In-Game Tier List Discussion

[Lou Cypher]

Liepard isnt even THAT fast at 106...
Even so, Emboar lacks:
- Solid Fighting STAB (Yay Hammer Arm...Arm Thrust...lol brick break?)
- SOLID coverage moves that don't hurt him (Yay Wild Bolt? Head Smash)
- The SP ATK stat to make use of his special movepool (Which mostly consists of not too highly powered attacks anyway)

Yeah...

 

[R_N]

Hammer Arm could be worse. 100 base, 90% accuracy. Doesn't really mesh with Nitro Charge, though.

Guy could really use Fire Punch

 

[TheSuperCacturne]

Sooo... I've looked at Sandile quite closely, and I've noticed that to be quite frank, it's nowhere near the level of hype people are pushing it towards. Here's a lovely list of problems for you to look at:

It comes before the 3rd gym. Now this isn't necessarily bad, but for high tier ingame Pokes, just before Gym #3 is actually pretty damn late. Not to mention, it's WORTHLESS at the Gym anyways since Bug is SE against Dark and a lot of the trainers there use Sewaddles and Swadloons which can own it with their Razor Leafs and Bug Bites, meaning the only real experience they can get at that period is by EXP Share. EXP Sharing something as soon as you get it doesn't sound much like High Tier to me!

It's level up moves when you get it, quite frankly, suck ass. OK, so you get Bite to use as STAB, what else does it get? Torment and Sand Attack which don't do damage and LOL Sand Tomb and Mud Slap for ground STAB. That is quite frankly PATHETIC, and the worst part is that Sandile doesn't even get passable Ground STAB until Level 31, which is a LONG time. This compounds with the above issue to make Sandile really frustrating to train against anything which isn't Psychic type, and they don't come in until Nimbasa.

It's stats in general suck as well. Sandile has kinda decent attack once you get it, but its Defences are piss poor and it can get easily killed by even neutral hitting attacks. Krokorok isn't that much of an improvement Defence wise. See where I'm going here? At least Darumaka, Archen and stuff have the power and the speed to make their lack of Defence not much of an issue, but when Sandiles/Krokoroks best stat is "kinda decent" all the way until Level 40, then you've got a problem. Its typing also gives it a fuckton of common weaknesses to Water, Grass, Fighting and Bug, which at the time Sandile comes and even later on are very common ingame.

Even when you finally get Sandile to Krookodile, it's kinda iffy in many of the boss battles. Brycen has SE moves, Drayden/Iris can simply Dragon Tail you out, Shauntals Cofagrigus prevents you from doing your beloved Moxie sweep which is so hyped in this thread, as does Jellicents Will O Wisp, Caitlins Reuniclus can sometimes survive Crunch/Foul Play and OHKO with Focus Blast (although if she misses or you OHKO then you're ok), Grimsley can own you with Scrafty (although he's otherwise easy), and Marshall... No comment whatsoever. Even in the battles which Krooko is meant to be good in, theres always something which might kill him off. This isn't helped by the fact that it learns EQ at level 54 and this has to be grinded up to use it.

So... does Moxie really make up for all of these glaring problems?

tl:dr: Move Sandile down to Mid. One ability can't make up for all the shit you have to do to make it decent as well as the time it's helpless for.

 

[Acosta]

It's level up moves when you get it, quite frankly, suck ass. OK, so you get Bite to use as STAB, what else does it get? Torment and Sand Attack which don't do damage and LOL Sand Tomb and Mud Slap for ground STAB. That is quite frankly PATHETIC, and the worst part is that Sandile doesn't even get passable Ground STAB until Level 31, which is a LONG time. This compounds with the above issue to make Sandile really frustrating to train against anything which isn't Psychic type, and they don't come in until Nimbasa.

You get the Dig TM on the same Route you first encounter Sandile.

Other than that though, I see where you're coming from. I haven't finished the game yet, in Driftveil City, and I haven't really been all that impressed with it so far. It's probably been the hardest Pokemon to raise out of the seven or so I've used.

I'm hoping it'll pick up a little once it evolves, but I'm not sure.

 

[UnhandledException]

Ok, few things

Sandile is technically after the 3rd gym, as you are supposed to go to route 4 after doing your stuff in Castelia(at least thats what I do anyway). Even then the fact that it can't perform well at ONE gym does nothing to prove that Sandile is worse off(the ice gym fails against moxie Krok).

About its defenses, note that there's a guy in Castelia itself that gives you the eviolite. Eviolite boosted defenses are not bad at all.

Movepool, you get the TM for Dig on Route 4 itself, so you can just catch a Sandile and teach it Dig. At 80 bp I'd call it a passable move for in-game purposes.

Stats, idk I found those pretty awesome along with Moxie and Eviolite. Maybe you just had one with suckish ivs and nature.

And the last para is lol, you basically solo 3 of the e4 with moxie sandile. Cofagrigus prevents your moxie sweep? np I didn't even need it in the first place when I've got an 80 bp STAB move which is se on every pokemon he's got...

 

[Ninja_13]

Ok, few things

Sandile is technically after the 3rd gym, as you are supposed to go to route 4 after doing your stuff in Castelia(at least thats what I do anyway). Even then the fact that it can't perform well at ONE gym does nothing to prove that Sandile is worse off(the ice gym fails against moxie Krok).

About its defenses, note that there's a guy in Castelia itself that gives you the eviolite. Eviolite boosted defenses are not bad at all.

Movepool, you get the TM for Dig on Route 4 itself, so you can just catch a Sandile and teach it Dig. At 80 bp I'd call it a passable move for in-game purposes.

Stats, idk I found those pretty awesome along with Moxie and Eviolite. Maybe you just had one with suckish ivs and nature.

And the last para is lol, you basically solo 3 of the e4 with moxie sandile. Cofagrigus prevents your moxie sweep? np I didn't even need it in the first place when I've got an 80 bp STAB move which is se on every pokemon he's got...

To add to this, he may suck against the 3rd gym, but like every other Ground-type in these games, with the Eviolite he solo's the 4th. During an attempted Nuzlocke, I used a Eviolite SANDILE (to try and get Earthquake early) and worked wonders for me, even with Intimidate and a neutral nature. I only lost it to a Celestial Tower Emonga I got Evasion/RockTomb-haxed by.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Ok, few things

Sandile is technically after the 3rd gym, as you are supposed to go to route 4 after doing your stuff in Castelia(at least thats what I do anyway). Even then the fact that it can't perform well at ONE gym does nothing to prove that Sandile is worse off(the ice gym fails against moxie Krok).

No. Sandile is before the 3rd gym, there is still an area of Route 4 accessible to you, that is why Darumaka is so friggin good, you get it just before the 3rd gym(its common too, unlike a certain Pokemon *cough*SIGILYPH*cough*), and Darumaka simply eats the gym for breakfast. Sandile doesn't, he loses his first heavy training opportunity thanks to shit typing. :/

About its defenses, note that there's a guy in Castelia itself that gives you the eviolite. Eviolite boosted defenses are not bad at all.

Then again, I could give Eviolite to my starter(Servine, Pignite or Dewott), or even Darumaka. Any unevolved dude can just have Eviolite and call it a day bro.

Movepool, you get the TM for Dig on Route 4 itself, so you can just catch a Sandile and teach it Dig. At 80 bp I'd call it a passable move for in-game purposes.

Drilbur can use Dig too. Also Dig is relatively bullshit against Nimbasa Gym, which is full of Emolgas.

Stats, idk I found those pretty awesome along with Moxie and Eviolite. Maybe you just had one with suckish ivs and nature.

The same logic can be applied here and that you had one with godly IVs and nature. :/

And the last para is lol, you basically solo 3 of the e4 with moxie sandile. Cofagrigus prevents your moxie sweep? np I didn't even need it in the first place when I've got an 80 bp STAB move which is se on every pokemon he's got...

Did you happen to misspell Scraggy? Also burn cuts your Attack, Sandile is physical-based, your damage is also cut. :/ Scraggy has Shed Skin anyway so he can shrug of burn while setting up at the same time with Work/Bulk Up.

Also Darumaka can just hold the Eviolite as well. No longer 2HKO'd by Volt Switch while he 2HKO's everything with Fire Punch. You really need to justify how Sandile > Darumaka, Scraggy or Sigilyph.

I have only used Sandile once, and that was to have 2 Sandiles spam Intimidate and Sand Attack on Elesa's Emolgas such that Darumaka can safely 2HKO'd them. Zebstrika was OHKO'd by Throh anyway, so IDC.

 

[IcyMan28]

I actually didn't really find Emboar to be that slow, as it outsped plenty of things on its own and mine is merely Naughty (I didn't EV train or anything like that, just played the game as is).

As for the fighting STAB, Hammer Arm is adequate in my experience, while you don't really need a strong physical fire attack when you have Fire Blast coming off a perfectly useable base 100 SpA (only 4 points lower than Infernape, and no one complained about him).

Fire Blast / Hammer Arm / Wild Charge / Rock Slide is all the coverage you need, and there are lesser options like Scald or Grass Knot if you need them.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

I could've sworn Infernape had 108 SpA...

Anyway well, it doesn't get Close Combat, but Hammer Arm is a great alternative. I somehow missed Wild Charge pre-E4(didn't bother looking around, heh), so I just used Scald/Hammer Arm/Heat Stamp/Grass Knot. Worked surprisingly ok.

 

[Chieliee]

Yamask to Mid.

He appears before the 3rd gym, has great bulk, and useful Sp.A. I know most bulky pokes are bad in-game, but this one is certainly the best of them.

 

[Shotoetoe]

Yamask to Mid.

He appears before the 4th gym, has great bulk, and useful Sp.A. I know most bulky pokes are bad in-game, but this one is certainly the best of them.

You can't access resort desert until you beat the 3th gym.
I also want to add that if Yamask becomes mid tier, Pidove should most definitely be mid tier.

 

[Gneiss is nice]

Ok, few things

Sandile is technically after the 3rd gym, as you are supposed to go to route 4 after doing your stuff in Castelia(at least thats what I do anyway). Even then the fact that it can't perform well at ONE gym does nothing to prove that Sandile is worse off(the ice gym fails against moxie Krok).

About its defenses, note that there's a guy in Castelia itself that gives you the eviolite. Eviolite boosted defenses are not bad at all.

Movepool, you get the TM for Dig on Route 4 itself, so you can just catch a Sandile and teach it Dig. At 80 bp I'd call it a passable move for in-game purposes.

Stats, idk I found those pretty awesome along with Moxie and Eviolite. Maybe you just had one with suckish ivs and nature.

And the last para is lol, you basically solo 3 of the e4 with moxie sandile. Cofagrigus prevents your moxie sweep? np I didn't even need it in the first place when I've got an 80 bp STAB move which is se on every pokemon he's got...

And once you get Bulldoze from the 5th gym, you tear stuff apart.

Krookodile was one of my best pokemon by the end of the game, he was ridiculously useful. I didn't have Moxie, I had Intimidate, and I still managed to do quite well with him.

 

[Chieliee]

You can't access resort desert until you beat the 3th gym.
I also want to add that if Yamask becomes mid tier, Pidove should most definitely be mid tier.

was doubting that. I knew you could acces the desert before Burgh, but i was not sure if you could also do the resort desert

 

[Mekkah]

Also burn cuts your Attack, Sandile is physical-based, your damage is also cut. :

This generally isn't a big deal since you can just Full Heal or Rawst Berry or whatever. It takes turns but you shouldn't have to deal with halved attack.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

This generally isn't a big deal since you can just Full Heal or Rawst Berry or whatever. It takes turns but you shouldn't have to deal with halved attack.

Scrafty doesn't have to waste time healing with Shed Skin though.

Scrafty > Krookodile in terms of efficiency against Shauntal.

 

[UnhandledException]

No. Sandile is before the 3rd gym, there is still an area of Route 4 accessible to you, that is why Darumaka is so friggin good, you get it just before the 3rd gym(its common too, unlike a certain Pokemon *cough*SIGILYPH*cough*), and Darumaka simply eats the gym for breakfast. Sandile doesn't, he loses his first heavy training opportunity thanks to shit typing. :/

...
Ok putting that bit about availability aside, I have absolutely no idea how Sandile loses out on 'his first heavy training opportunity thanks to shit typing". You just don't use him at the gym. There's a lot of trainers for you to battle in Castelia itself in those two buildings, plus you have the resort desert and most of route 4. Then you have the next gym which is also quite easy to beat using just sandile(and some paralyze heals >.>). Seriously at that point in the game anything with halfway-decent stats has more than enough training opportunities.

Then again, I could give Eviolite to my starter(Servine, Pignite or Dewott), or even Darumaka. Any unevolved dude can just have Eviolite and call it a day bro.

Um, ok? if you read the earlier posts you'd know that I was responding to the notion that Sandile has suckish defenses which just doesn't apply to anything at that stage.

Drilbur can use Dig too. Also Dig is relatively bullshit against Nimbasa Gym, which is full of Emolgas.

Irrelevant, Sandile still solos that gym, with Bite alone(or Rock Tomb). So does Drillbur, but that has nothing to do with Sandile's tiering.

Again, that bit about Dig was responding to the earlier post which said Sandile didn't have Ground STAB to use untill very late in the game.

Did you happen to misspell Scraggy? Also burn cuts your Attack, Sandile is physical-based, your damage is also cut. :/ Scraggy has Shed Skin anyway so he can shrug of burn while setting up at the same time with Work/Bulk Up.

I didn't misspell Scraggy, just wrote in Sandile instead of Krok. And why should you care about status in-game? You can just use a berry or burn heal or something.

I would just like to say that based on my multiple in-game runs I've found Sandile to be very good pokemon to use and deserving of High tier. How Scraggy or Darumaka performs in the game is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Vladimir]

lolwut? Would you actually rely on Shed Skin's 30% chance to heal a burn instead of using a Rawst Berry? Even worse, would you ignore Moxie just to have a 30% chance to heal a burn? Scrafty is much worse than Krocodile against Shauntal, since he doesn't outspeed Chandelure and has worse attack.

Scraggy is outclassed by Sandile as a Dark-type. Scraggy cannot deal with the second most common Psychic-type in the game, Sigilyph, which Sandile takes on easily. Not only is it slow, it's not particularly bulky to justify that speed - it might lose battles only due to its vulnerability to status, especially confusion, whereas Sandile could have just KOed b4 the opp even moved. Scrafty has to rely on Hjk to deal any significant damage, meaning the player has a 10% chance to lose any matchup, while Krokodile has much higher attack, meaning his Crunch is enough to do the job against the opponents Scrafty needs Hjk to KO.

The fact that Sandile is worse than Drilbur or Darumaka doesn't mean he isn't high tier.

 

[kenney852]

I just reached Castelia City and so far my team is Servine, Drilbur, and Munna. My planned team up to this point was the final evolutions of those three, Haxorus, Carracosta, and Swanna. Now with all the negative talk about Swanna, I'm beginning to reconsider. I'm playing Black with access to trading and Pokemon from White, and the two I'm thinking about replacing Swanna with are Zoroark and Mienshao. Does anyone have any advice regarding what I should do. I'm definitely keeping the first three Pokemon I mentiones, and probably Haxorus and Carracosta, but any opinion would be nice.

And these are the Pokemon I definitely won't use after playing with them in previous playthroughs:

Samurott
Lilligant
Scrafty
Reuniclus
Galvantula
Braviary
Emboar
Cinccino
Jellicent
Scolipede
Sigilyph
Krookodile

Edit: Alternatively I could just use a rotating party of 8 like some people have suggested. That might work if I really grind.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

I just reached Castelia City and so far my team is Servine, Drilbur, and Munna. My planned team up to this point was the final evolutions of those three, Haxorus, Carracosta, and Swanna. Now with all the negative talk about Swanna, I'm beginning to reconsider. I'm playing Black with access to trading and Pokemon from White, and the two I'm thinking about replacing Swanna with are Zoroark and Mienshao. Does anyone have any advice regarding what I should do. I'm definitely keeping the first three Pokemon I mentiones, and probably Haxorus and Carracosta, but any opinion would be nice.

And these are the Pokemon I definitely won't use after playing with them in previous playthroughs:

Samurott
Lilligant
Scrafty
Reuniclus
Galvantula
Braviary
Emboar
Cinccino
Jellicent
Scolipede
Sigilyph
Krookodile

Edit: Alternatively I could just use a rotating party of 8 like some people have suggested. That might work if I really grind.

IMO Durant could possibly work, or else use Darumaka.

 

[Universal Berry]

OK, i finished the WHOLE walkthrough (post game also) and i feel like giving my opinion.

Very useful early to mid-game as an Oshawott and Dewott, but late-game loses a lot of its usefulness. Too slow to outspeed the IMPORTANT things, too frail to take the hits it would need to take, and to weak to have the KOs it should have. He's like trying to do too much things at a time and he fails by just a little bit in every domain. Mid-High

Very useful at first when you catch it (you can have it just before the Bug Gym which is helpful), easy to train and has great power, great early STAB move in Fire Punch and great STAB move later on with Flare Blitz. Outspeeds many things and have access to many coverage moves like Bulldoze. Flare Blitz recoil can be annoying sometimes.High

Since I caught it just before th electric gym, it was easy to train. Good early STAB move as well as early evolution (which comes with an awesome steel typing) are godsends. It could outspeed many things and OHKO them easily. What i found out is that it had problem with the Elite four, but for every other battle it was great. High

Two words. Fucking. Godsend. Acrobatics is just awesome. Defeatist is barely noticeable as you OHKO everything in your path. Rock slide and Bulldoze via tms are good too, as well as great lvl up movepool including crunch and later on (just before E4) U-turn. High speed is great also, it annihilates Liepards before than can do anything. It performed well fighting the E4, especially against the fighting one which my team had trouble against. High (btw save before reviving the fossil you don't want a timid nature).

Comes kinda late and is sort of weak and frail, so some grinding is required (it comes just before the flying gym so that part should be easy. Once its evolved, though, it really starts kicking asses. It lvls up very quickly and STAB compound eyes Thunder is a blessing. Signal beam is great when you get it (which is not TOO late) but starts getting weak against the E4 (not 1hkoing musharna after a charge beam boost is annoying), but Its still able to plow through Caitlin and that dark guy after 1-2 boosts. The bad part is that its really frail (especially against physical moves) and needs a little set up before being able to plow through bulkier opponents. Bug Buzz at lvl 60 is late but great and it really helps with the second part of E4. The efficiency of the Spider goes up as you advance through post game. Also it fucking outspeeds everything (even Ghetsis' Hydreigon) with a positive nature (i had hasty). It also gets a few cool physical moves like sucker punch off a decent attack stat, but you're better off sticking to Thunder/thunderbolt - Signal Beam/Bug Buzz - Charge Beam -Energy Ball. Mid-High, very useful post-game.

Is a very useful HM slave with cut strength and fly but besides of that is low.

 

[Tortferngatr]

Alright, my impressions so far [currently beat Mistralton Gym]:

Oshawott: Strong Pokemon, with Mystic Water+Water Gun/Razor Shell/Surf/Aqua Jet he does a lot of damage. He saved my back a lot in the beginning game (i.e. before I got Timburr,) and I find him pretty amazing. Not much to say, really-High-or even Top-Tier.

Timburr: Also Bashful natured-yet still pretty awesome. Fighting+Rock is excellent coverage in-game. The fact that she's (mine was female,) already naturally bulky and slow makes her a perfect Eviolite abuser. I haven't even evolved her yet, though I plan to. that being said, she's started to slow down. Probably

Patrat: ...Varied between "quite useful" and "requires much babying" a lot before Chargestone Cave, which is about when I ditched her for a Joltik and a Ferroseed. She isn't really bulky enough to use Work Up, but early Crunch slays Psychics like nobody's business and when it DOES get enough Work Ups off, it works. Additionally, Keen Eye means that all of the Sand-Attack spammers can die in a fire. When it evolves into Watchog it temporarily becomes awesome, since STAB Retaliation makes for sad enemies. That being said, I soon after found that Normal/Dark, while good initially, isn't all too great in the long run, and he faded into obscurity/mandatory babying before Gym 5. The numerous points as a Patrat that he had to be babied through are another major weak point.

I wouldn't rate her low tier, though-Hypnosis+Super Fang makes the process of capturing a replacement much smoother, and yes, he really does get good for a short time as a Watchog, being able to OHKO/2HKO a lot of different things and use Hypnosis for easier catches. I would keep him at Mid-tier.

(Mid-High tier if you're a fan of Transformice, though. Admit it, you thought Watchog looked like a hard mode Shaman too.)

Pansear: Incinerate is VERY lolweak-you know it's bad when Pansear can barely 2HKO Sewaddles with it. I have fewer qualms with rating him low; although once he gets Flame Burst you can evolve him and temporarily turn him into total awesome, just like Watchog. He has useful resists for making Grass-types easier to beat; he was in fact capable of beating Cilan's Pansage. However, he slows similarly to Watchog, and worse, he isn't nearly so good for catching Pokemon. He's also weak to Rock and Ground, making the Resort Desert troublesome. I stopped using him actively around Gym 5, and ditched him the moment I got Surf (to catch an Axew.).

I would rate him mid-low, preference to low.

Sigilyph: Naughty nature; I decided that it was better to have a useless and slightly hindering nature than to keep combing the desert for another 2.5% appearance rate Magic Guard Sigilyph that might be even worse.

Not much I can has hasn't been said. Overrated, perhaps-it can't get clean sweeps like some other Pokemon can-but it is most certainly deserving of its High-tier status. I might move it to mid-high if we got that tier, as it can't really take STAB Dark-type attacks so easily.

Joltik: She initially was slow. (But not too slow. Bold-natured, BTW-hey, at least it didn't reduce Special Attack or Speed) However, once she got Chage Beam she started doing a LOT better. As a Galvantula at the end of Gym 6 she literally would have swept Skyla had I not decided to let Eviolite Gurdurr take on Swanna with Rock Slide to stop her from being an experience hog. I've literally wondered if Game Freak was encouraging you to abuse Galvantula in the battle with Cheren that follows (at least if you're using Oshawott,) since she beats his team-Liepard is outsped and Signal Beamed, Servine is Signal Beamed, Simipour is hit with either Volt Change or Charge Beam, and even Magnet Charge Beam OHKO's Unfezant, as I learned from curbstomping Skyla. High-even Top-tier.

Ferroseed: She (I've really had a long streak of female mons this game...) has a Sassy nature (woot!)

She can take hits fairly well, but she needs Curse to be able to set up. Also took baying. Nevertheless, I feel that she can currently hold her own-just don't keep her in the front slot if you don't have some type of Repels. Rugged Helmet+Iron Barbs is a nice crit-proofed way of HP-lowering for something that needs to be captured. Haven't evolved her yet. From my current experiences, I would keep Ferroseed Mid-Tier.

Axew-Not used once in combat. Still EXP share babying. Brave natured. No comments yet; I haven't used it too much.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Ok, good, I just thought of this and I needed to get this piece out. I don't think Eviolite is a factor in discussing the tiering of a Pokemon. Simply put, if you have ever discussed in any other tier list discussion(like Fire Emblem), stat boosters are not factored into the awesomeness of a unit/Pokemon, simply because stat boosters are quite literally free-for-all. Example, the DB Speedwing, I can just keep it to the DB and feed it to someone like Aran, or I can have Ilyana transfer it to the GMs for Ike/Haar to eat it. It's not even working at all. :/ I noticed people used Eviolite to argue Sandile up the tier list. IMO this should not be, when you get the Eviolite EVERY SINGLE THING that you have should be able to use it, outside of Simisage/Simisear/Simipour/Throh/Sawk/Sigilyph/Maractus/Audino/Emolga/Victini. Why must I give Eviolite to Sandile, when I can give it to Servine, Pignite or even Whirlipede. Seriously, I don't think we should use Eviolite in tiering discussions.

 

[Citizen]

Ok, good, I just thought of this and I needed to get this piece out. I don't think Eviolite is a factor in discussing the tiering of a Pokemon. Simply put, if you have ever discussed in any other tier list discussion(like Fire Emblem), stat boosters are not factored into the awesomeness of a unit/Pokemon, simply because stat boosters are quite literally free-for-all. Example, the DB Speedwing, I can just keep it to the DB and feed it to someone like Aran, or I can have Ilyana transfer it to the GMs for Ike/Haar to eat it. It's not even working at all. :/ I noticed people used Eviolite to argue Sandile up the tier list. IMO this should not be, when you get the Eviolite EVERY SINGLE THING that you have should be able to use it, outside of Simisage/Simisear/Simipour/Throh/Sawk/Sigilyph/Maractus/Audino/Emolga/Victini. Why must I give Eviolite to Sandile, when I can give it to Servine, Pignite or even Whirlipede. Seriously, I don't think we should use Eviolite in tiering discussions.

oh my god
FIRE EMBLEM
I didn't know that you liked Fire Emblem.
I fucking love Fire Emblem.
Radiant Dawn was quite good; I especially liked the scale and length of the game. WTFPwning Dragons with Tier 3 Units never gets old. And by the way, I gave my Speedwings to my speedscrewed Ike (in order to even stand up to the BK).

Nothing beats FE6 though :)

 

[Ollie]

I think Yamask should be slightly higher - mid-tier maybe - yeah he's generally more of a bulky mon, but his prime offence stat is usable. His speed is atrocious but he's not alone in this regard; loads of this gen's mons have granny speed.

Lol poor Tirtouga, no-one wants him compared to Archen. Archen has crazy mofo eyes, who wouldn't want that to drop some acrobatics like a boss? In all seriousness I gave Tirtouga a shot and he was alright when he wasn't getting totally owned by grass attack

 

[TM13IceBeam]

oh my god
FIRE EMBLEM
I didn't know that you liked Fire Emblem.
I fucking love Fire Emblem.
Radiant Dawn was quite good; I especially liked the scale and length of the game. WTFPwning Dragons with Tier 3 Units never gets old. And by the way, I gave my Speedwings to my speedscrewed Ike (in order to even stand up to the BK).

Nothing beats FE6 though :)

what. ._.

Hide

Not to mention you may need Speedwings for Ike to not get doubled by a certain enemy in a certain chapter to get a certain character

Also eh, Tirtouga is only really good if you got a Sturdy one, Solid Rock isn't going to save it from getting raped by Grass Knot anytime soon. And you need to grind it to get Shell Break, and until then its really slow. Even with Shell Break most of the time you are gonna need another one. You are stuck with Curse until then, and it doesn't boost your shit SpDef as well. Shell Break makes things worse actually. Tirtouga is honestly quite terrible, while Archen can be said to be god tier, this guy just plain sucks. Archen has a Cranidos-like Attack stat, actual Speed, and a decent Special Attack for backup btw.