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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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How much does grass knot do to camperupt? I mean it is a gaint mountain camel, so even neutral damage will hit hard. If it atleast 2HKOs, grass knot has much more utility.
Camerupt is awful. If you're looking for a thundurus counter use this.
Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Or Specskou, or any raikou really. It can't ohko with a +2 Focus Blast after you use Calm Mind (68.6-80.8 from Life Orb +2 Focus Blast, which requires they predict the switch in, are running a LO set with is less common than leftovers, and they hit the focus blast), and a +1 Thunderbolt (from either CM or Specs) does 85.6% min, which is more than enough to ko after sr. An unboosted Thunderbolt does 57% min, which is a guaranteed ko after 2 rounds of stealth rock.
Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Or Specskou, or any raikou really. It can't ohko with a +2 Focus Blast after you use Calm Mind (68.6-80.8 from Life Orb +2 Focus Blast, which requires they predict the switch in, are running a LO set with is less common than leftovers, and they hit the focus blast), and a +1 Thunderbolt (from either CM or Specs) does 85.6% min, which is more than enough to ko after sr. An unboosted Thunderbolt does 57% min, which is a guaranteed ko after 2 rounds of stealth rock.
Speaking of which, how do Raikou fare in OU besides countering Thunderous?
Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Latios, Reuniclus, and Excadrill make it a tough fight, I would think.
I've had alot of trouble with thundurus until I started running ice beam Gastrodon. Unless they have knotplot, Gastrodon is a solid counter if EV'd correctly. Grass knot won't KO without plot (and I've only seen like 1 or 2 grass knoters) and ice beam + LO recoil + SR with KO back. With calm, 252 / 120 or something grass knot will not OHKO after SR. Gastro also wrecks rain teams when paired with a Scizor to beat Ferro and Tornadus
EDIT: I gave raikou a spin and it's actually pretty cool once you can weaken ttar and ferro (which is generally not too difficult). It's a shame you can't run timid aura sphere because that would rock.
I've had alot of trouble with thundurus until I started running ice beam Gastrodon. Unless they have knotplot, Gastrodon is a solid counter if EV'd correctly. Grass knot won't KO without plot (and I've only seen like 1 or 2 grass knoters) and ice beam + LO recoil + SR with KO back. With calm, 252 / 120 or something grass knot will not OHKO after SR. Gastro also wrecks rain teams when paired with a Scizor to beat Ferro and Tornadus
EDIT: I gave raikou a spin and it's actually pretty cool once you can weaken ttar and ferro (which is generally not too difficult). It's a shame you can't run timid aura sphere because that would rock.
How do you guys think a specially defensive Rhyperior would fare in this metagame?
A Rhyperior with a 252/252 Hp/SDef spread with a Careful nature can survive a +2 LO FB from Thundurus and ko back with Rock Slide!
Here is the damage output:
718 Atk vs 343 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 351 - 414 (80.88% - 95.39%).
So he never gets ohkoed even after SR and koes back 90% of the time(Rock Slide's accuracy).In sand of 'course!
In case sand isn't up,Rhyperior easily counters FB-less varinats.Here are the calcs from a +2 LO HP Ice from thnudurs:
718 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (70 Base Power): 306 - 361 (70.51% - 83.18%)
Also this Rhyperior can take on the common Tornadus set.Here is the damage that it takes from a LO Focus Blast and Hurricane respectively:
359 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 264 - 312 (60.83% - 71.89%)
359 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 132 - 156 (30.41% - 35.94%)
So the minimum damage that can be done is 91,24% and the maximum is 107,83%.SR and lefties are ignored 'cause they cancel each other...In case SR isn't up the maximun damage that Rhyperior will take is reduced to 101,5%!
Factor in FB's accuracy and you will find that in 80% of the time Rhyperior will come out in top!
If you ask me why use Rhyperior over Jirachi i will answer you 2 things:
First of all Jirachi has still a pretty good chance of getting killed by a +2 Thunder in sandstorm while it cannot ohko back.Which means that if Jirachi's Body Slam doesn't paralyze then you are screwd.
The second thing is of 'course that these 2 pokes have compltely different typing which makes quite the difference...
Finally with Megahorn in the moveset Rhyperior makes for a very good Reuniclus counter.He 2hkoes with Megahorn while standart CM Reuniclus does this amount under sandstorm at +1:
429 Atk vs 343 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 211 - 249 (48.62% - 57.37%)
Also here is the damage that the same Reuniclus does at +1 against the same Rhyperior without sand up:
429 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 313 - 370 (72.12% - 85.25%)
So the point is that Rhyperior can always switch into Reuniclus and 2hko him while Reuniclus never ohkoes back!
What do you guys think of this set i mentioned with this moveset:EQ,Rock Slide,Megahorn,SR and Lefotvers as the item!Rock slide over SE 'cause it already ohkoes Tornadus and Thunurus and Salamence also so no need to rely on SE's shitty accuracy and pp.Can it fit into the meta and what other threats will it be good against?
A Rhyperior with a 252/252 Hp/SDef spread with a Careful nature can survive a +2 LO FB from Thundurus and ko back with Rock Slide!
Here is the damage output:
718 Atk vs 343 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 351 - 414 (80.88% - 95.39%).
So he never gets ohkoed even after SR and koes back 90% of the time(Rock Slide's accuracy).In sand of 'course!
In case sand isn't up,Rhyperior easily counters FB-less varinats.Here are the calcs from a +2 LO HP Ice from thnudurs:
718 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (70 Base Power): 306 - 361 (70.51% - 83.18%)
Also this Rhyperior can take on the common Tornadus set.Here is the damage that it takes from a LO Focus Blast and Hurricane respectively:
359 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 264 - 312 (60.83% - 71.89%)
359 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 132 - 156 (30.41% - 35.94%)
So the minimum damage that can be done is 91,24% and the maximum is 107,83%.SR and lefties are ignored 'cause they cancel each other...In case SR isn't up the maximun damage that Rhyperior will take is reduced to 101,5%!
Factor in FB's accuracy and you will find that in 80% of the time Rhyperior will come out in top!
If you ask me why use Rhyperior over Jirachi i will answer you 2 things:
First of all Jirachi has still a pretty good chance of getting killed by a +2 Thunder in sandstorm while it cannot ohko back.Which means that if Jirachi's Body Slam doesn't paralyze then you are screwd.
The second thing is of 'course that these 2 pokes have compltely different typing which makes quite the difference...
Finally with Megahorn in the moveset Rhyperior makes for a very good Reuniclus counter.He 2hkoes with Megahorn while standart CM Reuniclus does this amount under sandstorm at +1:
429 Atk vs 343 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 211 - 249 (48.62% - 57.37%)
Also here is the damage that the same Reuniclus does at +1 against the same Rhyperior without sand up:
429 Atk vs 229 Def & 434 HP (120 Base Power): 313 - 370 (72.12% - 85.25%)
So the point is that Rhyperior can always switch into Reuniclus and 2hko him while Reuniclus never ohkoes back!
What do you guys think of this set i mentioned with this moveset:EQ,Rock Slide,Megahorn,SR and Lefotvers as the item!Rock slide over SE 'cause it already ohkoes Tornadus and Thunurus and Salamence also so no need to rely on SE's shitty accuracy and pp.Can it fit into the meta and what other threats will it be good against?
Yea that set has a niche i guess, but there is no way it 2hkos bulky cm rank with a non-stab megahorn coming off a specially defensive spread. It would get wrecked by the occasional grass knot Thundurus though. Imo just run exca or a scarfer rather than discovering random niche pokes to deal with Thundurus defensively.
edit: Rhy would be good against moth also
True!!!Rhyperior also wrecks Volcarona so that's another plus!
Also don't forget that Ryperior has a monstrous 140 attack stat and megahorn has 120 base power.So it is like Tyranitar is using Crunch but even stronger!
Here is the damage Rhyperior does against standart Reuniclus with Megahorn:
317 Atk vs 273 Def & 424 HP (120 Base Power): 202 - 238 (47.64% - 56.13%)
So it 2hkoes around 40 of the time with leftovers factored in.I guess you could always put some evs in attack to ensure the 2hko since the max S.Def evs don't accomplish anything specific iirc.
This rhyperior also handles very well most gengars,heatrans,body slam-less jirachis and dragon dancers weak to rock like Salamence and Dragonite!
I totally agree, Raikou is an awesome pokemon in BW. Raikou in general is an amazing check to the genies, because he's got the typing AND bulk to take on their STAB moves and OHKO with ease.
alexwolf, some of your calcs are actually wrong since you forgot to account for solid rock. in fact, +1 focus blast from bulky reuniclus wont actually 2hko rhyperior, inflicting a maximum of 44%
also, rhyperior has a 16% chance to 2hko bulky reuniclus with megahorn assuming it has leftovers. without leftovers, reuniclus will go down 75% of the time
also, rhyperior has a 16% chance to 2hko bulky reuniclus with megahorn assuming it has leftovers. without leftovers, reuniclus will go down 75% of the time
With 44 Atk EVs, Rhyperior can 2HKO the bulkiest Reunicles with Leftovers 50% of the time.
Although it loses some bulk, it still survives that +2 LO Focus Blast from Thunduurs and Reunicles under sandstorm. The one real issue is that it is redundant with Ttar (2 slow Rock Tanks).
Although it loses some bulk, it still survives that +2 LO Focus Blast from Thunduurs and Reunicles under sandstorm. The one real issue is that it is redundant with Ttar (2 slow Rock Tanks).
Ah yes you are right!But the calcs for the genies are correct!
I just forgot to account for sollid rock against Reuniclus which as you said does 44% max at +1!Thx for the correction!
You are kind of right but i don't really know....
I mean Rhyperior has this valuable ground typing and both pokes generally check different pokes so i am not really sure if they are reduntant...But the sure thing is that with those 2 the general speed level of the team goes very low...
Scarftar it is, then.
Hmm yeah, would Scarftar be any good?
Hmm yeah, would Scarftar be any good?
Sorry that I didn't reply to this earlier. Raikou is a very good late game sweeper. If it gets a calm mind or two and their ferrothorn, ttar, and exca are weakened then it can rip through most teams. 115 speed outruns almost everything in this meta.
It is also a Tornadus counter, making it the only or one of the only offensive counters to both genies (it can revenge landbro too).
Outside switching into the genies and hp icicing random stuff it doesn't really do much until it wants to start setting up but it really is a great sweeper.
adding on: and alternative spread of 128 Def / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd means it always lives no attack SpD rachi's body slam, so it becomes set up bait, and you don't have to give up too much offense to get it.
*cough* I'vebeenusingthateversincetworoundsago *cough*
Raikou is a great Thundurus counter, while it can pretty much set up on most bulky Waters. If Tyranitar is gone, watch out for this beast. The only minor problem I have with it is that Thundurus can still pull off an annoying priority Thunder Wave on it, which really screws you up. I cannot wait for Volt Absorb Raikou o_0
Ya, once Volt Absorb is released Raikou will definately be a lot better. In the rain Raikou and Gyarados are a really great combo. It works like the Jolton/Gyarados combo did in DPP except Raikou can actually set up, and abusing Thunder is awesome.
Wow, that's impressive. Was Blaze active or no?
scarftar is still solid, it does its role well which is keeping things like gengar/lati@s in check and I guess now revenging thundurus. you shouldnt except much more out of it. its also pretty good as a lead if your other opponent has a ttar as chances are they will lead with it and eat a superpower without trying to scout it (ppl on ladder are dumb).
also I have tried ape this meta its pretty hard to fit him on a team, he always sounds good on paper but always fails in battle. Scarftar/nape can still be a good combo as it gets rid of most things that give nape trouble but I havent made much effort on making that kind of team this gen.
ps I hate mole because it makes making an offensive team hard to build without some kind of defensive core to fallback on so he doesnt outspeed all your sweepers :(...still dont know if hes uber material or not only been playing this meta for a week or so
... and to revenge anything without boosts/slower things with one boost. And to hit like a small truck! I use Scarftar, and it is really, really good outside of beating Thundurus and lati@s.
Yeh scarftar is goods at handling gengar the lati twins and the genies the only problem is half of The time stone miss misses and half your team gets swept by thundurus. I'm running stone edge crunch superpower and eq but I could use ice punch for insurance against thundurus however it's pretty redundant against everything else but dragons and Gliscor and thundurus is hopefully goingto be banned soon.
Does anyone know How much jolly scarftar crunch does to thundurus?
Does anyone know How much jolly scarftar crunch does to thundurus?
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