SubTaunt Terrakion is a no....
SubSD Terrakion=beast of a Pokemon, use it.
SubSD Terrakion=beast of a Pokemon, use it.
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- Thread starter sax king
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SubSD Terrakion is amazing, but if you use it, I would always run Jolly. With good natural speed, Terrakion doesn't need RP. Sub makes CB Scizors stare at awe when they try to come in to check Terrakion, only to be subbed up on.
Yes, I'm serious...sort of.
Poliwhirl (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
The great benefit of Poliwhirl is that people don't respect it. They just go "lol Poliwhirl" and set up Rocks or do whatever. I can almost always get a Belly Drum and have them not attack me. I use Poliwhirl over Poliwrath for 2 reasons: It's looks a lot cuter and more importantly, it's faster. Reaches 306 speed or something like that which is decent enough. It'll get a kill or two and earn you style points. Has decent defense, too and a water immunity which can earn you a free setup.
If you play on the PO server you can actually give it Swift Swim, but that might be the DW ability. Not too sure.
By the way, whoever posted the Doom Desire Jirachi set, I love it.
Poliwhirl (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
The great benefit of Poliwhirl is that people don't respect it. They just go "lol Poliwhirl" and set up Rocks or do whatever. I can almost always get a Belly Drum and have them not attack me. I use Poliwhirl over Poliwrath for 2 reasons: It's looks a lot cuter and more importantly, it's faster. Reaches 306 speed or something like that which is decent enough. It'll get a kill or two and earn you style points. Has decent defense, too and a water immunity which can earn you a free setup.
If you play on the PO server you can actually give it Swift Swim, but that might be the DW ability. Not too sure.
By the way, whoever posted the Doom Desire Jirachi set, I love it.
Accelgor | Leftovers
Hydration
Timid
252 HP | 80 Def | 176 Spd
- Spikes
- Rest
- Final Gambit
- Bug Buzz / Yawn / Toxic
---
Most Rain teams are forced to use Ferrothorn as their Spiker, but when I wanted to make a more offensive rain team I figured fast Spikes was the way to go. This Accelgor does just that. Lays down Spikes, Rests in the opponent's face and then kills whatever is in with a usually full health Final Gambit. If one feels like Stalling, use Toxic in the last slot. Yawn helps with set up and getting a free turn to Rest to get the kill with Final Gambit (or put the opponent to sleep after they kill you to set up a sweeper next turn). Bug Buzz is mostly so you aren't Taunt fodder. The Timid nature and Speed EVs let you outspeed Modest scarf Rotom-W and gives one extra point towards Speed hitting a magic number. The rest was poured into Defense to take a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor and HP to make Final Gambit as powerful as possible.
Yeah, you're right. Yawn is viable as a phazing move, though, and it's legal. I'll edit that in.
Hydreigon@Leftovers
4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest
Levitate:
~substitute
~Charge Beam
~Dragon Pulse
~Fire Blast/Dark Pulse
Hydreigon Subcharge, substitute on the switch, and start charge beaming to raise your SpA.
4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest
Levitate:
~substitute
~Charge Beam
~Dragon Pulse
~Fire Blast/Dark Pulse
Hydreigon Subcharge, substitute on the switch, and start charge beaming to raise your SpA.
@Metagross: that looks like a great set. I'm definatly going to have to try it.
@JohnWesley: I don't see that being very effective. Sure, you could get the sub, but the opponent will send in a counter, break your sub when you charge beam, and proceed to killsince you aren't that fast. Also, don't forget that charge beam only has a 50% chance to raise you SAtk. One change I would make though is using LO over Lefties. LO would give you a bit more power and make you less reliant on charge beam.
@JohnWesley: I don't see that being very effective. Sure, you could get the sub, but the opponent will send in a counter, break your sub when you charge beam, and proceed to killsince you aren't that fast. Also, don't forget that charge beam only has a 50% chance to raise you SAtk. One change I would make though is using LO over Lefties. LO would give you a bit more power and make you less reliant on charge beam.
Yes, I'm serious...sort of.
Poliwhirl (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
The great benefit of Poliwhirl is that people don't respect it. They just go "lol Poliwhirl" and set up Rocks or do whatever. I can almost always get a Belly Drum and have them not attack me. I use Poliwhirl over Poliwrath for 2 reasons: It's looks a lot cuter and more importantly, it's faster. Reaches 306 speed or something like that which is decent enough. It'll get a kill or two and earn you style points. Has decent defense, too and a water immunity which can earn you a free setup.
I am using this set- No I'm building a team for this little guy. (about how often would you say he gets his job done. Also do you play on PO or Smogon?)
Usually PO. The home of Blaziken, Excadrill and Swift Swim + Drizzle. I use it in OU and it works alright. Of course it's not reliable or anything and you'll get those awkward moments where you go for Belly Drum against a Ferrothorn and he's like "Fuck that" and kills you with Power Whip. But then there's those moment where the Ferro uses Spikes and then you kill him with Brick Break and kill the next Poke aswell because noone knows this things speed. I never play in lower tiers, but I assume it would be even better in UU and RU.
Recently I've been using SD Tentacruel with Rain support with some success. It struggles with coverage, but it catches people off guard with it's surprising power.
Tentacruel @ Life Orb
Rain Dish
Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Poison Jab
-Frustration/Filler
With one SD, Tentacruel scores a clean OHKO on max defense Gliscor, 2HKO on max defense Skarmory, and OHKO on 0/252 Calm Blissey (2KO on Eviolite Chansey).
Poison Jab has a chance to OHKO non-defensive Rotom-W, non-defensive Ttar is OHKOed without rain, as is 252/0 Ttar.
It can't touch Ferrothorn or Empoleon (Ferrothorn being the more common issue) and even though it has base 100 Speed, that is still a bit slow when facing faster sweepers, so in order for Tentacruel to sweep, you'll have to pack Magnezone to get rid of Ferrothorn and a scarfer to get rid of fast sweepers.
Tentacruel @ Life Orb
Rain Dish
Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Poison Jab
-Frustration/Filler
With one SD, Tentacruel scores a clean OHKO on max defense Gliscor, 2HKO on max defense Skarmory, and OHKO on 0/252 Calm Blissey (2KO on Eviolite Chansey).
Poison Jab has a chance to OHKO non-defensive Rotom-W, non-defensive Ttar is OHKOed without rain, as is 252/0 Ttar.
It can't touch Ferrothorn or Empoleon (Ferrothorn being the more common issue) and even though it has base 100 Speed, that is still a bit slow when facing faster sweepers, so in order for Tentacruel to sweep, you'll have to pack Magnezone to get rid of Ferrothorn and a scarfer to get rid of fast sweepers.
You can net some free points from speed. At the moment you are at 407, where you don't have anything important to outspeed. If Scarf-Heracross is an issue, I would go with 168 EV for 404 speed, otherwise 136 for 396 is fine for guys like Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Crobat, quasi the fastest non-scarfer.
I thought his reasoning for 407 speed was to outspeed Modest Scarf Rotom-W, which is one of the biggest threats in the metagame?
Wait a moment, I though Scarf-Rotom is usually timid. In that case, forget about the last post.
Dusclops (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Curse
- Pain Split
- Night Shade
I didn't come up with this, I just saw it somewhere a long time ago but I forgot whose set this is. Works great with entry hazards, especially toxic spikes and spikes. Say you set up a Sub on the switch and then you get up a Curse. The next turn, the opponent's Pokemon will take 13% damage from poison and 25% from Curse. So then he either has to switch and take even more entry hazard damage and get Pain Splitted or stay in to break the sub and die after 2 turns.
EVs are just standard, depending on your team you can just put them in whatever you need. With a Bold nature the defenses are almost equal.
Here's a game with it using some random bullshit:
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Musicness-vs-FOAD--2011-11-01
(I'm not playing against a genius but this is just to show you the set.)
Is Eviolite that important if Poliwhirl's losing 50% of his health anyway? You could run Muscle Belt or Leftovers over it otherwise.
Speaking of that Poliwhirl... what about Belly Drum Poliwrath?
The key of the following move set is the set up.
Here's what to do: Use the move Rain Dance (yes, the move) with a Pokemon that also learns the move Memento. Such Pokemon include Latios, Gastrodon, Uxie, and several others. Use the one that fits best with the rest of your team. Give the Pokemon a Damp Rock to hold.
Then, use Rain Dance, giving your team 8 turns of Rain. Then use Memento the next turn. Memento accomplishes 2 things - it gives Poliwrath an easy opportunity to set up and it gives you the maximum number of turns to abuse the rain.
After using the Rain Dance (with Damp Rock) + Memento combo, send in Poliwrath.
[pimg]62[/pimg]
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Swift Swim
Adamant / Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
- Return / Rock Slide / Poison Jab
Poliwrath enters with full health while facing an opponent that has just had its Attack and Sp. Attack stats crippled. The opponent will likely be forced to switch out altogether. As the opponent switches, go for the Belly Drum.
Poliwrath now has an Attack stat of 1180 and a Speed stat of 468 (or 1076 Attack with 524 Speed if you elect to go with a Jolly nature). Furthermore, rain boosts the power of its STAB Waterfall.
The most important thing about this set is that Poliwrath is going to outspeed and 1HKO the overwhelming majority of Pokemon.
Belly Drum, Waterfall and Brick Break are essential attacks to have on the set. Anything that takes neutral damage to water attacks is going to be absolutely walloped by Waterfall, which is boosted by STAB, the rain, and +6 attack. A STAB Brick Break does better damage to things that resist Water.
As for the choice of the last attack, Return is probably the best option as it is the most powerful choice and provides the best neutral coverage with the set. However, Rock Slide can be used to hit Flying/Dragon & Flying/Water types harder, while Poison Jab can be used to hit grass types harder.
The common priority moves of Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Bullet Punch and Sucker Punch won't be able to do much to Poliwrath since it resists all of those attacks and it has pretty good bulk. Extremespeed and Mach Punch are a bit more worrisome, but as long as Poliwrath is at over half health it should have nothing to fear from these attacks because of its solid bulk.
Another great thing about this set is that because Poliwrath is packing Brick Break, the opponent will not be saved by any Reflect they may have put up before Poliwrath set up.
The only things that are going to really get in this Poliwrath's way are...
-Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Ninetales/Abomasnow changing the weather (although all 4 are going to be absolutely annihilated by Poliwrath's Waterfall or Brick Break, so this isn't much of a problem).
-Focus Sash/Sturdy users (although Focus Sash Pokemon are more commonly leads so Poliwrath likely won't have to deal with that... and if it's still a concern, obviously Stealth Rock support is appreciated)
-Very bulky waters. ( Although often these Pokemon won't be able to do much to Poliwrath other than phaze it out after taking a massive chunk of damage.)
-Extremely fast Choice Scarf users. (But it's rare for people to give already extremely fast Pokemon a Choice Scarf).
-Prankster abusers.
The only outright counter to Poliwrath is Slowbro because it's bulky as hell and can 1HKO Poliwrath with Psychic.
Another beautiful thing is that because of the prevalence of rain teams, Poliwrath doesn't even need you to waste a turn to set up Rain Dance if you're opponent is using Politoed (although something like Memento might still be very useful).
All in all, I think that if played right (that is, waiting until your opponents Bulky waters have already been taken out, making sure they don't have a Skarmory that will be able to survive a hit and KO back with Brave Bird, etc.) this set can easily catch your opponent off guard and win you the game... and it can work in OU yet also be used in UU and RU. For the NU tier, replace Poliwrath with a Poliwhirl holding an Eviolite. All tiers have adequate users of Rain Dance + Memento to back you up.
The key of the following move set is the set up.
Here's what to do: Use the move Rain Dance (yes, the move) with a Pokemon that also learns the move Memento. Such Pokemon include Latios, Gastrodon, Uxie, and several others. Use the one that fits best with the rest of your team. Give the Pokemon a Damp Rock to hold.
Then, use Rain Dance, giving your team 8 turns of Rain. Then use Memento the next turn. Memento accomplishes 2 things - it gives Poliwrath an easy opportunity to set up and it gives you the maximum number of turns to abuse the rain.
After using the Rain Dance (with Damp Rock) + Memento combo, send in Poliwrath.
[pimg]62[/pimg]
Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Swift Swim
Adamant / Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
- Return / Rock Slide / Poison Jab
Poliwrath enters with full health while facing an opponent that has just had its Attack and Sp. Attack stats crippled. The opponent will likely be forced to switch out altogether. As the opponent switches, go for the Belly Drum.
Poliwrath now has an Attack stat of 1180 and a Speed stat of 468 (or 1076 Attack with 524 Speed if you elect to go with a Jolly nature). Furthermore, rain boosts the power of its STAB Waterfall.
The most important thing about this set is that Poliwrath is going to outspeed and 1HKO the overwhelming majority of Pokemon.
Belly Drum, Waterfall and Brick Break are essential attacks to have on the set. Anything that takes neutral damage to water attacks is going to be absolutely walloped by Waterfall, which is boosted by STAB, the rain, and +6 attack. A STAB Brick Break does better damage to things that resist Water.
As for the choice of the last attack, Return is probably the best option as it is the most powerful choice and provides the best neutral coverage with the set. However, Rock Slide can be used to hit Flying/Dragon & Flying/Water types harder, while Poison Jab can be used to hit grass types harder.
The common priority moves of Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Bullet Punch and Sucker Punch won't be able to do much to Poliwrath since it resists all of those attacks and it has pretty good bulk. Extremespeed and Mach Punch are a bit more worrisome, but as long as Poliwrath is at over half health it should have nothing to fear from these attacks because of its solid bulk.
Another great thing about this set is that because Poliwrath is packing Brick Break, the opponent will not be saved by any Reflect they may have put up before Poliwrath set up.
The only things that are going to really get in this Poliwrath's way are...
-Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Ninetales/Abomasnow changing the weather (although all 4 are going to be absolutely annihilated by Poliwrath's Waterfall or Brick Break, so this isn't much of a problem).
-Focus Sash/Sturdy users (although Focus Sash Pokemon are more commonly leads so Poliwrath likely won't have to deal with that... and if it's still a concern, obviously Stealth Rock support is appreciated)
-Very bulky waters. ( Although often these Pokemon won't be able to do much to Poliwrath other than phaze it out after taking a massive chunk of damage.)
-Extremely fast Choice Scarf users. (But it's rare for people to give already extremely fast Pokemon a Choice Scarf).
-Prankster abusers.
The only outright counter to Poliwrath is Slowbro because it's bulky as hell and can 1HKO Poliwrath with Psychic.
Another beautiful thing is that because of the prevalence of rain teams, Poliwrath doesn't even need you to waste a turn to set up Rain Dance if you're opponent is using Politoed (although something like Memento might still be very useful).
All in all, I think that if played right (that is, waiting until your opponents Bulky waters have already been taken out, making sure they don't have a Skarmory that will be able to survive a hit and KO back with Brave Bird, etc.) this set can easily catch your opponent off guard and win you the game... and it can work in OU yet also be used in UU and RU. For the NU tier, replace Poliwrath with a Poliwhirl holding an Eviolite. All tiers have adequate users of Rain Dance + Memento to back you up.
Poliwrath cannot learn Ice Punch when combined with Swift Swim, its DW ability. Ice Punch is a Gen IV Tutor, so it's incompatible with DW abilities. That leads me to believe you didn't really playtest this set (although, to be frank, this is a pretty common set anyway, sans the impossible Ice Punch). Before you post, make sure that you've tested a set yourself. And make sure that it's possible!
^ Thanks for that.
Since Ice Punch is unfortunately illegal, it can be replaced with Rock Slide.
Rock Slide is probably preferable since it is Poliwrath's best option against Dragon/Flying types as well as Gyarados. Another alternative that could be used is Poison Jab if Celebi is a concern.... but other than that Rock Slide seems like the superior option.
Edit: Actually on second thought, Return is probably the best option here since it will still allow Poliwrath to take out most things with a single hit that resist the combination of Water and Fighting type moves. (Like Poison/Grass types and Dragon/Flying types)
Since Ice Punch is unfortunately illegal, it can be replaced with Rock Slide.
Rock Slide is probably preferable since it is Poliwrath's best option against Dragon/Flying types as well as Gyarados. Another alternative that could be used is Poison Jab if Celebi is a concern.... but other than that Rock Slide seems like the superior option.
Edit: Actually on second thought, Return is probably the best option here since it will still allow Poliwrath to take out most things with a single hit that resist the combination of Water and Fighting type moves. (Like Poison/Grass types and Dragon/Flying types)
I've actually tried that set as a joke awhile ago, since belly drum + SwSw looked fun and possibly effective. It rarely sweeps...Basically you have problems with health and coverage. If you set up on something, you will rarely have the health to sweep without being hit by priority. (Granted, I did not use memento). Also weathers can nullify this really easily. Jellicent walls you, and Skarmory can even tank a waterfall from full health against Jolly. So while it will sweep the other team if it sets up, the team has no priority or one of the things that walls it, ect, it will usually be stopped.
But using Memento is absolutely crucial to using this set, so it's not fair to say that it would 'rarely work' if you haven't tried it.
The key is to use Memento against a Pokemon that depends on its attacking stats - thereby forcing your opponent to switch after using Memento, which gives Poliwrath a free turn to set up (plus 1 free turn of Leftovers recovery).
As I said, Poliwrath resists a good number of priority attacks. Extremespeed and Mach Punch are basically the only commonly used priority attacks that do neutral damage to Poliwrath (remember, Poliwrath resists Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, and Sucker Punch), and your opponent will not be able to KO Poliwrath with unboosted priority attacks. The only way they can do so is if they have multiple Pokemon with strong priority attacks, which means they are going to have to sacrifice a few Pokemon to bring Poliwrath down in that way anyway.
As I said, weather is not much of a problem. Any weather abuser that tries to switch into Poliwrath's attacks will be able to change the weather, but they will be sacrificing their weather abuser since any weather abuser would quickly be OHKOed by Poliwrath. In fact, even if the weather is changed, Poliwrath still outspeeds Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow, so those guys can't even revenge kill Poliwrath. Ninetales is the only exception (although Ninetales obviously can't switch into an attack).
Jellicent doesn't really "wall" Poliwrath, as it is still easily 2HKOed by Waterfall. Same for Skarmory. (In other words, neither can switch in).
But Skarmory and bulky waters are just about the only Pokemon that are not 1HKOed... so, like I said, the set is best used after you have eliminated any such Pokemon your opponent have (obviously easier said than done, but everything has counters... and if you can get rid of your opponent's Poliwrath counter, then it's clean sweeping).
Edit: I just did the damage calculations and even a Max Defense / Max HP Skarmory is easily 1HKOed by Waterfall... so as long as it's Sturdy is broken by having Stealth Rock support, even Skarmory presents no problem. As for Jellicent, unless it is Max HP and Max Def (not a given), it can't survive a Waterfall either.
@WaterlooZoo: But a lot of Jellicent's have Water Absorb, and they're also immune to your secondary STAB. So... I'm pretty sure that Jellicent can wall Poliwrath.
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