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Dragonite
- Thread starter KurashiDragon
- Start date
Waterfall is definately a superior option with all those balloon users out there.
Thank both of you
Dont you need sub to block status? A statused 'Nite is a worthless one no? Basically you are forced to use espeon with this guy (which may not be a bad thing i guess)
EDIT: missed lum berry there... still there are a few threats that dont mind your berry... jelly and ferro instantly come to mind... you eat one berry and that is it.
I guess this is more effective against offensive oriented teams
On that note, Brick Break would be a viable option, wouldn't it?
It hits Steels, so Magnezone isn't that necessary.
^ Yes, it always activates if you have 100%.
Multiscale reduces direct damage, aka the damage dealt to you by a move. Damage dealt through moves like Toxic are not halved, but those dealt by moves like Tackle are.
Does mono-attacking DNite work anymore?
Something like:
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
~ Roost
~ Substitute
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
EVs allow DNite to outpace Excadrill in Sandstorm after two Dances. Substitute lets you dodge status, which would otherwise cripple DNite.
Something like:
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
~ Roost
~ Substitute
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
EVs allow DNite to outpace Excadrill in Sandstorm after two Dances. Substitute lets you dodge status, which would otherwise cripple DNite.
There's not much point in out-speeding Excadrill after two Dragon Dances if Dragonite's only move is not very effective against it. I would run Dragon Tail over Dragon Claw and drop Substitute for Fire Punch/Waterfall/Brick Break or Light Screen if I really wanted to use a single attack.
If you can reliably remove all Steels then MonoBulkySubDDnite would probably be unstoppable but in that case you could just spam Specs DM and Band Outrage all over the place anyway so why bother...
I thought it would be obvious the limitations that a mono Dragon has...
Bronzong stalls you out of Roosts with HP Ice and wins with Gyro Ball.
SpDef Jirachi can only be set up on if you get lucky because Iron Head breaks the Sub on average and Dragonite will still be forced out for fear of Paralysis once it has Subbed down to below 25%. It isn't safe setting up in front of a Jirachi anyway for fear of a CM set.
Ferrothorn can easily get you to below 25% health with Gyro Ball and Leech Seed or TWave to stop you. Although Ferro is easier to set up on because you can Roost early to waste its Gyro Balls, but obviously this is risky being a prediction game.
Bronzong stalls you out of Roosts with HP Ice and wins with Gyro Ball.
SpDef Jirachi can only be set up on if you get lucky because Iron Head breaks the Sub on average and Dragonite will still be forced out for fear of Paralysis once it has Subbed down to below 25%. It isn't safe setting up in front of a Jirachi anyway for fear of a CM set.
Ferrothorn can easily get you to below 25% health with Gyro Ball and Leech Seed or TWave to stop you. Although Ferro is easier to set up on because you can Roost early to waste its Gyro Balls, but obviously this is risky being a prediction game.
When SpD jirachi sees a dragon dancing dragonite, the first thing it goes for is Iron head? Body slam will never break your subs and you can simply roost up to reactivate multiscale (which cuts in half the damage done to your substitutes as well).
Bronzong is a bad pokemon and doesn't do anything. Without multiscale he does around 1/3rd of your health with hp ice. You can boost in his face and roost off the damage as you laugh at him. Gyro ball doesn't do anything to you until you reach +6 spe4ed, at which point...it does less than 50% to dragonite. =/
Not going to comment on ferrothorn since the same thing happens to him.
Bronzong is a bad pokemon and doesn't do anything. Without multiscale he does around 1/3rd of your health with hp ice. You can boost in his face and roost off the damage as you laugh at him. Gyro ball doesn't do anything to you until you reach +6 spe4ed, at which point...it does less than 50% to dragonite. =/
Not going to comment on ferrothorn since the same thing happens to him.
Wow, Jirachi's Iron Head breaks Dragonite's Sub? That's sort of embarrassing :x
Bulky Gyarados counters it pretty good. Intimidate and weak DClaw wont be breaking through Gyarados, and Gyarados can Stone Edge to break Multi Scale-activated Substitute 75% of the time and then DTail it out. Gyarados can even start setting up DD or something.
Bulky Gyarados counters it pretty good. Intimidate and weak DClaw wont be breaking through Gyarados, and Gyarados can Stone Edge to break Multi Scale-activated Substitute 75% of the time and then DTail it out. Gyarados can even start setting up DD or something.
I think you're vastly overestimating the threat Dragon Claw poses to these Pokemon.
Bronzong forces the Dragonite user to Roost 2 times every 1 time it uses DD and will need to DD up to at least +4 before chancing a 2HKO, in all this time you can be hit with Toxic, Reflect, a crit, or Bronzong can CM up itself. It is Bronzong that has the freedom to do as it pleases, not Dragonite.
Jirachi is so versatile that Dragonite just should not be entertaining the idea of setting up on it with just Dragon Claw as its only move. ScarfRachi Iron Heads, Ice Punches or Tricks to its heart's content. CM Rachi, as you put it, sets up in your face. Screens Rachi uses it as an easy opportunity to set up for teammates and Dragonite will be toothless with a Reflect up. SpDef Rachi is the only variant that Mono Dragonite has a chance of defeating, and you can't use 'the opponent will use Body Slam' as an argument because you can talk anything up by saying stuff like that. You should assume Jirachi always uses the best move because you're assuming Dragonite is always using the best move and compare them that way.
Ferrothorn is much easier to set up on because wasting Gyro Ball PP is much easier especially if you Roost early, but that is again putting player skill into the equation and you can equally say an informed Ferrothorn user will know that Dragonite poses no threat until it is severely boosted and will use Leech Seed or Thunder Wave when it is at half health, predicting the Roost instead of the Substitute that will eventually lead it into a dead end.
Bronzong forces the Dragonite user to Roost 2 times every 1 time it uses DD and will need to DD up to at least +4 before chancing a 2HKO, in all this time you can be hit with Toxic, Reflect, a crit, or Bronzong can CM up itself. It is Bronzong that has the freedom to do as it pleases, not Dragonite.
Jirachi is so versatile that Dragonite just should not be entertaining the idea of setting up on it with just Dragon Claw as its only move. ScarfRachi Iron Heads, Ice Punches or Tricks to its heart's content. CM Rachi, as you put it, sets up in your face. Screens Rachi uses it as an easy opportunity to set up for teammates and Dragonite will be toothless with a Reflect up. SpDef Rachi is the only variant that Mono Dragonite has a chance of defeating, and you can't use 'the opponent will use Body Slam' as an argument because you can talk anything up by saying stuff like that. You should assume Jirachi always uses the best move because you're assuming Dragonite is always using the best move and compare them that way.
Ferrothorn is much easier to set up on because wasting Gyro Ball PP is much easier especially if you Roost early, but that is again putting player skill into the equation and you can equally say an informed Ferrothorn user will know that Dragonite poses no threat until it is severely boosted and will use Leech Seed or Thunder Wave when it is at half health, predicting the Roost instead of the Substitute that will eventually lead it into a dead end.
Personally i love Dragonite and i think that its possible that we may have overlooked his rain potential. Theres DD in rain with aqua tail for sure but maybe try a HUrricane Thunder set maybe something like:
Dragonite @ Leftovers
252 Speed - 252 SpA - 4HP
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Surf/Dragon Pulse
personally i have never tried this set but ive been wanting to, so ill get back to you guys on that.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
252 Speed - 252 SpA - 4HP
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Surf/Dragon Pulse
personally i have never tried this set but ive been wanting to, so ill get back to you guys on that.
I never tried a special variant for use in rain, but I was wondering on how effective it would be in actual games. I'm going to try that set out when I have a chance and also slap on a focus specs, drop agility for Draco Meteor and give that a go as well.
I won't name the player, but he uses Dragonite frighteningly effectively in a Rain Stall Team. I don't know the spread, but I'd figure it's similar to the parashuffler set, except it abuses super powerful STABs to deal with certain threats.
Hurricane | Thunder | Dragon Tail | Roost
Hurricane | Thunder | Dragon Tail | Roost
Since mold breaker nullifies other pokemon's abilities (like levitate) does it also nullify multiscale??