i have said you this a million times!my concern about sand veil is uncompetitiveness not that it makes garchomp broken!stop telling me about about garchomp's brokeness...
Y'know why people keep saying that? Because they think we should only be banning for being broken. Arguing anything else isn't going to get you anywhere at this stage.
did you forget what i said before?the counters must be viable in their current enviroment?so roserade will use a 60bp move just to kill one poke that isn't even common?hariyama will run the useless vital throw instead of revenge or close combat or even brick break(breaks screens)only to kill one poke that again is very uncommon.as you see i could go on...
sand veil and snow cloak don't have counters becuase always hitting moves suck!badly!that's why we have banned the evasion raising moves...if the always hitting moves didn't suck so bad then why didn't we let double team in our metagame huh?'cause with these moves we could handle double team without any problem.so problem solved see?but unfortunately these moves are not used for a reason...so don't tell me sucky options that noone would ever use for a problem that i present right in your eyes...
So, wait, let me remind you of a small argument earlier. You're saying that the perfect acc. moves suck, right? So, say, why would someone use a move like that, for the damage or the effect? Well, the damage is the main part - the fact that it's guaranteed is just a side-bonus. So, is Iron Head the same?
No. The simple truth is that, if evasion is that much of a problem, the perfect accuracy moves are completely viable. If you still insist that they're not worth running at the moment, then Sand Veil/Snow Cloak aren't enough of a problem for you to run them. There is no other middle ground. Either it is a threat, in which case you would at least consider running the response, or it's not that big a threat, in which case you have no real ground in this argument.
yes you are so right...why i didn't think about it earlier???every major powerhouse usually has 6 free turns to boost it's evasion to the point that it will be hit only once every 3 hits.and because usually most powerhouses are very bulky they can take 2 or 3 hits before they die?right?
are you serious?in which game you will find six free turns?evasion will give them to you?'cause even after 3 uses the opponent has bigger chances of hitting you that it has to miss...so in most of the battles your offensive powerhouse will die in 1 or 2 hits before it even gets to +6.so pls get real!if you are treating things like this then ok...imagine a +6/+6/+6 volcarona?scary right?let's ban it?but wait i forgot...how will volcarona find all these turns?and about the defensive juggernanunts that you were talking about...i imagine that you are reffering to pokes which have reliable recovery or else it doesn't matter how defensive they are 'cause when i switch into my counter they will die in 3 hits at most.and as i told you before 3 hits are not difficult to land.so they have double team,healing move,and what?a boosting move to raise their attack or something?fine then they only use 1 attacking move so this means that they are walled by 100 pokes...or do they use an attcking move along with toxic.any steel type with recovery can take them.any ppoison type with recovery can get them.every glsicor can take them.every poke with recovery and sub can take them.is he running 2 moves so he can have good coverage...fine then he is just walled easily by many things 'cause his attack is unboosted and uninvestes(you said defensive juggernaunts so i assume that they will be defensively evd)...
Let's take a quick look at, say, Quagsire. It's Unaware, runs a defensive set and can spam Double Team. Let's say it runs Stockpile/Double Team/Recover/Ice Beam. So yeah, Pokemon like Empoleon can wall it... but he walls them just as well. And if you say it won't be able to set up easily, you've not gone against a defensive Quagsire lately. Stockpile to +3 is pretty easy to reach, and it's pretty much Taunt, Grass-attack or watch and weep.
so why did we ban the move and not the pokes that became broken with it?'cause we banned this move due to uncompetitiveness!
No, we banned it because the majority voted to, most likely. That doesn't mean it's broken or uncompetitive, it just means people didn't want it, so it was undesirable. The reasoning behind that is unknown to pretty much all of us, so quit saying it was for a lack of competitiveness without a way of proving it.
Roosh: Why does an ability make it different to an attack? Both are parts of the Pokemon that are specific to that Pokemon (possibly specific to others, but definitely not available to all.) We're leaning towards that slippery slope argument again, where we look at each side:
- Basic bans (The whole of Ubers)
- Complex ban (Drizzle + Swift Swim)
- Specific ability ban (Speed Boost Blaziken)
- Specific move ban (Dark Void Darkrai)
- Overly specific bans ("Ho-oh's OU as long as we ban this and this and...")
Obviously, we've already got the first two. Obviously, we want to avoid the last one. The question always comes up regarding the other two, but most would agree that the move ban needs to be avoided, so it just comes down to that middle one - personally, I see that as closer to the Specific Move Ban than the Complex Ban. The argument is: how far do we go? At what point do we say "No, it's the Pokemon that we ban - let's
not try to keep it in OU by limiting its options"?
