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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Good luck stalling against a Hydreigon without a pink blob.
Shadow Tag, I believe.
I personally don't think that deoxys-s is broken. Can't jirachi absorb most of his attacks pretty well?? He doesn't get any fire or ground type moves, so the only thing jirachi really needs to fear is hidden power. If deoxys-s dares to taunt you, he risks getting para-hax from body slam. After paralysis kicks in, deoxys-s is pretty much useless.
Offical wynaut expert here. (not really jk)
It was banned in 4th gen simply because it had the speed to outspeed key walls such as skarmory and hippowdon, encore then up, and then proceed to switch to a counter and get one completely free turn of set up. In early 4th gen a completely free turn of set up was deemed to be much under the support clause. Its kinda silly, but that is the exact reason why, if suspect testing continued, it would probably be unbanned along with Doexys-D, but alas 4th gen ended 1 year ago and its frozen in uber.
It was banned in 4th gen simply because it had the speed to outspeed key walls such as skarmory and hippowdon, encore then up, and then proceed to switch to a counter and get one completely free turn of set up. In early 4th gen a completely free turn of set up was deemed to be much under the support clause. Its kinda silly, but that is the exact reason why, if suspect testing continued, it would probably be unbanned along with Doexys-D, but alas 4th gen ended 1 year ago and its frozen in uber.
Oh yea, forgot about Deoxys-S.
Lol, mixed Deoxys-S is weak - it really can't afford to go mixed since it only has 95 base offense, but that's the only way it has a chance to break through stall. I bet Magic Guard Alakazam is a much better sweeper than Deoxys-S.
I don't think it's the sweeper aspect of Deo-S that makes it allegedly broken, mainly just the unpredictability of it. Delta 2777 had a pretty good nomination for it, iff I recall correctly.
Being unpredictable can certainly be gamebreaking, but the unpredictability of Deoxys-S doesn't break games. I find Dragonite to make better use of unpredictability, especially if it's in a Rain Team, since you don't know whether it's gonna spam Hurricanes and Thunder, or simply start DDing and sweep you.
Team Preview also helps a lot in determining Deoxys-S's set. If it's paired with a Gorebyss, it's most likely a Dual Screener. If it's the only mon on the team that can lay hazards, it's most likely a hazard lead. If they have other mons to set up hazards, it's most likely an offensive Deoxys-S.
Team Preview also helps a lot in determining Deoxys-S's set. If it's paired with a Gorebyss, it's most likely a Dual Screener. If it's the only mon on the team that can lay hazards, it's most likely a hazard lead. If they have other mons to set up hazards, it's most likely an offensive Deoxys-S.
While his offensive stats aren't anywhere near strong enough to consider him for a ban because of sweeping potential, we should consider that without Exadrill, Deoxys S now becomes the fastest common pokemon in OU, and is a better revenge killer because of it.
And now a serious question (It's discussion worthy, but not enough so do earn its own thread). What determines a pokemon to be "ban-worthy"? Better yet, what does a pokemon need to have to be seriously considered by the voters. Is it a lack of hard counters, a few number of checks, the ability to "win the game" given one free turn of setup (I'm looking at you Thunderus). What defines ban-worthy?
And now a serious question (It's discussion worthy, but not enough so do earn its own thread). What determines a pokemon to be "ban-worthy"? Better yet, what does a pokemon need to have to be seriously considered by the voters. Is it a lack of hard counters, a few number of checks, the ability to "win the game" given one free turn of setup (I'm looking at you Thunderus). What defines ban-worthy?
There is a certain trend in Smogon's gen 5 bans. The voters like to ban anything thats fast. Everything that was banned in gen 5 was banned partly/mainly because of their speed (manaphy and garchomp are exceptions, but their bans were mainly because of their cheap weather ability). Seriously, Thunderus, Excadrill, Swift Swim, Blaziken, Shaymin-S, Darkrai, you get the point. Even Deoxys S is getting more votes.
Of course, the pokemon has to have a little power to be banned (unlike ninjask and co.) but you get the point.
Of course, the pokemon has to have a little power to be banned (unlike ninjask and co.) but you get the point.
Garchomp is slow? Since when? Base 102 Speed is still very fast.
Moving first has always been really important in this game, especially when you have the offenses to do something with it. That's why no one is talking about Jolteon, Accelgor, Electrode, or Ninjask. They are, quite frankly, garbage even considering the fact that they are among the fastest Pokemon in the game. The only reason Ninjask is being used now is because of Baton Pass chains with Espeon. I'm sure you don't mean "anything with high speed", but I wish you could word that a little more intelligently, since it otherwise seems that you're trying to fish for another reason to discriminate against the decisions of our voters.
EDIT:
I didn't catch this part, but seriously, that's not even a good observation. Yes, Speed is important, always has been, but if you look at the plethora of other Pokemon who reach the same speed tiers or higher that can't even do what Pokemon like Excadrill and Thundurus do, then it relays back to the simple fact that these Pokemon are overpowered, not just fast. 'Fast' isn't why we ban things around here.
Revenge killing is a pretty shit reason to put Deoxys-S up for a ban too, especially considering how easy it is to wall. I didn't even care about Excadrill getting revenge kills, to be honest, he had way more going for him than picking off sweepers (like Rapid Spin and picking off anything that isn't a sweeper, which Deoxys-S often cannot do). I hope the people who support its banishment can come up with better reasoning than that.
If the community hates a Pokémon, it is ban-worthy. At least, in the suspect test process, but it seems like we won't be banning anything via that process anymore.
This should be true when it comes to offensive prowess, but you neglected to mention defensive Pokemon. Maybe you weren't making that point, though. Quite a few Pokemon are Uber because of their walling capabilities.
Scald Hax, though. Like 9 out of ten teams rely on scald hax, which is ironicaly and sadly a bit more reliable than will o wisp.
A lot of perspectives to note on the banning thing -.-. A lot of the perspectives would say it "isn't that bad". I'm thinking the whole ban-happy idea comes from many feeling that some bans were unnecessary combined with the different things people WANT bans for and the fact that it's early in the gen still.
Side note: Is Defog remotely viable as an alternative to spinning? I noticed its current distribution sucks (because of the inability to transfer pokes that have it from previous gens maybe?). Sure, it's non-damaging, but it also isn't blocked by ghost, and instead offers a make-shift accuracy boost. It even rids the opponent of screens, which is nice... Just a thought really, I was always under the impression that only Rapid Spin did that... Most of the Poke's that get it aren't very good... especially not as utility mons, but still.
Only if you want to spin for your opponent; Defog removes hazards on their side of the field, that is, the ones that you put down.
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