I have actually tried it, and it wasn't that bad actually. You need Download on it though, because it really needs the boost because you have no Life Orb / Expert Belt / Wise Glasses etc. The only reason why I replaced it was because it didn't offer much in terms of synergy. (I needed Fire covered more than ghost)
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
- Start date
- Status
I have actually tried it, and it wasn't that bad actually. You need Download on it though, because it really needs the boost because you have no Life Orb / Expert Belt / Wise Glasses etc. The only reason why I replaced it was because it didn't offer much in terms of synergy. (I needed Fire covered more than ghost)
Haha, I've been owning so hard with a BlizzSpam team, haven't lost a single battle yet so far (did about 25).
- Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
- Jynx @ Choice Scarf (has Trick and Lovely Kiss for threats)
- Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
- Cryogonal @ Light Clay (Dual Screens + Rapid Spin)
- Starmie @ Choice Specs (has Trick for threats)
- Simipour @ Choice Specs
- Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
- Jynx @ Choice Scarf (has Trick and Lovely Kiss for threats)
- Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
- Cryogonal @ Light Clay (Dual Screens + Rapid Spin)
- Starmie @ Choice Specs (has Trick for threats)
- Simipour @ Choice Specs
Sounds pretty cool - wondering what in particular Simipour offers that no other mon can, as well as if you've faced any Sun teams, which naturally pose Hail issues?
I've got a couple of fairly creative (in my opinion) movesets:
First up is my Specially defensive Nidoqueen:
@ Black Sludge
EV's: 252 HP, 56 Attack, 200 Sp.Def
Nature: Careful
Ability: Poison Point/Rivalry(Sheer Force doesn't allow me to have Stealth Rock)
Moves: Earthquake
Dragon Tail
Toxic Spikes
Stealth Rock
This Nidoqueen plays pretty much as a defensive lead, setting up hazards then shuffling the opponents team via Dragon Tail. Earthquake is mainly chosen to KO a fair number of the pokemon that absorb my toxic spikes. The EV's allow me to take some rather strong Special Attacks (Specs Latios usually does 80%-88% with Draco Meteor, one of the strongest attacks Nidoqueen is likely to face) whilst the 56 Attack EV's mean I can do some damage while shuffling the team.
__________________________________________________________
Next up is my Scizor bait, and as of 5th Gen a brilliant way to combat Excadrill, my variant of a TrickScarf Gardevoir:
@Choice Scarf
EV: 188 HP, 68 Sp.A,252 Speed
Nature: Timid
Ability: Trace
Moves: Trick
Will-O-Wisp
Psychic/Psycho Shock/Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Fire
The main point of this, back in the 4th gen, was to combat Scizor as everyone knows, it is a pain in the arse at times. Being a Psychic Type is a blessing in disguise for this job as it attract Scizor in. Usually I would either Trick, or Will-O-Wisp on the predicted switch either way reducing the power coming from Scizor. If I tricked I would then procceed to HP Fire, which given the EV's OHKO's all but 252/252+ Sp.D spreads of Scizor. In the 5th Gen Trace has been made more useful, by being able to Trace Sand Rush, which means whilst scarfed, Gardevoir can outspeed and Will-O-Wisp a Full HP Excadrill, or KO a weakened one with HP Fire. The other attacking move is either for STAB or coverage, whilst the EV's help with some respectable Bulk, Brilliant speed with Scarf (and sometimes Trace ability) and the SP.A EV's just for some added punch
First up is my Specially defensive Nidoqueen:
EV's: 252 HP, 56 Attack, 200 Sp.Def
Nature: Careful
Ability: Poison Point/Rivalry(Sheer Force doesn't allow me to have Stealth Rock)
Moves: Earthquake
Dragon Tail
Toxic Spikes
Stealth Rock
This Nidoqueen plays pretty much as a defensive lead, setting up hazards then shuffling the opponents team via Dragon Tail. Earthquake is mainly chosen to KO a fair number of the pokemon that absorb my toxic spikes. The EV's allow me to take some rather strong Special Attacks (Specs Latios usually does 80%-88% with Draco Meteor, one of the strongest attacks Nidoqueen is likely to face) whilst the 56 Attack EV's mean I can do some damage while shuffling the team.
__________________________________________________________
Next up is my Scizor bait, and as of 5th Gen a brilliant way to combat Excadrill, my variant of a TrickScarf Gardevoir:
EV: 188 HP, 68 Sp.A,252 Speed
Nature: Timid
Ability: Trace
Moves: Trick
Will-O-Wisp
Psychic/Psycho Shock/Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Fire
The main point of this, back in the 4th gen, was to combat Scizor as everyone knows, it is a pain in the arse at times. Being a Psychic Type is a blessing in disguise for this job as it attract Scizor in. Usually I would either Trick, or Will-O-Wisp on the predicted switch either way reducing the power coming from Scizor. If I tricked I would then procceed to HP Fire, which given the EV's OHKO's all but 252/252+ Sp.D spreads of Scizor. In the 5th Gen Trace has been made more useful, by being able to Trace Sand Rush, which means whilst scarfed, Gardevoir can outspeed and Will-O-Wisp a Full HP Excadrill, or KO a weakened one with HP Fire. The other attacking move is either for STAB or coverage, whilst the EV's help with some respectable Bulk, Brilliant speed with Scarf (and sometimes Trace ability) and the SP.A EV's just for some added punch
Sadly the Gardevoir one is pretty similar to the standard set for it this gen - a weather counter using Trace to its advantage, with a Scarf. If you came up with it on your own, kudos to you, though, it is very effective and rarely seen. Psychic in the third slot to kill Venusaur and non-resisting things, as Electric isn't as useful this gen and your STAB may as well be used. I'd also think about dumping some HP EVs into SpAtk if that edges you any OHKOs on particular threats.
The Nidoqueen on the other hand is very unique and I really like it! She's seemed to fit a few of my teams reasonably but never been chosen because I can't seem to use her too well - but that set looks really great. SR and T-Spikes is something few mons boast, as well as the means to stop them being absorbed, two useful immunities and phazing! Totally gonna try it out sometime lol.
The Nidoqueen on the other hand is very unique and I really like it! She's seemed to fit a few of my teams reasonably but never been chosen because I can't seem to use her too well - but that set looks really great. SR and T-Spikes is something few mons boast, as well as the means to stop them being absorbed, two useful immunities and phazing! Totally gonna try it out sometime lol.
I used the Gardevoir last Gen, when it wasn't used in such a way, but it's good to know that other people saw the same use for it this gen as I did
And thanks for the Nidoqueen rate, it's became a staple on my teams, due to its suprising bulk and hazard set up, I do recommend trying it at some point
And thanks for the Nidoqueen rate, it's became a staple on my teams, due to its suprising bulk and hazard set up, I do recommend trying it at some point
The answer to 'where the hell is Excadrill' is 'on the same team.' the only way to justify Sandslash (other then some sort of defensive spread+Sand Rush+Rapid Spin) in standard is to use both of them in Gen 4 Ubers Double Dragon Style. this is what my main team is based around and it works very well - the speed of the two in sandstorm checks most sweepers and if you try a sweep with one of the two, you'll lure in the enemy counter and be able to kill it with the rest of your team (the opponent will assume they killed your sand sweeper and wouldn't think they need it anymore.)
they shouldn't both have Swords Dance, though. I gave Rapid Spin to Sandslash, she can generally get one off against stall teams and those are the only teams you'd care about hazard removal.
I like X-Scissor over Night Slash for the 4X on Celebi.
I've got a couple of fairly creative (in my opinion) movesets:
First up is my Specially defensive Nidoqueen:
@ Black Sludge
EV's: 252 HP, 56 Attack, 200 Sp.Def
Nature: Careful
Ability: Poison Point/Rivalry(Sheer Force doesn't allow me to have Stealth Rock)
Moves: Earthquake
Dragon Tail
Toxic Spikes
Stealth Rock
This Nidoqueen plays pretty much as a defensive lead, setting up hazards then shuffling the opponents team via Dragon Tail. Earthquake is mainly chosen to KO a fair number of the pokemon that absorb my toxic spikes. The EV's allow me to take some rather strong Special Attacks (Specs Latios usually does 80%-88% with Draco Meteor, one of the strongest attacks Nidoqueen is likely to face) whilst the 56 Attack EV's mean I can do some damage while shuffling the team.
I have scene similar sets like this before. But this one is intriguing mainly because I am looking for a fun lead. How bulky is this when put up against the weather leads or against common attacking leads? You say its a defensive lead yet I really don't know if I can see it taking a hit from common leads like politoed or tyranitar. What have you had success leading against with this nidoqueen?
It would be better to put 31 HP IVs because counter will do more damage if need be. I've fought one of these sets before and it was a total face palm on my behalf.
interesting Gardevior set, I think it may be helpful to put more SpA on it since there's a lot of rain around and you want it to hit as hard as possible. It's also completely screwed by Tyrannitar, though you may burn it, your pokemon is KOed by a pursuit or Crunch. I'd recommend Focus Blast over Hidden Power Fire.
Anyways here's my set, I've used it to great success. I am currently exploring that moves of Natural gift and Fling.
Gyarados @ Watmel Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
72 Hp/252 Atk/184 Spe or 208 Hp/116 Atk/!84 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Aqua Tail
~Stone Edge/Earthquake/Bounce
~Natural Gift
When using this set it's best to get rid up rain when using Natural Gift. Natural gift is a 80 BP Fire attack that lets Gyarados just fuckwreck Nattorei. Natural gift's primary use is to beat Nattorei, who is arguably one of Gyarados' biggest counters. A unboosted Natural gift does 73.9% - 87.5%, does the standard 252 HP/48 Def, Relaxed Nattorei. The alternative Evs are to give a little more bulk, while ensuring Nattorei is OHKOed by a +1 Natural gift.
Anyways here's my set, I've used it to great success. I am currently exploring that moves of Natural gift and Fling.
Gyarados @ Watmel Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
72 Hp/252 Atk/184 Spe or 208 Hp/116 Atk/!84 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Aqua Tail
~Stone Edge/Earthquake/Bounce
~Natural Gift
When using this set it's best to get rid up rain when using Natural Gift. Natural gift is a 80 BP Fire attack that lets Gyarados just fuckwreck Nattorei. Natural gift's primary use is to beat Nattorei, who is arguably one of Gyarados' biggest counters. A unboosted Natural gift does 73.9% - 87.5%, does the standard 252 HP/48 Def, Relaxed Nattorei. The alternative Evs are to give a little more bulk, while ensuring Nattorei is OHKOed by a +1 Natural gift.
@Gyarados: Natural Gift is fun! I'm in no position to comment on the EVs, but it looks very effective if Ferrothorn is their only defense against a Gyara sweep.
Has anybody used a Tyranitar like:
Ttar @ Leftovers
Careful
252 HP/200 SpD/58 Atk (don't trust me on how effective these are!)
-Dragon Tail
-Crunch
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute/coverage move/Rest?
Of course, this would be much more useful with entry hazards.
Has anybody used a Tyranitar like:
Ttar @ Leftovers
Careful
252 HP/200 SpD/58 Atk (don't trust me on how effective these are!)
-Dragon Tail
-Crunch
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute/coverage move/Rest?
Of course, this would be much more useful with entry hazards.
interesting Gardevior set, I think it may be helpful to put more SpA on it since there's a lot of rain around and you want it to hit as hard as possible. It's also completely screwed by Tyrannitar, though you may burn it, your pokemon is KOed by a pursuit or Crunch. I'd recommend Focus Blast over Hidden Power Fire.
Anyways here's my set, I've used it to great success. I am currently exploring that moves of Natural gift and Fling.
Gyarados @ Watmel Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
72 Hp/252 Atk/184 Spe or 208 Hp/116 Atk/!84 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Aqua Tail
~Stone Edge/Bounce
~Natural Gift
When using this set it's best to get rid up rain when using Natural Gift. Natural gift is a 80 BP Fire attack that lets Gyarados just fuckwreck Nattorei. Natural gift's primary use is to beat Nattorei, who is arguably one of Gyarados' biggest counters. A unboosted Natural gift does 73.9% - 87.5%, does the standard 252 HP/48 Def, Relaxed Nattorei. The alternative Evs are to give a little more bulk, while ensuring Nattorei is OHKOed by a +1 Natural gift.
That's a cool idea. But why Aqua Tail over Waterfall?
Some people prefer the power.
I just prefer the power, since I barely ever get the flinchrate from Waterfall. 90% accuracy isn't that bad either.
If you're getting rid of Ferrothorn, you might as well run return...
Stone Miss and 85% accuracy bounce are not reliable and bounce forces gyara to take 12.5% of its damage in SS. If Ferrothorn switches in, this becomes 25%. If you switched in on SR, this becomes 50%. That's not favorable.
Stone Miss and 85% accuracy bounce are not reliable and bounce forces gyara to take 12.5% of its damage in SS. If Ferrothorn switches in, this becomes 25%. If you switched in on SR, this becomes 50%. That's not favorable.
Okay, so Bounce might not be the optimal move in the slot. I don't like Return since its only point is to get neutral coverage on most pokemon. I'd rather run Earthquake since it actually hit some types for SE damage.
Gyarados @ Watmel Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
72 Hp/252 Atk/184 Spe or 208 Hp/116 Atk/!84 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Aqua Tail
~Earthquake/Stone Edge/Bounce
~Natural Gift
When using this set it's best to get rid up rain when using Natural Gift. Natural gift is a 80 BP Fire attack that lets Gyarados just fuckwreck Nattorei. Natural gift's primary use is to beat Nattorei, who is arguably one of Gyarados' biggest counters. A unboosted Natural gift does 73.9% - 87.5%, does the standard 252 HP/48 Def, Relaxed Nattorei. The alternative Evs are to give a little more bulk, while ensuring Nattorei is OHKOed by a +1 Natural gift.
Honestly natural gift sort of sucks, once you use it, you have basically lost a possible move, and it doesn't even 1HKO Ferrothorn, so its not that big of a surprise factor. Waterfall is always a better options then waterfall, since gyrados can't afford a miss, for only 10 more power. And with natural power-fire earthqauek isn't really needed, so thats not a good option.
Rain Team Magnezone
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
Nature: Timid
Evs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 106 Spe
-thunder
-hidden power fire
-substitute
-metal sound
Now you may be thinking, "metal sound? wtf? that sucks" usually yes, it does. But thats becuase usually things just switch, but with magnet pull, they can't. And if you don't know ferrothorn is a serious problem for most rain teams, not only becuase of its decent bulk that the can't break through well, but rain adds to this annoyance even more. The solution I think is Magnezone, but Magnezones movepool is pretty aweful, but when searching through I believe I found a gem, metal sound. The basic idea is to metal sound up then kill this thing off in 2 hits with HP fire, as opposed to 3 hits normally. Now I know what your thinking, its still 3 turns so why does it matter? With leech seed, ferrothorn might be able to stall its say back up to a 4HKO, in which case that basic 3HKO looks a whole lot better. Also it has the added benifit to do something, if lets say it has a shed shell. Since most of the time its either Garchomp or Excadrill coming in to you thunderwave and toxic, aren't that useful, especailly on Excadrill. Now then its special defense is greatly lowered and its at threat from being 1HKOed by whatever you bring in.
Now the rest of the moves are fairly simple. Thunder is a great stab move in the rain, HP fire for Ferrothorn. Substitute since usually the things you trap can't do anything to you and why not set it up so might be able to get a free hit out before you forced to switch. Leftovers is needed for substitute, but balloon is worth considering. The evs allow you to make a sub that will survive a ferrothorn's power whip, while still outspeeding Skarmory.
Wow, thats a real wiz with the numbers. Funny thing is that was the suggested bulky set, given on the Magnezone thread, to take Ferrothorn power whips for subs. If what you say is true, it needs to be changed.
I think you might be surprised. A Adamant Life Orb Fire Blast with 0 SpA Evs does 56.5% - 66.7% to the standard Ferrothorn, a clean 2ko. Salamence basically does the DD+Fire blast set much better though and that's one of the reasons why I chose Natural Gift over Fire Blast. Another reason is that you can boost the power of Natural gift, and you don't need to split the attacking evs. You switch into something that Gyarados will easily set up on or switch out, then DD and OKHO any Ferrothorn that tries to fuck with you.
- Status