League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

catalyst is the best lane sustainability item in the game. when you build roa and another catalyst, every time you level up your mana will pretty much be refilled, as well as your health (if not close to it)

as for the thornmail argument i will say that 90% of games will not require a thornmail. i see non-beefy champions building thornmail when the other team is ad heavy - this is not the way to go. if it's lategame and yi and trynd have all their items, thornmail will not save you from them. they will still melt you down, sure they might take a lot of damage but you will still be dead. the best armor items for squishies (barring guardian angel of course) are frozen heart and randuin's omen. both have team utility (if the warwick on the other team tries to dive through your team to get to you, you can slow his attacks with frozen heart, allowing your team to melt him as he does nothing. randuin's can be used as a clutch cc for when you feel overwhelmed.) and provide a lot of armor, unlike thornmail which is just 'ok i have armor so now what'

i haven't tried out nerfed vayne yet, but then again i never played release vayne, i will have a game and let you guys know what i think
 
theamericandream38 said:
Unless you play an actually good initiator, who cannot be ignored (i.e. someone with a taunt or strong CC or enough damage to make you regret ignoring them)
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Only three or four champions in the game FORCE the opponent to focus them... Ignore Renekton and you will die, and Shen, Galio, and Rammus have taunts that make you attack them. Otherwise, you can ignore anyone.

Yeah, GA is the worst item ever on tanks... just the tiniest of mitigation and an absolutely USELESS passive. "Oh goodie, I have an extra 700 Health on top of my 3500 to do just that much more minuscule damage."

I find the honest secret to tanking is to get around 50% resistance and stack HP, so that when the enemy tries to DPS/Nuke you, it looks like they're really doing damage with the lower resistance rate, while still having extremely high effective health. That way the damage is satisfying enough for them that they continue to focus you, despite the fact that it does nothing truly significant. I always laugh when I see a tank get fed and stack up to nigh on 70+% resistance in both, which just guarantees they'll get ignored as it's obvious they're unkillable, effectively neutering themselves as tanks...
 
Catalyst is a good early game item, that builds into two much better late game items (one of which now even gets the catalyst passive). But why build two catalysts as your core?

As for Thornmail, I'd say that's 90% of games where enemy AD is an issue. It's not even a question against balanced teams. When AD is an issue, Randuin's and Frozen Heart are better almost always, but here's the real kicker; both of them make Thornmail less effective.

I played a Vayne game yesterday where I went 0/7 initially. Wasn't my fault or my team's. They had an Ezreal, Twitch, and Kog'Maw who actively hunted me down. Halfway through the game I was practically begging our Amumu to get an Oracle's. Once he did, we caught Twitch off-guard in the jungle. I've played enough Amumu to know that he gave me the kill, cause I was really fucking hating that rat. But the real kicker? Twitch was in bottom lane pushing tower away from the rest of my team. He had just annihilated our Nasus, and was healing back to full. I had no intention of engaging him, I was just gonna tower hug. When he sees me he activates stealth and runs towards the bush, but he must have though "Oh, that 1/7 Vayne I've been killing, why run?". So I shot, tumbled, staked him to the wall, then shot him again while he was stunned for the kill. Never have I ever been dominated all game, then been able to get revenge on my aggressor like that. I destroyed him as if I had been fed all game. We won, and I finished with a respectable comeback of 6/11/10ish. So yeah, she's good. I don't think she's as good a mid as others do, though. The tumble double shot requires you to commit to a fight, which is how Kog'Maw killed me the first time, combined with Ignite.

Valkyrie, there's a massive list of champions you can't ignore, and honestly Renekton isn't high on it (way overhyped in my opinion). Having said that, GA certainly gives alot of reason to ignore them in a team fight, which is the only place where GA matters.
 
vonFiedler said:
When AD is an issue, Randuin's and Frozen Heart are better almost always, but here's the real kicker; both of them make Thornmail less effective..
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I was under the impression that Thornmail returns damage BEFORE mitigation is calculated; e.g. it treats the damage returned as if you took true damage, but the actual damage you take is still mitigated by armor meaning that stacking more armor will not reduce thornmail damage.
 
vonFiedler said:
Valkyrie, there's a massive list of champions you can't ignore, and honestly Renekton isn't high on it (way overhyped in my opinion). Having said that, GA certainly gives alot of reason to ignore them in a team fight, which is the only place where GA matters.
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There is a difference between a champ you can't ignore and a tank that you can't ignore. Renekton's one of the only tanks that can still destroy a team if left alone in a fight... not many other tanks can say that. Rarely are you forced to say that one of your top focuses has to be the tank when they aren't fed.

EDIT: Thornmail is only for when the enemy team has one really fed AD champ. For every other situation Randuin's and Frozen Heart are better.
 
Randuin's and Frozen Heart both reduce attack speed, which has reverse synergy with Thornmail.

Renekton ain't a tank. He's an offtank. Huge difference. That, and "destroy a team" is very much hyperbole. I've rarely seen Renekton function as much more than an anti-carry/clean-up.
 
he is not an offtank in every game you play him, he can be built as one though.

bruisers find the mix between damage and survivability. they're usually the ones that go in after an initiation to immediately pressure the enemy team. they're the best duelists, and perform best in small scale fights. offtanks are just there to tank damage when the main initiator can't, but they usually do damage too (due to high bases, triforce etc). i guess if you wanted to play an offtank you'd play irelia or jarvan. blitz and garen are offtanks too.

incidentally does anybody else play nocturne with more survivability than they usually would build on a squishy melee dps? i find that youmuu's ghostblade is all i really need to do my job since your ad is boosted by duskbringer. usually my final build includes a randuin's omen instead of stopping at banshee's veil like most squishy dps champions
 
Thorns said:
incidentally does anybody else play nocturne with more survivability than they usually would build on a squishy melee dps? i find that youmuu's ghostblade is all i really need to do my job since your ad is boosted by duskbringer. usually my final build includes a randuin's omen instead of stopping at banshee's veil like most squishy dps champions
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Yes, I build Nocturne in the same way, grabbing Boots, a Youmuu's, a Randuin's, and a Banshee's Veil, then going into an Atma's, finishing off with either a Bloodthirster or an Infinity Edge. His steroids and bases are high enough that you don't need to much to make him effective, and the way you throw yourself at the enemy team, you're forced to build tanky. He's really built more like Xin Zhao than anything else imo, and it's just weird to see that kind of tanky DPS build work the way it does on an AD assassin.
 
Warwick was the first champion I ever bought. I bought him without playing him first (I've only otherwise done this with Karthus), and I didn't regret it at all. You might remember me boasting about how nigh unbeatable he was... back when I was Level 10 or so. Well over time I played more champions (all but two of them), bought about 10 more, learned how to play mages (which I initially did not understand at all), and like many of the champs I own, I didn't actually play WW much. I had intended to buy a variety of champs, get good with them, and then have something for any ranked game.

Only problem is that I cannot play Warwick.

It's not entirely his fault. I can't competently play Melee AD in general. Xin Zhao, Master Yi, Tryndamere... I've had a few great games with these champions, but I almost always suck hard.

I can jungle fine but I can't do anything in a teamfight. What am I supposed to be going for with WW in Ranked games?
 
Whypeopledonttank.png

Why do I tank? >_>
 
How do you guys build Jax? I'm having a hard time finding a balance of offense and defense.

My current core is:
Boots (usually Ninja Tabi)
Rageblade
Gunblade
Banshee's Veil

After that, there are a lot of really good items that he can buy - another Gunblade, Triforce, Atma's Impaler, Randuin's Omen, Frozen Heart, etc. There's also penetration options like Void Staff or even Black Cleaver. I'm not sure.

Thoughts?
 
I also have a hard time playing Warwick, or maybe jungling in general. I'm too slow to jungle and I don't build him to have enough damage output for laning. He too was my first char, but now I progressively play him a lot less.

Also, what masteries do you use for Jax? 21/9 or 9/21?
 
rageblade/gunblade/rylai's are your three main items as jax. it's a super expensive build which is why jax is really hard to play correctly, though with metagame changes he is getting better

deathcap really is great on him, i don't see the point of playing jax as anything other than ap with some armor pen

i am in the process of creating a warwick guide on solomid.net, and don't forget to hop on the Smogon chatroom!
 
So I was playing with some friends as usual, and I said "I don't know, Master Yi may be easy, but he just doesn't feel like it." And my friend Spacewizard, says "I'm pretty sure he's the easiest champ to play in the game," to which I responded "His kit is way to clunky to actually be as easy as you think, and how could you know, you've never played him before..."

So obviously, this prompted the Great Dick Shitting War of 2011. We immediately queue up into a game, in which I play Nocturne and he plays Master Yi. The game starts off with us laning together. Nothing really interesting happens beyond a few missed mia calls and one death for each of us. But soon, I got my Wriggle's and a double kill, letting me get a leg up on items. 5 minutes and 5 kills later, I start mentioning how I see Space has a 0/2 score, and how I'm 7/1. He decides to show me up by attempting to dive a Mundo and Warwick, which actually could've been a good plan, except for the fact that not only did he die in the process, I got another double kill.

At this point he promptly decides he really has to prove a point, and says this out loud to me. In response, I whip out the mightiest of all Quadra kills in a 2 v 5 team fight. Naturally, his dick is feeling pretty shit on right about now, so he begins farming. Slowly, but surely he gains items. Eventually he picks up 2.5 Attack Speed, and begins to run around next to me, to ensure he gets kills and I don't with his faster attack time. He soon gets up to 12/6 to my 15/2. At this point, literally every single person on the enemy team got Thornmails, so both Space and I grabbed Bloodthirsters to couple with our Wriggle's, meaning that we still gain life for attacking them, even despite the Thornmail. 2 Barons, 5 turret kills, and 3 inhib kills later we push against the nexus with a final score of 18/4/18 for myself, and 20/8/13 for him.

Ultimately this leads to us yelling at each other in all caps in the chat room about how bad the other one is and how jealous they are of the other. He spoke a lot of big talk about how he had more kills, whereas I reminded him how I had 5 more assists and half his deaths. As everything died down and everyone else left the room, I checked the graphs...

Physical Damage Dealt:

Spacewizard: 90,975.

TheValkyries: 177,734.

Fuck him, the ksing bastard.
 
same thing (sort of) happened to me in my last game. i was singed and got a double kill in a 1v2 lane while my friend was jungling nocturne and tower dove to set me up the kills. after i started trash talking him in all chat calling him a feeder as a joke he started ganking around the map to try get more kills than me. it got to the point to where he would ult into their entire team, get a double kill, die, and boast about how he had more kills than me in all chat. we still won (i started dicking around after i was pushing top with all five mia. they all came out of a bush so i ghosted into their fountain and nobody got hte kill) surprisingly but i love those little competitions

warwick guide is about half done, i just finished on the skill explanations so i still have to describe item builds, and how to play warwick
 
Still confused about how chatroom works, does people have to be online to keep it up?

Anyways, played a lot of Vayne recently and I don't know what to build her first. I always start of with Dblade and make my way to beserker's/mercury. I would then aim for bloodthirster and at that point I am lost to what I need. I know you should start getting sheen first, but the low damage output early game kinda puts me off. HALP ME FORUM
 
WotA looks pretty good on Vlad right now, lol. The number of remakes in the DreamHack qualifier was hilarious.

I play Shen, so Frozen Heart is really not an option for me when I tank. I get a Thornmail if there's a ranged DPS that enjoys harassing me on the other team, which is 95% of all games that have me playing Shen with a ranged DPS on the other team. Sunfire punishes melee DPS more than Thornmail does. =X
 
Really good guide Thorns.

I feel I've played enough Vayne now to say that she's pretty overhyped. Her range feels so short compared to other ranged AD characters. In spite of the fact that I always see Vaynes solo mid, she's really bad at it. Her most obvious harass, her q, commits her far too much. That, and the fact that in spite of it's advertisement as resetting your auto-attack is really can't be considered to do that; you can't attack until you've finished your roll so you aren't attacking faster at all.

Vayne can melt opponents if she pins them with her e. That's a pretty big if considering all the players I see using it badly, and frankly it's not easy to pin someone when laning in 5v5. She and Poppy do this MUCH better in 3v3; but only one of them has optimal stats for the Treeline.

Her ultimate really feels less noticeable than any other buff ult out there. And you wouldn't think that, what with the invisibility and all, but it's true. Even playing against Vayne the stealth didn't do anything the q normally couldn't... I knew which way she'd be going and I just had to follow her like when she ever rolls.

Don't get me wrong, the roll is a great move. But it's a pain in the ass too. Sometimes I'll q to attack someone and whiff on it because Vayne's range is awful. But the CD doesn't reset until I damage someone. I can see this being a balancing factor when running away, but if I'm not retreating it just feels shitty. They said the roll couldn't pass through walls not because of balance, but because it was hard for new Nidalee players to figure out which walls to leap through. Fuck that noise. Nidalee wall jumping is easy. Not getting fucking stuck on walls is a pain in the ass. I've died several times because I clipped into a wall.

At the end of the day, I feel she's balanced and is gonna be competing not with solo ranged carries like Ashe and Ezreal, but with the duo ranged characters like Caitlyn and Miss Fortune.
 
Well I suck with Vayne really don't get her at all, but I did notice in the matches on Sunday and Saturday that Vayne was either banned or picked every single game.

Btw anyone else watch some of those games? I saw about 10 I think. Salce whoever he is was pretty damn impressive in every single one of his matches. Thats what I remember most I think except for EG beating Solomid and CLG of course
 
any of you guys wanna help me get a little better at this game? I dont have a main champion yet and i just feel like im stagnant in any progress to actually getting better/decent at this game. item choice, positioning, etc.

my name on there is pookar
 
If anyones looking for a player to duo queue with in ranked or something feel free to hit me up! :)

AszyluM

I can play a pretty solid jungle Olaf/Noc/WW
 
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