When we get to a metagame where there are no suspects, then bam, mission accomplished, Pokemon is fun again and we can stop complaining. What you are suggesting is that immediately upon reaching this homeostasis, we ruin it to satisfy your curiosity.
Do you really think Luvdisc, Beartic, and Armaldo will ruin balance in the metagame? Keep in mind you've already flip-flopped on the Floatzel argument (shown below)
Which is where 99% of these "bring shit down from Ubers" arguments fall apart: they fail to justify themselves with tangible benefits.
Tangible benefits? 1)Increased variety in the metagame and 2)a return to banning broken elements in the metagame instead of nerfing, or what used to be called standard procedure. 3)No precedent for ridiculous combo bans (SB+Blaziken) and 4)removing an emergency measure that by that time will have served its purpose.
When you want something down from Ubers, you don't just guilt trip the dissenting community for not wanting to do it and expect that your superior logic will cause us to see the light.
I'm not guilt tripping anybody and the
community's not dissenting the opinion, you're
dissenting it while everybody else is debating it. I pointed out how some people, like you, refuse to entertain the fact that somebody who disagrees with you might have a point where as others (like Pwnemon) actually debate our ideas for what they're worth.
JT's been doing that for the past three suspect threads and nobody bought it. You give us the brasstacks. For instance, why do we want to put more power behind the most powerful weather effect in OU? Why do we care enough about Swift Swim Luvdisc and Lumineon to bring them back to the tier?
I'm not JT, if Rain is the most powerful weather effect then why is Sand used twice as often, and Swift Swim Luvdisc and Lumineon aren't broken, never went through a proper test, and were banned because Kingdra and two buddies were too powerful. We don't care about strands of data, we care about following and enacting policy that gets to the root of the problem instead of a blanket ban over a general characteristic that some broken pokemon have.
The answer right now is that we don't. Even if you tell us Luvdisc is not broken and that we don't know whether or not something like Floatzel is broken,
Didn't you say...
I wasn't taking you or your proposal seriously before you said this, but now I'm absolutely convinced your cause has no merit. You're telling me something with 105 base Att, 115 base Speed, double STAB on one of the best offensive types in the game, double Speed, and a good enough movepool to get past every wall or bulky offensive mon in the tier isn't going to be broken if we let it back?
And you said my argument was falling apart.
that's no incentive to take the risk and disrupt the balance, or furthermore, complicate the ruleset to include Swift Swimmers that are not broken. For one, that's going to take time. Months and months and months of time, for something relatively unimportant that has no real argumentative basis besides the moral equivalent of "innocent until proven guilty."
Months? I'm pretty sure we don't need a month to see if Lumineon is broken. And the ruleset wouldn't be complicated at all. We would have Suspects, and decide from there. We pick the swift swimmers we know to be overpowered and test the immediate threats, the rest can come in. Some will need testing, Gorebyss/Huntail/possibly Ludicolo or Kabutops on their own, but I'm pretty sure we know Kingdra can be autobanned and some aren't broken at all.
You said yourself Drizzle was broken earlier and I agreed with you. Now you're telling me, for some inane reason, that you want to test each and every individual Swift Swimmer under Drizzle to see if they're broken.
Stop twisting my words. I said individual. You're adding in each and every, which I didn't say at all. And even though Drizzle is broken, it's not as if it's getting banned anytime soon or getting any substantial boost from having Beartic in OU. Let Swift Swimmers down that wouldn't break OU, that was my plan.
On what planet does this make sense? You're not even giving yourself a reason for wanting this, other than sheer, oddly misplaced curiosity that won't benefit anyone in the long run but you and the few other people who want to sweep with Qwilfish for a day to to prove a point.
You're just ranting here...
Drizzle, as it is, is very dominant in this metagame, and considered by a lot of people to be broken. In the event that it isn't banned, this problem will not absolve, but rather exacerbate; even if we reduce our list of Swift Swimmers to Qwilfish and Seismitoad, they're inevitably going to give the players something to complain about.
A lot of people think Excadrill's broken, what's your point?
And once again, if Drizzle, as it is, leaves OU, then this issue becomes entirely irrelevant.
It would at that hypothetical, imaginary point.
Either way, there are less than zero tangible benefits to your proposal; the only way this can go is down.
I proved this statement wrong earlier
We're going to bitch for another few months about how even the outclassed/theoretically bad Swift Swimmers are on every team and establishing dominance when we could have left the Swift Swim chapter closed on something we decided a long time ago.
Establishing dominance? Don't tell me your team is Luvdisc weak.
Sounds good to me actually. All you need is the overwhelming support of the voting populace who wanted these Pokemon banned in the first place.
I don't remember the vote on Luvdisc, do you?
Just make sure you get around to explicitly describing a reason for us wanting to do this at all.
I did, others have elaborated on it, and you decided to ignore it and rant while other people who share your side of the debate decided to contribute coherent and logical input into the discussion.