^ Sure, it is obtained only a bit after Joltik (I'm talking about Litwick here) but it has to go through practically 10 levels of sheer grinding, and not accomplishing anything useful like beating trainers and a gym (which Joltik uses to train) And at the end? For Lampent, a slightly boosted stats version with just as mediocre a moveset. For Galvantula, a much faster, much more powerful version with near access to a 180 power, 91 accuracy attack, also able of utilising its dual STAB, and boosting with Charge Beam. In this way does Chandelure not justify itself; you can't just grind it to make it useful.
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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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Well, Litwick can have half the time shoved off by chipping in against Icirrus Gym...
I used the 7th Gym to train my Litwick as he murdered everything with Flame Burst. I then used the Dusk Stone once it evolved into Lampent and taught it Fire Blast which murders everything with its huge SpA. Chandelure should be at least Mid Tier. It's a bit tough to train, but it murders. It's also pretty good against Caitlin and it can easily take out 3 of Shauntal's mons.
The whole point of using Emboar is keeping Nitro Charge...
Use Arm Thrust then Brick Break.
This.
Flame Charge once or twice before trying to sweep, or you won't last the whole fight. Emboar's got a crapton of HP, but he loses a lot of it because of his low defenses and varied weaknesses. I used Flamethrower/Grass Knot/Brick Break/Flame Charge when I beat the main story, and my Emboar was awesomesauce.
Though Emboar can outrun a few things without Flame Charge. Mine outran a Bouffalant three levels higher during the final battles.
Mincinno actually is useful O.o
If you go through the pain of getting one with technician, and get two heart scales to teach it rock blast and bullet seed, it can actually cause a lot of damage. The main thing is it is really pretty speedy. From the flying gym (where it can finally learn the good moves) to most of the e4 its pretty useful. (Was useless during boss battle minus using sing :D)
If you go through the pain of getting one with technician, and get two heart scales to teach it rock blast and bullet seed, it can actually cause a lot of damage. The main thing is it is really pretty speedy. From the flying gym (where it can finally learn the good moves) to most of the e4 its pretty useful. (Was useless during boss battle minus using sing :D)
I didn't really feel like I was missing Bullet Seed, personally (possibly because I had Galvantula to deal with waters). And why did you think it was useless during the boss battles? Mine OHKO'd every single one of N's Pokémon except for Reshiram (which went down in two), and took down a couple of Ghetsis's as well.
My apologies, I was giving a rough estimate. The actual stats would be a slightly higher.
I agree that it should be mid or low-mid (should it be made) as there are better options, it has a shallow movepool and it really only has good defensive stats to ditinguish itself. I still think Klang is better, if anyone decides to get one.
Litwick also is invulnerable to Audino's attacks bar Attract SOMETIMES, so it can level up quick and easily.
Anything can be good through Audino grinding.
Them Audinos are the toughest things since tough things. What with they're Doubleslap and all coming off of base 60 Attack, they're a real threat to errant Pokemon Trainers grinding their Pokemon. I never go into shaking grass any more - my Pokemon always come out half-dead.
RUGGED HELMET
I'd like to push for Cobalion to be moved to High tier.
Once you get Surf (shortly after the 6th gym), you can go find it in a cave (easily accessible) one route away from Mistralton City/Driftveil City (iirc closer to Driftveil). Cobalion is at Lvl 42, which should be just above your team's levels by that point, meaning it needs zero grinding. It has great stats and typing, giving it a ton of useful resists, but Cobalion mainly shines in the last few major battles. The Ice and Dragon gyms are easily soloed without any effort, but the real fun comes at Level 49, where it learns Swords Dance (With liberal use of the Lucky Egg, it should have it before the 8th leader). Just relying on its STABs, it can solo the Dark E4, N (except for his Reshiram in White, you can set up on Klinklang or Carracosta) AND even Ghetsis. (Cofagrigus is easy set-up fodder.) YEah yeah, I know he comes somewhat late, but that's alright. Usually, going through the game with 3 or 4 guys is most efficient for experience, with some of the great late-game Pokemon obtained later.
Cobalion is just as good if not better than many of the early game High Pokemon, the fact it comes just a touch late shouldn't have an impact. I really think it deserves High.
Once you get Surf (shortly after the 6th gym), you can go find it in a cave (easily accessible) one route away from Mistralton City/Driftveil City (iirc closer to Driftveil). Cobalion is at Lvl 42, which should be just above your team's levels by that point, meaning it needs zero grinding. It has great stats and typing, giving it a ton of useful resists, but Cobalion mainly shines in the last few major battles. The Ice and Dragon gyms are easily soloed without any effort, but the real fun comes at Level 49, where it learns Swords Dance (With liberal use of the Lucky Egg, it should have it before the 8th leader). Just relying on its STABs, it can solo the Dark E4, N (except for his Reshiram in White, you can set up on Klinklang or Carracosta) AND even Ghetsis. (Cofagrigus is easy set-up fodder.) YEah yeah, I know he comes somewhat late, but that's alright. Usually, going through the game with 3 or 4 guys is most efficient for experience, with some of the great late-game Pokemon obtained later.
Cobalion is just as good if not better than many of the early game High Pokemon, the fact it comes just a touch late shouldn't have an impact. I really think it deserves High.
Although I'm not saying that it's bad in any sense, no matter how much it rapes everything else, it still goes down in rank due to its lateness of obtaining. High Mid would be good IMO.
The main issue is that it only exists as a level 1 Larvesta pre-elite four. I hope to god you're not trying to evolve it from there....
After playing through Black, I'd like to review the Pokemon I used.
Oshawatt - Amazing, just monstrous, kills so much early on and is easy to use throughout. High Tier
Lillipup - Good early on, becomes kind of useless after ~6th gym. Crunch helps for the psychic E4, though, and it and Krookodile's intimidate helped wear down the Mienshao's attack stat on the fighting type E4. Mid-High Tier
Timburr (No Conkeldurr) - Really helpful until ice gym, wrecks everything with Wake Up Slap/Retaliate/Rock move/Chip Away. Boxed it during the Relic Castle part of the game. Mid-High Tier
Pansear - It came in handy against the rival with just Incinerate, even when his Serperior was level 20~. Boxed in the big city place before route 4, never really used it but it sucked outside of hitting Grass types. Low-Mid Tier
Blitzle - It was really frail but fast, didn't get a good electric move for a while, Shock Wave was weak and Volt Change made it switch out. Boxed it around Chargestone Cave. Medium Tier
Darumaka - Perfect fire type, everything about it is so great. Fighting/Fire/Normal just wrecks. Flare Blitz is so good and Fire Punch usually OHKO's most things anyways. High Tier
Joltik - Never got the Thunder/T-Bolt TM so I stuck with Electro Ball/Volt Change for electric type move, it outsped everything and usually did a huge amount of damage with Electro Ball. Just asked to be used after it got Signal Beam. High Tier
Vanillite - SO GOOD, not even joking, it singlehandedly destroys the 8th gym with JUST Ice Beam/Frost Breath, it didn't even die against the gym leader. Need a bit of grinding and it evolves a bit late, but it's well worth it. High-er Tier
Krokorok - Replaced Gurdurr on my team, it was really good. I stupidly replaced Crunch for Foul Play because I thought it was 95 BP+BP from attack power. I don't know what I was thinking. High Tier
Yeah, I still think Vanillite is the greatest thing since the ice cream scooper. *derp*
Oshawatt - Amazing, just monstrous, kills so much early on and is easy to use throughout. High Tier
Lillipup - Good early on, becomes kind of useless after ~6th gym. Crunch helps for the psychic E4, though, and it and Krookodile's intimidate helped wear down the Mienshao's attack stat on the fighting type E4. Mid-High Tier
Timburr (No Conkeldurr) - Really helpful until ice gym, wrecks everything with Wake Up Slap/Retaliate/Rock move/Chip Away. Boxed it during the Relic Castle part of the game. Mid-High Tier
Pansear - It came in handy against the rival with just Incinerate, even when his Serperior was level 20~. Boxed in the big city place before route 4, never really used it but it sucked outside of hitting Grass types. Low-Mid Tier
Blitzle - It was really frail but fast, didn't get a good electric move for a while, Shock Wave was weak and Volt Change made it switch out. Boxed it around Chargestone Cave. Medium Tier
Darumaka - Perfect fire type, everything about it is so great. Fighting/Fire/Normal just wrecks. Flare Blitz is so good and Fire Punch usually OHKO's most things anyways. High Tier
Joltik - Never got the Thunder/T-Bolt TM so I stuck with Electro Ball/Volt Change for electric type move, it outsped everything and usually did a huge amount of damage with Electro Ball. Just asked to be used after it got Signal Beam. High Tier
Vanillite - SO GOOD, not even joking, it singlehandedly destroys the 8th gym with JUST Ice Beam/Frost Breath, it didn't even die against the gym leader. Need a bit of grinding and it evolves a bit late, but it's well worth it. High-er Tier
Krokorok - Replaced Gurdurr on my team, it was really good. I stupidly replaced Crunch for Foul Play because I thought it was 95 BP+BP from attack power. I don't know what I was thinking. High Tier
Yeah, I still think Vanillite is the greatest thing since the ice cream scooper. *derp*
No, because post game is pretty much:
Pokeshift your own Gen 4 lv 100 pokemon over, or own with Kyurem and Volcarona.
(plus Volcarona can only be received as a LV 1 egg pre-E4, Larvesta is all the way down there sucking in shit tier with Deino.)
Larvesta is in the list. It's shit-tier because it evolves at such a high level and you get it at level 1 late in the game. Post-game isn't considered in the tiering.
Yeah, it takes fucking forever to level, and I`m doing this post-game.
Post-game is surprisingly difficult, specifically a Veteran in Challengers Cave who instructed me in how my team of Gyarados, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Milotic (all caught in-game, and somewhat underlevelled bar Milotic) was utterly destroyed by Gigalith after Sandstream was activated.
Post-game is surprisingly difficult, specifically a Veteran in Challengers Cave who instructed me in how my team of Gyarados, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Milotic (all caught in-game, and somewhat underlevelled bar Milotic) was utterly destroyed by Gigalith after Sandstream was activated.
I'd place Drilbur over Sandile for Top. I've been playing through with a Sandile(and evolutions) as a standard part of my team and I gotta say, I'm fairly disappointed. Its typing and defenses leave it to take heavy damage and is often KO'd. His evolution times are poor as well, and his performances will be lacking often, especially when nearing its next evolution level. On the offensive side, he's a bit disappointing as well, not being able to OHKO certain threats when he should. With that being said, Drilbur should go above Sandile, for earlier access to its final form, better defensive typing, and better offenses.
Drillbur has a far worse start. It starts off with lol Mud-Slap and Fury Swipes, both awful attacks. A few levels gets it Metal Claw, but this isn't STAB yet so it really doesn't stand out at all. Drillbur actually doesn't get anything resembling good offense until Lvl 19. Sandile at least starts with a 50 BP STAB attack when you get it. Plus Moxie gives Sandile far better sweeping potential then Drillbur.
W/e though, since for now I think we want to get characters in one of the three tiers so we can more easily sort them.
Yesssssss
And it didn't even need that much grinding, for me. I never used Frost Breath, though, since Icy Wind helped ensure KOs a lot thanks to the speed drop.
Joke or not, nature power really makes them a pain in the ass.
My pokemon always seem to fall asleep, then round after round of immobilisation because of love. Aargh!
Much better once they learn heal beam. And the annoying refresh is gone from their moveset, so poison, burn, leech seed... will eventually wear em down :p
Maybe you should have grabbed Metagross instead of Tyranitar...?
(remembers how Metang is a bitch to catch)
(takes everything back)
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