B&W Research Thread

[breh]

Seeing how Camouflage apparently converts the user to Ground type, can moves like Mirror Type and Camouflage be Baton Passed?

I think it actually converts to normal type.

Speaking of which, which type does Camouflage convert to in online battles?

EDIT: Yes, you are correct; I thought people had only tested Nature power but Camouflage was tested at the same time, I guess

 

[133k]

I think it actually converts to normal type.

Speaking of which, which type does Camouflage convert to in online battles?

Ground type I believe; there was a discussion about this on Sawsbuck's thread.

 

[poccil]

It appears that the type gems do not affect Fire Pledge, Grass Pledge, or Water Pledge. It appears to be so in order to prevent the gems from triggering in case more than one ally is trying to use two or more of these moves. My description for Fire Pledge, for example, reads in part: "If at least one ally of the user is about to use Water Pledge or Grass Pledge this round ... this attack does nothing." Moreover, if Present would try to recover HP to the opponent (even if the opponent's HP is full), the Normal Gem will still trigger.

 

[DrDimentio]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but I just used Rock Blast (a multi-hit move) against a Pokemon with Cursed Body, which activated on the first hit, but after the activation message the attack continued the rest of its hits. I just thought that was strange and possibly worth noting.

 

[poccil]

poccil:

I was already aware of that. My Ability description has stated for a while now that Cursed Body's effect "doesn't stop any multi-hit attack in progress".

 

[callforjudgement]

Something happened to me in-game which contradicted what I'd been told about the mechanics (so it may have been a change from a previous game); in a wild double battle, I have Swanna and Litwick out, against some random enemies (I forget what, but they didn't have any ability, etc, that would matter). I select Brave Bird on Swanna and Will-O-Wisp on Litwick, targeting different enemies. Swanna goes first and OHKOs its target, and Litwick levels up from the resulting experience gain, learning Purgatory as a result; I choose to delete Will-O-Wisp as it has four moves already. Then on Litwick's turn, it uses Will-O-Wisp even though it is no longer in its moveset. (I'd been told that it'd use the new move on the same target in this case, in previous gens; I'm not sure how accurate that is, though, but if it is accurate, this is a change in mechanics.)

There are various potential interesting interactions with this that I haven't tested yet, especially involving Disable, Encore, Mimic, and Sketch (and perhaps also Transform). I might post back here later with details, unless someone else does first.

 

[Drachen]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but I just used Rock Blast (a multi-hit move) against a Pokemon with Cursed Body, which activated on the first hit, but after the activation message the attack continued the rest of its hits. I just thought that was strange and possibly worth noting.

i guess it kinda makes sence... the move hadnt finished yet... ergo it kept on attacking untill it was over... my guess would be if u tried using Rock Blast again it wouldnt let u use it because of the disable... but thats just me...
hope it helped tho...

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Something happened to me in-game which contradicted what I'd been told about the mechanics (so it may have been a change from a previous game); in a wild double battle, I have Swanna and Litwick out, against some random enemies (I forget what, but they didn't have any ability, etc, that would matter). I select Brave Bird on Swanna and Will-O-Wisp on Litwick, targeting different enemies. Swanna goes first and OHKOs its target, and Litwick levels up from the resulting experience gain, learning Purgatory as a result; I choose to delete Will-O-Wisp as it has four moves already. Then on Litwick's turn, it uses Will-O-Wisp even though it is no longer in its moveset. (I'd been told that it'd use the new move on the same target in this case, in previous gens; I'm not sure how accurate that is, though, but if it is accurate, this is a change in mechanics.)

Isn't that what is supposed to happen? Probably since the game stores in its memory that you selected Will-O-Wisp, ignoring that Litwick no longer has it.

(p.s. 1337th post woot)

 

[breh]

This is a simulator related question.

On PO, if you're taunted out of a status move while holding a Choice item, you can switch to an attack.

Does this happen ingame?

 

[Death Phenomeno]

After what happened to Spider Web + Baton Pass, I've got to ask:


Does Lock-On + Baton Pass still work?

 

[poccil]

Breludicolo:

If a Pokemon with a choice item is affected by Taunt after having chosen a non-damaging move (not status move; Me First is not disabled by Taunt even though it's a status move) then it can't choose any move for use and must therefore choose Struggle for use instead.

Also, Spider Web (as well as Mean Look and Block) is still passed to the new Pokemon when Baton Pass is used.

 

[IcyMan28]

Breludicolo:

If a Pokemon with a choice item is affected by Taunt after having chosen a non-damaging move (not status move; Me First is not disabled by Taunt even though it's a status move) then it can't choose any move for use and must therefore choose Struggle for use instead.

Also, Spider Web (as well as Mean Look and Block) is still passed to the new Pokemon when Baton Pass is used.

imgty's post implies otherwise, unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. I though Mean Look + Baton Pass no longer works?

 

[breh]

I think he's implying the reverse.

When you are Spider Webbed and then you Baton Pass, the new poke is still trapped.

At least, taht's my guess.

 

[SMZ]

I think this was the case in past gens too, but my Thick Fat Munchlax evolved into Immunity Snorlax in-game (the Munchlax wasn't relocated it was from the in-game trade).

Also on Transform and forms:
I can confirm Transform copies forms as well, I tried it with Rotom-W and Rotom-F and Ditto transforming into them, I wanted to make sure it copied the forms' stats too not the original form, so I did a speed test:
Rotom (regular form): 130
Rotom-A: 124
Reshiram: 128

If transform copies forms and its stats correctly, Reshiram should outrun Rotom-A rather than be outrun by Rotom (if it copied regular form stats), and by testing in a double battle Reshiram went first, meaning Transform copies the form and the stats of that alternate form.

Also, on trivia information transform also copies shininess the of a Pokemon (it copied the shininess of my Toxicroak).

 

[poccil]

SMZ:

The alternate form's stats are copied because the alternate form began with the stats corresponding to that form rather than to its original form. However, it is actually incorrect, in generation 5, to say that Transform "copies" the other Pokemon's "Shininess" and form, as effects that would check those attributes check the original form, not those of the opponent.

Such is the case, for example, with Illusion: the bearer of Illusion, as it becomes active, has only "all attributes necessary to make it appear as though it were the last listed ... Pokémon" controlled by its owner. Illusion doesn't "copy" any attributes of the latter Pokémon, but the bearer of Illusion has only its appearance: effects still check the actual attributes of Illusion's bearer.

The same applies to Transform. After Transform is used, the user has "all attributes necessary to make it appear as though it were" the opponent, whereby here, however, certain things about the opponent are copied and become the user's, namely the opponent's "Attack, Defense, Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defense stats; types; moves; weight; Ability; and stat stages". Note that form and "Shininess" are absent: this suggests that both are part of the opponent's "appearance" and are not checked by any effects.

 

[breh]

well, more PO related stuff:

if taunt is used on non-attacking moves, does the pp go down?

 

[poccil]

Breludicolo:

No. Since non-damaging moves are effectively disabled by Taunt, they are prevented from being used when the opponent tries to use them, and a move that's prevented from being used doesn't lose PP.

 

[SMZ]

poccil I'm not sure I understood you fully but here are some points:
- It might obvious it copies the forms stats yes, but some "obvious" things have been proven otherwise, so no harm in testing.
- I tested the stats, because I thought of the possibility transform copies only the APPEARANCE of the form; but since moves are copied others traits must be copied, again it was just to make sure.
- What did you mean by the shininess thing? shininess has no effect besides appearance, so Ditto taking that appearance or copying its shininess is kind of irrelevant since Ditto is transformed, and appears as the shiny x.

 

[poccil]

SMZ:

You used the word "shininess" yourself. I took it to mean "whether a Pokemon is Shiny". You are also correct in that no known effects (of moves, items, or Abilities) check whether a Pokemon is Shiny.

 

[sporeing]

Thunder now hits only one Pokemon on 2 vs 2. I tested it, could somebody confirm this?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Hasn't it always been a single-target move?

Also...

I think this was the case in past gens too, but my Thick Fat Munchlax evolved into Immunity Snorlax in-game (the Munchlax wasn't relocated it was from the in-game trade).

WTF.

 

[sporeing]

Hasn't it always been a single-target move?

Has it? I don't quite remember. I remember it hitting 2 Pokemon back then.

 

[alphatron]

Not sure if this has been said yet, but:

When using protect/detect/etc. against memento, the move is blocked entirely and DOES NOT faint the user of the pokemon. I say this because pokemon online says otherwise, as you'll faint when protect is used against your memento.

 

[Chinese Dood]

I confirm that Memento does not faint user anymore when the move fails. I was a bit surprised by that when I was in Battle Subway using an Uxie to memento on an opponent's Froslass that had some evasion boost, causing Memento to fail and Uxie to remain alive. So for me it was a failed Memento due to evasion and not protect/detect.

Thunder has always been a single-target move.

Also in Battle Subway, I found out recently that Ghost Curse now works through Substitute. (My Suicune had a sub up, and Golurk used Curse which succeeded and halved its HP while taking a quarter out of Suicune.)

EDIT: Also not sure if this was worthy to note:
"Confirmed Frost Breath and Storm Throw will result in a critical hit every time." - Except when the move is used on a Shell Armor / Battle Armor pokemon (and probably when Lucky Chant is in play). I've only unintentionally tested this for a Battle Armor Drapion though. Neither Frost Breath nor Storm Throw resulted in critical hit on Battle Armor Drapion in Battle Subway.

 

[poccil]

According to my own tests, however, Memento will still cause fainting if the opponent's Attack and Special Attack stat stages can't be changed with Memento. My description for this move now reads:

"Decreases opponent's Attack and Special Attack by 2 stages. Even if the opponent's Attack and Special Attack stat stages weren't changed by this effect, the user faints unless there is no target or this attack is avoided by the opponent."