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Smogon University PO Statistics — May 2012
- Thread starter Antar
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GAH! Why don't people use Chansey more? Whenever I'm battling the LAST thing I usually want to see on the opponents team is Chansey. It's ridiculously difficult to get rid of. I guess the main reason is that Blissey is seen as better for a Protect-wish set due to leftovers, and that's the most common set the blobs are called upon to run.
Also of course, the myth that Chansey is worse in Hail/sandstorm than Blissey still prevails, even though it's complete and utter bupkiss. And even if it were true, the metagame analysis shows that less than a quarter of teams run Sandstorm or Hail anyway, meaning that 75% of the time Chansey is a better wall than Blissey, full stop. So... yeah, still confuses me.
Looks like Virizon, Scrafty and Toxicroak will be staying in OU though. Good for Virizon and Toxicroak certainly, though I'm not entirely convinced Scrafty belongs in OU.
EDIT: and oh, the reason Abomasnow is probably moving up to OU likely has little to do with metagame shifts and more to do with people realizing that Abomasnow and hail are both quite underrated. Played well, they can easily take on the OU environment, and Abomasnow himself is as anti-meta as hell. All the weather starters bar Ninetails are wrecked by him, and he's got good utility against the ever prominent dragons and bulky waters as well. He's not something you want to underestimate unless you want to lose.
Also of course, the myth that Chansey is worse in Hail/sandstorm than Blissey still prevails, even though it's complete and utter bupkiss. And even if it were true, the metagame analysis shows that less than a quarter of teams run Sandstorm or Hail anyway, meaning that 75% of the time Chansey is a better wall than Blissey, full stop. So... yeah, still confuses me.
Looks like Virizon, Scrafty and Toxicroak will be staying in OU though. Good for Virizon and Toxicroak certainly, though I'm not entirely convinced Scrafty belongs in OU.
EDIT: and oh, the reason Abomasnow is probably moving up to OU likely has little to do with metagame shifts and more to do with people realizing that Abomasnow and hail are both quite underrated. Played well, they can easily take on the OU environment, and Abomasnow himself is as anti-meta as hell. All the weather starters bar Ninetails are wrecked by him, and he's got good utility against the ever prominent dragons and bulky waters as well. He's not something you want to underestimate unless you want to lose.
That doesn't surprise me, given the common (and flawed) perception of how the two match up. Basically, there's a whole lot less Sandstorm and Hail in Ubers than there is in OU due to the existence of Groundon and Kyogre, and the hits are harder, meaning Chansey's better bulk is more appreciated. Now if people would only realize that Sandstorm and Hail don't really adveserly affect Chansey any more than Blissey, then MAYBE we wouldn't see Chansey about to fall down into UU again...
Chansey is better in ubers! no sand (or hail).
plus sand is very common which is good reason to use Blissey over Chansey.
:D
I'd like to point out that this calculation shows that Blissey survives better than Chansey ONLY when Protect is taken into account. If you don't run protect on your Blissey/chansey set, then you are better off using Chansey. The above calculation would turn out the same results if Sand damage was added btw, which pretty clearly shows that the whole "chansey is worse in sandstorm" argument is total bupkiss.
And even Ninetales has to be careful against Abomasnow on the switch. If it has Expert Belt or Choice Band, it could run straight into an EQ and get itself killed on a prediction. Abomasnow is quite literally the Anti-Weather Inducer...Weather Inducer, with Hail being the Anti-Weather Weather. Hail doesn't need to do anything special like the other Weathers, it just needs to exist to screw up other teams. 100% accurate Blizzards definitely don't hurt though.
And Chansey possibly moving down to UU? That will go over well...
yeah aboma does have a wide enough movepool to hurt all the other weather starters stab wood hammer tells t-tar and toed to shove off(and resists/is neutral everything toed can throw at you except focus blast which won't kill without specs and/or maybe SR damage.) and does decent amount of damage to hippo on top of the threat of a faster stab SE blizzard for hippo and EQ can ruin Ninetales day.
lol Antar getting that backlash for the Cryogonal comment. I've used Cryogonal on at least one team nearly the entire time I've played RU. I've never regretted putting it on a team. It's easily one of the best spinners in RU other than I guess Kabutops and Sandslash (don't slap me too hard if I'm missing one...), AND it takes most special attacks so goddamn well, it's insane.
Okay, everybody. Stop messing around and get Mienshao to UU.
Get it? with something like 3.3% usage this month, we can all get Mienshao to UU. That means:
1. If you use Mienshao, replace him with a Heracross this month. It's not like either are that good in OU anyway.
2. If you don't use Mienshao, play the OU ladder a lot in order to lower Mienshao's percentage. And use Roserade so it can go OU.
This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the Mienshao for UU Foundation.
Get it? with something like 3.3% usage this month, we can all get Mienshao to UU. That means:
1. If you use Mienshao, replace him with a Heracross this month. It's not like either are that good in OU anyway.
2. If you don't use Mienshao, play the OU ladder a lot in order to lower Mienshao's percentage. And use Roserade so it can go OU.
This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the Mienshao for UU Foundation.
Oh man please don't let Chansey drop back into UU it was so nice to have its fat ass gone.
Also I was hoping that Rampardos usage would be higher in NU because of the research week because he's actually pretty good. He's surprisingly a great SR setter and anti-lead, as he OHKOs standard Golem with LO Superpower and can force so many defensive mons out and get rocks up on the switch. At least he isn't PU I guess.
Also I was hoping that Rampardos usage would be higher in NU because of the research week because he's actually pretty good. He's surprisingly a great SR setter and anti-lead, as he OHKOs standard Golem with LO Superpower and can force so many defensive mons out and get rocks up on the switch. At least he isn't PU I guess.
Don't hate on RU. It's not like Cryogonal isn't the best spinner in RU already or that Magmortar isn't the anti-metagame Pokemon right now. Oh wait, yeah they are. Sandslash shouldn't even be mentioned as a Rapid Spinner because it's so hilariously bad. The only three RU spinners that are worth using are Kabutops, Hitmonchan, and Cryogonal. Cryogonal is the easiest to fit onto a team, and can take pretty much every special attacker in the tier except for those with STAB Fire moves. It can beat almost every spinblocker in the tier, and certainly every common one. Cofagrigus, Rotom, and Golurk all lose to it, and even CB Spiritomb loses to Toxic Cryogonal. The only spinblocker that can consistently beat Cryogonal is Dusknoir, but that's really it's only niche; it's outclassed as a spinblocker in every other way.
Magmortar has come up to counter the very popular Slowking + Tangrowth Regenerator core, as Vital Spirit and its access to Thunderbolt set it apart from Moltres and Typhlosion. Magmortar is as close as unwallable as they come, as even Munchlax and Lanturn take over 40% from Expert Belt Focus Blast and HP Grass, respectively. They are pretty much the only things in RU that can avoid the 2HKO from any of Magmortar's moves, but they both lack reliable recovery so they can be easily worn down with hazards or consistent pressure. The Expert Belt set is really the only one worth using, since Magmortar needs as much longevity as possible while also being able to switch attacks. I go a little more in-depth into Magmortar in this post, and other users can attest to how great it is in the current metagame.
I don't have much to say about Quagsire; it doesn't really have much to set it apart from Poliwrath which has better defensive typing as well as Circle Throw to make up for Quagsire's Unaware. However, I will say that it's always been one of those Pokemon that you've had to prepare for even though it's not officially RU. Honestly, it should be Absol that moves up and not this thing, since Absol has a much bigger niche in RU and is just a lot better overall.
Magmortar has come up to counter the very popular Slowking + Tangrowth Regenerator core, as Vital Spirit and its access to Thunderbolt set it apart from Moltres and Typhlosion. Magmortar is as close as unwallable as they come, as even Munchlax and Lanturn take over 40% from Expert Belt Focus Blast and HP Grass, respectively. They are pretty much the only things in RU that can avoid the 2HKO from any of Magmortar's moves, but they both lack reliable recovery so they can be easily worn down with hazards or consistent pressure. The Expert Belt set is really the only one worth using, since Magmortar needs as much longevity as possible while also being able to switch attacks. I go a little more in-depth into Magmortar in this post, and other users can attest to how great it is in the current metagame.
I don't have much to say about Quagsire; it doesn't really have much to set it apart from Poliwrath which has better defensive typing as well as Circle Throw to make up for Quagsire's Unaware. However, I will say that it's always been one of those Pokemon that you've had to prepare for even though it's not officially RU. Honestly, it should be Absol that moves up and not this thing, since Absol has a much bigger niche in RU and is just a lot better overall.
Just for that, I'm using Mienshao on all my teams this month that don't involve a Lucario.
While Blissey is inferior to Chansey a lot of the time, when you do face weather it is a real pain. For example Chansey doesn't like taking +6 giga drains from Celebi (even though it can), but in the sand it just makes it that much worse to deal with. Other special attackers in the sand such as Rotom and Latios can really wear you down, and since Chansey/Blissey is usually your main way of dealing with special hits on a stall team, if t goes down your screwed. Also leftovers helps Blissey recover and deal with hazards, why Chansey just loses 12% of her health every time.
Honestly its a preference, both are great.
Honestly its a preference, both are great.
I'm glad Abomasnow is getting more usage. Its versatility is astounding, and is a very underrated threat in the current metagame.
I agree with this. Abomasnow is a very effective anti-metagame/weather pokemon. Where in 4th gen, it was necessary to build a team around him, in 5th gen, it's almost getting to the point where you can stick him on any team that is weak against rain (or could benefit from a grass pokemon), permitting the rest of the team is not debilitated by hail.
Without SR, I wouldn't be surprised if it had the same usage stats as Tyranitar since they serve similar roles.
Meh, I wouldn't go that far. TTar also gets usage because it's already OU caliber without Weather Inducing, he's just that solid of a poke. Would not go that far when talking about Aboma, even though I like him so much.
Again, I'd like to point out that Blissey wouldn't like it "in the sand" any more than Chansey would. Both are losing 6% of their health they'd normally have at the end of the turn either way. If both are not using Protect, Chansey won't be worn down anymore than Blissey would by special attackers in the sand because the extra damage it's taking from sand is counteracted but the fact it's taking less damage from attacks.
The hazards argument is also invalid for much the same reason. Blissey might recover 6% of its health from switching into stealth rock, but if the attack it's switching into does 6% or more damage to it than the same attack would to Chansey then Chansey would actually end up with a larger or equal chunk of it's health remaining. For more powerful attacks, this usually means Chansey handles it better. Though Blissey might handle switching into weaker attacks with less damage overall, as long as you manage to get a turn to heal in (easy to do when you're taking low damage anyway) it won't really matter.
I'm not saying Chansey is strictly superior to Blissey, as Blissey does benefit GREATLY from leftovers in conjunction with Protect. However, any argument that hazards and sand make Blissey worse than Chansey are completely invalid. If you're not using Protect (or flamethrower/Ice beam I suppose), use Chansey, not Blissey.
---------------
Also, I'd like to say that I think that Meinshao deserves its place in OU. While it might not be as overwhelming as Terrakion it really does have a strong niche as a scout. If it weren't for team preview, I suspect Meinshao would be much higher in OU due to the synergy between Hi-Jump Kick, U-Turn and Regenerator. As it is, Mienshao is still very useful when used properly and deserves its spot in OU as much as Virizon does in my opinion.
Wow, so Scrafty rose in usage instead of dropping. Great. Someone's overusing him so that he doesn't drop. And Chansey about to drop to UU? I might modify my UU team if it drops.
And why are people complaining about RU about to take three Pokemon from NU when UU took more from us? And NU also has 200+ Pokemon. I know Cryogonal is the only good spinner in NU but that's the point. He's just an excellent spinner in RU.
Hopefully RU can recover and also get more love.
And why are people complaining about RU about to take three Pokemon from NU when UU took more from us? And NU also has 200+ Pokemon. I know Cryogonal is the only good spinner in NU but that's the point. He's just an excellent spinner in RU.
Hopefully RU can recover and also get more love.
you are mistaken, mienshao is extremely good in OU if used correctly and if it synergises well with the other memebers of a team, i would recommend people try it out, hjk is very powerful, fake out is great, hidden power ice means gliscor can gtfo, uturn is invaluable and regenrator is an amazing ability for a hit and run poke like mienshao.
heracross and mienshao are not comparable at all
The problem with these big announcements posts to help mons drop to UU is that they draw attention to stuff like mienshao and toxicroak and scrafty which are otherwise dropping off of the OU radar. I would not be surprised if the reason scarfty usage rose was a response to all the UU people blaring out "let scrafty drop to UU" as your drawing attention to scrafty that otherwise wouldnt have existed. If you want stuff like mienshao to drop i would advise quiet anticipation as your approach because it seems to me that big, loud statements like this are just undermining your goal.
At the moment I'm on the fence about Mienshao's OU status. It's not really a terrible Pokemon by any means, in fact, Regenerator actually makes it work well. At the same time, I've found from my use of it that its movepool isn't exactly amazing. I think it would probably do quite well in UU, though. If it did drop to UU, I'd use it down there, but I don't care whether or not it drops.
Mienshao lends itself to a fairly reckless playstyle. Even if HJK misses, a quick U-turn facilitated by 105 speed will heal off a lot of that, and it's still one of the best LO abusers in the game (outside of those that abuse it via Sheer Force--looking at you, Nidoking).
As for Abomasnow muscling its way up the tier, I'd say that on top of discouraging Politoed from getting rain back up lest it eat a wood hammer on the switch, starting hail can also be used as a form of pseudo-priority. Since sand and hail take effect before passive recovery, you can, say, switch Abomasnow into Latios, have it die to Draco Meteor, then Latios goes down between hail and LO recoil if it's under 16%. Sure, you pretty much forfeit the weather war if they still have their starter alive, but it's still an interesting way to stop a sweep. (As a side note, doing the same thing with a combination of weather and Rocky Helmet Ferro does something like 35% if it comes into a contact move, not taking recoil into effect.)
As for Abomasnow muscling its way up the tier, I'd say that on top of discouraging Politoed from getting rain back up lest it eat a wood hammer on the switch, starting hail can also be used as a form of pseudo-priority. Since sand and hail take effect before passive recovery, you can, say, switch Abomasnow into Latios, have it die to Draco Meteor, then Latios goes down between hail and LO recoil if it's under 16%. Sure, you pretty much forfeit the weather war if they still have their starter alive, but it's still an interesting way to stop a sweep. (As a side note, doing the same thing with a combination of weather and Rocky Helmet Ferro does something like 35% if it comes into a contact move, not taking recoil into effect.)
Guys, use Magmortar in all of your RU teams; I want to play NU and I won't until Mantine is usable (I'm sure someone remembers my love affair with Mantine last gen), and Magmortar gets Thunderbolt so it ruins Mantine. Magmortar for RU! (I don't use PO so I can't affect the usage stats at all by playing RU...)
Also...
Why is the same old boring Forretress still so high? I made this post in the last usage thread, and everything in it still stands this month. Unless you play really conservatively with it (not what you want from a defensive Pokemon, mind you) it dies before it can do something useful. It gets set up on by just about anything and the only lasting effect it has (hazards) can easily be reversed. It just gets shit on by so many things nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I like some of Forretress's more novel options (Hidden Power, Counter, and my weird Choice Band set come to mind) but the tried and true Forretress isn't so true anymore. I guess people like it because it's a really bulky spinner, but Donphan does that so much better (as well as posing a problem to VoltTurn with Scarf Rotom). Don't say it's a good hazard setter either - there are a ton of Stealth Rock users and a lot of Spikers (Ferro and Skarmory come to mind) while Nidoqueen sets up Toxic Spikes better because it doesn't get ripped to shreds by the more popular attackers in the tier (besides Politoed and Rotom, but they hurt Forretress too) and actually has some bite to it, with more reliable Sheer Force boosted attacks.
tl;dr Stop using Forretress.
I hope that made sense.
Also...
Code:
| 13 | Starmie | 50317 | 11.650% | 40228 | 11.306% |
| 16 | Tentacruel | 44956 | 10.409% | 37012 | 10.402% |
[B] | 18 | Forretress | 37531 | 8.690% | 32387 | 9.102% | [/B]
| 29 | Espeon | 29418 | 6.811% | 23220 | 6.526% |
| 30 | Donphan | 28094 | 6.505% | 23995 | 6.744% |
| 44 | Cloyster | 21484 | 4.974% | 16569 | 4.657% |
| 87 | Xatu | 5101 | 1.181% | 4293 | 1.207% |
| 89 | Hitmontop | 4983 | 1.154% | 4065 | 1.142% |
Espy and Xatu for Magic Bounce, Hitmontop just to add the most used non-OU spinner
Code:
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +
| Forretress |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +
| Ability |100.0 | Sturdy |
+ ------- + ---- + ------------------------------------------------------------ +
| Item | 85.7 | Leftovers |
| Item | 4.4 | Shed Shell |
| Item | 3.4 | Red Card |
| Item | 6.5 | Other |
+ ------- + ---- + ------------------------------------------------------------ +
| Move | 94.7 | Rapid Spin |
| Move | 66.2 | Spikes |
| Move | 61.1 | Volt Switch |
| Move | 53.7 | Stealth Rock |
| Move | 46.5 | Gyro Ball |
| Move | 41.0 | Toxic Spikes |
| Move | 8.8 | Earthquake |
| Move | 7.2 | Hidden Power |
| Move | 6.0 | Explosion |
| Move | 2.7 | Pain Split |
| Move | 2.4 | Toxic |
| Move | 2.0 | Counter |
| Move | 7.7 | Other |
+ ------- + ---- + ------------------------------------------------------------ +
| Nature | 50.0 | Relaxed |
| Nature | 11.6 | Sassy |
| Nature | 9.7 | Bold |
| Nature | 9.0 | Impish |
| Nature | 7.3 | Calm |
| Nature | 5.2 | Careful |
| Nature | 4.4 | Hardy |
| Nature | 2.8 | Other |
+ ------- + ---- + ------------------------------------------------------------ +
| EVs | 23.8 | 252 HP / ~184 Def / ~72 SpD |
| EVs | 23.6 | 252 HP / 252 SpD |
| EVs | 18.7 | 252 HP / 252 Def |
| EVs | 3.0 | 252 Def / 252 SpD |
| EVs | 3.0 | ~240 HP / 252 SpD |
| EVs | 2.7 | 252 HP / ~212 Def / ~44 SpD |
| EVs | 25.2 | Other |
+ ------- + ---- + -------------------- + ------------------------------------- +
| Forretress @ Leftovers | Forretress @ Leftovers |
| Sturdy | Sturdy |
| 252 HP / 252 SpD | 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD |
| Calm | Relaxed |
| - Spikes | - Spikes |
| - Rapid Spin | - Rapid Spin |
| - Stealth Rock | - Gyro Ball |
| - Volt Switch | - Volt Switch |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +tl;dr Stop using Forretress.
I hope that made sense.
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