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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Excadrill functions primarily as a late game sweeper. You generally toss up a SD, and go, I have 5 turns to kill 3 things. That extra coverage move helps this immensely. Landorus is much better suited to the role of Sub-Sweeping due to typing advantage and access to HP Ice.

I also find Hyper Offense to be not half bad a playstyle. Just run an Air Balloon Terrakion, Infernape or Lucario (the latter two are better for specially based HO teams) then run a Mamoswine or Starmie for Thundurus and Dragonite and call it a day.
 
my landorus lived a +2 rock slide.. and hammer armed (it had baloon intact) it was both of our last pokes.. both full health.

it. didnt. fucking. die.

what? was it a defensive excadrill or something?
anyone wann do the calcs?

mine was a jolly choice scarf.
his.. idk. thats what i want to kno
 
blarajan said:
Wow, Hammer Arm sucks, then. Does it actually do anything the other moves won't?
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the only reason i use it is for pesky random baloon pokes.
lucario, (lives +2 extremespeed), heatran, excadrill, tyranitar...
and also, hits ferrothorn harder than eq.

but the power is pretty much the same in sandstorm.

150x1.3(i think) is 195
as opposed to hammer arm's 200
 
Nkululeko said:
It's sad if people right off Sun that quickly. It's probably not as good as the other weathers (CM Ninetails is a boss but it can't touch Tyranitar since they're all Sp Def now) but if you're not facing Stall or another weather Infernape and Volcarona are most likely running through your opponent.

And on a semi-related point, has anyone else noticed how standardized this meta's becomng? Everyone and their grandma runs a Gliscor(the few that don't have a Skarmory or Bronzong), just about all Tyranitar are Specially Defensive(we know all Jirachi are) and Ferrothorn is basically omnipresent. I'm not saying ban Excadrill and Latios (there's no need but they are the reason the first three are used so much) but it makes playing OU somewhat stale when so many people basically start running the same team. Sand is almost completely cut and paste and I can't count how many times I've seen Politoed/Thundurus/Toxicroak and/or Tentacruel/Jirachi/filler in team preview. I don't like ranting too much in forums but come on.

@Pocket Sub+Balloon might find some use if you could get around the Excadrill counter that is on the opposing team but since most Excadrill are LO now(and therefore that much more Gliscor-weak) with Sub you're killing you're pokemon before your opponent gets a chance.
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I both agree and disagree with you.

I agree that the metagame has become more staple and more standart sets have been created than before but i disagree with you that this is something stale and boring...

Finally after months of playtesting and suspect testing we have a very balanced metagame,imo,that offers great variety and is very fun to play!
Having all these standarts is good 'cause finally everything is put in order and almost everything is explored!
You can judge oposing teams better and have a better plan for defeating them since you are more certain now for some sets than u were in before 3 or 4 months...This encourages strategic play in my opinion and is a very good thing.
Standarts are necessary to keep the metagame balanced and organized!
In the other hand despite having many standart sets variety is very omnipresent.Every day i play i see new surprises and new sets,some of which are good while some others aren't.Everyday i see many sun,rain,sand and weatherless teams...And if you take into account how many playstyles each of these types of teams has you can pretty much see the variety right there.

For me some of the teams i face may be boring and not so fun to play against sure,but the diversity that i see in many other teams makes up for it...!
 
I've tried Hyper offense team with DS Espeon and it works amazling well !
It needs a bit of predict and you can setup the right screen (or both) for letting your anti-team sweeper to take place and rape opponents.

What you guys thinks are the best choice for an HO ? I personally run Volcarona, Terra, Starmie, Viri and Dnite.
 
Ewil said:
I've tried Hyper offense team with DS Espeon and it works amazling well !
It needs a bit of predict and you can setup the right screen (or both) for letting your anti-team sweeper to take place and rape opponents.

What you guys thinks are the best choice for an HO ? I personally run Volcarona, Terra, Starmie, Viri and Dnite.
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I think if your gonna go with heavy offense then you have to do it big. I use huntail and gorybuss with shell smash and have 4 receivers or 3 receivers + a quagsire or something like that. Huntail and Gory can take a huge amount of attacks and get up the initial SS. White herb will negate all defensive stat losses. Then you pass to a balloon terrakion with hp ice and its almost impossible to stop besides scizor and conk. If terrakion is under a sub, then whirlwind/roar is the only way to beat it. The perfect HO team needs to hit hard fast or its going to lose to the opposing defensive /weather team.
 
That's a more smash spass team, i was looking at a pure HO.
Smash Pass is hyper offense too, and i'll give it a try.
 
Woodchuck said:
EDIT:
That's true but there is still room for creative teams to do well. I make a point of having at least one unorthodox set/pokemon/move on every team and I regularly make 1250+. (maybe I should stick it out and take the time to ladder but for me discussing the game might be more fun than playing it. Am I weird? idk) I honestly think that halting the suspect testing process was good for the metagame because it gave people more time to adapt to threats and also gave them more time to be bored enough and use different teams. This, along with the #dreamworld challenge, is helping to diversify player strategies a bit more as people have more time to experiment rather than "RUSH RUSH SPAM STANDARD TEAM TO REACH REQS"

Oh, and one more thing: Creativity helps, not hinders, as standards are prepared for more.
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alexwolf said:
I both agree and disagree with you.

I agree that the metagame has become more staple and more standart sets have been created than before but i disagree with you that this is something stale and boring...

Finally after months of playtesting and suspect testing we have a very balanced metagame,imo,that offers great variety and is very fun to play!
Having all these standarts is good 'cause finally everything is put in order and almost everything is explored!
You can judge oposing teams better and have a better plan for defeating them since you are more certain now for some sets than u were in before 3 or 4 months...This encourages strategic play in my opinion and is a very good thing.
Standarts are necessary to keep the metagame balanced and organized!
In the other hand despite having many standart sets variety is very omnipresent.Every day i play i see new surprises and new sets,some of which are good while some others aren't.Everyday i see many sun,rain,sand and weatherless teams...And if you take into account how many playstyles each of these types of teams has you can pretty much see the variety right there.

For me some of the teams i face may be boring and not so fun to play against sure,but the diversity that i see in many other teams makes up for it...!
Click to expand...

You guys are probably the reason I'm still playing OU (they started banning all the fun stuff in UU anyway). I wish more people would be encouraged to make their own sets and strategies but too many people take the easy way out (o well...). And for a little twilight zone piece, I actually agree with alexwolf, weird.

Anyway for Hyper Offensive teams 4-5 moveslots are going to be personal preference. The other 1 or 2 are going to be your team support. It's a good playstyle, don't get me wrong, but it's pretty necessary to have a team slot or two dedicated to setting up either screens or baton passing something. I don't know about Smashpassing though, it's quick on giving dividends and really good with Smeargle but it also ends just as quickly. The best baton pass chain is probably the Ninjask, Vaporeon, Espeon, etc chain running around OU lately. Pass that to a mix-sweeper or just go for Stored Power and it's basically gg.
 
Any of the ones that start with ninjask are super easy to defeat, IMO. Rotom/Scizor is a great core, and this is one of those places. Rotom Volt Switches to scout Ninjask. if it stays in, he then goes to Scizor, who threatens it with a BP. gg.
 
What you guys thinks are the best choice for an HO ? I personally run Volcarona, Terra, Starmie, Viri and Dnite.
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Special: Volcarona, Reuniclus, Latios are some you should consider (latios learns CM?!)
Physical: Cloyster, Terrakion, Dragonite.

Remember, team preview is so helpful. You know people use Heatran and flying types to counter volcarona, so just make sure you have something that will bring them in, make them take SR damage, and hit them for about 40%. Then there's no stopping Volcarona.
Smash pass is garbage. If you can't pull of the smash pass you lose pretty much, and you lose momentum if you can't smash pass immediately. With screens you pretty much will have at least two turns of setup in like 90% of matchups.

Also Landorus is not a good idea for taking on Excadrill (return). Not to mention with all of the u-turning it does it racks up too much SR damage lategame.
 
Ewil said:
I've tried Hyper offense team with DS Espeon and it works amazling well !
It needs a bit of predict and you can setup the right screen (or both) for letting your anti-team sweeper to take place and rape opponents.

What you guys thinks are the best choice for an HO ? I personally run Volcarona, Terra, Starmie, Viri and Dnite.
Click to expand...

What you're thinking isn't hyper offense but heavy offense. Hyper offense involves hitting only one side of the spectrum. Either all physical sweepers or all special sweepers (although mixed is acceptable) This way, you cut down on the number of pokemon that can wall your team. For example a stall team has 3 physical walls and 3 special walls. If every one of your threats is special, then you can avoid the physical walls outright. Another important thing about using only one side of the spectrum is not letting your opponent set up and picking pokemon that have similar counters. Sac Pokes left and right, but never switch out, always go for a hit. That way, you can wear down the counters over the course of a match, don't let it heal by using vicious repeated assaults. Once the counters fall, any of the sweepers can now clean house.
 
Yeah ! I was mistaken.
But this two types of teams are very viable now and can score a lot of kills pretty easy and quick
 
Tehy tehy...what kind of team doesn't give you free wins.

Anyways, I'm really liking team preview this gen. It lets you develop a plan before the game even starts.
 
A good one

Dualscreens sacrifices a pokemon for free, then does the same things all offensive teams do-get stalled the hell out.
 
I'd say team preview has actually hurt the game if anything. It takes away much of the surprise element, creating a much less competitive environment. Yes you get to formulate a game plan, but so does your opponent, who will now know to double switch in their Rotom-W after revealing their Excadrill since they already know you have a Skarmory.
 
Do you have any idea how much damage something like Volcarona or Latios can do underscreens? You might lose a screener (who stops other setup, sets up SR, and gets up screens) but usually the payoff is better. It's not a stall concept, it's an offensive payoff. You risk a screener and even sacrifice 1-2 pokemon just to beat one wall, but then you sweep with pokemon who have the same counter.

Take for instance, Jellicent. It walls Volcarona. And I'm guessing you would also use it to stop CM Latios. Well after fighting CM latios you now have like 20% of you health left. Now stop Volcarona.

I'd say team preview has actually hurt the game if anything. It takes away much of the surprise element, creating a much less competitive environment. Yes you get to formulate a game plan, but so does your opponent, who will now know to double switch in their Rotom-W after revealing their Excadrill since they already know you have a Skarmory.
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It does make using choice users like specs Gastrodon and band Terrakion much easier. Imagine how weather wars would be if you didn't know if they had a ttar / tales / toed.

Okay, go hippowdon.
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?
 
If jellicent goes down killing latios, i send in hippo on volcarona and roar it away.
Or i set up rocks and roar it away, depending on if it has leftovers or not.
 
Team preview destroys the pokémon and the team (in most cases) surprise factor.
On the other hand, it lets you play in a poker-like dimension. Starting from the lead You have to bluff a lot of things in the team preview. The surprise factor now stays in the sets of the pokémon.
GF puts us into a new challenge, that improve (in my experience) a lot our prediction factor.
 
Imagine having to take down Dragonite behind screens, that would be an absolute pain. HO, while not the best playstyle, is still viable.

Unfortunately, many of the best moves we can do are the most predictable. Everyone knows that Gliscor is going to be switching into Excadrill. Everyone knows Magnezone is going to be switching into Forretress. Improving our prediction factor is not necessarily a good thing as it often gives away your strategy on turn 1 (ever expect anything besides shell smash baton pass when you see Gorebyss?)
 
An example of a surprise set is an offensive Gorebyss that abuse Shell Smash over pass it, you expected a SmashPass, then you have a sweeper in front of you.
That's a simple example, but i think that is the only surprise factor you can have in this generation. The rest is put in ability.

And yes, Dragonite is so awesome to abuse with screens
 
You'd be surprise at some of the sweepers I've been using. You can never know what coverage moves its carrying and people often lose more than they have to just to find what it's running.

Phazing Volcarona won't really put a stop to it. Especially since you will under so much pressure you won't have time to set up SR.
 
For team types viable in the metagame, I think HO is actually one of the least viable. With bulky offense so popular, it can tank hits from HO and KO their frail sweepers. And not to mention shit like Gliscor is used by everyone and their cousin thanks to the metagame being so standardized.

I personally run balance, and it's a great team type, it's pretty useless to depend on speedy pokemon anymore thanks to the speed tiers being dominated by excadrill.

And team preview is one of the more suckish additions to battling this gen. I work with it of course, but it's just stupid IMO. Leads are basically extinct now, and you can't really have any surprise team strategy thanks to your opponent being able to see it. And it makes matches much longer and annoying with switches being made 3 times in a turn.
 
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