Not really your fault for missing this since it was a few pages ago, but there you go.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Not really your fault for missing this since it was a few pages ago, but there you go.
+2 Attack Terrakion@Rock Gem KO's Skarm with SE. Now that Skarm's out of the way, more pokemon on your team can now ravage, namely Haxorus, Ttar and many hard physical attackers.
ah, sorry. I understand i might have contradicted myself a bit.
but think of it like this
The scarf terra set outspeeds even my scarf rotom at 407 speed. I have literally nothing that can go before it.
Scarf terrakion sits in a speed tier where only base 110+'s can outspeed him with a scarf, and then things like excadrill and maybe? deoxys s.
So they probably invest in all attack and just enough speed to outspeed everything unfairly. Thus they can hit effing hard. With an already good attack.
Dancing sets on terra, I find them underwhelming and frankly, I feel much safer and secure about victory when I see one. Because either way, before a rock polish or swords dance, I can safely outspeed them with over half my team. To gain dances, I'm going to guess these sets invest in bulk and less in attack. I have always been nearly cleaned clock by scarf terra sweeping me, but dancing ones surprisingly usually never manage to be able to hit hard enough to KO any of my pokemon before I kill it.
Now, for them to set up, they have to take a hit. Obviously they will try to force a switch, but about half my team can feel brave enough to stay in on them and KO. So if they aren't killed setting up, they are just about dead, and I can send in the pokemon on my team that CAN take a hit from terra.
If it goes for a swords dance I can outspeed safely and KO.
Double Dance sets (to my knowledge) run the exact same Evs as as Standard Scarf set. So I really don't understand what you mean when you imply that the Scarf Terrakion hits harder that the double booster.
ginganinja is right, they run the exact same ev spread. So I'm not sure where you got the information that they run more in bulk in order to take hits Winston, but that is definitely not true. Anyway, why is no one talking about the CB set? It hits extremely hard, and nothing can really take any two of it's hits unless it's something like a Protect Gliscor, which are becoming rarer due to Taunt.
I just go by the ones I see more often, double dance is usually more common, followed by scarf and band. So I just go wih double dance unless I see it doing something odd, which usually happens since they play diferently then the double dance set.
Terrakion is a fearsome Sweeper - probably better than Landorus. Terrakion is a much superior sweeper than Virizion, to which there are plenty of counters. I've thought of using Virizion a couple of times for its niche ability to resist QuakeSlide and Rotom-W, but then stuff like Celebi, Lati Twins, Reuniclus, Tornadus, Skarmory, Jirachi, Scizor, Volcarona, or Drought pop its head up and ruins it.
The only niche I see Landorus having over Terrakion is a strong ability to go Mixed (but since probably it's with Hidden Power, meh) and Terrakion's speed really comes in handy over Landorus. Virizion's not really too good of a sweeper IMO even though Calm Mind can be a pain to deal with.
And btw, out of the things you say ruin Virizion, 4 are dented hard by Hp Fire (Celebi, Skarm, Scizor, and Tornadus isn't very bulky to begin with, don't know calcs on Jirachi but I doubt it's doing too much there even though it's SE). Unless you have a physical move Volcarona will ruin your day but considering how Drought boosts Hp Fire and it's main members bar Ninetails/Infernape/Heatran are typically Fire weak, I'm not seeing the immediate danger unless you're running more bulk on Virizion and get outsped. Most people run Hp Ice, don't see why Virizion should bar Dragon types like Lati@s, but if those are what're giving you trouble go for it.
And btw, skrew Reuniclus.
I have no idea as to why Virizion would chose to run HP Fire
Pretty sure people run HP Ice so Virizion can handle stuff like Landorus and Dragonite. Celebi still gets hit by HP Ice and Skarmory, Scizor, and Jirachi take a fuckload from a +1 Focus Blast. Personally, the only reason TO run HP Fire is just for hitting Scizor on the switch and even then its pretty much useless as a CB Bullet Punch does quite a lot to Virizion. Lastly, HP Fire lowers your speed IV (which means stuff like Terrakion, Infernape, opposing Virizion), all outspeed you making HP Ice the superior option imo
I suggested it because it really hurts the things that normally "ruin" Virizion according to the guy I quoted. Besides, Hp Fire is boosted by Drought, hits Ferrothorn, and between Focus Blast and Hp Fire most of Sun teams are skrewed. Just an idea but your right. Outside of hitting the most commonly used pokemon, having what is essentially a STAB option in Drought to troll Sun teams, and reliably hitting (albeit much weaker) all the pokemon you listed as taking a lot from Focus Blast, you're right, HP Ice hurts two very annoying pokemon and has the IV advantage.
yeah im sorry but I just don't understand why you would bother running HP Fire. Ferrothorn already gets OHKOed by Focus Blast after a CM boost, Skarmory gets OHKOed and running HP Fire on the off chance you run into a sun team that doesn't run Volcarona (which pretty much hard counters you) it just seems like a waste of time. HP Fire does not even get a guarenteed OHKO on Skarm (assuming I calced it right you need SR up or drought), and Focus Blast is still your best option against Jirachi.
Sorry for pushing this but I still legitimately don't quite understand why you run HP Fire instead of HP Ice. Ice still hits the grass types in the metagame, handle the Dragon pokemon such as Salamence and Dragonite which wall your STAB moves (and I guess Lati@s too although they sometimes run CM) as well as Ground pokemon such as Gliscor and Landorus.
HP Fire lets you hit Grass pokemon, hits the steel pokemon you already cover with Focus Blast and prevent you from potentially beating Terrakion and Infernape. Im still at a loss man.
Sorry for pushing this but I still legitimately don't quite understand why you run HP Fire instead of HP Ice. Ice still hits the grass types in the metagame, handle the Dragon pokemon such as Salamence and Dragonite which wall your STAB moves (and I guess Lati@s too although they sometimes run CM) as well as Ground pokemon such as Gliscor and Landorus.
HP Fire lets you hit Grass pokemon, hits the steel pokemon you already cover with Focus Blast and prevent you from potentially beating Terrakion and Infernape. Im still at a loss man.
I think you mean Gliscor. You'd need a fighting gem to KO Skarm with CC (LO lets you hurt it a lot regardless.)
Anyway, this is incredible. Rock Gem lets Adamant +2 Terrakion just muscle through pretty much its only real counter and feign a choice item with Close Combat. O_o It's doing 98.3% - 115.3% with Stone Edge. With LO, SR helps you get the KO, but poison heal will likely screw you over if you mispredict and they protect as you attack instead of Swords Dance again.
Edit: Just tried it on an old ss team and swept. The guy had a gliscor, too (which I KOed with stone edge). O_O
Overall, CM virizion has just been lackluster for me. It takes two CMs to do any real damage with giga drain and LO, focus blast is unreliable, and hp fire doesn't even ohko jirachi.
Sure, it may be good for countering rain, but I've never needed to do that. Give me the LO SD set anyday. Stone edge mangles volc. And if gliscor really bothers me, I can run hp ice. Plus, I don't get laughed at by rain teams with sect, roserade, celebi, etc.
Sure, it may be good for countering rain, but I've never needed to do that. Give me the LO SD set anyday. Stone edge mangles volc. And if gliscor really bothers me, I can run hp ice. Plus, I don't get laughed at by rain teams with sect, roserade, celebi, etc.
Calm mind Virizion can be a pain for stall, but generally if you want a pain for stall you would use Reunicles which is much better.
JabbaTheGriffin said:
lol.
SD Virizion doesn't get the recovery that CM Virizion gets in Giga Drain. SD Virizion also uses Life Orb pretty often so it might have to shell out 16% of its HP every turn thanks to passive damage. Sweepers need to be durable in my opinion.
That's an issue faced by any other sweeper that's vulnerable to Sandstorm damage and likes to use Life Orb. Statistically, Virizion has great special bulk and decent physical bulk, which is better than plenty of other sweepers with the same other issues can say.
Use a Life Orb. It has all the power it needs. You now OHKO Scizor and Skarmory after SR. You do >50% to both Blissey and Jirachi. How much more power do you want? Sure, you may say that Sandstorm + LO wears you down, but you get that all back with Giga Drain pretty quickly, with the right prediction. Sure, Focus Blast is inaccurate, but for it's worth, it's a decent compromise.
How does NP Celebi break stall? The opponent sticks a Blissey in front of you. Celebi goes bye-bye. People seem to be under the misconception that you are completely free from status with Natural Cure. You're not. You still get Toxic'd like every other special sweeper. Sure you can cure yourself when you switch out, but guess what happens when you switch out? You just wasted your Nasty Plot boosts. On the other hand, CM Virizion completely busts up your common stall cores, killing everything not named Blissey, Jirachi or Latias, the first two having to be over 60% otherwise they risk getting OHKOed too.
TL:DR - Use Life Orb on CM Virizion before you complain about it being too weak. The benefits are well worth the (small) setbacks.
You see, this is why I try not to run too many special sweepers on my team. Because of virizion and other CM'ers. After a few of these it's pretty hard to beat. I normally try to run one or two special sweepers, and then the rest of my team is just pure physical offense. Virizion is blessed with a pretty awesome typing too. Flying type moves aren't commonly used in OU, and fire type moves can just get absorbed by heatran.
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Facade
- Superpower
Alright, I've kept this set secret long enough. This set is a complete GOD in this metagame!! It's so frickin' deadly! Jolly Breloom is so good, it can sleep Gliscor before he can Taunt and 3HKO with Facade + SR. Spore those NP Celebi on the switch, 2HKO with SR and Facade. It's also an amazing counter to Balloon Excadrill (barring Return), Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and can outspeed and OHKO all Rotom-w except Timid variants and Scarf. Spore is so fucking useful for breaking down defense teams. Often times, the opponent has only 1-2 pokemon that outspeed breloom. You can lead with it and incapacitate a key defensive member, and proceed to wreak havoc since the only really good counters to this thing are Skarmory and bulky Celebi. pesky SpDef Heatran? Outspeed and OHKO. Even vs. offensive teams, you do amazingly. Come in on a rogue Earthquake, a bulky Water (You totally wall Rotom! Come in on a Hydro Pump, take 48% avg, and then you either OHKO or it switches out and you've gained back half of what you took!), or a Crunch and one of their key offensive members is either incapacitated or OHKOD (offensive teams dont have a reputation for having enough defensive backbone to take repeated facades/superpowers, ESPECIALLY if you spore their defensive pivot)
encourage everyone to try this set out.
and i just saw raikaria's terrakion counters post. none of those pokemon beat double dance rock gem. none. 3, if you count priority, but none of them enjoy a close combat (ohko to 70% damage...)
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Facade
- Superpower
Alright, I've kept this set secret long enough. This set is a complete GOD in this metagame!! It's so frickin' deadly! Jolly Breloom is so good, it can sleep Gliscor before he can Taunt and 3HKO with Facade + SR. Spore those NP Celebi on the switch, 2HKO with SR and Facade. It's also an amazing counter to Balloon Excadrill (barring Return), Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and can outspeed and OHKO all Rotom-w except Timid variants and Scarf. Spore is so fucking useful for breaking down defense teams. Often times, the opponent has only 1-2 pokemon that outspeed breloom. You can lead with it and incapacitate a key defensive member, and proceed to wreak havoc since the only really good counters to this thing are Skarmory and bulky Celebi. pesky SpDef Heatran? Outspeed and OHKO. Even vs. offensive teams, you do amazingly. Come in on a rogue Earthquake, a bulky Water (You totally wall Rotom! Come in on a Hydro Pump, take 48% avg, and then you either OHKO or it switches out and you've gained back half of what you took!), or a Crunch and one of their key offensive members is either incapacitated or OHKOD (offensive teams dont have a reputation for having enough defensive backbone to take repeated facades/superpowers, ESPECIALLY if you spore their defensive pivot)
encourage everyone to try this set out.
and i just saw raikaria's terrakion counters post. none of those pokemon beat double dance rock gem. none. 3, if you count priority, but none of them enjoy a close combat (ohko to 70% damage...)
Terrakion is one of the only if not the only poke i use that sweeps consistenly for me.
That's saying a lot, since i suck. More than anything else, even Ash. Or Gary. Man, he SUCKS.
Anyway, Virizion for me is also pretty good. Not as good as terrakion, but they aren't comparable IMO.
Terrakion is direct. Virizion is technical. Both are very good, and they can even be on the same team without many problems (only shared weakness is Psychic, i believe).
That's saying a lot, since i suck. More than anything else, even Ash. Or Gary. Man, he SUCKS.
Anyway, Virizion for me is also pretty good. Not as good as terrakion, but they aren't comparable IMO.
Terrakion is direct. Virizion is technical. Both are very good, and they can even be on the same team without many problems (only shared weakness is Psychic, i believe).
Whenever I see Terrakion, I just think, "Gamefreak is trolling us with that added special defense boost."
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