Well, you could use a Nidoqueen, it can be a decent toxic spiker. I might actually try it out one day.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Only choice band Terrakions have earthquake, outside that its more then a good counter. And choice band is a bit uncommon too.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Why did you not put Gliscor, Slowbro, Tangrowth, Jellicient, or Celebi, on your team you mean?
Or if you want to dig deeper, Nidoqueen, Golurk, Dusknoir/Clops, Eviolite Tangela, and Claydol?
You know, for all of my negative talk against hp ice terrakion, I've NEVER seen it. If it wasn't for my bad luck with gliscor and rogue ice attacks from...everything I'd probably use him against terrakion again. Or maybe I'll try the hp ice terra out. Meh.
I'm not using virizion at all. Nobody use him. Let him drop to UU so that I get to use another special attacker who beats chansey. That and I won't run into sun teams, who virizion...really doesn't do anything against guys. CM Virizion loses to Ninetales. NINETALES!
Or if you want to dig deeper, Nidoqueen, Golurk, Dusknoir/Clops, Eviolite Tangela, and Claydol?
You know, for all of my negative talk against hp ice terrakion, I've NEVER seen it. If it wasn't for my bad luck with gliscor and rogue ice attacks from...everything I'd probably use him against terrakion again. Or maybe I'll try the hp ice terra out. Meh.
I'm not using virizion at all. Nobody use him. Let him drop to UU so that I get to use another special attacker who beats chansey. That and I won't run into sun teams, who virizion...really doesn't do anything against guys. CM Virizion loses to Ninetales. NINETALES!
Stratos
Banned deucer.
it ISN'T right when the fire type poke in question is ninetales. It's frankly a waste of oxygen.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
That's exactly it though. You're losing to the weakest pokemon on drought teams outside of the hazard support. Fire type or not, you'd have a better shot at beating Ninetales with Stone Edge than you would with focus blast.
Terrakion can carry those moves to get around its counters in the same way Scizor might carry superpower for heatran. Most of the time, those pokemon are all solid checks.
Terrakion can carry those moves to get around its counters in the same way Scizor might carry superpower for heatran. Most of the time, those pokemon are all solid checks.
slowbro tangrowth celebi jellicent all hate cb se and SD se. the most you can do is twave it as sleep/stun/wow are all chancing it and storm is giving it insurance against spatks
and +1 lefties virizion does 65-77 to max hp/min spdef ninetales with focus blast so...
and as for everyone bitching about virizion, shut up. there's two common sets, both have shitload of counters but will usually lose to the other version
tehy
Banned deucer.
"Oh, you can stick a blissey in front of celebi LOLOL!"
Yeah; same thing for virizion. Except-whoops-you won't have enough power to giga drain in blissey's face. Focus blasts to the face, you say? Have fun getting stalled even faster than you otherwise would.
Toxic, you say? Same thing, except i can boost in its face, start attacking, and run when i need to-except it's no longer there when i come back in, which means i can get off a sweep some other time.
+1 lefties virizion does 46-55 to 651/369 blissey with focus blast so...
it's going to be a 50/50 relying on focus blast to hit twice......so blissey loses half the time
it's going to be a 50/50 relying on focus blast to hit twice......so blissey loses half the time
just because you always get lucky with virizion not awaking on your switch turn to skarmory does not make it a viable solution. as with all things that gets 2hko'd by focus blast, you have a 50/50 chance.
with life orb, virizion does roughly 60-70% to 651/369 blissey. given the context that you would only use a life orb virizion on a very offensively based team, seeing as how you dont expect virizion to last around long, we can assume that there will be attempted spike stacking. just sr +1 spikes means virizion has the chance to off blissey in one hit.
using blissey to deal with a fighting poke is most of the time not an ideal situation. at the very least i would have hoped you were competent enough to go with the "i use a stall team and i like to run tspikes, so i can just do random switches to rid of virizion while poison racks up" which is an actual viable way for stall teams to deal with a good number of threats, including celebi, volcarona, terrakion, and scrafty for example.
once again, virizion has plenty of counters, but not all will work against every version
with life orb, virizion does roughly 60-70% to 651/369 blissey. given the context that you would only use a life orb virizion on a very offensively based team, seeing as how you dont expect virizion to last around long, we can assume that there will be attempted spike stacking. just sr +1 spikes means virizion has the chance to off blissey in one hit.
using blissey to deal with a fighting poke is most of the time not an ideal situation. at the very least i would have hoped you were competent enough to go with the "i use a stall team and i like to run tspikes, so i can just do random switches to rid of virizion while poison racks up" which is an actual viable way for stall teams to deal with a good number of threats, including celebi, volcarona, terrakion, and scrafty for example.
once again, virizion has plenty of counters, but not all will work against every version
Ninetales beats the #1 poke. Where's your god now huh
I don't have any problem with Ninetales. Basically because i use it to turn weather wars against... well, weather teams. I don't use it on Drought teams (which tends to have the same counters), so i can use Tales potential a bit more efficiently. And yeah, i use Solarbeam, i suck ass
NP is what i always use anyways. Sometimes mixed with Will-o-Wisp, sometimes not. And Fire Blast can hurt, you know...
Nobody would be dumb enough to keep ferrothorn in against ninetales for that matter. You switch out and watch as t-tar shrugs off the blistering flames, and then summons a storm of razor sharp stones to rip into the fox pokemon. While ninetales can beat the #1 pokemon, it can't ever beat the #2 pokemon. At least not in a fair fight.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
This is true. Can't argue against it. =/
If you're using that specially defensive mixed tyranitar set, then prepare to lose to Ninetales in a one on one fight. Have fun as crunch from a burned tyranitar does less than 25% of Tales' health. Meanwhile, it will beat you with burn and hp fighting.
Thankfully, I've been seeing that build less and less these days.
tehy
Banned deucer.
Not entirely true;as they usually CM as they wake up and i can just use sturdy to kill them; as they usually lead. If they aren't leading, i can get up t-spikes, then stall them out; but it's much harder.
A willow-wisp to the face is gonna hurt.
Back to lefovers Virizion though. There is a good chance that it will be min or average damage. With no sand, that 45%-55% turns to 39%-49% because of leftovers. That looks to be about a 3HKO, if all focus blasts hit, which they won't. Even in the sand, there is only about a 60% chance of a 2HKO if both hit, factoring missing, make that a 30% chance.
Back to lefovers Virizion though. There is a good chance that it will be min or average damage. With no sand, that 45%-55% turns to 39%-49% because of leftovers. That looks to be about a 3HKO, if all focus blasts hit, which they won't. Even in the sand, there is only about a 60% chance of a 2HKO if both hit, factoring missing, make that a 30% chance.
Actually, DO people use Ninetales outside of Sunlight-based teams? I'm not sure.
As for Virizion's choice of item, though, I do tend to slant towards Life Orb since I can always find decent recovery in Giga Drain while Taunting certain walls otherwise. I think it depends what kind of team Virizion is in, though. To me, OHKOing Scizor and Skarmory after a boost is invaluable.
As for Virizion's choice of item, though, I do tend to slant towards Life Orb since I can always find decent recovery in Giga Drain while Taunting certain walls otherwise. I think it depends what kind of team Virizion is in, though. To me, OHKOing Scizor and Skarmory after a boost is invaluable.
did gamefreak just release some new rapid spin tutor that i'm unaware of that makes 'common field conditions' lacking of sr completely now? if that's the case then yeah blissey is an absolute great counter to virizion, but is now entirely absolutely fucked by chesto rest volcarona, which heatran fails to stop as well thanks to you know, lack of common field conditions.
it's seems like you tend to like to only use the advantageous parts of your logic while refusing to acknowledge the possibility of losing. so let's use a little bit of common sense. blissey get's 2hko'd by virizion half the time if we go by the MOST LIKELY COMMON SCENARIO of sr on both sides and:
turn 28
blissey switches in
virizion uses calm mind
turn 29
virizion uses focus blast
blissey uses toxic?
turn 30
virizion uses focus blast
blissey dies
50/50
also...why would virizion use cm upon waking up? virizion would most likely come into something such as: ferrothorn, gliscor, jellicent, random stall poke that it likes to snack on. it then calm minds on your switch to your SLEEPER, your so called counter. it can now hit w/e mediocre sleeper you sent out as you use that turn to sleep it. if it wakes up on the insuring turn then skarmory is FUCKED. sturdy be damned because both sides can have all 6 layers for all i care and skarmory will still be FUCKED.
stop using your "it works against sub 900 rating players" logic
it's seems like you tend to like to only use the advantageous parts of your logic while refusing to acknowledge the possibility of losing. so let's use a little bit of common sense. blissey get's 2hko'd by virizion half the time if we go by the MOST LIKELY COMMON SCENARIO of sr on both sides and:
turn 28
blissey switches in
virizion uses calm mind
turn 29
virizion uses focus blast
blissey uses toxic?
turn 30
virizion uses focus blast
blissey dies
50/50
also...why would virizion use cm upon waking up? virizion would most likely come into something such as: ferrothorn, gliscor, jellicent, random stall poke that it likes to snack on. it then calm minds on your switch to your SLEEPER, your so called counter. it can now hit w/e mediocre sleeper you sent out as you use that turn to sleep it. if it wakes up on the insuring turn then skarmory is FUCKED. sturdy be damned because both sides can have all 6 layers for all i care and skarmory will still be FUCKED.
stop using your "it works against sub 900 rating players" logic
What are you trying to say here o_0. Virizion does more damage to Blissey than Celebi ever could. At least you can take down a weakened Blissey with Focus Blast if you need to (53.37% - 62.88%). What the hell can Celebi do? Yes, you can cure yourself with Natural Cure when you switch out, but do you know what that means? It means you just lost the bout with Blissey. At least Virizion has a chance of winning. +2 Modest LO Giga Drain (Yeah, I know no-one runs LO on Celebi, but I'm only proving a point) does 26.23% - 30.98%. Celebi is losing to Blissey whatever you do (I guess you can run something random like CM / Recover / Heal Bell / Giga Drain but have fun being walled by everything in existence). So, you haven't proven anything. Virizion still has a better chance at breaking stall than Celebi does, and this is considering the fact that Virizion's main job is not stallbreaking in the first place.
Fair enough, no need to be hostile about it. You could of simply said "But with stealth rocks support..."
lol in a meta with deo-s, skarm, ferro, and ttar, how could you not expect sr?
also chansey seems a lot more frail in this gen to special attackers; random stuff (like zoro) with np can 2hko with +2 fb almost all the time which basically kills heavy stall imo
also chansey seems a lot more frail in this gen to special attackers; random stuff (like zoro) with np can 2hko with +2 fb almost all the time which basically kills heavy stall imo
also ninetales can beat ttar if you run hypnosis i guess although that 60% chance sucks pretty much /: still though, if you can hit hypnosis gets so much momentum
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