Rarely Used (RU) Tier

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I was just going with maximum physical bulk in case you run into such a thing. Keep in mind I was using the set you posted and not any other moves. I also left out the Super Luck Critical Hit with night slash.

I will say this though, if you want to use that Absol use it as a lead because the odds of you getting a +2 on anything other than a switch or wall is slim since Absol has wafer thin defenses.
 
Know who's better than Absol?

Golurk. Why don't people use him more? I mean, I'm not complaining, because he's like the MVP of my main RU team and not many people know how to handle him, but still.
 
Know who's better than Absol?

Golurk. Why don't people use him more? I mean, I'm not complaining, because he's like the MVP of my main RU team and not many people know how to handle him, but still.

I remember using Golurk in the OU testing, and after that was cleared, UU testing. Even with the slim pickings of ghost-types in RU, I found Golurk to be a great spin-blocker that also has a powerful physical offense. 89/80/80 isn't bad neutral bulk, and 124 Physical Stat is really good, especially when augmented by Iron Fist. His Ghost/Ground typing gives him three immunities, Normal, Fighting, and Electric, and he has a very valuable resist against Rock and a less valuable resist against bug (and a double resist against poison, of what note that is)

However, in my experience, the trouble with Golurk isn't it's speed, which is a a workable 55, but its typing. While its Ghost/Ground typing gives it three immunities, it carries a whopping five weaknesses. Both the Ghost and Dark weakness makes it open to many assorted nasty priority attacks found in this tier, like Gallade's Shadow Sneak and Honchkrow's Sucker Punch. The water weakness is actually really, really bad for spin-blocking duty, as Blastoise is still popular (though if it gets kicked upstairs to UU, it will make this segment of Golurk's duty a lot easier). The Ice Weakness can lead to some rude surprises as well, with the popularity of Ice Punch and Ice Beam still kicking around in RU. Finally, the grass weakness was a problem since mega drain and grass knot are still popular enough to deal with a certain monster of a Ground/Rock type. With neutral bulk, it can resist neutral attacks, and even STAB neutral attacks, but super effective attacks can bring it down hard, unless you really beef up the bulk.

That said, I think if a few pokemon get kicked upstairs, like Rhyperior or Blastoise, Golurk will find a much safer metagame to play around in. Just curious though, Xephyr, what kind of Golurk set do you prefer to run? I've always been keen on the SubPunch sets, due to the fact that Golurk's typing tends to scare off pokemon, and draw in pokemon that can counter it. Getting a substitute up is great for stopping priority, or if you can make a good prediction, rewarding a switch-in with a Focus Punch can ruin someone's day.
 
I remember using Golurk in the OU testing, and after that was cleared, UU testing. Even with the slim pickings of ghost-types in RU, I found Golurk to be a great spin-blocker that also has a powerful physical offense. 89/80/80 isn't bad neutral bulk, and 124 Physical Stat is really good, especially when augmented by Iron Fist. His Ghost/Ground typing gives him three immunities, Normal, Fighting, and Electric, and he has a very valuable resist against Rock and a less valuable resist against bug (and a double resist against poison, of what note that is)

However, in my experience, the trouble with Golurk isn't it's speed, which is a a workable 55, but its typing. While its Ghost/Ground typing gives it three immunities, it carries a whopping five weaknesses. Both the Ghost and Dark weakness makes it open to many assorted nasty priority attacks found in this tier, like Gallade's Shadow Sneak and Honchkrow's Sucker Punch. The water weakness is actually really, really bad for spin-blocking duty, as Blastoise is still popular (though if it gets kicked upstairs to UU, it will make this segment of Golurk's duty a lot easier). The Ice Weakness can lead to some rude surprises as well, with the popularity of Ice Punch and Ice Beam still kicking around in RU. Finally, the grass weakness was a problem since mega drain and grass knot are still popular enough to deal with a certain monster of a Ground/Rock type. With neutral bulk, it can resist neutral attacks, and even STAB neutral attacks, but super effective attacks can bring it down hard, unless you really beef up the bulk.

That said, I think if a few pokemon get kicked upstairs, like Rhyperior or Blastoise, Golurk will find a much safer metagame to play around in. Just curious though, Xephyr, what kind of Golurk set do you prefer to run? I've always been keen on the SubPunch sets, due to the fact that Golurk's typing tends to scare off pokemon, and draw in pokemon that can counter it. Getting a substitute up is great for stopping priority, or if you can make a good prediction, rewarding a switch-in with a Focus Punch can ruin someone's day.

Also, Golurk suffers from the fact that its most powerful physical Ghost STAB has a base power of 60 (though Iron Fist raises that to 72, which still isn't that good) though at least Earthquake has a base power of 100. Golurk's defenses aren't that amazing, 89/80/80 defenses aren't exactly great compared to 58/145/105 (Cofagrigus) or 48/135/135 (Dusknoir), but it's still pretty decent. However, what sets Golurk apart from other spinblockers is that it can actually do quite a bit of direct damage with 124 base Attack, as opposed to Dusknoir who usually has to rely on Seismic Toss or Cofagrigus who has 95 base special attack.
 
I love CB Golurk and have been meaning to try out Rock Polish. He'd be even better if he got Shadow Sneak though, arg.

Wouldn't a fast Golurk be a good switch to Rhyperior? He shrugs off Stone Edge, Megahorn, and Hammer Arm, then can just EQ it or Sub if it tries to set up.
 
kniteowl;3672483EDIT: said:
absol also gets Zen Headbutt, hits 10BP harder then Psycho Cut but at 90% accuracy

25% crit chance > slightly more powerful attack that can miss IMO, and most others probably think that way as well.
 
Also, Golurk suffers from the fact that its most powerful physical Ghost STAB has a base power of 60 (though Iron Fist raises that to 72, which still isn't that good) though at least Earthquake has a base power of 100. Golurk's defenses aren't that amazing, 89/80/80 defenses aren't exactly great compared to 58/145/105 (Cofagrigus) or 48/135/135 (Dusknoir), but it's still pretty decent. However, what sets Golurk apart from other spinblockers is that it can actually do quite a bit of direct damage with 124 base Attack, as opposed to Dusknoir who usually has to rely on Seismic Toss or Cofagrigus who has 95 base special attack.

That's part of the reason I stuck with Golurk over Dusknoir. Like you said, Shadow Punch is a mediocre STAB for Golurk, though I will note, while 72 Base power isn't great, it makes it the strongest physical Ghost attack, with the exception of Shadow Force. STAB makes that 108 base power. Leftovers Golurk can take off 48.6% - 57.2% on a Calm Mind Cresselia, and if for some reason you want to slap a life orb on him, 62.6% - 74.3% with Shadow Punch, just to use as a baseline for the kind of power that Golurk carries. But fortunately, while I do believe Golurk's typing is poor defensively, I believe it is great offensively. You also get Earthquake as a STAB, which takes a 100 base power attack and turns it into a whopping base power of 150.

That said, I think Focus Punch is a great choice for Golurk. The lack of STAB is somewhat compensated by Iron Fist, which stacks with it. 150 Base turns into a comfortable 180 Base Power with face-tearing results. Ghost/Fighting also gives it good coverage; with ground providing a comfortable stab.

That said, Golurk is most effective when being dropped into a pokemon that can't do much with it, and encouraging a switch into a pokemon that can handle it more effectively. The two big sets I often see are Rock Polish and SubPuncher, who both benefit greatly from that switch out. Rock Polish can take a max speed EV Adamant Golurk to a solid 418 speed, allowing it to outrun anything Scarfed with less than 78 base speed. I prefer SubPunch over Rock Polish, however, due to the fact that certain priority attacks, such as Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, and Shadow Sneak, are super effective against Golurk, and as you pointed out, it's bulk is nothing to brag about.

Now, once we get DW Golurk, the entire ballpark changes once we get a No Guard ghost type with Dynamic Punch, Stone Edge, Rock Polish, and Earthquake. Give it a priority attack, and we have our Ghost-type Machamp.

-Jesus-

I love CB Golurk and have been meaning to try out Rock Polish. He'd be even better if he got Shadow Sneak though, arg.

Wouldn't a fast Golurk be a good switch to Rhyperior? He shrugs off Stone Edge, Megahorn, and Hammer Arm, then can just EQ it or Sub if it tries to set up.

Kiiinda. I played around with CB Golurk, and while he is stealth rock resist, allowing him to switch in a lot, that set was a little to high-level for dumb old me. The hard part is predicting the switch in, if it exists, and because Golurk is fairly unknown, he is like Eelektross in that people underestimate him. Which makes predicting opponent hard, at least for me.

As for dealing with Rhyperior, it varies. If it has Stone Edge, Megahorn, and Hammer Arm, great! SubPunch Golurk takes 29.8% - 35.3% from Stone Edge off the physical attacker set, and forces Rhyperior out. The problem is that Golurk can 2HKO Rhyperior, and if that Rhyperior has Earthquake. The same set, using Earthquake, hits Golurk for 59.9% - 70.7%, which puts Golurk in the 2HKO range. While it is faster than Rhyperior, switching into a resisted attack is risky for the giant robot pokemon. I find that it is perfect to punish choice pokemon, such as those damned electric and bug types running around.

As an added bonus, it is immune to Thunder Wave. Take -that- you freaking walls.
 
I think people forgot about amomola and it's walling capabilities. I pare it up with Amoongus and it does well. The only problem I have with that are specs fire users. and yanmega...
 
Alomomola is definitely a good Wish-passer and general bulky Water. However, people look to things like Cresselia and Munchlax for their walling needs. Munchlax can stake the claim of having to be 4HKO'd by SpecsMega's Bug Buzz (assuming no crits or Sp. Defense drops).
 
What's the standard set for Munchlax that people run? I've seen Body Slam/Whirlwind/Rest/Sleep Talk mostly, but are there any other effective sets?
 
My favorite Golurk set is a simple tank. Shadow Punch/Earthquake/Hammer Arm/Toxic. Yeah, I know ground and fighting gives pretty redundant coverage, but both are fairly useful in their own right.
 
Set Name: Pain Stall Lvl 2
Probopass: @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs, & IVs: 0, & 0.
Nature: (+ SpA, -Spe)

~Magic Coat
~Pain Split
~Protect / Toxic
~Torment / Taunt

Original Link + Info http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79418


With less Steels in RU, Probopass has a better chance of success in this tier bar-none. It may be good to peak at how effective it is.

Aaaah. This little gremlin. Well, other than the prediction issues, the stall game is made somewhat more difficult by the lack of Sand Stream in RU. Leftovers can help with Hail Stall, so it can pair well with Snover. Of the threats in RU... Cinccino is probably the best counter, with it's technican and deep enjoyment of multi-hit attacks. Hariyama is another great choice, with both bullet punch and fake out to give it the one-two combo. Substitute is moderately common in this tier still, and once you flinch-hax it, you can bring it down.

On the other hand, it can't possibly be as annoying as those damned lvl 1 Smergles.
 
What's the standard set for Munchlax that people run? I've seen Body Slam/Whirlwind/Rest/Sleep Talk mostly, but are there any other effective sets?

Maybe you have been playing me a lot. Because I haven't met a single person that uses a Sleep Talk Munchlax, apart from me. It is his most effective set I have found because the other set that was posted has no recovery at all which means he dies pretty easily. Plus Whirlwind and Body Slam are all the moves it needs to function, it's just keeping him alive that's the hard part.

@ Fairwell: There is no permanent Sandstorm in RU so that will have to be provided, along with all the other team support that goes with FEAR and psuedo FEAR strategies. Come to think of it, it could be pretty damn scary to see the enemy set up an 8 turn sandstorm and somehow get Probopass in unharmed... 0___0
 
My real question is when we will get our own separate RU subforum. After 50 pages, I think we should start looking at treating RU as a serious third tier. Or fourth tier, depending on what you treat Ubers.
 
@No Luck
I'm pretty sure other people than you use that Muchlax, but I know we've played a few times. I'm "musical hobo" on PO. It's a shame Munchlax didn't get Wish, it would make both it and Snorlax highly more usable.

@Jhang
We'll get our own subsection eventually. UU hasn't even settled out entirely, which means that none of the lower tiers have either.
 
@ Skwog: Yeah Munchlax would be insanely good with Wish. Although RestTalk lets him counter Sleep Powder Quiver Dancers so it actually works quite well with him. Oh and I use Moar Recoil Plz for testing ideas and stuff so that's somehow became my usual alt. I have honestly never met a Munchlax never mind a RestTalking one. Wierd :/

Btw were you oodles #1 on the ladder?
 
@ Skwog: Yeah Munchlax would be insanely good with Wish. Although RestTalk lets him counter Sleep Powder Quiver Dancers so it actually works quite well with him. Oh and I use Moar Recoil Plz for testing ideas and stuff so that's somehow became my usual alt. I have honestly never met a Munchlax never mind a RestTalking one. Wierd :/

Btw were you oodles #1 on the ladder?

Nope, I wasn't oodles. Just musical hobo. oodles had a kickass team though, I had a hard time dealing with it. His SD Sucker Punch Shiftry was very anti-meta when he was active.
 
I used that Munchlax extensively too as No Luck knows ;)
And it literally walls every special attacker to Hell and back.
 
I've done the numbers, and yeah, Munchlax can wall like hell with special attacks. I am just curious what does the knock-back look like for Body Slam and Rock Slide, in terms of damage? Likewise, is a Curselax set viable with Munchlax in this tier?
 
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