Full out physical since you have methods of taking out things like Excadrill (Balloon Terrakion/ Lucario).
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Full out physical since you have methods of taking out things like Excadrill (Balloon Terrakion/ Lucario).
Special has stuff like psyshock and Reuniclus. Reuniclus also checks excadrill and the above luke does too. The biggests threats are sun + flare blitz and rain + starmie as they are impossible to set up on (ohkos latios for example). Thundurus and dragonite are also a pain if you don't prepare for them.
Hyper Offense is good mostly because Deoxys-S is good.
I think most people prefer to use "tried and true" methods. I basically tell any friends who want to go on "Ferrothorn, Tyran, Scizor, Toed, Ferrothorn, entry hazards, weather, Ferrothorn (seriously, almost every team)".
My favorite "next to never seen" is Rock Polish Relicanth, 150 BP STAB with no recoil? Yes please. Most people don't see it coming, next thing you know their Dragonite is getting KOed by Head Smash, Tyran is lol, and ferrothorn, though annoying, can be dealt with. As to setting up, I also like BPing speed one way or another, but Polish is there in case I can't. Is Aqua Tail or Waterfall better for stab water, if anyone knows?
^ Waterfall is better for its perfect accuracy and 20% chance to flinch usually. I don't think you'll be missing out on key OHKOs or 2HKOs from using Waterfall over Aqua Tail.
As for Lucario vs Excadrill, I'd Aura Sphere right away if I know that Excadrill was gonna stay to Rock Slide. If the opponent has anything decent to stop Lucario, he can simply switch that in to take the Vacuum Wave, saving Excadrill for later.
LO Darmanitan seems to deserve more use over Scarf Daruma in the sun. For me, the LO + Sheer Force synergy is wasted by Darmanitan holding a Scarf. Yes, Darmanitan can double up as a revenge-killer / scout, but doesn't a Cholorophyll mon do that already? Scarf Daruma seems analogous to Scarf Haxorus - it deserves more power. Granted, unlike Haxorus, it is hard to find anything that can survive a Sun + Sheer Force-boosted Flare Blitz, but I think I would prefer the flexibility of LO, not being forced out by Heatran or Dragonite, but rather finishing them off with a successive Superpower / Rock Slide. I'd also rather not spam a recoil move if it's unnecessary for the kill.
If Band Haxorus can pull it off, then there's no reason why Darmanitan can't. With 95 base speed and Jolly Nature, it will be faster than a non-scarfed Rotom-W, Band Haxorus, Mamoswine, Dragonite, Gyarados, Excadrill (in sun) and Modest Celebi, so it still has a good potential to sweep without Scarf. With LO + Sheer Force + Sun, it should be doing more damage than Haxorus, despite being Jolly.
I think a simple set of Flare Blitz | Fire Punch | Rock Slide | Superpower @ LO, would wreck shit up.
EDIT: Admittedly, I may be grossly underestimating the power of Scarf Daruma
As for Lucario vs Excadrill, I'd Aura Sphere right away if I know that Excadrill was gonna stay to Rock Slide. If the opponent has anything decent to stop Lucario, he can simply switch that in to take the Vacuum Wave, saving Excadrill for later.
LO Darmanitan seems to deserve more use over Scarf Daruma in the sun. For me, the LO + Sheer Force synergy is wasted by Darmanitan holding a Scarf. Yes, Darmanitan can double up as a revenge-killer / scout, but doesn't a Cholorophyll mon do that already? Scarf Daruma seems analogous to Scarf Haxorus - it deserves more power. Granted, unlike Haxorus, it is hard to find anything that can survive a Sun + Sheer Force-boosted Flare Blitz, but I think I would prefer the flexibility of LO, not being forced out by Heatran or Dragonite, but rather finishing them off with a successive Superpower / Rock Slide. I'd also rather not spam a recoil move if it's unnecessary for the kill.
If Band Haxorus can pull it off, then there's no reason why Darmanitan can't. With 95 base speed and Jolly Nature, it will be faster than a non-scarfed Rotom-W, Band Haxorus, Mamoswine, Dragonite, Gyarados, Excadrill (in sun) and Modest Celebi, so it still has a good potential to sweep without Scarf. With LO + Sheer Force + Sun, it should be doing more damage than Haxorus, despite being Jolly.
I think a simple set of Flare Blitz | Fire Punch | Rock Slide | Superpower @ LO, would wreck shit up.
EDIT: Admittedly, I may be grossly underestimating the power of Scarf Daruma
I actually am a pretty big fan of this set. HP Grass barely outdamages rain-boosted Hydro Pump, so it only has the use of hitting Gastrodon (it wasn't going to overcome Jellicent anytime soon). Vaporeon will be eternally walled by Ferrothorn regardless.
Rest and Toxic, on the other hand, will hit all of the above threats as you've pointed out and given Vaporeon's natural bulk, it could easily resort to stalling out opposing bulky waters or some other pokemon resistant to its attacks. Throwing out Toxic on the first move would be the best choice, since the Lati twins, Virizion, etc are extremely eager to switch in. Smacking them around with status first thing would definitely nab you the momentum. Base 110 SpA is not to be underestimated either, especially when paired with the great offensive type that is water.
FUCK DEO-S
That (BAN ME PLEASE) might be the biggest douchebag in all of OU. Thankfully we don't have that shitass lead metagame of DPPt so it's not automatically broken, but now no one has the foggiest idea whether it's the lead or the revenge killer set and Psycho Boost is a good move which means you're fucked if you guess the wrong set, either having a pokémon maimed in two moves, killed by Psycho Boost or Taunted in its own face, or you get hazards in your side. No, I'm not trying to pull a DPPt Salamence argument here, I'm just saying it must be the most annoying pokémon in existence, losing only to Breloom and Gliscor. God.
I really don't see it as a threat. I mean if it's a lead, I easily rapid spin hazards away and if its a revenge killer, anything with Gyro Ball pwns it.
Everytime I use it, however, I feel as if it does its job. Rarely ever does Deoxy-S become dead weight.
I can see why Deoxys-S loses to Gliscor, but I can't see it losing to Breloom of all things(outspeed + Taunt in your face, or just directly Psycho Boost/Ice Punch your head off)
Play one game of Ubers with a good user of Lugia, then get back to me on that.
Rapid Spin away hazards with what? Forry gets its shit wrecked by Fire Punch, Excadrill needs Sandstorm to outspeed which isn't happening early game since if you try Tyranitar->Excadrill you'll eat a Superpower, and Starmie gets wrecked by Thunderbolt.
And don't say Fire Punch is uncommon because it's definitely becoming the standard on the ladder.
I think that what he meant was that only Gliscor and Breloom are more annoying than Deoxys-S, not that they were the only Pokemon that could beat Deoxys-S in a straight matchup.
Yeah stopping Deoxys-S from setting up SR/Spikes/Screens ranges from very hard to impossible. Even Prankster Taunt doesn't bother it because it can Magic Coat the Taunt right back at you.
It's part of the reason why I use Chopletar to deal with that annoying alien. Assuming they decide to lead with it and I lead with Ttar.
It's part of the reason why I use Chopletar to deal with that annoying alien. Assuming they decide to lead with it and I lead with Ttar.
You wait until it switches out after setting hazards or dies (with you know, frailty and stuff). No spinner can come in on Deoxys.
Btw, it's not a question of if Deoxys-S gets its hazards down, it's how you deal with it.
It almost always gets two layers of something, I get why Mario was ranting, most of the annoyance factor is how much you are forced to sit there and just take whatever it wants to do. For Christ's sake it's Pokemon not prison.
Deoxys-S people? Really? All you have to do is smack it a few times to get rid of it, spin away the hazards and then that's it. If it uses screens, then just wait it out, using a phazer to prevent anyone from setting up, or better yet use brick break if you have it. Either way, it's not that difficult to deal with.
If you're playing shitty opponents maybe. Good players will use the momentum forced by SR + Spikes to prevent you from spinning for all of early- and and almost all of mid-game. Especially since they'll know who your spinner is thanks to Team Preview. And after Deo-S dies, they'll have the momentum advantage with the revenge kill.
Besides, how in the world is 50/90/90 considered super frail? Deo-S has the freedom to invest in its defenses since it already outspeeds everything...
I meant losing in being the most annoying pokémon in the world. Besides, Ice Punch? Isn't Ice Beam stronger on everything it needs to hit ?__?
As Meru said, while Bronzong and Forretress could shit all over Deo-S with Gyro Ball and Rapid Spin, people finally caught up on that and started using Fire Punch. You can't easily stop it laying down hazards, you can't easily spin those hazards, and you may as well eat a STAB Psycho Boost, Superpower or coverage move if you try to muscle through it before it uses Spikes/SR.
Yeah, massive douche.
I didn't say Super Frail but it is frail uninvested (which the clear majority are). And in my comment I mentioned how it depends on your actions, if Deoxys is laying down hazards it's typically only getting two layers but w/e. I agree on the part about momentum (the part of my post you didn't read, also w/e), it is kind of a jerk.
It is not impossible, Magic Bounce Espeon does fine against non Deoxys-S Shadow Ball. The magical cat can also Reflect and Light Screen like Deoxys-S.
Also a lot of things have Magic Coat due to HGSS tutor. For example its brother Deoxys-D, and also avoids being statused by Toxic or WoW from another things.
Xatu can do the same, but Xatu is usually physical-defense oriented.
Deoxys-S is frail, decent-good defenses but HP sucks, for being bulky needs 252 HP and it makes less ofensive-threating, it is the same like Rotom appliances ofensive orientated or Dusclops/Dusknoir.
Why Spiritomb is not good at walling as it looks? One reason is because its HP sucks. Deoxys-S is the same.
You don't use SR/Spikes if opposing Espeon are alive.
The thing is, Deoxys-S suffers from 4MS. It basically has to take 4 of Taunt, Magic Coat, SR, Spikes, Psycho Boost, Fire Punch, Superpower or Ice Beam. It can't do everything at once... I mean, SR/Psycho Boost/Superpower/Fire Punch pretty much leaves you with little room for Taunt or Magic Coat, or even Spikes. ._______.
Breloom is usually badly poisoned by Toxic Orb, and can avoid being slept by its own Spore.
But count on team preview.
Deoxys can do only a different thing at the same time.
Also Deoxys-S is a Pursuit fodder. Like Latios when they throw their -2 Sp Att lower, they say "Pursuit me"!
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