np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Rayquaza_ said:
So I just read the current suspect nominations so far and I'm absolutely disgusted from what I see.
Volcarona? Excadrill? Deoxys-S? Baton Pass? What the hell are you people talking about?

You realize that you can't have a perfect counter for everything in a team made of 6 pokemon, right?

Anyway, guess who checks all of those threats at once? Yes, Lugia.
I still see it as a very healthy addition to the tier.

Before massive flaming from the usual people, consider this: there are lots of "unban Garchomp" posts, who is far more threatening than Lugia even without Sandstorm and doesn't really add anything new to the OU tier. If Garchomp is allowed back to OU, then Lugia is going to be even more useful to the OU metagame.
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You basically answered your own post.
 
edit: Dragonite is not broken, people have problems due to underpreparing their team for it, it should only get one dragon dance max unless you are stupid at which point you revenge it with a scarfer, priority or excadrill, if you are not carrying these then that is your fault
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If you weren't carrying a blaziken counter and let him get more than one speed boost in before revenging him with a scarfer that outspeeds a base 80 pokemon after a +1, then that was your own fault too then, wasn't it? All of the things you mentioned in your post also beat blaziken with good prediction. Yet, he was still banned.

When you put it that way, blaziken actually has MORE counters/checks than dragonite.
 
Godsend said:
Why don't people just nominate Sand Rush. It'd be a good way to keep Excadrill in check while also making sand in general much more manageable. Exca isn't broken without Sand Rush.
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Do you find Sand Rush Stoutland broken? I guess not. The strong part here isn't the ability, it's the ability combined with Excadrill's stats. ie: Excadrill itself.

I don't really find it broken though (lol nominated in all BW suspect tests and never got a simple majority) but all of these "Let's ban abilities to save obviously broken pokémon!" arguments should stop.
 
I really want to see Excadrill go. It's really not fun to see more than 50% of teams using him and it's breaking the speed tiers. I don't mind a smashpass ban either, but first I want to see that excadrill go along with it.
 
NoUserName said:
99% of the time it is impossible to RK Blaziken, he outspeeds you. Dragonite does not.
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Excadrill outspeeds after a +1. So does any jolly scarfer of base 80 speed or higher. Terrakion, Latias, Latios, Landorus, etc. Blaziken could protect after he forces a switch and uses sword's dance but that's a best case scenario for him, and SD/Protect/Flare blitz/Hi jump kick gets walled by more than just slowbro.

Edit: Jellicient, Bulky gyara, Rain teams with any fighting resistant pokemon save for toxicroak, dragonite, etc.
 
Rayquaza_ said:
So I just read the current suspect nominations so far and I'm absolutely disgusted from what I see.
Volcarona? Excadrill? Deoxys-S? Baton Pass? What the hell are you people talking about?

You realize that you can't have a perfect counter for everything in a team made of 6 pokemon, right?

Anyway, guess who checks all of those threats at once? Yes, Lugia.
I still see it as a very healthy addition to the tier.

Before massive flaming from the usual people, consider this: there are lots of "unban Garchomp" posts, who is far more threatening than Lugia even without Sandstorm and doesn't really add anything new to the OU tier. If Garchomp is allowed back to OU, then Lugia is going to be even more useful to the OU metagame.
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there aren't many "unban garchomp" posts and jesus…Lugia discussion again
 
Please there will be no talking about unbanning the following pokemon: Giratina, Ho-oh, Lugia, Resh, and Zek. This list is not limited to these pokemon however.
 
pedrokabu said:
Why no one tries to ban Tyranitar, or Sand Stream, or even Stealth Rock? At least without SR the scenario could be more interesting.
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I am not sure about SR since I actually can see us having a good meta without it, though things like volcarona and dragonite will be running wild.

as for tyranitar or sand stream...i always was fine with black and white being a weather war but wanted to either keep all auto weathers or just not have it at all.
 
lordkira said:
I am not sure about SR since I actually can see us having a good meta without it, though things like volcarona and dragonite will be running wild.

as for tyranitar or sand stream...i always was fine with black and white being a weather war but wanted to either keep all auto weathers or just not have it at all.
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I agree about Sandstorm (and Sand Stream and/or Tyranitar, etc.), I like to see not only the weathers in OU, but also non-weather teams perservering in this meta. I asked this only because so many people are eager to want Drizzle/Drought banned, but usually they don't talk about Sands.

I understand your point about SR, but respectfully disagree, the mere existence of SR keep many good/interesting Pokémon undesired in most teams, only because they are weak to SR damage. IMHO, this shrank the metagame in a few options. I guess if SR was banned, more Pokémon will lose an important (and, in some cases, their only) drawback and will become more useable.

Obviously I'm only supposing, but I was wanting to talk something about SR.
 
alphatron said:
Excadrill outspeeds after a +1. So does any jolly scarfer of base 80 speed or higher. Terrakion, Latias, Latios, Landorus, etc. Blaziken could protect after he forces a switch and uses sword's dance but that's a best case scenario for him, and SD/Protect/Flare blitz/Hi jump kick gets walled by more than just slowbro.

Edit: Jellicient, Bulky gyara, Rain teams with any fighting resistant pokemon save for toxicroak, dragonite, etc.
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Air Baloon Blaziken says hello!

Since Jolly Excadrill only serves to outspeed Adamant Excadrill.
 
Most of us did damage calcs for blaziken back before the ban. Without the life orb, he just isn't worth it. I'm pretty sure you need a life orb in order to KO Gliscor with Blaze kick under sunlight.
 
And Latios can run hp fire for jirachi and ferrothorn, and psyshock for blissey. And thundurus can run hammer arm for blissey and grass knot for gastrodon and quagsire.

Most of the good sweepers can run good coverage moves to bait in and take out their supposed counters. Blaziken is no different. Why does that break him when it doesn't break the others?
 
Excadrill outspeeds after a +1. So does any jolly scarfer of base 80 speed or higher. Terrakion, Latias, Latios, Landorus, etc.
 
We have to assume we play against smart players. Those things are checks, not counters. The Blaziken's player can switch out and use it later.

Blaziken can also go mixed with Protect/HP Ice/Fire Blast/HJkick
 
I only started laddering BW this round so I don't know much about Blaziken. I sort of feel like it would be Volcarona on steroids, but you have a point - it only starts out with 80 Base Speed compared to Volcarona's 100. And unlike Volcarona, it would have a tougher time getting past Psychic mons like Latis and Slowbro.

If Blaziken gets nominated for OU, I'd probably go for it.
 
X5Dragon said:
Pretty much to satisfy everyone, and because creating a clear skies teir would create a host of new underused tiers that everyone will abandon due to boredom, I suggest the following, hitting multiple birds with one stone:

Ban Auto weather abilities in OU: Sand Stream, Snow Warning, Drought and Drizzle.

That's it, if someone wants to set rain dance with damp rock and then bring in swift swimmers, or abuse snow veil and the like after using hail, so be it. The point is that it requires effort and an actual turn to set up weather and then having to maintain it later on as opposed to...doing nothing at all. Also the fact that Cloud Nine is gimped and given to utterly useless pokemon in OU supports this.

Presto, no more Excadrill nominations, no more suggestions to ban Sand Stream + Sand Rush, etc.

As for banning D-Nite, Thundrus and Volca along with the rest, it makes me laugh and I won't bother talking about it.
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We can ban, they can copypaste.

I can understand banning automatic weather, but Snow Warning?
Snow Warning have never abused.

Also weather stall without permanent weather sucks.


Kefka said:
Please stop nominating Excadrill every single round. It's not true that it makes Hyper Offense unplayable. It's OHKO'd by most Pokémon you would use in a HO team, so it can't use Swords Dance safely. If it kills something you have a free setup turn for an Air Balloon Terrakion / Landorus / SD Breloom / whatever, and Excadrill is not the only thing that makes you sac Pokémon in a Hyper Offense team.
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I agree. The best thing we can do is not to stop keeping on hitting and don't let SD it.
 
Rurushu said:
Name one.
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Tornadus, Staraptor, and Kyurem
And Specs Solar Power Charizard hits like a flaming truck (that immediately self-destructs later with residual damage but it seriously dents a lot of OU). It might not have the best coverage but it's a good special attacker if you can work it right.
 
Rurushu said:
Both are outclassed by Volcarona who performs exceedingly well even with its 4x Stealth Rock weakness and vulnerability to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. They are bad to begin with, removing stealth rock wouldn't change that.
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They usally perform different roles from Volcarona so the term "outclassed" is not completely applicable in this situation. I'm pretty certain that they would be solid pokes if Stealth Rock was non-existent, and I wouldn't say they are "bad to begin with". A free-switching Solar Powered Charizard in the Sun would be one bad ass poke if you asked me, but theorymoning is theorymoning. Almost everything looks good on paper.
 
WarriorPrince said:
They usally perform different roles from Volcarona so the term "outclassed" is not completely applicable in this situation. I'm pretty certain that they would be solid pokes if Stealth Rock was non-existent, and I wouldn't say they are "bad to begin with". A free-switching Solar Powered Charizard in the Sun would be one bad ass poke if you asked me, but theorymoning is theorymoning. Almost everything looks good on paper.
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I used to run Charizard in the Sun and I can say from experience that it's a beast, but it's speed, residual damage, and near impossibility of going mixed really hurt it, that and SR.
 
How is Yanmega a terrible pokemon? IMO, it would easily have been OU in gen 4 if SR didn't exist, and it would at least be viable now...

As for Charizard, in gen 2 it was a pretty decent Pokemon. Bellyzard wasn't just for noobs back then. It didn't end up being OU but that doesn't mean it didn't have its place in the metagame. I wouldn't be surprised to see Charizard getting a lot of usage in a Rocks Free gen 5 OU, what with Solar Power making it absurdly powerful... Its biggest problem is it takes residual damage like no other.

And really anything with even a 2x weak to SR is a lot less useable than it would be otherwise. I don't personally want to ban SR or anything but I don't think it's fair to say it doesn't make a lot of decent pokemon trash.

edit: lol i responded way late, left the page open for awhile @_@ but still...
 
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