Dude the only thing standard cores are good against is defending against one threat each (your rachi takes on Latios, Gliscor for Excadrill). Roto / Glis / Rachi is a joke against dual screens offense since everything is only walled by 1 of the three depending if its physical or special and they get overwhelmed so easily. Also frail sweepers aren't so frail when everything is doing half to them (not to mention calling something like Reuniclus frail)
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Dude the only thing standard cores are good against is defending against one threat each (your rachi takes on Latios, Gliscor for Excadrill). Roto / Glis / Rachi is a joke against dual screens offense since everything is only walled by 1 of the three depending if its physical or special and they get overwhelmed so easily. Also frail sweepers aren't so frail when everything is doing half to them (not to mention calling something like Reuniclus frail)
It's called switching, and it will happen, thus stalling out dual screens. The opponent is allowed to predict too.
And reuniclus is far from heavy offense IMO. 1) It is slow as shit, so no sweeping outside of TR, which can be stalled out. 2) It serves much better as a tank.
And reuniclus is far from heavy offense IMO. 1) It is slow as shit, so no sweeping outside of TR, which can be stalled out. 2) It serves much better as a tank.
You do realize bulky pokemon get Dual Screens right? Deoxys-D behind screens isn't a free KO unless you're well prepared for it. And Winston, in a TR team you burn one turn setting it up and have slow and bulky pokemon sweep. TR is as much a part of Heavy Offense as screen support is.
Edit: Ninja'd by half of Smogon, whatever it still stands that Excadrill isn't in about 70+% of battles and you shouldn't be forced to drag along a Gliscor or Skarmory to take it down. It can be handled by other means, no need to waste a teamslot for a pokemon wrecked by just about every mixed attacker.
Disagree completely, I'd say Reuniclus is a very useful addition to a HO team. HO often has trouble dealing with stall unless they add like Infernape or something on it. Reuniclus is perfect for tearing apart any stall team that lacks Scizor/ Ttar.
I love dualscreens dragonite, because people don't use leftovers on it, so it's pretty easy to phaze and thus stall out.
Seriously, it'd be scary if people ran max attack and lefties and roost, but since they don't d-nite has 4 switch-ins to stealth rocks, probably less with sandstorm.
Oh yeah, and Tr reuiniclus can be a very interesting addition, although if they use your own tr against you, it can proably be a pain.
Seriously, it'd be scary if people ran max attack and lefties and roost, but since they don't d-nite has 4 switch-ins to stealth rocks, probably less with sandstorm.
Oh yeah, and Tr reuiniclus can be a very interesting addition, although if they use your own tr against you, it can proably be a pain.
Fixed for you
I love dualscreens dragonite, because people don't use leftovers on it, so they use life orb instead with max attack so it's easy to phaze and it dies fast. Fixed for you
Whoops, looks like you hired a bad handyman to fix that. Hope you got quotes!!
Also, they usually run a lum berry anyways, since beating status makes it a better stall counter.
Whoops, looks like you hired a bad handyman to fix that. Hope you got quotes!!
Also, they usually run a lum berry anyways, since beating status makes it a better stall counter.
Well, you talk about 'ease of phazing out.' Then the lefties set with DD/Roost/DClaw/Coverage is actually a lot easier to phaze out. Also, what do you use to phaze out Dragonite that easily? I'm genuinely curious, because stuff like Skarmory is not safe at all...
(edit: max defense skarm takes 61-72% against lo +1Dnite, so if you run Shed Shell, you're left at 10% or something after phazing it out. specially defensive skarm doesn't even stand a chance as it nearly gets OHKO'd by Life Orb Fire Punch+SR)
Seriously, stuff like dragonite doesn't have one counter you can go "oh I'll switch to my counter and phaze him no biggie. I Love facing dragonite i never lose to it. Im the best hurp durp."
(edit: max defense skarm takes 61-72% against lo +1Dnite, so if you run Shed Shell, you're left at 10% or something after phazing it out. specially defensive skarm doesn't even stand a chance as it nearly gets OHKO'd by Life Orb Fire Punch+SR)
Seriously, stuff like dragonite doesn't have one counter you can go "oh I'll switch to my counter and phaze him no biggie. I Love facing dragonite i never lose to it. Im the best hurp durp."
Did you not see that?
It does, and it's skarmory. Yes, he can use a life-orbed fire punch to do more than 50% damage, but then he's lost about 41% of his health. When he comes back in that's 66%, same routine and he's down to like, 18% of his health.
A lum berry'd fire punch does about 50%, so i can roost a few times, and WW them out on the second DD. then next time i'll just switch in and phaze, GG.
And against a life orbed d-nite i'd probably still get off a roost, so after the first time it might even be 57%, which gives him about two more attacks, one if he DD's. Since these teams rarely carry spinners, that means he's screwed.
And i'll almost always have rocks up on this kind of a team anyhow, so don't say "well what if you don't have rocks". Trust me, i will.
In fact, if you're so sure of this, make a team based around doing that, and challenge me. I'll show you how beating d-nite is done.
A lum berry'd fire punch does about 50%, so i can roost a few times, and WW them out on the second DD. then next time i'll just switch in and phaze, GG.
And against a life orbed d-nite i'd probably still get off a roost, so after the first time it might even be 57%, which gives him about two more attacks, one if he DD's. Since these teams rarely carry spinners, that means he's screwed.
And i'll almost always have rocks up on this kind of a team anyhow, so don't say "well what if you don't have rocks". Trust me, i will.
In fact, if you're so sure of this, make a team based around doing that, and challenge me. I'll show you how beating d-nite is done.
Tehy what are your methods of beating dragonite? Personally I depend on SR + Ice attacks, or Froslass shutting him down in some way or another. He's a pain sometimes.
The #1 downfall of bulky offense is trying to switch around boosted attacks. First of all, even stuff like Latios that resists Reuniclus' psychic is taking around 35-40%. You want to switch around and wear something down with LO recoil, chances are you will end up having everything on your team take nasty chip damage and be unable to tank hits from the rest of the team. TR Clus is the outright sweeper, and it is for lategame when the last three or so of their team can't switch without having everything OHKOd by psychic.
BTW the stuff that makes dual screens offense difficult is stuff like prankster taunt, scarf Terrakion, multiscale DDnite, half of a team having choiced priority, and status. Most of which can be worked around if you prepare for it in teambuilding. Not glis / roto / rachi or phazing.
Well if you're banking on Reuniclus specifically, then I would just stay in with my pokemon that can outright OHKO/2HKO with a super effective attack.
Banking on it? TR Reuniclus operates by tanking a hit from pretty much anything even without screens (I think it can tank a LO shadow ball from Gengar at full health), setting up, and then cleaning because usually nothing can stop it lategame if I've weakened Scizor enough. You can't really stall out it's turns lategame, which is when it should be played. Reuniclus was just an example.
Not everything carries a move super effective against Reuniclus. -.-
When setting up with TR Reuniclus you just have to either be able to force a switch eg. Ferrothorn and Forretress. Or you have to be able to take a hit and KO back which happens quite a lot. For example you can send Reuniclus in after you've sacced something to Excadrill and set up there while taking an unboosted X-Scissor. You can do the same to Tyranitar while surviving the its weak Crunch (just be sure it's anything but CB) and KO after a TR with Focus Blast. Yes, Scizor can pick you off afterward, but any competent TR Reuniclus user will have it weakened or dead before sending Reuniclus in to start sweeping.
Deoxys-D seems like a good dual screener since it can come back in later and even recover lost health. I just might try bulky HO again with Suicune, Dragonite, and Jirachi. lol
Dragonite? What's that? DD Mixmence under sunlight is the true king of this metagame. No, I will not be setting up when you have Scizor in wait. No, you will not preserve Scizor when it does nothing to the rest of my team.
When tehy talks of phazing, he's speaking of sp. def hippo, who can take a hit from sun's fire type sp. sweepers save for nasty plot infernape and offensive volcorona.
I'm with tehy on dragonite here. Bulky DD has always been more threatening to me. The most dangerous set...
When tehy talks of phazing, he's speaking of sp. def hippo, who can take a hit from sun's fire type sp. sweepers save for nasty plot infernape and offensive volcorona.
I'm with tehy on dragonite here. Bulky DD has always been more threatening to me. The most dangerous set...
What KOs does it get in the sun that it can't get otherwise? Maybe Jirachi I guess. It was a good set in gen 4 with DD / DM / Outrage / Fire Blast.
I know, but phazing Volcarona does nothing but delay, since it will rarely find time to SR (and if it does, something is setting up big and eliminating it)
Bulky nite is too weak to KO anything before being statused by something like Jellicent or Mew or Heatran. But yea it is still really deadly because of how easily it can DD up. It's not the most dangerous set though, that goes to mixnite. Try keeping you team together after facing one.
I know, but phazing Volcarona does nothing but delay, since it will rarely find time to SR (and if it does, something is setting up big and eliminating it)
Bulky nite is too weak to KO anything before being statused by something like Jellicent or Mew or Heatran. But yea it is still really deadly because of how easily it can DD up. It's not the most dangerous set though, that goes to mixnite. Try keeping you team together after facing one.
I find bulky DD nite to be the worst one to face definately. Any other dragonite I can outspeed safely and status/KO after a while. But when it outspeeds and hits hard, not to mention damn multiscale, it's near unstoppable.
I can't status it when its behind a sub. I can't break the sub when it uses roost to reactivate multiscale and my wall uses some piss poor weak attack. Sure, I can phaze, but that only lasts for so long.
Mixmence can run a nature aside from naive since the sun boost is enough to mangle steels even with adamant. If you're like me and run max SpA, then fire blast ohkos gliscor and manhandles most physical walls. After a DD, you're only getting stopped by a weather change, priority, and pory2.
Mixmence can run a nature aside from naive since the sun boost is enough to mangle steels even with adamant. If you're like me and run max SpA, then fire blast ohkos gliscor and manhandles most physical walls. After a DD, you're only getting stopped by a weather change, priority, and pory2.
On a completely different note, what about Resttalk? Yes, sleep clause says screw you, yes, it incapacitates you somewhat, but some pokemon may have rest as their only viable recovery and have the bulk to deserve a chance. What pokemon first off can successfully use it?
From what I've seen, Running a Latios with Dual Screens, DM, and Memento works pretty well. DM prevents it from being setup fodder, and Memento to give your other pokes an easy time setting up. Unfortunately though, is if your running a special HO team, you would want Latios as a sweeper :(
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