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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
- Thread starter reachzero
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While I am completely aghast that Brightpowder was banned, I have high hopes for this next vote. Here's hoping nobody gets banned. I don't think the meta has had enough time to adjust to the increase of blaziken and Thundurus, but I'm sure they will serve a role in the future metagame for Black and White, and a role that is not broken.
steels are prominent because dragons exist and no one wants to get swept by outraging garchomp
and honestly for all the hate on hail its not bad
Kyurem is pretty beastly
and who can beat vanilluxe?... jk
and boosted blizzard is very helpful this gen with all the ground grass and dragons
looks like rain stays for another round. While I don't agree and think rain is broken, I would like to see how it all goes down. Usage stats are finally out so we should wait until that comes out to start deciding whats really broken. That said I truly truly truly hope that latios gets banned this time around.
Hail just isn't as common as weathers because its not as interesting and the teams are harder to build. Not many people are familiar with Hail because I saw about (3?) good rmts that featured hail last gen while there were tons of SS teams. Since its always been the unpopular weather and all of the big abusers of the other weathers are jaw droppingly good its the outliar here.
Its cool that you are disrupting the other weather 90% of the time and ScarfAboma can outrun all of the weather sweepers. I also hear about random users of the actual move Hail a lot so im trying to fit that into my team, thing is, its impossible for me to even check all these weather sweepers along with all of the other threats. Maybe when Dream World Ditto is released this will be possible but for now I am having massive trouble with the Blaziken, Volcarona, and Venusaur of sun teams and the new Adamant Life Orb Excadrill. Not to mention stupidly powerful stuff like Rotom-W in the rain.
Edit- I wanna throw in my two cents on Latios too. Compared to the new and/or improved offensive pokemon, I like that this thing at least has counters, not to mention they're all OU pokemon (well Ho-Oh does well but thats not the point). In the rain, you use Ferrothorn, Escavalier, and Scizor/Metagross to an extent. Sandstorm and hail have Empoleon to deal with it. Any team can use Tyranitar or Chansey/Blissey to wall it if they need to. I also like how it helps keep the musketeers from getting to dominant. It is annoying pokemon I will admit, but thats what top tier pokes do.
Its cool that you are disrupting the other weather 90% of the time and ScarfAboma can outrun all of the weather sweepers. I also hear about random users of the actual move Hail a lot so im trying to fit that into my team, thing is, its impossible for me to even check all these weather sweepers along with all of the other threats. Maybe when Dream World Ditto is released this will be possible but for now I am having massive trouble with the Blaziken, Volcarona, and Venusaur of sun teams and the new Adamant Life Orb Excadrill. Not to mention stupidly powerful stuff like Rotom-W in the rain.
Edit- I wanna throw in my two cents on Latios too. Compared to the new and/or improved offensive pokemon, I like that this thing at least has counters, not to mention they're all OU pokemon (well Ho-Oh does well but thats not the point). In the rain, you use Ferrothorn, Escavalier, and Scizor/Metagross to an extent. Sandstorm and hail have Empoleon to deal with it. Any team can use Tyranitar or Chansey/Blissey to wall it if they need to. I also like how it helps keep the musketeers from getting to dominant. It is annoying pokemon I will admit, but thats what top tier pokes do.
Oh that is incredibly hilarious. You're already rolling dice. Every single attack in Pokemon has a 1/16 chance of critting. Many common moves have a chance of inflicting status. 85-95% accurate moves are commonly used.
But apparently, in spite of all this, Smogon has decided that sacrificing your precious item slot for an 10% chance of missing, which practice has shown to be a clearly inferior decision, is ban worthy. Yes, I'm aghast. Apparently Smogon has decided to give into its scrub urges and ban something purely becase "well, we don't like it".
While we're at it, let's ban quick claw, focus band, scope lens, razor fang, King's Rock, and maybe Starf and Lansat berry. Perhaps we should implement the hax items clause that people (once) rightfully thought was idiotic.
If you want that go ahead and ban Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, Acupressure, Serene Grace, Confuse Ray, Swagger, anything with a secondary effect chance, paralyze, crits, the random number generator, sleep, freeze, Poison Point, Static, Cute Charm, Attract, Effect Spore, Flame Body, Flinching, Super Luck, and every move in the game without perfect accuracy. Or just go ahead and find a different game to play, BECAUSE POKEMON WILL ALWAYS HAVE LUCK!
It's not fun outplaying your opponent in everyway possible, then losing because of sand veil+brightpowder misses 3 times in a row and they have a +4 chomp with a sub and you lose. Nobody is saying ban moves like confuse ray and swagger because their not game changing, you can switch out and your confusion is gone. You can't reverse a miss on a garchomp though, which ends games. I had no hesitation in banning brightpowder, and to be honest, i would ban sand veil any day of the week if given the oppurtunity.
*edit*
are these checkmarks the ones for round 3?
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*edit*
are these checkmarks the ones for round 3?
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If I choose Hydro Pump over surf, then that is because I want more power. If I choose to use Thunder over Thunderbolt, then I do that because I want more power, not because it has a 20% more chance to paralyse. But if I choose Brightpowder over any other item, then I'm choosing it because I want to actively increase the luck in the game. That's why a ban of Brightpowder is justified, and as I've written before it's analogous to why we ban DT/Minimise.
Since when has banning been purely objective? If it was then there would be no need to vote and we could simply agree whether something objectively is broken based on whatever criteria we chose.
Doubled Speed is not inherently broken. At the current stage, only three Pokemon have ever been observed to be broken with a weather-based boost of x2 Speed through their ability: Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Kabutops. There is no reason for any ban or restriction related to such an ability to apply to any Pokemon beyond those three, let alone anything without Swift Swim.
Nothing becomes broken with Sand Veil, just like how nothing becomes broken with Brightpowder or Lax Incense.
However, anything with an activated Sand Veil or Snow Cloak ability is uncompetitive. That is the issue here.
I'm sorry, some of us actually play the game instead of armchair-qb Pokemon policy. Nobody likes being haxed out by Sand veil + BrightPowder Garchomp, and don't tell me "its normal" because collectively Garchomp receives a 28% evasion boost from that item + ability (100% accurate moves now have 72% vs Garchomp and other Sand Veil users.) Sure, Sand veil contributed to most of that evasion boost, but BrightPowder wasn't helping the slightest. Banning it was a step in the right direction imo. BrightPowder doesn't have any positive effects on the metagame, it just increases the luck factor in standard battle.
BrightPowder/LaxIncense got banned, deal with it. If you hate the ban so much, get off your ass and de-nominate it or something instead of criticizing the decision of other players.
I believe the Smogcast even addressed this.
Technically speaking if you want to do evasion abuse with Sand Veil, using Lefties is just plain better, gives you more subs, the extra 8% is beaten out by the extra subs. Basically there was no reason to use either item because it only made evasion abuse WORSE for the Pokemon.
We basically banned a completely useless item, so what's the big deal?
Technically speaking if you want to do evasion abuse with Sand Veil, using Lefties is just plain better, gives you more subs, the extra 8% is beaten out by the extra subs. Basically there was no reason to use either item because it only made evasion abuse WORSE for the Pokemon.
We basically banned a completely useless item, so what's the big deal?
^B-Lulz: I dont think its a matter of if brightpowder is broken, but instead its general use to the meta.
Because Drizzle has been decided by the majority to not be over broken, affects an entire meta, and is an entire play style.
While on the other hand, although not broken, Bightpowder is just an annoying item that is useless that makes no sense to keep. It just (if anything) has a worthless negative effect on the meta, so it didn't matter if its gone.
Because Drizzle has been decided by the majority to not be over broken, affects an entire meta, and is an entire play style.
While on the other hand, although not broken, Bightpowder is just an annoying item that is useless that makes no sense to keep. It just (if anything) has a worthless negative effect on the meta, so it didn't matter if its gone.
For all the ragers about Brightpowder there is alreadt a thread that adresses this. Brightpowder was never broken it simply violated evasion clause and thus was banned.
this. Garcomp abusing Evasion is better off with Lefties anyway.
The "big deal" is why we have wasted all this effort to achieve absolutely nothing.
How so? We came to the conclusion that the only thing worth banning was bright powder? Thats a waste of effort? Did we not go through all this time TESTING? Did we not decide that rain/drought was not ban worthy, and come up with all the other ideas for suspects and etc?
We don't NEED to ban something to make a suspect round or a voting round not be a waste of effort. That sounds like we need to ban something to make what we did even worth it. And technically, what did we waste? Some time on a forum in which we nominated bright powder and voted for it? Because nothing else stood out as an immediate threat?
No. We didn't waste a damn thing. We discussed, we nominated, we concluded. We didn't waste time choosing bright powder. We just simply concluded that it was the only thing unfit for the meta in that voting round. And, for all that it matters, I would rather have THAT then spend an entire voting round banning a BUNCH of things due to a bad meta.
I'm curious how the auto-weather (namely Drizzle) wasn't considered ban-worthy.
People tested it and decided it wasn't broken. I'm curious as to why you think it is broken. After all, the banners have to prove something is broken, not the other way around.
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