Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)

Status
Not open for further replies.
massive post coming through
MaestroXXVI said:
The idea of Eccentric Ditto got me to thinking how Transform could be used in today’s metagame. I originally started out with a Scarfed Mew, but quickly realized that the pokemon I wanted to Trick a Scarf onto were be much different than the pokemon I wanted to Transform into. From there, I got to thinking of how Transform replaces all of the user’s stat bonuses with those of its opponent, and tried to use that to my advantage. Thus, White Herb Mew was born.

Mew @ White Herb
Synchronize | Hasty (+Spd, -Def)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd (HP Fire)
- Transform
- Overheat
- Superpower
- Trick

Part of the reason why I chose Overheat and Superpower, beyond the fact that both provide a use for the White Herb, is that each is super-effective against one of the types that Mew would normally be susceptible to. Working this set into a Sun team means Overheat hits even stronger than an SE Psychic, and Superpower hits just as hard as Psyshock while providing similar coverage. More importantly, since the two attacks work off opposite sides of the spectrum, I can use up to three insanely powerful attacks without any drawbacks (White Herb the first attack’s stat drop, then use each one once) before Tricking and Transforming to completely steal my opponent’s identity.

HP Fire IVs mean I lose the speed tie with other max speed base 100s, but that’s a moot point once I Transform – I keep my own IVs, but Transform simply copies the opponent’s raw stats, so my own IVs aren’t taken into account. My IVs are taken into account when calculating my HP type, and since I’m expecting the Sun to be out as much as possible, Fire is the safest choice.

On an unrelated note, there is no better feeling in the world than Transforming into a Heatran in time to receive a Flash Fire boost.
Click to expand...
I like this idea and I might try it out, but Taunt + WoW Mew already pretty much destroys teams already.

PI-Dimension said:
Cloyster @ King's Rock
SKILL LINK
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell

With King's Rock, Icicle Spear has a 41% flinch chance.
Click to expand...
Meh, I like to see creative sets that have something really creative, rather than "slap on a different item and call it a day".
Also, the 41% flinch chance basically means a 41% chance to hit for 2x damage. A Life Orb means a 100% chance to hit for 1.3x damage.

I'll calculate the average damage for each.
With a King's Rock,
0.41 (41% chance) * 2 (twice as much damage) + 0.59 (59% chance to hit with...) * 1 (normal damage) = 1.41 the base power of that move without the boosting item.

With the Life Orb,
1.00 (100% chance) * 1.3 (the LO boost) = 1.3 (lol) which is actually less than the average damage potential with King's Rock (1.41).
So King's Rock WILL hit harder on average, not even taking into account the possibility of flinching more than once. However, Life Orb is often the preferred item simply because you can rely on it to get the kills 100% of the time. (or rather as often as the move will hit :X)

/math

Z-rex said:
Breloom @ toxic orb
252atk/252HP Adamant
Trait: poison heal

-Sword dance
-Drain punch
-bullet seed /seed bomb
-Facade

This breloom is pretty nice , first because everyone expect the spore/subpunch , and it can actually get paste gliscor , the only problem remain in it's speed , this is why i use him on my Trick room team and he did well ..

bullet seed is a nice choice , it get past sub and if it hits 3 times it has more power than seed bomb ..

you can try the bulk up version or replace drain punch with mach punch .. it's your choice :D

anyways this is a good set that i had a lot of fun playing with ..
Click to expand...
Cool set, but spore is extremely necessary to actually get off a Swords Dance. Also, I get the feeling most people would wait to run a similar set until Techniloom is released.

GtM said:
Swords Dance Mienshao! But with a twist!

Mienshao @ Flying Gem
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Swords Dance
- Hi Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- HP Ice

One of the main problems with Fighting types is that their coverage moves don't hit hard enough on neutral targets, which is especially true when you're using moves like Stone Edge with significant drawbacks. Flying Gem gives you a one-time, 165 BP neutral attack with 100% accuracy and gives you a 110 BP attack every time afterwards. This is significantly better than Stone Edge against neutral targets, and Fighting / Flying coverage only misses out on Zapdos and Thundurus IIRC. Gliscor is nailed by HP Ice as always. The set fares signficiantly better against Ghost, Psychic and Poison types than the standard Stone Edge, but fares worse against Flying types.
Click to expand...
I'd like to try this, but too often Mienshao gets owned by faster pokemon anyways (Tornadus, Starmie, Latios, etc etc)
Still it's good and probably would like paralysis support. (yes I know paralysis won't help with Starmie >.>). Also, I believe everyone can appreciate a 100% accuracy coverage move.

was going to post a set but I decided it was too meh so all you get from me is comments :)
 
TM13IceBeam said:
This actually seems like a rather cool set that can catch opponents off guard. Trick can screw over some Pokes, like nabbing Heatran's Balloon or something.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but I'd much rather just Superpower the Heatran (popping its Balloon in the process) instead of taking its item then dying.
 
MaestroXXVI said:
uhh...yeah it does

either that or bulbapedia, smogon, and PO are all wrong about the move

so...yeah, it does work
Click to expand...

The only time Trick/Switcheroo doesn't work is if one Poké has Sticky Hold, Mail, a Substitute up, or has a Plate as Arceus, a Griseous Orb as Giratina, or a Drive as Genesect so yes Maestro is correct
 
Here's another set that I'm going to test out with a new team... Gravity Metagross!

Metagross @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Agility
- Gravity
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake

Gravity shuts down a LOT of Metagross' checks, such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, Skarmory, Bronzong, and Air Balloon Excadrill and Heatran. Since they'll often be inclined to switch in on AgiliGross, you'll effectively be able to get a free Gravity off as they come in to stop you, only to get wrecked by Earthquake. In Gravity, Steel / Ground has perfect neutral coverage. Ordinarily you'd have to run moves like Thunder Punch, Ice Punch and even mixed options to deal with them effectively, but Gravity deals with them all (whilst also giving Meteor Mash perfect accuracy!) Life Orb is recommended for the extra power, but if you want to take down Thundurus without fear of a T-Wave or want to set up on Rotom-W as it Will o Wisps you Lum Berry can be used to ensure a more secure sweep. The speed EVs let you outspeed Scarf Rotom-W after an Agility, if you need more just boost again! Metagross has surprisingly good physical bulk.
 
Yeah tested that set for research for the Gravity Article and I can say it works pretty well. I run 208 speed Jolly tho to get the jump on Scarf Landlos (I originally ran that amount of speed to outrun Scarf Chomp but w/e). Its pretty cool
 
In other words, if one Pokemon in a battle doesn't have a hold item and Trick is used, items are swapped around as usual, except if no one is holding an item, and basically whoever was the one holding the item when Trick was used, loses it to the opposing side.
 
GLUSCOR DIE
Salamence @Lum Berry/Life Orb
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
~Dragon Dance
~Draco Meteor
~Hydro Pump
~Fire Blast

The premise is to DD right off the bat, luring in your opponent's Gliscor (as well as other checks like Rotom-W, Bronzong, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Balloon Heatran, etc.). Using your high special attack stat, whack said check with super-effective move (or if all else fails, Draco Meteor it to death). It's incredibly impractical and outclassed by Latios, but no idiot is going to keep Gliscor in against Latios. This set has to work with something like SD Landorus or Terrakion, or DDNite for best results as it completely wrecks its old counters. Tyranitar is a damn big problem though, and so are Blissey and Chansey.
 
min min said:
GLUSCOR DIE
Salamence @Lum Berry/Life Orb
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
~Dragon Dance
~Draco Meteor
~Hydro Pump
~Fire Blast

The premise is to DD right off the bat, luring in your opponent's Gliscor (as well as other checks like Rotom-W, Bronzong, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Balloon Heatran, etc.). Using your high special attack stat, whack said check with super-effective move (or if all else fails, Draco Meteor it to death). It's incredibly impractical and outclassed by Latios, but no idiot is going to keep Gliscor in against Latios. This set has to work with something like SD Landorus or Terrakion, or DDNite for best results as it completely wrecks its old counters. Tyranitar is a damn big problem though, and so are Blissey and Chansey.
Click to expand...

If you're anyways using DD, swap one of your moves for a physical one. I used to run a DD/Dragon Claw/Hydro Pump/EQ set for a while, on a Hoenn-themes team, and it worked well. In terms of EVs, invest in special attack only as much as you need to KO a standard Gliscor, which you can figure out by trial and error.

I believe the set is listed will also deal with Tyrantiar, Blissey and Chansey.

EDIT: Or you could run Outrage for sheer physical power, and keep Fire Blast, to destroy those other switch-ins (Skarmory, Bronzong). Since you're DDing, minimal Attack investment.

What I'm saying is that since you're using DD, don't go purely special. It's a waste.
 
Woodchuck said:
Meh, I like to see creative sets that have something really creative, rather than "slap on a different item and call it a day".
Also, the 41% flinch chance basically means a 41% chance to hit for 2x damage. A Life Orb means a 100% chance to hit for 1.3x damage.

I'll calculate the average damage for each.
With a King's Rock,
0.41 (41% chance) * 2 (twice as much damage) + 0.59 (59% chance to hit with...) * 1 (normal damage) = 1.41 the base power of that move without the boosting item.

With the Life Orb,
1.00 (100% chance) * 1.3 (the LO boost) = 1.3 (lol) which is actually less than the average damage potential with King's Rock (1.41).
So King's Rock WILL hit harder on average, not even taking into account the possibility of flinching more than once. However, Life Orb is often the preferred item simply because you can rely on it to get the kills 100% of the time. (or rather as often as the move will hit :X)

/math
Click to expand...

Flinching has its benefits though:

1.) no recoil
2.) Flinching can do more than double damage.

For example, suppose the opponent is Bronzong,

LO Icicle Spear = 56.8 - 66.9
LO Razor Shell = 68.3 - 80.8
LO Hydro Pump = 63.9 - 75.4

So you can't beat a relatively healthy one, as SR + LO + Gyro Ball kills you over half the time.

However, with King's Rock,

Icicle Spear + Razor Shell = (43.8 - 51.5) + (52.7 - 62.1) = 96.5 - 113.6

Icicle Spear + Hydro Pump = (43.8 - 51.5) + (49.1 - 58.0) = 92.9 - 109.5

As you can see, you will be able to OHKO it with a flinch after SR. now, instead of a 6% chance of beating it, you have a 41%+crit chance of beating it. In addition, if you don't flinch, you will still survive Gyro Ball thanks to no LO recoil and proceed to 2HKO.

A flinch, in a situation like this, will do 150+125/125 = 220% damage (???? for hydro pump since SO CONFUZING SPECIAL AND PHYSICAL), or on average a .41*2.2 + .59 = 49.2% damage increase, almost as much as a choice band. This pretty much applies to only Steel types though :|.
 
Ah, I see, Flinching + a follow-up move.
So, again, there is a trade-off.
This pretty much depends on the KOes you get with Life Orb.
 
Rain attacker Dragonite anyone? Since Dragonite's bulk is a lot better than it's Speed, I figured bulky is good

Dragonite - Leftovers
Modest - Multiscale
252 SpA 248 HP 8 SpD
Hurricane
Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
Thunder
Surf/Roost

Dragonite is the only Poké that learns Hurricane and Thunder which both get 100% accuracy in the rain, Surf also gets a nice boost

Edit: I considered Dragon Claw/Outrage over Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor but I'd personally rather keep it focused, and yeah I figured Roost was worth a mention
 
Zacchaeus said:
Rain attacker Dragonite anyone? Since Dragonite's bulk is a lot better than it's Speed, I figured bulky is good

Dragonite - Leftovers
Modest - Multiscale
252 SpA 248 HP 8 SpD
Hurricane
Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
Thunder
Surf

Dragonite is the only Poké that learns Hurricane and Thunder which both get 100% accuracy in the rain, Surf also gets a nice boost
Click to expand...

There's a similar set on the Dragonite analysis, and he is very much a mix-and-match Pokemon. You don't really *need* Surf, you can run Quiet nature with a physical move that lets you beat Blissey. Or Roost is another option.
 
Here's a new set that might be worth investigating. Bulky Virizion!

Virizion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 176 HP / 140 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Rock Slide
- Leaf Blade

Thundurus is obviously a big threat in the metagame, and I was thinkin about whether there were any legitimately good checks to it that could be used in other situations. Virizion is such as pokemon, with incredible special bulk and the ability to reliably 2HKO Thundurus (or OHKO after a Swords Dance) With the following EVs, Virizion isn't OHKO'd by a +2 Hidden Power Ice or 2HKO'd by an unboosted one, which is the only attack from Thundurus that threatens it in the slightest. Any non-Nasty Plot Thundurus will get its ass handed to it by a +2 Rock Slide, which KOs 100% of the time even without a boosting item, nature, STAB and considering Virizion's base 90 Attack. The speed EVs allow Virizion to outspeed max-speed base 100's, whilst the rest are pumped into attack to boost Virizion's meagre offense. After an SD, Virizion can go to town on most rain teams, especially if Thundurus is down, since it outspeeds most of its pokemon, can take attacks from Starmie and such if need be and threaten everything with +2 Leaf Blade or Sacred Sword (Close Combat can also be used but may defeat the purpose of running a bulky spread)

If you're not concerned about meeting base 100's and want to run a bulkier spread, a spread of 176 HP / 112 Atk / 220 Spe with a Careful nature outspeeds base 90's, still gets the 2HKO on Thundurus and has better bulk. If you're not concerned with speed at all, use 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 SpD with a Careful nature. You still outspeed max investment base 65's and no investment base 100's, so it's still not terribly slow.

Virizion with the bulkiest spread also deals excellently with LO Starmie, who only deals 49% - 58.3% with Ice Beam; the 2HKO can often be avoided via Leftovers recovery.
 
Sadly, you aren't countering Thunderus at +2 much if you try to switch in, Swords Dance and Rock Slide. Would Stone Edge be a good replacement though?
 
If Thundurus is an NP variant then it most likely won't have Taunt and will just go straight for the KO.
We were discussing on IRC, but this set can set up on and check NP Thundurus (it checks all Thundurus, really, and this is a better check than most as it can switch in to any of Thundurus's moveset first turn. Would that make it a counter?)

Raikou @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
4 HP/252 SpA /252 Spe
Calm Mind
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Shadow Ball

Since Raikou is faster than Thundurus, it can switch in on the Nasty Plot and set up a Calm Mind.

If Thundurus doesn't carry Life Orb:
252 +2 SpAtk Thundurus Focus Blast vs 4 HP/0 +1 SpDef Raikou: 52.8% - 62.11%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
so Raikou can actually CM again before retaliating.

If Thundurus does carry Life Orb: (Most people don't run Life Orb...)
252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs 4 HP/0 +1 SpDef Raikou: 68.63% - 80.75%
which will still never KO even with Stealth Rock. However, Thundurus has to rely on Focus Blast not missing for this :/ But it can still Focus Blast + HP Ice for the KO.

If Thundurus uses HP Ice on Raikou, on the other hand, it would be only a 3HKO with LO and a 4HKO should Thundurus opt for Leftovers.

Raikou, in return:
252 +1 SpAtk Raikou Thunderbolt vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Thundurus: 85.33% - 101%
which is a sure KO with Stealth Rock and has approximately a 3% chance of KOing without. You can carry a LO instead to ensure the KO on Thundurus if you want, but you may end up killing yourself if you are facing an LO Thundurus, so Stealth Rock is the preferred method to make sure you KO Thundurus.

Yes, this isn't really a creative set, but nowhere in the analysis does it state that Raikou can check Thundurus :P
Also, though this set seems to rely on Calm Mind to check Thundurus, keep in mind that Focus Blast is only sometimes a 2HKO on Raikou unboosted and a 3HKO if Thundurus not only is unboosted but fails to hold a Life Orb. In return, Raikou has an easy 2HKO on Thundurus with Thunderbolt. If Thundurus is carrying Nasty Plot and Taunt, then HP Ice is only a 2HKO anyways, and may fail to 2HKO if Thundurus isn't holding a Life Orb.

In short, try out Raikou!

EDIT: This set would work even better with Lightningrod as then it could simply predict a Thunderbolt, switch in, and OHKO with a Thunderbolt of its own. >.>
 
The above set looks pretty cool, I'll try that out when I get the chance. Also, wouldn't the same set work even better under rain? Thunder would have a chance to OHKO with SR down...

Tinkerbell Celebi is actually a pretty good check at full health too, as it takes +2 HP Ices for no less than 70% damage and OHKOs with a LO Psychic after SR, sometimes with SR (I kinda forgot which).
 
Another thought I just had: Would running Light Screen assist that Virizion in checking Thundurus?
Also, yeah, Tinkerbell Celebi is pretty good in this meta.
 
I can't imagine why the Smogcast would diss j9r for advocating it.

Light Screen Virizion can't exactly set it up fast enough, but that turn you use to set up Light Screen is the same turn you use to SD, and you still can't KO it. It can check the non-boosted ones pretty nicely though.
 
Mienshao

Try this and see how it works.
Mienshao ability: Regenerator
Item Flying Gem
Moves:
Acrobatics
Hi Jump Kick
Drain Punch
U-turn

You can kick but with this pokemon but if your oppenent uses a physic type pokemon such as Alakzam use U-turn to get away from it. Also the Flying Gem and Acrobatics combo is killer. This pokemon should be used primarily as a striker.
 
PokeMaster7 said:
Try this and see how it works.
Mienshao ability: Regenerator
Item Flying Gem
Moves:
Acrobatics
Hi Jump Kick
Drain Punch
U-turn

You can kick but with this pokemon but if your oppenent uses a physic type pokemon such as Alakzam use U-turn to get away from it. Also the Flying Gem and Acrobatics combo is killer. This pokemon should be used primarily as a striker.
Click to expand...

Alakazam outspeeds and OHKO's (No calcs but I'm certain it can), Drain Punch just sucks unfortunately - he has just about zero bulk, it's redundant with HJK, and the moveslot is much better filled by HP-Ice. Also, it should be Naïve nature with 252Atk/4SpA/252Spe, so it can OHKO Gliscor (I vaguely remember it only needing 4 SpA EV's to OHKO, but I can't calculate the damage so excuse my crappy console).
 
Mienshao

Yeah I've actually gone up against Alakzam and I outsped him and was able to use U-turn to get away from him. But yeah I'm thinking about trashing drain punch. What move should replace it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top