind right now, for example). Acid Armor is also pretty slick, I think.
I'd probably keep it in the mid-tier due to coming at the half-way marker, but I'd definitely move it up several spaces. Perhaps upper-mid, even!
Speaking of, why are Ducklett & Joltik so high again?
Speaking from experience, Joltik is rape. I've used him twice, and holy hell. He comes right before the Flying gym, and destroys everything Skyla and her trainers have with his Electric moves. Shortly afterward, you pick up Thunder at Icirrus, which we all know combines with Compoundeyes for ultimate destruction. Plus: Bug moves are handy against half the E4, and he resists Marshal's Fighting moves (but must beware the rocks...). Not to mention a certain Dark/Dragon who is rather vulnerable to Signal Beam/Bug Buzz.
Ducklett I haven't used, but it comes just prior to a Ground-type specialist, similar to Joltik. Plus, Swanna seems to be well-rounded among the game's Water-types. And it can Fly, so yeah.
Any chance we're going to see an update to the OP? It hasn't been changed since November.
Ofc I said not to send it to top tier. I'm curious though, what makes Petilil so good?
QUIVER FRICKING DANCE! As well as Petal Dance w/o confusion if you have Own Tempo (and 180 power), Sleep Powder for utility, and Leech Seed is good for long battles. Also if you want more coverage than mono grass, try Dream Eater.
ok part 2
very strong, stays useful throughout the whole game. not as good as darmanitan but you can certainly do a lot worse. Top
elvis monkey is alright. seed bomb early is very useful, although he does lack coverage and evolving him early isn't a great idea as i found out. Upper Mid
very, very good. rock blast is extremely powerful early on and can be replaced with rock slide/stone edge easily. bit of a shame i replaced him with an even better pokémon but he's definitely usable. High
the best water-type in the game if you haven't chosen wotter. he does need a little babying but he's still ok, and immunity to electric is always nice. Upper Mid
mono-grass isn't a problem, as sleep powder and quiver dance more than made up for it. nicknamed mine alice since pluff named her galvantula john! High
well, fuck. this thing is ridiculous, and defeatist isn't even a problem since it's in-game, and you should have money for healing items. God
needed a lot of babying, but completely stomped the last gym and the last two boss fights. not bad for a cute little dragon. Upper Mid
a big disappointment for me. powerful, but got outsped by a lot of things even after evolution, and it doesn't even have the bulk that reuniclus had. at least it looks cool. Lower Mid
fantastic game, best one in the series, i'm not touching it again for a while. i'm playing layton instead.
very strong, stays useful throughout the whole game. not as good as darmanitan but you can certainly do a lot worse. Top
elvis monkey is alright. seed bomb early is very useful, although he does lack coverage and evolving him early isn't a great idea as i found out. Upper Mid
very, very good. rock blast is extremely powerful early on and can be replaced with rock slide/stone edge easily. bit of a shame i replaced him with an even better pokémon but he's definitely usable. High
the best water-type in the game if you haven't chosen wotter. he does need a little babying but he's still ok, and immunity to electric is always nice. Upper Mid
mono-grass isn't a problem, as sleep powder and quiver dance more than made up for it. nicknamed mine alice since pluff named her galvantula john! High
well, fuck. this thing is ridiculous, and defeatist isn't even a problem since it's in-game, and you should have money for healing items. God
needed a lot of babying, but completely stomped the last gym and the last two boss fights. not bad for a cute little dragon. Upper Mid
a big disappointment for me. powerful, but got outsped by a lot of things even after evolution, and it doesn't even have the bulk that reuniclus had. at least it looks cool. Lower Mid
fantastic game, best one in the series, i'm not touching it again for a while. i'm playing layton instead.
This. He doesn't come that early, but when he does come, it's extremely opportune. Charge Beam TM, Thunder by the time he's evolved, the Tower (Bug attacks with a bit of help from his Electric attacks against Sigilyph basically ruin that), Skyla (a few levels against the whole gym there), Lucky Egg and Volt Switch to help level up, etc. He resists the attacks of most the things you'll be running into in Chargestone Cave as well, e.g. Klink. Once he has Thunder, he's a little frail but extremely fast and extremely strong, so most things won't be surviving hits from him anyway... His position is justified imo, in fact he could go even higher. You only have to help him a bit through the Plasma part of the cave but his Bug attacks hit the likes of Sandile SE anyway and once you're out, it's fairly smooth sailing. I was really impressed by his performance.
Even though Ducklett and Swanna only learn Water and Flying moves by level up, Water + Flying provides good neutral coverage. IMO, the only HM you should use on it is Surf (or Fly if you want).
I figured the front post listed everything in ranking.
Guess I was wrong?
Is it me, or is shaking grass the least common rare occurence dealy (ie dust, whirlpool, etc)?
I've seen two whirlpools in Driftveil City (despite no Surf - the game loves to torture me), I've seen probably half a dozen Duckletts, and five Drilburs, yet no shaking grass.
Anywho, continuing from this post, I've evolved my Pansage, and it's actually somewhat... not suckish now. Rock Tomb is a good TM to use on it, if you bother getting it.
I've seen two whirlpools in Driftveil City (despite no Surf - the game loves to torture me), I've seen probably half a dozen Duckletts, and five Drilburs, yet no shaking grass.
Anywho, continuing from this post, I've evolved my Pansage, and it's actually somewhat... not suckish now. Rock Tomb is a good TM to use on it, if you bother getting it.
All three monkeys are pretty bad outside of the first gym until they evolve. Theirs stats are just crap. Unfortunaetly they don't learn any new moves once they evolve. I easily nominate all of them for High Bottom tier on account that they are useful against the first gym and that's pretty much it.
Reading through this topic, half the pokemon in the game would be high or top tier if we listened to everybody's opinion <_<
Really, I think there are only 12 Pokemon that are viable candidates for high or top tier:
Archen, Cottonee, Darkumaka, Drillbur, Joltik, Lillipup, Oshawatt, Sandile, Sawk, Scraggy, Sigilyph and Tepig
No other Pokemon should realistically be in the high/top region, and I would be happy to debate with anybody who thinks otherwise.
Really, I think there are only 12 Pokemon that are viable candidates for high or top tier:
Archen, Cottonee, Darkumaka, Drillbur, Joltik, Lillipup, Oshawatt, Sandile, Sawk, Scraggy, Sigilyph and Tepig
No other Pokemon should realistically be in the high/top region, and I would be happy to debate with anybody who thinks otherwise.
I'd even be willing to say that Tepig might not make the cutoff simply because of how retardedly good Darumaka is. A Top/High Tier Pokemon is in my opinion one that provides unmatched utility as well as availability, and Tepig just doesn't provide a whole lot that Darumaka doesn't provide better.
Agreeing with that, Darumaka is superior to Tepig in basically every way. Against the first gym your starter doesn't matter, and you can catch better fighting types (that is, they have stronger moves) before you fight the second (normal) gym. As we all know you can go into the desert and get Darumaka before the third (bug) gym. So being a starter doesn't really matter when Darumaka can beat the things you need to anyway.
I'm not sure I'd put Snivy in the same tier as Joltik or Scraggy... those two are just leagues better. I think Snivy should be put in mid. Its STAB moves are just weak until level 32, and you're stuck with Leaf Tornado until then (or Grass Knot). I know it's a starter but... Pansage gets Seed Bomb at level 22 and its final form at Castelia. It gets much better coverage than Snivy, with Grass + Flying + Dark + Fighting moves at its disposal. Plus, the monkeys are basically pseudo-starters. I'm not saying you should keep Pansage, but you should keep Upper Mid Pokemon and I don't think you should keep Snivy.
I'm not sure I'd put Snivy in the same tier as Joltik or Scraggy... those two are just leagues better. I think Snivy should be put in mid. Its STAB moves are just weak until level 32, and you're stuck with Leaf Tornado until then (or Grass Knot). I know it's a starter but... Pansage gets Seed Bomb at level 22 and its final form at Castelia. It gets much better coverage than Snivy, with Grass + Flying + Dark + Fighting moves at its disposal. Plus, the monkeys are basically pseudo-starters. I'm not saying you should keep Pansage, but you should keep Upper Mid Pokemon and I don't think you should keep Snivy.
Nominating Tirtouga (Purotooga) for a tier bump, Mid to Upper Mid. It's a highish level when you get it (Lv. 25, same as Elesa's Emolgas), and comes knowing Aqua Jet, Ancientpower, and Crunch. Yeah, it's slow as crap, but it does actually take hits (especially physical ones), and Aqua Jet exists. As a Rock type, it also gets access to Dig and Bulldoze via Technical Machine, and as a Water type, it gets Scald and Brine (which reminds me - it can go mixed) with which to replace Wide Guard.
Plus Rock Tomb, Shadow Claw, and Dig.
Yeah. This thing has a wiiiiiiide movepool.
Plus Rock Tomb, Shadow Claw, and Dig.
Yeah. This thing has a wiiiiiiide movepool.
Elesa specialises in Electric types, which just happen to hit Tirtouga for SE. Volt Switch hits his shitty 45 SpD, so have fun surviving. Also, parahax from Emolga's Static. You'll love it (not!)
I'm going to say Galvantula needs to be higher, because it can do lots of other useful things too. Compoundeyes makes it part of the Item-Farm combo, and it can learn Thief itself. If you're using to catch pokemon then they're likely to have items, and with Thunder Wave that's even better. It also learns Spider Web from Move Tutor, so it can trap the roaming legendaries. It's moves are also fantastic, Thunder and Signal Beam/Bug Buzz are already great but Energy Ball gives it excellent coverage, leaving an extra slot for all manner of things - Volt Switch, Charge Beam, or whatever your fancy. This thing is extremely useful.
I agree with this list with two exceptions. Tepig is outclassed by darumaka as others have said and I think that deerling deserves another look. You get it early enough to be worth training and it has a very nice stat distribution. More importantly, as powerful as darmanitan and excadrill are they share both water and ground weaknesses, which means a team with both of them really wants a grass type to absorb hits. Sawsbuck has the bulk to take resisted hits without any problems and has great offensive capabilities compared to the other grass types you can choose from. 100 base attack with grass/fighting/electric coverage is pretty awesome and complements the other top end pokemon perfectly.
Well, I completed my first run with Snivy, now starting one with Oshawott. Here's where my opinion stands.
Snivy - I was really hoping it would be better lol. Leaf Tornado has shit PP, Snivy has few moves outside of Grass ones till late in the game and its offenses are overall medicore. I felt like it was holding me back the entire game offensively. Not to mention there are better grass-types in the game.
However, Growth / Leaf Blade / Dragon Tail / Grass Knot was sweet endgame, and his tanking ability was helpful during the final fights. Servine pretty much soloed Clay's gym. Overall, I'd say Snivy is middle tier. I'll give him points for being a starter and decent lategame, but there are better grass-types.
Tirtouga - Slow, but Solid Rock is amazing. Surprisingly good special attack combined with high attack makes it a good surf user. Soloed the Ice Gym and helped with the Flying Gym. Defensively, its a monster. It can take hits while you revive or heal your other Pokemon easily. Also, highly recommended with Quick Claw.
It's faults are pretty annoying ones, though. Rock Slide comes really late and that Special Defense isn't to great. The worst thing about Tirtouga is you either get it or Archen. Archen is pretty hard to pass up. High, would be top but Archen is just too damn good.
Elgyem - Special Attack is great, but very slow. Disappointing actually. Munna and Solosis are way better for a Psychic-type. Elgyem is too slow with too little benefit. It learns Charge Beam, but that's its only real advantage. Munna and Solosis are both bulkier, and Solosis can be immune to status damage thanks to Magic Guard. Lower Mid.
Blitzle - Surprised me, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Very fast and Shock Wave early is great. Flame Charge helped me out with the Bug Gym and Ice Gym. Evolves fairly early (compared to other mons in B/W) and LightningRod is a sweet bonus.
Problems? Well, its frail and its movepool is average. The worst thing is its pretty much useless past the final gym. Galvantula is helpful against the Elite Four and final battles. Zebstrika is...not. Mid, it's great midgame mon, but terrible lategame.
Sandile - Sandile is the best Dark-type in the game, hands down. Some might argue Scraggy, but Sandile is faster and evolves quicker. Great coverage between STABs alone. Crunch and Dig allows it to destroy most of the Electric Gym, but isn't useful against most of the other gyms. Krookodile destroys two of the Elite Four. The real great thing about Krookodile however is Moxie. Moxie is ridiculous ingame.
It's only downsides are that Earthquake comes late and it isn't exactly bulky. But that's pretty much it. Top tier.
Venipede - My MVP. The king. The god amongst insects. After it learns Poison Tail at level 19, it becomes amazing. It isn't too useful against any gyms, but it evolves into Scolipede at level 30. Then you can teach it Poison Jab, Bulldoze and X-Scissor via TM and Megahorn via Heart Scale. Megahorn at level 30 is devastating. Scolipede really shined lategame, where helped out three of the four Elite Four (swept one of them) and took out two thirds of the final battles team with Megahorn alone. Being immune to poisoning is always nice.
It's problems are few. It's weaker compared to Leavanny and Galvantula, but Megahorn is so powerful its hard to notice. It does have an awkward period of uselessness between Lenora and Burgh though if you picked Snivy. High tier. This bloke carried me much of the game.
Snivy - I was really hoping it would be better lol. Leaf Tornado has shit PP, Snivy has few moves outside of Grass ones till late in the game and its offenses are overall medicore. I felt like it was holding me back the entire game offensively. Not to mention there are better grass-types in the game.
However, Growth / Leaf Blade / Dragon Tail / Grass Knot was sweet endgame, and his tanking ability was helpful during the final fights. Servine pretty much soloed Clay's gym. Overall, I'd say Snivy is middle tier. I'll give him points for being a starter and decent lategame, but there are better grass-types.
Tirtouga - Slow, but Solid Rock is amazing. Surprisingly good special attack combined with high attack makes it a good surf user. Soloed the Ice Gym and helped with the Flying Gym. Defensively, its a monster. It can take hits while you revive or heal your other Pokemon easily. Also, highly recommended with Quick Claw.
It's faults are pretty annoying ones, though. Rock Slide comes really late and that Special Defense isn't to great. The worst thing about Tirtouga is you either get it or Archen. Archen is pretty hard to pass up. High, would be top but Archen is just too damn good.
Elgyem - Special Attack is great, but very slow. Disappointing actually. Munna and Solosis are way better for a Psychic-type. Elgyem is too slow with too little benefit. It learns Charge Beam, but that's its only real advantage. Munna and Solosis are both bulkier, and Solosis can be immune to status damage thanks to Magic Guard. Lower Mid.
Blitzle - Surprised me, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Very fast and Shock Wave early is great. Flame Charge helped me out with the Bug Gym and Ice Gym. Evolves fairly early (compared to other mons in B/W) and LightningRod is a sweet bonus.
Problems? Well, its frail and its movepool is average. The worst thing is its pretty much useless past the final gym. Galvantula is helpful against the Elite Four and final battles. Zebstrika is...not. Mid, it's great midgame mon, but terrible lategame.
Sandile - Sandile is the best Dark-type in the game, hands down. Some might argue Scraggy, but Sandile is faster and evolves quicker. Great coverage between STABs alone. Crunch and Dig allows it to destroy most of the Electric Gym, but isn't useful against most of the other gyms. Krookodile destroys two of the Elite Four. The real great thing about Krookodile however is Moxie. Moxie is ridiculous ingame.
It's only downsides are that Earthquake comes late and it isn't exactly bulky. But that's pretty much it. Top tier.
Venipede - My MVP. The king. The god amongst insects. After it learns Poison Tail at level 19, it becomes amazing. It isn't too useful against any gyms, but it evolves into Scolipede at level 30. Then you can teach it Poison Jab, Bulldoze and X-Scissor via TM and Megahorn via Heart Scale. Megahorn at level 30 is devastating. Scolipede really shined lategame, where helped out three of the four Elite Four (swept one of them) and took out two thirds of the final battles team with Megahorn alone. Being immune to poisoning is always nice.
It's problems are few. It's weaker compared to Leavanny and Galvantula, but Megahorn is so powerful its hard to notice. It does have an awkward period of uselessness between Lenora and Burgh though if you picked Snivy. High tier. This bloke carried me much of the game.
From my team I would suggest some poke's need boosting up the tiers.
1. Gurdurr, haven't trade evolved him yet and he kicked the Sandile family into the heart of the sun. He takes hits, he kills those who don't resist and his shell bell gives him a sort of leftovers for recovery. Early game access and monotype keeps things simple.
2. Cottonee, ive heard people saying that stalling doesnt work in game. Try telling that to cottonee. Paralyse then leech seed with added giga drain + big root. She may not have coverage but she has prankster. I'd say she isnt a worse choice than liligant in game, especially if you are playing white and you can get a modest version with boosted exp right near the start!
3. Trubbish, oddly this little guy is quite a tank. He can easily take neutral hits and laughs at the fact that barely any trainers this far have a ground type attack. He doesnt have a ridiculous wait until he evolves. Also black sludge is a very easily aquired item from wild garbodors, garbodors are a 20% encounter chance on route 9. 50% of garbodors carry black sludge. You could just catch a garbodor right there but I got trubbish early on unaware of this.
4. Emolga, If your going for a challenge, which you should be considering the game is quite easy, put down your archeops and pick up an emolga! It is very impractical in every way, but who cares! It looks so cool! (Archeops looks like a cross between a parrot and a snake)
1. Gurdurr, haven't trade evolved him yet and he kicked the Sandile family into the heart of the sun. He takes hits, he kills those who don't resist and his shell bell gives him a sort of leftovers for recovery. Early game access and monotype keeps things simple.
2. Cottonee, ive heard people saying that stalling doesnt work in game. Try telling that to cottonee. Paralyse then leech seed with added giga drain + big root. She may not have coverage but she has prankster. I'd say she isnt a worse choice than liligant in game, especially if you are playing white and you can get a modest version with boosted exp right near the start!
3. Trubbish, oddly this little guy is quite a tank. He can easily take neutral hits and laughs at the fact that barely any trainers this far have a ground type attack. He doesnt have a ridiculous wait until he evolves. Also black sludge is a very easily aquired item from wild garbodors, garbodors are a 20% encounter chance on route 9. 50% of garbodors carry black sludge. You could just catch a garbodor right there but I got trubbish early on unaware of this.
4. Emolga, If your going for a challenge, which you should be considering the game is quite easy, put down your archeops and pick up an emolga! It is very impractical in every way, but who cares! It looks so cool! (Archeops looks like a cross between a parrot and a snake)
I think you are understating Emolga's usefulness. While certainly not an all star, Electric / Flying is very good in-game coverage with the large number of Flying / Fighting / Grass / Bug / Water-type Pokémon. Despite its low base 75 Attack, Acrobatics gives it a base 195 attack after STAB. It can also use Thunder Wave / Electro Ball for a base 225 Electric attack or simply just go with Thunderbolt / Discharge. I used it in my last play through and it was surprisingly good.
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