Counter This Pokemon [OLD VERSION]

[Electrolyte]

Espeon@Light Clay
Magic Bounce/Timid
252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-HP Fighting
-Psychic

Dual Screens Espeon, nothing to see here. This is not a counter, but rather a check. What it allows you to do is prevent your opponent from blindly using Spore, and enters prediction into the equation. Breloom suddenly ceases to be a viable revenge killer, loses the power of Spore, and is put into rather an awkward position overall. If they mispredict, they give you free reign to set up on them, which can often be game-ending. The worst-case scenario for you is that you lose a Pokemon (which is what Breloom would have done to a naked team) and get a free switch-in. The worst-case scenario for your opponent is that you eliminate one of his Pokemon and get a free turn of setup. Bonus: this functions almost as well against Poison Heal Breloom.

Skore already posted a set for Espeon. It might not be the same set but it works the same way- through magic bounce. Also, Nixhex said to post a sprite.

@Bribery- i guess tornadus-t is just that boss that it DOES only need three moves to demolish half the tier. Watch hurricane/focus miss MISS- lol. Stone edge is a flat out OHKO no matter what, so be careful. For Tornadus,
Hurricane- 333-392% (guaranteed OHKO)
Focus blast- 100-118% (guaranteed OHKO)
Uturn- 33-39% (doesn't matter)
As you can see, only Hurricane and Focus blast OHKOs, and if you factor the miss chance you have a 14/30 chance to KO out of rain, 17/30 chance inside of it.

 

[2sly4u]

Thanks for the calcs- adding to this, the breloom shown doesn't have swords dance. Also, if you invest a little into speed, you can kill it first. Also, brelooms aren't common leads so glister probably could activate toxic orb early on.

But Breloom can easily SD as you switch in, at which point it doesn't matter. A hard counter needs to be able to come in and shut down a pokemon no matter what. The Celebi posted by Lee is a hard counter. A pokemon that can be OHKO'd after a boost and can't OHKO first without previous setup isn't a counter.

To provide a set of my own:

Salamence@Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Bold Nature, 252HP/148Def/108Spe
Wish
Roost/Protect
Dragon Tail
Flamethrower

While not as popular as more offensive variants, defensive Salamence is one of the more underrated sets and also a fantastic counter to Breloom. Thanks to Intimidate, Salamence can come into any move Breloom has and live, even after SR damage; a -1 Stone Edge deals a maximum of 52.8%. Lum Berry is admittedly unorthodox, but it lets you come in on Spore. It also has utility besides countering Breloom however, since WishMence hates getting poisoned or burned. The EVs let you outspeed Breloom and OHKO with Flamethrower, taking SR and one round of LO damage into account. Meanwhile, Salamence can easily Roost off any damage Breloom inflicts.

 

[Manaphy]

On a side note I support the Amoonguss nomination, sure it can't take 2 5 hit bullet seeds to well after rocks and sandstorm, but thats a bit of a stretch. I like sludge bomb better though over HP ice to just kill breloom though :P.

Thanks for the support! As rare as that situation might come up, (the chance of two 5 hits are 1.5%) here are some calcs:

252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed in Sandstorm vs 252HP/40Def Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 31% - 37% (135 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

• Amoonguss took some damage prior. (Stealth Rock)
• Breloom got STAB on Bullet Seed
• Breloom's Technician increased Bullet Seed power.
• Breloom's Life Orb increased damage.
• Bullet Seed hit 5 times.

I assume you meant Breloom was at +2 when he used Bullet Seed, but really you'd never have to take two +2 Attacks since you'd be coming in on the SD, and have Clear Smog.

EDIT below me:
I think you're doing the calc with SD up because I get the same result as you when I do 2 hits and +2 Attack.

 

[Bribery]

@Bribery- i guess tornadus-t is just that boss that it DOES only need three moves to demolish half the tier. Watch hurricane/focus miss MISS- lol. Stone edge is a flat out OHKO no matter what, so be careful. For Tornadus,
Hurricane- 333-392% (guaranteed OHKO)
Focus blast- 56-66% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Uturn- 33-39% (doesn't matter)
As you can see, only Hurricane is a OHKO, focus blast is a 2HKO. Because of this, you only have a 7/30 chance to "counter" the opposing Breloom. (I bit less than 25%) I don't think that number is very high. I could calculate the chance that you will defeat your opponent in this, but I won't bother going in that deep. I still think Tornadus-T is a shaky counter.

I don't think you factored in the Choice Specs boost because I get a clean OHKO with Focus Blast when I calculate the damage.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Breloom (Neutral): 100% - 118% (263 - 310 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

I agree that Tornadus-T a shaky check since it can't really switch in safely to anything but Spore. However, it's one of the few sets that can switch into Spore and still pose a significant threat to Breloom. That's the main advantage it has over most Breloom checks.

 

[Pocket]

252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed in Sandstorm vs 252HP/40Def Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 31% - 37% (135 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

I got 12.5~14.8% - that's 7-8HKO (w/o Lefties). I highly doubt that Amoonguss, which quad resists Bullet Seed would die in 4 hits, despite the SD and Technician boost. Am I missing something here?

EDIT: Thanks! Yea, I got 25-29% for 2 hits on that damage calc so my calc's right (I counted each Bullet Seed as 1 hit)

EDIT 2: Yea, with Swords Dance - oops realized that the OP's Breloom doesn't have SD x_x;;

 

[toshimelonhead]

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost

252 Atk Life Orb Breloom (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 26.65% - 31.44% (4-5 hits to KO)
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 24.25% - 28.14% (5-6 hits to KO)

Since the Breloom mentioned in OP is not SDLoom (which is scarier IMO), Skarmory can take the Spore and take 2-3 turns to wake up and OHKO with Brave Bird. I went max/max because Skarm needs all of the bulk it can. This set also counters +1 Life Orb Adamant Haxorus does not 2HKO Skarm with Superpower. As long as you get 2-3 turns for the Spore to wear off, Skarm should be a solid Breloom counter.

 

[Nix_Hex]

I can speak from personal experience that Tornadus-T is not a Breloom counter. Sleep Talk on a Choiced Pokemon is similar to sticking Mimic on random shit in RBY. I find Taunt to be a superior option on Tornadus-T for overall utility.

Lee has the best one in Celebi. I'd say Leftovers over Lum Berry since the Breloom user will realize that its attacks are doing squat and Celebi is, for the most part, recovering said squat. They'll switch out and Celebi will be switching out right after, healing itself from sleep. Just pray to God that it's not Pursuit Tyranitar or your Breloom counter is dead meat... you can't do much if it's Dragonite or Haxorus, unfortunately.

 

[EonX]

Ah, Techniloom, one of the most difficult threats to switch into due to the threat of Spore. For that reason, it's pretty difficult to counter Breloom with just one Pokemon since you need sleep fodder to get your counter in safely, but after that Breloom is fairly easy to counter with this Pokemon:

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

Before I go any further, it goes without saying that this Latias prefers to operate in rain due to the power boost in Surf. This allows her to go without having to use Draco Meteor on many occasions. Anyway, onto the moveset and what it does. Draco Meteor still hits really hard despite not having anything to boost it. Very useful for when you need to get rid of an opposing Dragon type on the double. Surf gets pseudo-STAB in rain and allows Latias to take on the likes of Heatran, Physically Defensive Skarmory, Forretress, and Magnezone lacking Specs HP Ice among many other threats. Psyshock is what makes this set so devestating to virtually every Fighting type in the tier. Techniloom is unable to get by Latias with an unboosted Stone Edge, and as long as you have something put to sleep by Spore, Latias can come in time and again while Recovering off the damage. However, Psyshock's use isn't just for Breloom. Two other very popular and destructive Fighting types, Terrakion and Keldeo, also get put in their place by Psyshock with a little bit of residual damage. Also, many rain teams are unable to spam their powerful Water moves if the opponent still has a Toxicroak or Virizion waiting in the wings. This Latias is perfect for taking down both (watch out for Sucker Punch on Toxicroak) It's also useful for getting rid of Tentacruel and detering it from coming in to spin your hazards away or set up its own Toxic Spikes. Now that I've gone into detail about Psyshock enough, the last move is Recover which allows Latias to keep chasing these threats around.

A Timid nature is used along with max Speed EVs in order to get the jump on CM Keldeo and non-Scarf Terrakion. After that, 148 Special Attack EVs are necessary to ensure the KOs of Keldeo and Terrakion with Psyshock after they switch into SR and 2 layers of Spikes. The rest of the EVs are thrown into HP to augment Latias's natural bulk which is her main advantage over her more aggressive brother, Latios. Obviously, this set is helpless against Ferrothorn as it resists every move on the set so a Techniloom of your own can actually be very helpful among other Fighting types such as Keldeo and Terrakion. As said in the opening, this Latias loves rain, but it's best used on a rain team that can supply it with entry hazard support. Ferrothorn is a great partner in this regard for its ability to setup SR and Spikes. Landorus-T is also a solid partner for its ability to setup SR. It's Intimidate ability is able to relieve the strain on Latias to switch into strong physical attackers such as Breloom and Terrakion. It also keeps Scizor and Tyranitar (be careful of Ice Beam) in check, two very big threats to Latias.

In short, this Latias is a great addition to any rain team needing a strong defensive pivot that can tank hits, get rid of most Fighting types, and sweep on her own if need be.

Techniloom calcs vs. this Latias:

252 +2 Attack Life Orb Techniloom Mach Punch vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 46.65% - 54.88% (2-3HKO; guaranteed 2HKO with SR))
252 +2 Attack Life Orb Techniloom Stone Edge vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 103.68% - 121.95% (OHKO)
252 Atk Choice Band Techniloom Stone Edge vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 59.76% - 70.43% (guaranteed 2HKO)

Basically, unless Techniloom is boosted to +2 and predicts the Latias switch-in with Stone Edge, then Latias is a pretty safe bet once you've given up something as sleep fodder. Otherwise, Latias wins in virtually all situations against Techniloom as long as you've kept her in good health.

 

[Electrolyte]

Ah, Techniloom, one of the most difficult threats to switch into due to the threat of Spore. For that reason, it's pretty difficult to counter Breloom with just one Pokemon since you need sleep fodder to get your counter in safely, but after that Breloom is fairly easy to counter with this Pokemon:

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

Before I go any further, it goes without saying that this Latias prefers to operate in rain due to the power boost in Surf. This allows her to go without having to use Draco Meteor on many occasions. Anyway, onto the moveset and what it does. Draco Meteor still hits really hard despite not having anything to boost it. Very useful for when you need to get rid of an opposing Dragon type on the double. Surf gets pseudo-STAB in rain and allows Latias to take on the likes of Heatran, Physically Defensive Skarmory, Forretress, and Magnezone lacking Specs HP Ice among many other threats. Psyshock is what makes this set so devestating to virtually every Fighting type in the tier. Techniloom is unable to get by Latias with an unboosted Stone Edge, and as long as you have something put to sleep by Spore, Latias can come in time and again while Recovering off the damage. However, Psyshock's use isn't just for Breloom. Two other very popular and destructive Fighting types, Terrakion and Keldeo, also get put in their place by Psyshock with a little bit of residual damage. Also, many rain teams are unable to spam their powerful Water moves if the opponent still has a Toxicroak or Virizion waiting in the wings. This Latias is perfect for taking down both (watch out for Sucker Punch on Toxicroak) It's also useful for getting rid of Tentacruel and detering it from coming in to spin your hazards away or set up its own Toxic Spikes. Now that I've gone into detail about Psyshock enough, the last move is Recover which allows Latias to keep chasing these threats around.

A Timid nature is used along with max Speed EVs in order to get the jump on CM Keldeo and non-Scarf Terrakion. After that, 148 Special Attack EVs are necessary to ensure the KOs of Keldeo and Terrakion with Psyshock after they switch into SR and 2 layers of Spikes. The rest of the EVs are thrown into HP to augment Latias's natural bulk which is her main advantage over her more aggressive brother, Latios. Obviously, this set is helpless against Ferrothorn as it resists every move on the set so a Techniloom of your own can actually be very helpful among other Fighting types such as Keldeo and Terrakion. As said in the opening, this Latias loves rain, but it's best used on a rain team that can supply it with entry hazard support. Ferrothorn is a great partner in this regard for its ability to setup SR and Spikes. Landorus-T is also a solid partner for its ability to setup SR. It's Intimidate ability is able to relieve the strain on Latias to switch into strong physical attackers such as Breloom and Terrakion. It also keeps Scizor and Tyranitar (be careful of Ice Beam) in check, two very big threats to Latias.

In short, this Latias is a great addition to any rain team needing a strong defensive pivot that can tank hits, get rid of most Fighting types, and sweep on her own if need be.

Techniloom calcs vs. this Latias:

252 +2 Attack Life Orb Techniloom Mach Punch vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 46.65% - 54.88% (2-3HKO; guaranteed 2HKO with SR))
252 +2 Attack Life Orb Techniloom Stone Edge vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 103.68% - 121.95% (OHKO)
252 Atk Choice Band Techniloom Stone Edge vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Latias: 59.76% - 70.43% (guaranteed 2HKO)

Basically, unless Techniloom is boosted to +2 and predicts the Latias switch-in with Stone Edge, then Latias is a pretty safe bet once you've given up something as sleep fodder. Otherwise, Latias wins in virtually all situations against Techniloom as long as you've kept her in good health.

huge fan of latias. Must point out that you don't have to worry about +2 because that's not in the set. Also, with SD, loom loses either valuable coverage or spore. I do agree stronly on latias being a counter, however. Just be wary of spore and pursuit user switch ins.

 

[kd24]

I can speak from personal experience that Tornadus-T is not a Breloom counter. Sleep Talk on a Choiced Pokemon is similar to sticking Mimic on random shit in RBY. I find Taunt to be a superior option on Tornadus-T for overall utility.

Lee has the best one in Celebi. I'd say Leftovers over Lum Berry since the Breloom user will realize that its attacks are doing squat and Celebi is, for the most part, recovering said squat. They'll switch out and Celebi will be switching out right after, healing itself from sleep. Just pray to God that it's not Pursuit Tyranitar or your Breloom counter is dead meat... you can't do much if it's Dragonite or Haxorus, unfortunately.

Probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Sleep Talk Tornadus is ridiculously good in today's current meta where Amoongus and Breloom are on every team. Sleep Talk on a choiced pokemon with U-turn and a STAB 120 BP attack and you have Regenerator to let you hit and run = oh god terrible?

Ignoring that the set in the OP lists Stone Edge, almost no one currently runs Stone Edge when Low Sweep outclasses and Tornadus still outspeeds Adamant after a Low Sweep. Ignoring that, the idea that you "can't switch in on Bullet Seed" is pretty dumb because chances are it won't be enough to put you in Mach Punch Range even with Stealth Rock. If it does you switch out because you have Regenerator.

Sleep Talk on a choiced Pokemon isn't some ridiculous new concept either. Heracross ran it back in DPP and some people ran it so they wouldn't be ridiculously weak to Breloom. The same applies here.

Comparing a phenomenal tech choice for today's metagame to Mimic in RBY is just plain stupid. All Tornadus-T does anyway atm is spam Specs Hurricane and U-Turn. Why not ensure a safe answer to sleep?

 

[EonX]

@Electrolyte, if Latias is above 80% when a CB Scizor comes in to Pursuit you, Latias can actually stay in and 2HKO with Surf in the rain. Obviously not safe with U-Turn, but if you have another check to Techniloom (like the Landorus-T I mentioned) then you can be aggressive and try to 2HKO Scizor with Surf. Also, I was just trying to cover all possible variants of Techniloom to show how well Latias fairs against all Techniloom variants, not just the one in the OP.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I think the biggest thing sleep talk has going for it at the moment is surprise factor. I know I heard Alexwolf rave about how good sleep talk was plenty of times, but you don't quite believe it until you spore a Tornadus and have your pokemon killed off by hurricane anyway, it takes you that one surprise moment to realize that people do run that to never fall for that again, its a similar story to expert belt landorus or metal coat Scizor. Weather or not this becomes standard I don't know, but it certainly is effective and don't underestimate it.

 

[Nix_Hex]

Probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Sleep Talk Tornadus is ridiculously good in today's current meta where Amoongus and Breloom are on every team. Sleep Talk on a choiced pokemon with U-turn and a STAB 120 BP attack and you have Regenerator to let you hit and run = oh god terrible?

Ignoring that the set in the OP lists Stone Edge, almost no one currently runs Stone Edge when Low Sweep outclasses and Tornadus still outspeeds Adamant after a Low Sweep. Ignoring that, the idea that you "can't switch in on Bullet Seed" is pretty dumb because chances are it won't be enough to put you in Mach Punch Range even with Stealth Rock. If it does you switch out because you have Regenerator.

Sleep Talk on a choiced Pokemon isn't some ridiculous new concept either. Heracross ran it back in DPP and some people ran it so they wouldn't be ridiculously weak to Breloom. The same applies here.

Comparing a phenomenal tech choice for today's metagame to Mimic in RBY is just plain stupid. All Tornadus-T does anyway atm is spam Specs Hurricane and U-Turn. Why not ensure a safe answer to sleep?

Fair enough, I drank the kool-aid and put Sleep Talk on my Specs Tornadus-T and it rules. Thanks for the suggestion and kind words!

Also thank you guys for all the fruitful discussion. The next Pokemon will be posted sometime tomorrow so be on the look out.

 

[jc104]

Ignoring that the set in the OP lists Stone Edge, almost no one currently runs Stone Edge when Low Sweep outclasses and Tornadus still outspeeds Adamant after a Low Sweep. Ignoring that, the idea that you "can't switch in on Bullet Seed" is pretty dumb because chances are it won't be enough to put you in Mach Punch Range even with Stealth Rock. If it does you switch out because you have Regenerator.

Did you actually run a calc on this? I mean, that's just not true. Breloom doesn't need stone edge to take out Tornadus at all. All it needs is Low Sweep or Bullet Seed and Mach Punch. Low Sweep + Mach Punch is a probable 2HKO after SR (roughly a 5/8 chance), and with at least 3 hits (a 2/3 chance) Bullet Seed + Mach Punch is a guaranteed 2HKO after SR (and roughly 1/3 of the time is a OHKO after SR/2HKO without). So no, chances are that Tornadus will die. And you'll probably be able to tell if tornadus is going to die from the first damage roll, so you don't need to take much of a risk.

I'm not saying by any means that Sleep Talk is an awful idea though. Tornadus only really needs two (or maybe three) moves on its specs set. Taunt is not something I would have considered.

edit: didn't I say that you'd be able to tell whether Breloom would 2HKO from the first damage roll most of the time (especially with Bullet Seed). You're really not risking Breloom much at all. Tornadus is not a remotely good switch in for breloom unless you can keep SR off the field.

 

[kd24]

Yeah calced with Jolly instead of Adamant by mistake. Even then, do you really want to risk a sweeper of Breloom's calibur to what basically is a 50/50 chance? Especially when you have no idea if the player is running some bulk specifically for Breloom. This is all assuming Stealth Rock is up as well.

I think my original point is still valid in that Tornadus is still a pretty solid switch-in for Breloom and that Sleep Talk is a phenomenal move because you're only really ever using 2 moves.

 

[-Rockstar-]

Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Calm Mind
~ Psyshock
~ Recover
~ Dragon Pulse

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Thundebolt
~ Volt Switch
~ Hidden Power[Fire]
~ Flash Cannon

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SAtk / 24 Spd
Modest Nature
~ Recover
~ Psychic
~ Giga Drain
~ Hidden Power [Fire]

I have been running this particular Latios Calm Mind set on my sandstorm and Rain teams, Surf can be used over Recover but I would opt not to because Latios is usually really important to beat a bunch of new threats so we need it to last alive for aslong as possible. I have it paired with Magnezone on my team, Magnezone and Latios form a great duo simply due to the fact that Latios can perform a sweep after Magnezone gets rid of steel types, Magnezone also lures out Breloom which will opt to either go for Mach Punch or Spore, Latios is able to switch into both and scare Breloom away with a super effective Psyshock.However despite being able to counter standard Swords Dance variants of Techniloom this combo struggles against Choice Band sets running Low Sweep, due to this problem I have been running an offensive Celebi to counter The Low Sweep Choice Band set, seeing as Celebi is not 2hko'd by Breloom at full health (Its easy to keep Celebi at 90% + Health thanks to recover) it can switch in and get a clean OHKO with Psychic.I am really enjoying running this core not only to counter Breloom but because Latios/Magnezone/Celebi also seem to do very well against opposing rain teams which are so common.

 

[Griff]

Well, on my Sand team I usually just Sleep TTar if they dont have weather or sac something, go into Rachi to take a Mach Punch and outspeed and KO with Psychic (Sub CM)

 

[Nix_Hex]

Well, that exceeded my expectations. Big thanks to everyone who participated. Defensive Celebi and Choice Specs Tornadus-T seem to be the best counters to Breloom; they have a purpose other than killing Breloom and they do the job they are intended to do impeccably. This leads us to our next Pokemon, much touted by kd24 and alexwolf (though not in this thread, we've seen him elsewhere): Tornadus-T

Tornadus-Therian @ Choice Specs

Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk

BW2 have given us a number of toys, some of which have yet to be used to their full potential, and others that immediately jumped to everyone's attention. Tornadus-T is a clear example of the latter. With Sleep Talk now a tutor move and Regenerator already being one of the coolest abilities in the game, Tornadus finally has the Speed it needs to pull off a legitimate sweep as well as counter the frustrating Technician Breloom and newly introduced Regenerator Amoonguss. With this set, Tornadus-T tears up the skies, dropping nukes with its powerful Choice Specs set. If it is "lucky" enough to switch in on a Spore from Amoonguss or Breloom, it can proceed to Sleep Talk and pick its horrendously powerful STAB Hurricane, hilariously inaccurate Focus Blast, or U-turn, which takes full advantage of Regenerator. Hey, it's better than being paralyzed, right? Our goal is to find out just exactly how we counter this monster.

 

[Skore]

Blissey@Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
Bold Nature: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

-Wish
-Seismic Toss
-Stealth Rock
-Aromatherapy/Toxic/Thunderwave

Standard Blissey with support moves to suit your playstyle, hazards and Seismic Toss for reliable damage on anything not a ghost type and status if your team needs it.

Thunderwave can shut down this bird in a hurry as you no longer have to worry about it's massive speed.

Tanks the special hits wonderfully taking max 35% from LO Focus Blast barring crits while ending the bird's fun in 3 Seismic Tosses after SR, Wishing away most of the damage in the meantime.

 

[Lee]

straight from the analysis

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Calm
248 HP / 236 SpD / 24 Spe
~ Discharge / Thunderbolt
~ Roost
~ Heat Wave / Hidden Power Flying
~ Hidden Power Grass / Roar

Hurricane = 26.63% - 31.33%

After Leftovers, it isn't even a guaranteed 3HKO after Zapdos has suffered Stealth Rock damage. Barring some extreme confusion hax, Zapdos wins comfortably.

Thunderbolt vs Tornadus-T = 90.00% - 106.67%

 

[EonX]

Since I run a rain team of my own, I absolutely need something to safely come in on Tornadus-T and threaten it out or KO it should it stay in. This comes from the same team my Latias set comes from:

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon / Water Pulse

Basic SubCM Jirachi, so we should know how it works. Come in on a resisted hit, Sub up, and boost up from there. However, it works a little differently against Tornadus-T. Against Tornadus-T, Jirachi should react depending on how much prior damage Tornadus-T has. Should Torn-T be anywhere below 63%, Jirachi should go straight for the Thunder to avoid taking unnecessary damage. Should Torn-T be closer to 75% or higher, Jirachi needs to boost up with Calm Mind before striking it down with Thunder. Either method needed can work as Jirachi is only 3HKOed at best by Hurricane (full hazards needed for even a shot at a 2HKO) while Focus Blast is hard-pressed to 2HKO without at least 1 layer of Spikes.

Aside from being a good check/counter to Specs Tornadus-T, Jirachi is also something of a hybrid sweeper. If you find a chance to setup, your opponent can be in for a world of hurt. If Jirachi gets a Substitute up on a special attacker, Calm Mind up. After 2 boosts, even Tornadus-T will be unable to break Jirachi's Subs with any move, even Specs Focus Blast. Thunder relies on rain and hits stuff like Politoed, Keldeo, and Torn-T extremely hard. Flash Cannon is used over Water Pulse so Jirachi can have a reliable move outside of rain. Upon seeing Thunder, Abomasnow and Tyranitar will likely come in, expecting to halt Jirachi's sweep only to be met by a STAB Flash Cannon.

The EVs maximize Jirachi's HP and Speed since it's a bulky sweeper. However, if avoiding a 2HKO from Specs Torn-T's Hurricane with SR and 3 layers of Spikes is a must, then 40 EVs may be shifted from Speed over to Special Defense. This still allows Jirachi to outspeed positive nature base 95 Speed Pokemon and retains its ability to setup on both Chansey and Blissey with impunity (albeit slowly) since max HP gives Jirachi 101 HP Subs. This is a great set for Jirachi on a rain team that needs a reliable check/counter to Tornadus-T as well as many Dragon types such as Latios, Dragonite, and Haxorus. However, it's advised to have a more dedicated Steel type for the Dragons. Although Jirachi can handle most in a pinch, it's lack of recovery keeps it from being able to switch into them multiple times. For this reason, Ferrothorn is a solid teammate as it can cripple faster Pokemon with Thunder Wave and provides Spikes and SR support to facilitate Jirachi's sweep. It also can use Leech Seed, allowing Jirachi to have some form of recovery. Removing Steel types is important as well, so Keldeo is a strong option here. Not only can it remove Steel types with Secret Sword and/or Hydro Pump, but it also appreciates Jirachi's ability to get rid of Tornadus-T, one of the more reliable stops to Keldeo for offensive rain teams. Speaking of Keldeo, Jirachi greatly appreciates a teammate that can switch into it as well as other strong Water type attackers like Politoed and Rotom-W. Without many CM boosts or a Sub, these water types can hit Jirachi hard with rain boosted Hydro Pumps. Latias can reliably switch into and dispose of these Pokemon with Draco Meteor and Psyshock. Latios can as well, but Latias's superior bulk makes her a bit more fit for taking these high-powered moves for Jirachi. Note that this Jirachi can operate for multiple turns in Sandstorm or Hail should the opponent's Pokemon be something you don't want to risk bringing Politoed in on, thus relieving the stress on Politoed to continually switch in to bring rain back.

 

[doughboy]

If only Blissey couldn't get confusion haxed to death :(

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hypnosis / Rest
- Stealth Rock

The standard Brongzong suffices, with Tornadus having to rely on Focus Miss to get past him. Stealth Rock makes sure Tornadus will always be in at 75% health which means it can cleanly take it out with Gyro Ball. It can go with Hypnosis to force into Sleep Talk, but Hidden Power Ice is the standard. Brongzong is the type of Pokemon whose EV's can become more tweaked to be a more specialized counter, so some EV's can be shifted into special defense to take hits better.

While Brongzong doesn't have reliable recovery unlike other counters, he isn't worn out by hazards compared to other counters. Wish or Heal Bell can be used to restore his health.

 

[jrp]

Jirachi@Leftovers
Careful
252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
~ Iron Head*
~ Body Slam/Thunder Wave*
~ Wish*
~ Protect*
Hurricane=26%-30.7%
However it's not a 3hko because of lefties and Rachi can retaliate back with twave/body slam and start paraflinching. Unless you get bs'd by Hurricane and get confused and constantly hurt yourself in confusion or something, you'll come out on top.

Timeneon told me to post this for him because he was lagging xD

 

[Bribery]

Darn, I wanted to post Jirachi >:[
I'll go with a more offensive check.

Thundurus - T @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice

Due to it's frailty, Thundurus-T is more of a check than a counter. However, it's typing means it resists Hurricane and Focus Blast so it can switch into Hurricane once, even after Stealth Rock. Then it can threaten with a STAB Thunder(bolt) or Volt Switch. In general, Scarf Thundurus-T is a great revenge killer, scout, and late-game cleaner for offensive teams. Use Thunder if you have Drizzle support. Otherwise, Thunderbolt is preferred for reliability.

Calcs:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 0HP/4SpDef Leftovers Volt Absorb Thundurus Therian (Neutral): 52% - 61% (156 - 184 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Thundurus Therian (Neutral) Volt Switch vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Tornadus Therian (Neutral): 90% - 106% (270 - 320 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 40% chance to OHKO.

Thunderbolt and Thunder obviously clean OHKOs. :P

 

[G-Von]

I bet ya'll weren't expecting this now were you?

Rotom@Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EV's: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Timid Nature

-Volt Switch
-Shadow Ball
-HP Ice
-Thunderbolt/Thunder

Unaffected by Focus Miss
Takes 16%-19% from U-turn
Takes 67%-79% from Hurricane

Here is my less-than-common counter for Tornadus-T: Rotom! Depending on if you have a rain team or not, or if you are preparing to face a rain team or not will decide whether you should run Thunderbolt or Thunder. Anything with rain, choose Thunder. Without rain, choose Thunderbolt. If using Thunderbolt, there is a 44.4% chance Rotom will OHKO Tornadus-T. However, Thunder will OHKO him every single time. Also, if you predict the U-Turn, you can Volt Switch out and have a 41.7% chance to OHKO after stealth rock damage.

Not only is he a good counter to Tornadus-T, he is also good for spin-blocking as well. Seeing how about 3 or 4 out of the 5 or 6 most popular rapid spinners (Starmie, Claydol, Blastoise, and Tentacruel) are weak to his STAB moves, they will not be staying in for much longer.