This! Though, it will take some time.
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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
Medicham is great. Pure power give it 60 base atk to 120.
Plus stab hi jump kick = pain. a reliable healing move (recover)
He has resist fighting attack. he can carry a stab drain punch.
Carry bullet punch and zen headbutt to cover fighting. he is a great pokemon and should earn an analysis.
Plus stab hi jump kick = pain. a reliable healing move (recover)
He has resist fighting attack. he can carry a stab drain punch.
Carry bullet punch and zen headbutt to cover fighting. he is a great pokemon and should earn an analysis.
NO. Medicham just has too many problems to even consider having an OU analysis. He's frail as fuck, which wouldn't be such an issue if he wasn't also slow as hell. If you want to patch up that Speed problem, your going to be locked in and set up on. If you want to dish out great damage, your sacrificng basically any chance of being usful against an offensive team.
Besides, why would you use Medicham when you have Azumarill, which has a better typing to switch into (Water has four resistances, Fighting+Psychic has only two), more bulk (100/80/80 defenses is nothing to scoff at) and STAB Priority? (oh sure, Medicham has Bullet Punch, but that's nothing compared to Azumarill's Aqua Jet)
I'm going to try my hand at Crobat.
I know Crobat has a QC analysis in progress, but does it actually do anything significant in the metagame right now? Its bulk and offensive stats aren't very outstanding unboosted, and in a metagame filled with Chlorophyll, Sand Rush, and Choice Scarf users like the ever common Garchomp, its Speed isn't what it used to be last generation. It's even Stealth Rock weak, so U-turn is out of the question sometimes.
I know from experience last generation that QC struggled to find anything for Crobat to do in BL/OU. In this generation, I think it takes the cake for "not doing anything notable". It's just so...subpar here, even with its Choice Band set (which is pretty much the only decent thing Crobat can do in fifth gen OU).
I know Crobat has a QC analysis in progress, but does it actually do anything significant in the metagame right now? Its bulk and offensive stats aren't very outstanding unboosted, and in a metagame filled with Chlorophyll, Sand Rush, and Choice Scarf users like the ever common Garchomp, its Speed isn't what it used to be last generation. It's even Stealth Rock weak, so U-turn is out of the question sometimes.
I know from experience last generation that QC struggled to find anything for Crobat to do in BL/OU. In this generation, I think it takes the cake for "not doing anything notable". It's just so...subpar here, even with its Choice Band set (which is pretty much the only decent thing Crobat can do in fifth gen OU).
No no no i'm sorry but Froslass is out classed by Infernape, Aerodactyl, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Etc. and ruined by team preview.
I wrote the Gardevoir analysis, it was rejected by QC largely because of Aldaron's Proposal, which essentially removed offensive rain from the metagame and thus divested Gardevoir of its purpose.
Also, Froslass isn't "outclassed" by any of the other pokémon. It has a unique role as a Spikes user that blocks Rapid Spin on its own and has a fast Taunt to shut down opposition. It's just not very good due to its frailty and lack of offensive presence.
Froslass is an insanely powerful counter to the likes of Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence, and Gyarados (since they are up pokes, you get a free switch in when they attempt a DD). Add in Destiny Bond, and you have a very fun surprise for your opponents.
And FYI, Scarfed Froslass > Aerodactyl.
With SR, she gets an OHKO against him.
Wouldn't they just outspeed +0 Froslass and KO it then? Some of them even run Yache Berry to prevent Ice Shard Weavile from defeating them, so Froslass can't be classified as a counter. Froslass is overall better off supporting since her offensive sets are so easily exploitable (I'm not even sure she deserves an analysis anymore).
Scarf gives her +1
I'm determined to prove that Scarfed Froslass is a force to be reckoned with.
No she can't. Froslass is not only difficult to switch in due to its frailty, but her job as a Spiker is done better by a LOT of Pokes (blocking Rapid Spin is fun and all, but Forretress, Tentacruel, and Hitmontop can just KO Froslass with the appropriate move). As a revenge killer, Froslass is GREATLY outclassed by Lati@s, both of which boast much higher defensive and offensive capabilities as well as a better movepool and STAB.
Scarfed Froslass (I assume Timid) has a frankly horrible attacking stat of 259 to use. To put this into perspective, Ice Beam only deals 68.2% - 81.5% to offensive Latios, with Shadow Ball doing only 57.6% - 68.2%. Likewise, Shadow Ball deals only 51.4% - 60.8% to 252HP Reuniclus, and Ice Beam fails to OHKO even Thundurus, who takes 82.9% - 98.3%.
SPECS Froslass might have been a little better, but even then it's largely outclassed by Starmie.
I like Frosslass but I agree, generally. The only use Frosslass might have is as a spin blocker on a hail team. And then the question becomes "You're using a hail team, wtf do you need a spin blocker for?"
EDIT: Though, I guess it is worth mentioning that Snow Cloak in a hail storm might save Fross Lass from being utterly destroyed.
EDIT: Though, I guess it is worth mentioning that Snow Cloak in a hail storm might save Fross Lass from being utterly destroyed.
The lead set is pretty much the only reason you'd use Froslass. Whilst it's slightly underwhelming it's absolutely unique and can't be pulled off by any other pokémon. Plus the haxy Hail set is also pretty good.
Agreeing with the arguments above against Froslass. I don't believe she needs an analysis at this point either.
I'd like to bring up a Pokemon that's been mentioned numerous times throughout this topic, yet has never received any strong opposition for receiving an OU Analysis: Exeggutor.
I've been playtesting a lot with the walking tree, and I've really enjoyed the results. Let me provide some points to consider:
Now, if that type of versatility isn't enough, note that Exeggutor is resistant to Grass, Water, Electric, Ground, and Fighting types. With many commonly found resistances, Exeggutor doesn't have much trouble switching in. It can take status effects with perfect ease while dishing out hard damage. Let me highlight some of the Pokemon it counters best:
While Exeggutor is x4 weak to Bug-type attacks and x2 to Pursuit, measures can be taken to alleviate these problems. It is honestly not hard to predict U-Turn on something like Mienshao or Scizor, so a switch can easily be made. When running in sunlight, Exeggutor can put both threats to sleep and then hit with Psychic or switch out safely. A Tanga Berry can be used with Harvest to prevent Bug-types from hitting so hard, but it is usually easy enough to predict U-Turn. Exeggutor can handle staying in with many Pursuit users when it has defensive EVs; Tyranitar specifically will not like STAB Leaf Storm. Regardless, it can Sleep Powder those threats and then instantly recover with LumRest.
Whether it be to recover HP and statuses indefinitely, hit hard with Base 125 Special Attack with Chlorophyll under sunlight, or providing team support for Steel-types like Heatran and Excadrill that dread Fighting-types, Exeggutor is versatile enough to perform many roles in OU. I hope what I've researched makes some sense. If the general consensus is that Exeggutor should get an OU analysis, I'd love to take part in writing it up; I have lots of the groundwork done already!
Thanks for your time.
I've been playtesting a lot with the walking tree, and I've really enjoyed the results. Let me provide some points to consider:
- It has two fantastic abilities in Harvest and Chlorophyll.
- Under sun, it is the hardest-hitting Grass Pokemon at Base Special Attack 125. Compared to 110 base Lilligant and Tangrowth, its STAB Leaf Storm hits harder than any other threat with Chlorophyll boost.
EDIT: Upon further calculations, I've found that a 252 Speed EV spread with neutral nature on Exeggutor wields a whopping 418 under sunlight. This allows it to outspeed the likes of Max Speed Stat Crobat, Infernape, Weavile, and Aerodactyl (ie most everything). It can then proceed to mess them up with Sleep Powder or take them out with its 383 Special Attack stat (with max EVs and + nature), complete with STAB. - With Harvest, Lum Berry Exeggutor is able to absorb any status with no problems, from Poison to confusion.
- By using Rest, Exeggutor can instantly recover its entire HP stat as many times as it'd like with no repercussions, thanks to Harvest Lum Berry.
- With access to STAB Psychic, Psyshock, and Sludge Bomb, it can make an offensive presence with its 125 base Special Attack.
- Its plausible 95 Base Attack can pack a punch behind Explosion, even with 0 EVs invested.
- Doesn't require Rest / Lum berry to recover since it has access to Leech Seed, Moonlight, and Synthesis.
- Can run Tanga Berry with Harvest to alleviate its 4x Bug weakness. Block could even be used in conjunction to prevent U-Turning away, making for an easy KO on Mienshao.
- It has plenty of team support moves like Toxic, Sleep Powder, Trick Room, and Stun Spore.
Now, if that type of versatility isn't enough, note that Exeggutor is resistant to Grass, Water, Electric, Ground, and Fighting types. With many commonly found resistances, Exeggutor doesn't have much trouble switching in. It can take status effects with perfect ease while dishing out hard damage. Let me highlight some of the Pokemon it counters best:
- Conkeldurr - Exeggutor is an absolute champion against this guy. According to my calculations, Positive Atk Nature, Max EVs, +1 Bulk Up, STAB, AND Guts activated Drain Punch on Conkeldurr against Neutral Defense Nature, 252 HP / 0 Defense EVs Exeggutor only does 31.0% ~ 36.5%. With the odds stocked completely against it, Exeggutor only takes about 1/3 damage from its most powerful attack, which it could recover off easily with LumRest or other recovering options. Payback Conkeldurr is always going to be outrun by Exeggutor, who can either OHKO with STAB Psychic or put it to sleep with Sleep Powder. Seeing as Conkeldurr is such a huge threat in OU, Exeggutor really steps up to the plate to resist its massive hits and retaliate with some moves of its own.
- Breloom - In the same vein, Exeggutor completely walls any Breloom set. With resistance to its STAB Fighting-type attacks, it can switch in with ease. Don't forget that Lum Berry can handle Spore and that Exeggutor's Grass typing doesn't take Leech Seed. Exeggutor can use this time to put it to sleep with Sleep Powder or hit it with STAB Psychic for a near-guaranteed OHKO. If you have some defense EVs invested, Exeggutor stands up fine against Facade and Stone Edge, and can LumRest away any damage.
- Ferrothorn - Exeggutor can render Ferrothorn useless by putting it to sleep with Sleep Powder. It resists Power Whip and Bulldoze and won't take Leech Seed damage. While asleep, Ferrothorn is open to being finished off with HP Fire or one of your fiery teammates.
- Gliscor - Unless it's running with Ice Fang, Gliscor is gonna face some serious issues. Exeggutor won't take Toxic with Lum Berry and can hit hard with both STABs for neutral damage. HP Ice lets Chlorophyll Exeggutor hit hard on Gliscor's middling Special Defense. With the right prediction, Exeggutor can stop the right Gliscor set in its tracks.
While Exeggutor is x4 weak to Bug-type attacks and x2 to Pursuit, measures can be taken to alleviate these problems. It is honestly not hard to predict U-Turn on something like Mienshao or Scizor, so a switch can easily be made. When running in sunlight, Exeggutor can put both threats to sleep and then hit with Psychic or switch out safely. A Tanga Berry can be used with Harvest to prevent Bug-types from hitting so hard, but it is usually easy enough to predict U-Turn. Exeggutor can handle staying in with many Pursuit users when it has defensive EVs; Tyranitar specifically will not like STAB Leaf Storm. Regardless, it can Sleep Powder those threats and then instantly recover with LumRest.
Whether it be to recover HP and statuses indefinitely, hit hard with Base 125 Special Attack with Chlorophyll under sunlight, or providing team support for Steel-types like Heatran and Excadrill that dread Fighting-types, Exeggutor is versatile enough to perform many roles in OU. I hope what I've researched makes some sense. If the general consensus is that Exeggutor should get an OU analysis, I'd love to take part in writing it up; I have lots of the groundwork done already!
Thanks for your time.
Froslass is kinda like Electrivire; it isn't super special awesome mega fantastic in the OU metagame, but it occupies a few slight niches which have been said above. It's the only Pokemon that can use Spikes while spin-blocking at the same time, and that's probably the only reason why it's getting an analysis.
Edit: Oops, Yourself got in before me.
Edit: Oops, Yourself got in before me.
I'm seconding Exeggutor. I got one with a Bold nature and max special attack IVs from the Dream World the other day. Don't know what I'm going to do with it as there are many possibilities. On top of that, Yourself has made most of the points I wish to make. None the less, Exeggutor has some good reasons for not getting an analysis.
Base 65 Special Defence isn't going to get it far defensively (especially without Calm Mind which I find odd). Then there's the fact that Harvest only works 100% of the time in strong sunlight. 100% or 66%, with strong attacks coming from everywhere, it's not going to make much of a difference. Also Lilligant has Quiver Dance while Venusaur and Tangrowth have a wide variety of attacks.
None the less, Exeggutor's something to watch out for. I'll consider testing it and then I'll come back with results.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Quiver_Dance_(move)
Base 65 Special Defence isn't going to get it far defensively (especially without Calm Mind which I find odd). Then there's the fact that Harvest only works 100% of the time in strong sunlight. 100% or 66%, with strong attacks coming from everywhere, it's not going to make much of a difference. Also Lilligant has Quiver Dance while Venusaur and Tangrowth have a wide variety of attacks.
None the less, Exeggutor's something to watch out for. I'll consider testing it and then I'll come back with results.http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Quiver_Dance_(move)
I quite like the Nasty Plot set with Heat Wave and Air Slash. And Poison/Flying has a bunch of resistances, meaning it can switch in and set up or spam status very easily. It's also surprisingly bulky, and has great versatility with Roost, U-Turn, Super Fang, Whirlwind, Brave Bird, etc.
Thanks for agreeing with me... I think? Haha, some of your wording is a bit weird. Harvest works all the time, regardless of sunlight. It allows it to recover from any statuses, making for an excellent counter to Defensive Politoed and Breloom, to name a few threats.
What sets Exeggutor apart from other Chlorophyll users is its Special Attack stat. At Base 125, Leaf Storm is going to be hitting harder than any other grass attack out there; Energy Ball and Giga Drain are great options if you aren't appreciating the drop. HP Fire gets much support from its ridiculous Special Attack combined with sunlight. Exeggutor is going to be hitting harder than any other OU threat under sunlight without any set up while simultaneously resisting Fighting-types.
Under more research, Exeggutor has semi-viability to run a physically offensive set. With access to Wood Hammer / Seed Bomb and Zen Headbutt, it can dent with both sides. Interestingly enough, Low Kick has the slightest hint of usability as well. It can OHKO Weavile (which it outspeeds) and make a large dent into Blissey and Heatran (enough to 2HKO). Explosion also appreciates the boosted Attack and can go out with a bang.
Also, it can run with Reflect and Light Screen if you're looking for team defense. Basically, Exeggutor has lots of options and perform many roles well. What do you guys think?
No it doesn't. Harvest isn't 100% activation meaning it's entirely luck based if it isn't in the sunlight (sun is the only weather that makes it 100% activation). This also means it doesn't always has the item it needs to use it.
Overall I'm mixed on the issue of Exeggutor. If it runs a Chloro set then it easily walled and if it is running a defensive set then it is easily threatened by most of the biggest threats in this metagame (scizor literally lols at it along with other steels) if it doesn't have the HP necessary. Also if it is running an odd set trying to take advantage of items then you're relying entirely on luck.
Overall I'm mixed on the issue of Exeggutor. If it runs a Chloro set then it easily walled and if it is running a defensive set then it is easily threatened by most of the biggest threats in this metagame (scizor literally lols at it along with other steels) if it doesn't have the HP necessary. Also if it is running an odd set trying to take advantage of items then you're relying entirely on luck.
So when is he getting that Dragon Dance off? What does Substitute accomplish at all besides making you lose 25% of your HP before you get forced out due to not doing shit to the switch in? His typing does not do him any favours, leaving him weak to the most common move-types and Fighting-type priority, and his Speed is crap.