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Girl in the Fire

Trinitrotoluene

young ☆nd foolish
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

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Brace yourselves, for the following paragraph is my analysis of the metagame that has emerged after my posting of Deep Sea of Mare. Well Smogon, it's been a bit since I last posted an RMT. It's become fairly evident that rain is the most dominant weather in OU, thanks to all the new abusers that were heaped upon the already substantial pile of abusers present. Rain has become so dominant that Pokemon previously tossed onto teams just to counter rain, such as Kingdra and Seismitoad, are seeing more widespread use, because of the near ubiquity of rain teams. In that vein of thought, other weather teams are shifting themselves around to deal with the incessant presence of rain teams. Many sand teams have started to use both Tyranitar and Hippowdon to ensure that the sand is maintained, while several sun teams have decided to use trappers and / or back-up inducers with Sunny Day to ensure that the sun remains on the battlefield. Of course, a few rain teams employ trappers, but the overall dominion of rain in OU has lowered the necessity of this service for them. The release of Genesect has granted several team archetypes a new, powerful scout that aims to take Scizor's mantle of best U-turn abuser in OU. Genesect also brought another major component to VoltTurn teams, which took a major dive in use thanks to the new-found emphasis on weather.

With that analysis out of the way, let's move on to the actual team itself. Due to the overwhelming amount of rain teams and rain counters out in OU, I've decided to build myself a sun team. While building a team that revolves around one Pokemon may seem to be a disastrous, fruitless endeavor, it works out in the end if enough support is given. Before I started team building, I examined the OU tier in search of a set-up sweeper that could not be revenge killed by Ditto that didn't rely on a sub to win. Before long, I chose Volcarona. Ditto cannot revenge kill Volcarona due to the boosts that Quiver Dance gives in Special Defense. Many teams these days lack a Volcarona counter outside of Terrakion, Landorus, Stealth Rock, and / or another weather inducer. Being able to get rid of those three counters to Volcarona isn't difficult. This team ended up ended up surprising me by being more successful than every other sun team I've made and posted. Two of an offensive sun team's biggest foes are rain stall and sand teams that use both Tyranitar and Hippowdon. I can safely say that this team has never lost to a rain stall team or a team with both Tyranitar and Hippowdon in it. The only times I've lost with this team are when Lady Luck has struck me down and / or I've made an error in judgment during battle.

For this team, I decided to use a Pendulum motif because their tracks are simply amazing. To finish this introduction, the name of the team comes from the name of an alt that I used to test this team with on Pokemon Showdown! I managed to break into the top 100 on my first day of laddering, which is significant for me because I do not ladder for more than one day. I've also chosen this team to commemorate my 300th post and obtaining of a Pre-Contributor badge.
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As I mentioned earlier, Volcarona was my choice for a set-up sweeper, mainly because Imposter Ditto cannot revenge kill it. This lets Volcarona make set-up bait out of the supposedly greatest revenge killer present in the OU metagame. This is amplified seeing that many teams out there only have Stealth Rock, Terrakion, Landorus, Ditto, and / or an opposing weather inducer on their team as their attempt at containing Volcarona.

Of course, Volcarona is not a Pokemon that one can throw on their team and call it a day, unlike Terrakion and Starmie. It must be supported so it can reach its full potential. The first method of support came from Ninetales, which provides eternal sun via Drought, powering up Volcarona's moves while reducing its weakness to water and removing residual damage that other forms of weather can bring to the field.

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Of course, Volcarona and Ninetales are vulnerable to some of the most common Pokemon present in OU, such as Tyranitar and Politoed. What method ensures that these problem Pokemon stay out of Ninetales's pretty hair and worries? Trapping! Now, Heatran may not look like much of a trapper, but it has access to a special move named Magma Storm, which is just a stronger Fire Spin. Heatran was also chosen because of its excellent Fire / Steel typing, which gave it many valuable resistances that aided the team immensely.

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Of course, having one trapper is never enough when you're using a sun team. If you were to ask me the number of trappers I'd recommend for a sun team, I'd say two at least, so key threats are covered more reliably. Dugtrio was chosen for the team since it gives the team another Pokemon that can be used to trap opposing weather inducers and a means of eliminating Terrakion, a problem Pokemon for the team at the moment. Dugtrio also gave the team a solution for opposing Heatran and Volcarona.

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Of course, every team has a problem. At this stage of team building, I realized that I failed to rectify one of Volcarona's and the team's main problems: Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock shaves 50% of Volcarona's HP upon switching in, 25% of Ninetales's HP, and robs Dugtrio of its Focus Sash, all just for switching in. While I had the option of using Espeon and / or Xatu, I decided to use Forretress instead. Rapid Spin support is incredibly valuable for the team, increasing the survival rate of this team immensely. Forretress also takes some pressure from Heatran to deal with dragons and Landorus.

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A sun team naturally should have at least one Chlorophyll Pokemon. This lets sun teams abuse their one advantage against rain teams: the ability to abuse Speed-doubling abilities. Of course, Venusaur has the most overall utility among all the Chlorophyll Pokemon released despite lacking access to its egg moves, thanks to its respectable bulk and Grass / Poison typing. Venusaur grants the team a resistance to Water-type attacks and a potent revenge killer and annoyer under the sun. With that, the team was completed, and testing shows that the team was indeed a success.
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Code:
[COLOR="#002e63"]Girl in the Fire (Ninetales) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 176 HP / 224 SDef / 108 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- Flamethrower

Propane Nightmares (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power

The Terminal (Forretress) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch

Granite (Dugtrio) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Memento

Sounds of Life (Volcarona) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 60 Spd / 208 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost

Hold Your Colour (Venusaur) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 184 Spd / 128 Atk / 196 SAtk
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Spd
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake[/COLOR]
Code:
[COLOR="#002e63"]Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 176 HP / 224 SDef / 108 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- Flamethrower

Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch

Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Memento

Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 208 Def / 60 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 128 Atk / 196 SAtk / 184 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake[/COLOR]
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[BOX]Ninetales is the first member of the team, and the most important supporter of Volcarona, thanks to its incredible Dream World ability: Drought. I chose a more defensive take on Ninetales since it is more offensively inept than every other weather sweeper locked in OU. The bulk this set possesses has allowed me to win the weather war against nearly every type of team out there, and that is the main appeal of this set. While I normally would've gone with an offensive set, those offensive sets lacking Sunny Day and / or Nasty Plot are soundly beat by the near ubiquitous Scarf Politoed present in OU. I The defensive set on-site was a good option, but I don't particularly enjoy having to stall out the opposing weather inducer. The defensive set on-site is also massive Heatran bait. While this set is a variant on the specially defensive set on-site, it contains everything this team needs to win the weather war: the ability to pHaze, change the weather at will, cripple the opponent, and not be complete Taunt fodder.

The moves on this set are very important for Ninetales to accomplish its task as a sun provider for Volcarona. The first move, Roar, allows Ninetales to pHaze out Pokemon, such as Latias, Volcarona, and Reuniclus, that like to use Ninetales as set-up fodder. Will-O-Wisp is a great move that allows Ninetales to incapacitate physical attackers, such as Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite, and the aforementioned Tyranitar, that particularly enjoy switching into Ninetales, expecting no opposition from it. Sunny Day helps Ninetales preserve its bulk and force switches if an opposing weather inducer decides to switch in to remove the sunlight. Flamethrower is there so Ninetales isn't complete Taunt bait. Flamethrower also allows Ninetales to deal a crippling blow to those weak to it. Even without investment, Ninetales's Flamethrower can OHKO Breloom, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, and 2HKO some other targets. The EVs give Ninetales enough speed to outpace max speed Cloyster, Adamant Mamoswine, and Adamant Dragonite, with the remaining EVs thrown in to maximize special bulk. The IVs minimize Foul Play and confusion damage (once again, situational, but it's something that I always do with Pokemon that attack from the special end). Recently, I've been testing HP Rock over Sunny Day. It's worked well, but I'm divided between that and Sunny Day. I'm also divided between Shed Shell and Leftovers as Ninetales's held item.

If an opposing weather team is being faced, Ninetales is typically kept away for the first few turns of battle, only coming out when it's needed to place the sun on the field. Unintentionally, Ninetales acts as a lure for physical attackers. Its frailty draws many of them in, looking for a free switch to wreak havoc on the team, only for them to take a Will-O-Wisp to the face. Dragonite is a particularly special case, since most carry Lum Berry. Usually, what I'll try to do is burn Dragonite on the switch, exhausting their Lum Berry. Since Dragonite cannot OHKO Ninetales without a boost, I'm free to use Will-O-Wisp one more time, potentially crippling it, while saving the team a bunch of headaches. Doing this allows me to determine the set Dragonite is using, and plan accordingly. The same strategy is used against Cloyster. Against special set-up attackers, Ninetales can pHaze them out with Roar, negating their boosts and forcing them to take more damage as they switch in. While it won't cripple them, special sweepers don't exactly appreciate eating a Will-O-Wisp. Overall, Ninetales is one of the most important members of the team, and is one that I will never change.

Ninetales's ability, alongside its feminine form, earned it the name Girl in the Fire. While Girl in the Fire may have no lyrics, the smooth guitar really is the most memorable part of the song. Ninetales mirrors the lack of lyrics with its lack of offensive power, but mirrors the guitar with the immense support it provides.[/BOX]

[BOX]Heatran is the first of two trappers present in the team, and easily the most offensively inclined among the two, granting it the job of eradicating the bulkier weather inducers. This variant of Heatran was chosen over the standard three attacks due to the many services it provides. The specially defensive variant of Heatran is nice, but it is too slow to be used effectively in an offensive team such as this one. Choice variants are pretty darn cool, but they didn't exactly fit the motif this team has, since they could potentially be set-up fodder for Dragons. I particularly liked the offensive Substitute set, but it lacked the ability to deal with opposing Air Balloon Heatran, which I didn't like. I would've used the TormenTran set, but it simply could not deal with opposing weather inducers the way the set I'm using does. The weather trapper set turned out to be the best for the team, due to its ability to eradicate opposing Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed if played correctly.

All of the moves Heatran carries are equally important towards accomplishing its mission as a weather inducer trapper. Sunny Day gives Heatran the ability to switch the weather around on its own, without having to rely on Ninetales to keep the sun up. Magma Storm is an excellent move on Heatran, and is the main source of damage on this set. Not only does it trap the opponent, but it also negates Leftovers recovery, beneficial when facing down a defensive Politoed or Tyranitar. SolarBeam is a powerful move, and is another one of the reasons why Heatran can beat many of the commonplace weather inducers in OU. Earth Power gives Heatran the ability to deal with opposing Heatran, a large headache to Volcarona and most of the team. The EVs maximize Heatran's offensive potential, and the IVs minimize confusion and Foul Play damage. Air Balloon was chosen over other options such as Leftovers so I could beat opposing Heatran more easily.

Heatran's main role is seen when facing down teams with a weather inducer not named Ninetales. The usual process of trapping begins when Heatran is brought in on a Pokemon that it knows it can force out with the threat of powerful Fire-type moves. From there, the obvious weather inducer will come in, expecting a free turn to set up and wreak havoc, only to take a Magma Storm to the face. Once Heatran has the opposing weather inducer in its grasp, Sunny Day is used. This weakens Tyranitar's respectable Special Defense, and reduces the power of Politoed's STAB moves. Sunny Day also lets Heatran throw a SolarBeam at the now-trapped weather inducer, 2HKOing defensive variants of Politoed and Tyranitar, and OHKOing the offensive variants. This also lets me determine the set that the opponent's weather inducer is using, granting me an even larger advantage over the opponent. When facing a weatherless team, Heatran isn't exactly dead weight, due to its trapping functions and incredible power under the sun. When facing a weatherless team, Heatran becomes a powerful wall-breaker and secondary trapper, relegating the role of primary trapper to Dugtrio. In the end though, all this does is pave the way for Volcarona to sweep the opposing team. While it may not be the star of the show, Heatran is another invaluable member that is not likely to be replaced.

Heatran was given the name Propane Nightmares because its mere presence in the battlefield is enough to give opposing teams of all types nightmares. The song itself also has fire-based motifs scattered throughout itself, and Heatran brings plenty of fire to the battlefield. Random thought processes, eh?[/BOX]

[BOX]Forretress is the most support-oriented member of the team, and the least effective member in the offensive sense. However, the support it brings the team is invaluable. It removes Stealth Rock from my side of the field, and inserts Stealth Rock into the opponent's side. While there is a specially defensive set listed on-site, the physically defensive set is better in today's metagame because of the sudden increase in power of special sweepers. That increase in power has ruined the viability of the specially defensive set, eliminating that option from my books. If I wanted to use a specially defensive steel, I'd have chosen Heatran or Jirachi. Besides, Ninetales can take a special hit if the team needs her to.

When selecting Forretress, I had to compare it to other available Rapid Spinners. The first two spinners I compared were Starmie and Forretress. Starmie had impressive offenses and the ability to frighten rain teams, but Forretress had a more beneficial typing that helped against Dragons, who are a scourge to almost every sun team out there. I then decided to compare Donphan to Forretress (come on Jirachi, make a comment about this, I dare you!). While Donphan arguably had an easier time against Terrakion and Landorus, it faltered against powerful Dragons that could work their way past Donphan's admittedly impressive physical bulk. Claydol suffered from this as well. Cloyster was a cool idea, but it had a nasty Stealth Rock weakness that I didn't appreciate. I'd use Excadrill in this slot, but it's banned from OU.

Stealth Rock is the obligatory hazard that Forretress sets, and is one of the reasons I selected it over other spinners such as Starmie. Having Stealth Rock on Forretress gives Dugtrio and Heatran an extra move slot, allowing them to specialize themselves further as trappers. Rapid Spin increases the survival rate of the team immensely by clearing the field of Stealth Rock and other hazards that would otherwise tear through the team. Volt Switch gives Forretress the option of holding Leftovers without fear of Magnezone trapping and killing it too soon. Gyro Ball gives Forretress the ability to retaliate against Pokemon such as Landorus, Terrakion, Stoutland, and Tyranitar. The EVs give Forretress a rather large amount of physical bulk, with the remainder tossed into Special Defense, to pad its small Special Defense. The IVs maximize the power of Forretress's Gyro Ball, and lets it get a Rapid Spin off after Impish Ferrothorn.

If I'm facing a sand team, I'll usually lead with Forretress and move based on what they have out. If they lead with Hippowdon, I'll lay Stealth Rock alongside it, and use Volt Switch the next turn to scout what they use as their primary counter to Forretress. If they lead with a Tyranitar, I'll usually switch off to Dugtrio the first time around to trap and kill off Tyranitar so it doesn't give the rest of the team headaches. Against Dragon spam teams, I'll leave Forretress alive so it can absorb the Outrages from such teams. Against stall, I'll use Forretress as a pivot so I can get the more important members in safely. Of course, I'll keep Forretress alive so it can spin away the hazards that stall teams depend upon.

The Terminal was an appropriate name for Forretress because Forretress is the terminal by which hazards come and go from this team. Much like Girl in the Fire, The Terminal has no lyrics. Forretress's lack of offensive potential mirrors the lack of lyrics in The Terminal, but it emulates the faster parts by granting momentum with Volt Switch.[/BOX]

[BOX]Dugtrio is an interesting case of ups and downs. For two generations, it was just a fast, frail Ground-type languishing in UU. Then, GAME FREAK decided to adorn Dugtrio with the nearly exclusive Arena Trap upon the release of FireRed and LeafGreen, raising its potential as a revenge killer through the roof. Then, Diamond and Pearl decided to upgrade everything the metagame, dropping Dugtrio down to UU, simply because it couldn't hit hard enough. Black and White brought Drizzle and Drought to OU, bringing Dugtrio's viability back to speed, due to its ability to trap and kill nearly every relevant weather inducer present in OU. Of course, Dugtrio still has the issue of not hitting hard enough. The set chosen for this team, while maintaining the issue of a lack of power, possesses enough power to break through its designated targets: offensive variants of Politoed, Ninetales, and Tyranitar. Granted, they're only 2HKOed at best, but Dugtrio's Arena Trap and incredible speed turn that into a non-issue, usually being able to get off two attacks before going down.

The moves are fairly self-explanatory. Earthquake is the obligatory STAB move, dealing a substantial amount of damage to those that are weak to it. It's also my main solution for dealing with opposing weather inducers when Dugtrio is at full health. Stone Edge allows Dugtrio to get a small hit in against Latios, while it's able to 2HKO Staraptor (sorry ep!) and other Pokemon weak to Rock-type attacks. Reversal is Dugtrio's strongest move once it's knocked down to Focus Sash range, and often the one that is used to deal a finishing blow to the opponent's weather inducer. Memento allows Dugtrio to punish set-up sweepers that don't particularly care about Stone Edge or Earthquake, such as Virizion. Memento also allows Dugtrio to punish the Rapid Spinners that want to get a free spin off, and is one of the ways in which Volcarona can force a set-up opportunity. The EVs were placed in relevant stats, and the IVs guarantee that two Seismic Tosses from the likes of Chansey and Blissey will maximize the power of Reversal while making Dugtrio as frail as possible.

As mentioned in Forretress's section, Dugtrio is switched into Tyranitar near the beginning of the battle, so Dugtrio can perform its duties as a weather trapper. Since a stunning minority of Tyranitar carry Shed Shell, this trapping process often goes nearly uninterrupted, allowing me to perpetuate the sun's influence on the field. Trapping Politoed is not as easy, since Dugtrio's paltry base 80 attack can only carry it so far. Usually, I'll use Earthquake the first turn to determine the set it's using. Only Timid ScarfToed can outpace Dugtrio, so obtaining that information can prove to be extremely handy. In the case that it is a Timid ScarfToed, I'll move according to the move it's locked into. If Politoed is locked into Hydro Pump, I'll stay in, hoping for a miss so I can get a heavy hit in using Reversal. Should it hit, Ninetales gets a free switch-in, allowing it to stir up trouble. If it's locked into Ice Beam, then that's free switch bait for Ninetales and Heatran. Should the opposing rain team carry a Dugtrio, I'll opt to stay in and use Reversal. If the Politoed isn't a Timid ScarfToed, I'll stay in after using Earthquake to kill it off with Reversal. Against weatherless stall teams, I'll use Dugtrio to deal with Chansey and Blissey, who could otherwise cause headaches for the rest of the team.

Dugtrio was given the name Granite because Granite is a fast, short track inspired by video game boss fights. Also, Dugtrio is a Ground-type, so Granite was the best name for it.[/BOX]

[BOX]Volcarona is the main sweeper present in this team. While it may neither be the namesake for the team, nor the most powerful initially, it's the queen of the team, and is the reason that every Pokemon was picked. The backstory behind the selection of Volcarona was explained in the introduction of this RMT. Choosing a set was the main issue. While I am a fan of the offensive sets with Life Orb, they faced the issue of being potentially revenge killed by Ditto, who could then rampage through the rest of the team with its stolen STAB attacks. The ChestoRest variants are cool, but I didn't exactly like the dependence on the Chesto Berry that the set forced upon itself. I've contemplated using a Substitute Volcarona, but the bulky set seemed most appealing due to its ability to accumulate multiple boosts, while being able to check boosted Techniloom and Scizor. From there, the rest of the team was chosen to help facilitate a Bulky Volcarona sweep.

The four moves chosen for this Volcarona assure that a sweep will happen. Quiver Dance was the boosting move of choice, boosting Volcarona's best stats, while assuring that Imposter Ditto will be unable to revenge kill it. Fiery Dance has a good chance of increasing Volcarona's power, furthering its sweep. Bug Buzz is Volcarona's other STAB move, which does plenty to the Psychics and Fire resists roaming around OU. However, due to the power behind a boosted Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz sees little use. Still, it's effective if I ever have to face a Blissey or Chansey down with Volcarona. Roost grants Volcarona a very reliable source of recovery, and helps perpetuate its sweep. The EVs give it enough speed to outpace Tornadus-T after one Quiver Dance and a very respectable amount of bulk to abuse Flame Body with.

Volcarona is brought in when a set-up opportunity arises in the late-game. From there, its first objective is to accumulate a few Quiver Dances before letting loose on the opponent's team. Fiery Dance is the main move to abuse under the sun, due to its massive power. Bug Buzz is used to eliminate pesky Psychics and Water-types around OU that are cheeky enough to switch into a Fiery Dance. Roost gives Volcarona the ability to set up on Pokemon such as Tentacruel and Jellicent, who would otherwise pick Volcarona off with weak attacks, allowing it to ravage stall teams rather nicely. Offensive teams crumble once Volcarona obtains more than one boost, and stall does the same after two. This is assuming that the opponent's Heatran is down and out. All in all, Volcarona is one of the best sweepers I've ever used, and is one that I'd recommend to everyone.

Unlike the other team members, I have no reason for naming Volcarona Sounds of Life. I just thought that the song was pretty and suited Volcarona more than anything else Pendulum has produced.[/BOX]

[BOX]Venusaur is the last supporter on the team, and is the designated revenge killer under the sun. Venusaur's presence is much like a safety blanket that covers nearly every form of offense out there, whether that offense be opposing sun teams or Dragon spam teams. I didn't need a full-on sweeper, so the Growth sets were eliminated from the options. While the Sunny Day set was nice for supporting Volcarona, it simply didn't have what I was looking for in Venusaur. The SubSeed set is too slow for my tastes. In the end, this custom set, which I encountered in a previous RMT, turned out to be what the team needed: a safety blanket against nearly every form of offense in OU.

The moves do require some explanation. Sleep Powder cripples everything except for Magic Bounce Pokemon, which are dealt with by the other team members. Sleep Powder helps Venusaur contain potential problem Pokemon such as opposing Heatran and Hydreigon, making them set-up fodder for Volcarona. Giga Drain is Venusaur's most reliable STAB, killing off Terrakion foolish enough to stay in on Venusaur and dealing a great amount of damage to those neutral to it, while extending Venusaur's time on the field. Hidden Power Ice covers every Dragon, Gliscor, and Landorus present in OU very effectively. Earthquake is a relatively unexpected move on Venusaur, scoring heavy hits on opposing Heatran, Ninetales, and Magnezone, expecting a weak Hidden Power Fire. Earthquake also relieves pressure from Dugtrio to deal with Heatran. The EVs are somewhat arbitrary, with the Speed EVs being the only section of note. The EVs allow Venusaur to outpace +2 Cloyster, Scarf Latios, Scarf Terrakion, and the standard Modest Venusaur. The other EVs were tossed into the attacking stats, with this distribution working the best out of all the distributions I tried. Life Orb magnifies Venusaur's power, and makes up for the lack of Growth on it.

Venusaur isn't a sweeper per se. It's more of a revenge killer that can clean up should the opponent manage to kill off Volcarona mid-sweep. Venusaur also allows me to not worry about offensive DD Dragonite and ScarfMence, both normally threats to sun teams. Shell Smash Cloyster is also soundly revenge killed by this Venusaur, eliminating it from this team's list of worries. Early on, Venusaur is used to scout the opponent's team, sleeping one threat and threatening with its powerful Giga Drains. In the mid-game, Venusaur is used to assassinate various threats to Volcarona's sweep, such as Landorus, Terrakion, and the aforementioned Dragons. It's also in the mid-game that Venusaur's roles as a revenge killer and lure are manifested. During the mid-game, people tend to blindly switch their Heatran into a Giga Drain, expecting no opposition from Venusaur, only to take an Earthquake the next turn. It's a large surprise that has caught many people off-guard as I was running up the ladder. In the endgame, if it's too risky for Volcarona to sweep a weakened team (a rare occurrence), Venusaur is used to sweep through the opponent's team. Venusaur is the best Chlorophyll sweeper that I have used on this team so far. However, I am always willing to take suggestions for this slot of the team.

Again, there's no exact reason I named Venusaur Hold Your Colour. I just like how the song sounds, and thought it fitted Venusaur perfectly. The rhythm of the song seems to be personified when using Venusaur, and that's that.[/BOX]
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There's not much more that can be said about this team that what already has been said. Sun still is a powerful weather to abuse, and it most certainly has its advantages against rain and sand, two weather types often seen as superior. While it may look a bit unoriginal, I thoroughly believe that this sun team was one of the best teams I've ever designed. It's a blast to use, and unlike rain teams, it's not entirely screwed over if Kingdra shows up on the field.

Before I finish this RMT off, thanks to everyone in #tr_rule for being awesome dudes to talk with! Also, thanks for nominating me for my badge Delko! To my friends Harsha and Expert Physics, I can't refer to you as just my unofficial tutees and co-admins anymore. You two have grown into full-fledged battlers and people of your own, and it makes me proud to see how far you two have gone. Maybe someday I'll catch up to you both. This RMT is for you guys, so have at it! If you liked it, be sure to comment, and if you use this team, leave a Luvdisc please.
 
Pokemon that are not threats are in this color.
Situational threats are in this color.
Threats on a massive scale are in this color.

This list is still being worked on!

Threats that don't apply to any list:

Hax: THE most annoying part of Pokemon. Hax has cost me many ladder matches during my test runs, and is an overall frustrating part of battling. Alas, I can't do anything but complain about it, seeing that Pokemon does involve an element of luck, which seems to have an increasing chance of meddling in battles the further up I go in the ladder. /endrant

Offensive threats:
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Tornadus-T: Only a threat if I can't keep the rain off the field, which is extremely rare. Under the sun, its threat level is reduced immensely.
  • Life Orb: Make sure the rain isn't up first. This could get deadly really fast if I can't get the rain off the field.
  • Choice Specs: Keep the rain off the field. Heatran usually is the first to take it on.
186.png
Politoed: Rain is a problem, but it's not an insurmountable problem. It's surprisingly easy to eliminate.
  • Defensive: Heatran does a good job at trapping it. Generally the least worrisome of the Politoed variants out there.
  • Choice Scarf: Timid versions require me to think more when I battle. Modest versions lose to Dugtrio.
  • Choice Specs: Loses to Dugtrio. Venusaur can work in a pinch.
  • 3 Attacks: A relic of the past. Generally handled by Dugtrio and Venusaur.
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Mamoswine: Aah. Volcarona can set up on variants lacking Stone Edge, and Heatran can handle Adamant versions. Jolly versions are problematic if Venusaur is weakened.
  • Physical Attacker: Only a problem if it has Stone Edge. Forretress can check Mamoswine in a pinch, but I'd rather it not come down to that. At full health, Venusaur can live through an Ice Shard and OHKO with Giga Drain.
  • Choice Scarf: Who uses this set? All jokes aside, Venusaur is a great Pokemon that can easily contain it.
  • Lead: Forretress wins one on one. Haven't seen this one in a while though.
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Latios: It's not too much of a threat to the team unless used well. A bit annoying to deal with at times.
  • Specs: Get it to use Draco Meteor on Heatran or Forretress. Then, use the weakened Latios as set-up fodder for Volcarona. If it's weakened, it can be revenge killed by Venusaur.
  • Scarf: Usually weaker than the Specs variant, so Volcarona and the rest of the team have an easier time against it.
  • Offensive: Similar processes as the Specs set, except I have to be more careful since it can switch moves. Still not too much of a problem.
  • Calm Mind: Sleep it with Venusaur. Roar it out with Ninetales (assuming I'm using a specially bulky spread). Volcarona can set up alongside this unless it has Psyshock.
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Scizor: The laughingstock of Heatran, Ninetales, Forretress, and Volcarona.
  • Choice Band: Loses to Heatran, Ninetales, and Volcarona. Can't do enough to Forretress.
  • Offensive Swords Dance: This is handled easily by Heatran and Volcarona. Nothing too big to be frightened of.
  • Bulky Swords Dance: Same as the offensive Swords Dance set, except Ninetales doesn't have to worry as much.
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Breloom: Only a problem before Spore is used. Once Spore is used, it becomes Volcarona's personal laughingstock.
  • Swords Dance: The only problem is Spore. Volcarona can take a boosted Bullet Seed or Mach Punch.
  • Bulk Up: Still a good set, but it rarely sees use. Volcarona and Heatran brutalize it.
  • SubPunch: Volcarona can take a Focus Punch and break the sub. From there, it can threaten with another Fiery Dance and force a switch.
  • SubSeed: Can't beat Venusaur.
642-therian.png
Thundurus-T: One of the most powerful threats in OU. Can cause headaches if I allow it to run wild.
  • Nasty Plot: The strongest Pokemon in OU, but if the sun is up, Venusaur can revenge kill. Dugtrio's Memento can help if I don't need it. Since it usually tries to set up on Ninetales, I can pHaze it away, resetting its boosts.
  • Agility: One of the few threats that Venusaur can't revenge kill; Volcarona can set up and beat it.
  • Scarf: Stealth Rock limits Thundurus-T's switches into this team, limiting its revenge killing capabilities.
149.png
Dragonite: Stealth Rock contains Dragonite, and punishes it for trying to meddle with the team. Once it's locked into Outrage, it's dead. Special variants aren't as problematic. Ninetales outspeeds before a Dragon Dance, allowing it to burn Dragonite, effectively neutering it. Only a problem if Ninetales misses its mark. Hidden Power Ice on Heatran has helped reduce the threat level of this Pokemon.
  • Dragon Dance: Only a problem if Ninetales misses its mark with Will-O-Wisp. Hidden Power Ice on Heatran has helped extensively against this set. Venusaur can revenge kill if it's locked into Outrage.
  • Choice Band: Knock off Multiscale, and Venusaur has free reign over Dragonite's life.
  • SubDD: Mispredicting its moves can cost me a Pokemon. Roaring it out with Ninetales seems to be the best method of dealing with it. As always, Venusaur can revenge once Multiscale is knocked away. The threat level of this set has been reduced upon adding Hidden Power Ice to Heatran.
  • Rain Tank: Its main attacks are effectively neutered in the sun. Venusaur can snip it off once Multiscale is deactivated.
  • Classic Mixed Attacker: Life Orb makes Dragonite shed its Multiscale, making it that much easier to revenge kill.
  • Rain Mixed Attacker: Take away the rain, and it can't do much. as always, Venusaur can kill it off.
  • pHazer: Annoying, but Ninetales can Roar before Dragonite uses Dragon Tail. As always, keep Stealth Rock on the field.
385.png
Jirachi: Gee, how many sets do you even have? Doesn't matter though, since they all fall to Volcarona and Heatran.
  • SubCM: Ninetales can pHaze it out; Volcarona can set up alongside Jirachi. Heatran can just kill it. Make sure rain is off the field though.
  • Choice Scarf: Volcarona can set up on this with ridiculous ease, unless it gets extremely lucky with flinches. Heatran doesn't care about this set, and roasts it with Magma Storm.
  • SubPara: Evil set. It's good that nobody uses it though. Another reason I'm contemplating the use of Substitute over Roost.
  • Mixed Attacker: Another set Volcarona and Heatran laugh at.
  • Superachi!: Volcarona can set up alongside this, and Ninetales can Roar it out. Heatran can still OHKO this at +1 under the sun with Magma Storm.
  • Wish + CM: Heatran and Volcarona have fun with this set.
485.png
Heatran: A problem if I play badly. Otherwise, it's easy pickings for Dugtrio and Venusaur. From testing, Hidden Power Rock on Ninetales has proven itself to be extremely useful here.
  • Offensive: Normally, these switch into Venusaur's Giga Drain or Hidden Power, expecting no opposition, only to be surprised by a sudden Earthquake. Still works against most people, surprisingly enough.
  • Sunny Day Attacker: If these things lack Earth Power, then my Heatran beats them with ease. If they do have Earth Power, then I'll need to pop the Air Balloon before I can do anything. Otherwise, same process as the standard offensive Heatran.
  • Magma Storm: Same process, except that Dugtrio is now the main contender in this fight.
  • Substitute: This set defines hit-or-miss match-ups. It's great against many types of teams, but horrible against others. If it uses Toxic, then Heatran can switch in and attack with relative impunity.
  • Choice: Heatran works until its Air Balloon is popped. Venusaur can revenge kill all Choice variants.
639.png
Terrakion: One of Volcarona's counters, and a Pokemon I extensively prepared for as I was building this team. Having three Pokemon that are beaten by it may seem bad, but I have three that can contain Terrakion without problems.
  • Choice Band: Strongth, but it can't get past Dugtrio. Venusaur can revenge, and Forretress works in a pinch.
  • Choice Scarf: Venusaur outspeeds and absorbs Terrakion's life essence with Giga Drain.
  • Double Dancer: If it gets a Rock Polish boost, then Dugtrio is the first option that can face it. Forretress works in a pinch as well.
  • Sub + SD: Incredibly tough to break if I mispredict; usually involves sacking Forretress so I can get Dugtrio in safely.
 
I just have to say wow ! This is definetly the best sun team ive ever seen and maby the best builded team ive seen ever, the only thing i see as a weakness is if you loose the weather war especially against rain as 4 off your mons are weak to water and you have just venusaur to resist that. Very impressive i just have make that clear ! Luvdisc'd
 
Hi TNT,

Nice Solid Sun Team you have here with very few exploitable problems. Like I mentioned to you on IRC, I really do think Hidden Power [Rock] would be much better on Ninetales over Sunny Day. The main perk of Hidden Power [Rock] is being able to hit Volcarona as it sets up, while also being able to break opposing Balloon Heatran's Balloon. Breaking Heatran's Balloon is important because it guarantees you can get Dugtrio in safely to revenge Heatran before it gets Stealth Rock up. As for Volcarona, it helps when it is the last Pokemon. In a 1v1 situation, Hidden Power [Rock] helps against all variants of Quiver Dance Volcarona, especially when you cannot phase Volcarona out with Roar if Volcarona is the last opponent's Pokemon. Between Bulky Ninetales and Sunny Day Heatran, I doubt you have that much maintaining your weather, especially if you play well with Dugtrio. It takes some of the pressure off of Dugtrio to be able to check Volcarona, and you run the risk of relying on Stone Edge.

If you choose to go with this change, you might find there is less need to go with Stone Edge on Dugtrio to beat Volcarona. You really do not need to rely on Dugtrio to take down Volcarona when Ninetales is already a pretty solid check to it with Hidden Power [Rock]. As a result, you could consider trying out Stealth Rock > Stone Edge on Dugtrio. Given that Dugtrio's niche in OU is being able to trap opposing weather inducers, namely Tyranitar, you can afford to make this change. Defensive Tyranitar is outsped by Dugtrio and brought down to it's Sash, meaning that you can easily get up Stealth Rock and remove it with a max power Reversal. Losing Stone Edge is really not that much of a drawback, as the main things you hit, (Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence) are all crippled by Memento and forced to switch again. This is great because it racks up even more Stealth Rock damage, severely weakening the aforementioned Pokemon making them much easier to deal with for Venusaur.

If you've been paying attention, you'll notice that running Stealth Rock on Dugtrio opens up another moveslot for Forretress. You may want to try Spikes > Stealth Rock on Forretress, as extra hazards are greatly appreciated on a team with Venusaur that lacks Growth. The extra Spikes damage is also important for racking up extra damage on Politoed, who is generally pretty annoying for Sun Teams to deal with. The extra Spikes damage can be enough to put Politoed in range for Dugtrio to revenge with Reversal, or for Heatran to take down with Earth Power.

Good luck!
 
I would consider bumping up Volcarona's speed to 263 speed, which is just enough to outspeed Timid base 70 (mainly Politoed), and scarf base 110 (Latios) after two quiver dances. A spread of 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Speed (Timid) might work if you want to retain the bulk, although personally I would rather use a Modest Volcarona with 108 Speed EVs.
 
Hey, very solid (if very conventional) Sun team. There are three main threats which stand out to me; Bliss / Chans, Volcarona, and Rain. I honestly can't see how you don't flat out lose to a pink blob; literally, nothing on your team can hurt them. Volcarona isn't as bad, seeing as it's checked by Ninetales and Dugtrio if it still has its Sash, but still something to be cautious of. Finally, you do look somewhat weak to Rain. Your only real way of beating it is to take out Politoed with Heatran, but, especially as you get nearer the top of the ladder, players will be more conservative in switching in.

Now, what can you do to fix these issues? The most obvious solution is to run some form of Gothitelle / Wobbuffet over Heatran. Both take out defensive Toed and Bliss / Chans fairly comfortably (you can Tickle the blobs with Wobb then switch to Dugtrio to finish if necessary). There are other solutions, but they would all require more drastic changes to your team.

Volcarona is still an issue, and in fact, together with Sun as a whole, more problematic with the loss of Tran. You really do need to put SR on Dugtrio, though not necessarily remove it from Forretress. Against opposing Sun, Forretress will almost never get the chance to lay SR; whereas Dugtrio will. In conjunction, you can virtually guarantee getting rocks up fairly early to stop Volcarona setting up easily.

I think that's everything. Hope these suggestions help :)
 
I've already said this like 2 mins ago on IRC but I thought I might as well post it here anyway.

Yeah, its standard sun so its everything you'd expect sun is weak to. Dragonite is obviously a threat, especially because you aren't running Hidden Power [Ice] Heatran or Forretress, and Venusaur doesn't appreciate boosted ExtremSpeeds at all. Both Dragon Dance and Choice Band variants are very threatening to this team, as they are to any Sun team. Latios is in the same boat but it doesn't have priority so Venusaur makes a viable revenge killer. Mamoswine hits everything hard as hell between Ice Shard and Earthquake; Gyro Ball Forretress is an okay check but it doesn't want to switch-in more than once. Lucario is another big threat, OHKOing everything on your team at +2 after Stealth Rock, and whilst it can only reliably set-up on Forretress, there will be always be scenarios where a good/ballsy Lucario player can manage to get up a Swords dance elsewhere (e.g. Lucario vs Heatran when you can't afford to sac Heatran).

Obviously this team is synergetically very solid and as a result its very difficult to replace anything. However, its next to impossible to patch-up these weaknesses reliably without replacing a Pokemon somewhere. If you are up for switching some Pokes around, I think Cresselia is the best Pokemon available to patch-up all of the aforementioned threats:

Spr_4p_488_s.png
Bag_Leftovers_Sprite.png

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Thunder Wave / Lunar Dance
- Moonlight

Cresselia is bulky as hell, beating DDNite 1v1 and beating CBnite most of the time 1v1 too (CBnite is already dealt with okay between Will-O Ninetales, plus Venusaur can revenge-kill it when locked into Outrage, but beating DDnite is important here), as well as being a hard counter to standard Lucario and Mamoswine. 36 SAtk EVs allow Cresselia to lure and OHKO Scizor in the sun, as well as lure Forretress and Ferrothorn to help Venusaur sweep. Psyshock hits CM Keldeo and Terrakion in sand etc harder than Psychic, but Psychic is still a viable option if you'd rather hit Bulk Up Conkeldurr harder. This thing can easily tank hits from and slowly whittle down entire teams, as well as being an excellent utility check to all of the Pokemon your team has trouble with. The only issue is finding something to put it over. I'd personally say Volcarona is the most expendable (despite being easily the most threatening sweeper in BW2; what am i smoking, right?), but as always you know your team far better than I do. I'd say its at least worth a test.

If you don't want to replace anything for Cresselia, I think it would be worth bumping up Ninetales' speed to Timid nature with 96 Speed EVs, allowing it to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine as well as Adamant Lucario. You'll still lose to a +2 Lucario but it at least stops your opponent from KOing you with Close Combat pre-Swords Dance.

Good luck.
 
Since BW2 came out I have seen a rise in Volt turn teams with Dugtrio and an optional weather. Even with the Sand/Rain gone your team has a huge problem with Dugtrio, Air Balloon tran gets popped on the U-turn and since Forretress is not an easy switch vs volt turn, rocks will be up a lot. Meaning Volc/Tales can not switch in as they would like.

I know this may sound very strange (even stupid,) but your weather is very important for this team to win in BW2, so I suggest maybe shed shell on Tales to avoid the traps with Dugtrio. Also a bulkier set on Venu will help you handle scarf Poli better, with nothing else too take on scarf Politoed effectively, with all other Pokemon being OHKO'd by it with rocks support and Rain up. Blissey/Chansey are still a problem is you do this, but bw2 has so many threats it's nearly impossible to get round all of them.

Btw LOVE the way you made it, one of the best RMT's I have ever seen
 
Hello, really solid team you got here!

Now like everybody else said, stuff like Swords Dance Lucario, Dragonite, and Chansey all can basically destroy you if given the chance to set up, while Chansey can easily take advantage of being able to stop your two sweepers Volcarona and Venusaur. To at least aid in your Lucario problem, you can try Earthquake over Stealth Rock on Forretress, and then moving to onto Dugtrio over Memento. This way you can at least manage to check Lucario easier, which at least somewhat helps you. Also, if you choose not to do the suggestion below, you can try Hidden Power Ice on Heatran over Earth Power to check Dragonite much easier.

This is only a small option, but you can also test out Virizion to help handle Chansey a bit better. It still provides a solid Rotom-W check and allows you to keep similar type weakness / resistances with the team. Also, Scarf Heatran is a viable option. It checks stuff like Lucario, and I really feel it could do some good.

Virizion @ Lum Berry | Justified
252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Hidden Power Ice
 
chansey straight up 6-0es, if carrying toxic which most do, chesto rest volcarona will fix that up or maybe taunt on heatran, its definitely something you will want to fix, there is also a reliance on trapping by dugtrio, and not being trapped by enemy dugtrio, also dangerous is certain dragons and the fact that forretress is your only landorus switchin and can be easily dispatched by a uturn out to a magnezone, these are problems that come with the playstyle though, and i cant see them being solved reliably without veering away from the ninetales/dugtrio/spinner/venusaur/heatran/filler archetype
 
I just have to say wow ! This is definetly the best sun team ive ever seen and maby the best builded team ive seen ever, the only thing i see as a weakness is if you loose the weather war especially against rain as 4 off your mons are weak to water and you have just venusaur to resist that. Very impressive i just have make that clear ! Luvdisc'd
Thanks for the comment and the Luvdisc!
Hi TNT,

Nice Solid Sun Team you have here with very few exploitable problems. Like I mentioned to you on IRC, I really do think Hidden Power [Rock] would be much better on Ninetales over Sunny Day. The main perk of Hidden Power [Rock] is being able to hit Volcarona as it sets up, while also being able to break opposing Balloon Heatran's Balloon. Breaking Heatran's Balloon is important because it guarantees you can get Dugtrio in safely to revenge Heatran before it gets Stealth Rock up. As for Volcarona, it helps when it is the last Pokemon. In a 1v1 situation, Hidden Power [Rock] helps against all variants of Quiver Dance Volcarona, especially when you cannot phase Volcarona out with Roar if Volcarona is the last opponent's Pokemon. Between Bulky Ninetales and Sunny Day Heatran, I doubt you have that much maintaining your weather, especially if you play well with Dugtrio. It takes some of the pressure off of Dugtrio to be able to check Volcarona, and you run the risk of relying on Stone Edge.

If you choose to go with this change, you might find there is less need to go with Stone Edge on Dugtrio to beat Volcarona. You really do not need to rely on Dugtrio to take down Volcarona when Ninetales is already a pretty solid check to it with Hidden Power [Rock]. As a result, you could consider trying out Stealth Rock > Stone Edge on Dugtrio. Given that Dugtrio's niche in OU is being able to trap opposing weather inducers, namely Tyranitar, you can afford to make this change. Defensive Tyranitar is outsped by Dugtrio and brought down to it's Sash, meaning that you can easily get up Stealth Rock and remove it with a max power Reversal. Losing Stone Edge is really not that much of a drawback, as the main things you hit, (Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence) are all crippled by Memento and forced to switch again. This is great because it racks up even more Stealth Rock damage, severely weakening the aforementioned Pokemon making them much easier to deal with for Venusaur.

If you've been paying attention, you'll notice that running Stealth Rock on Dugtrio opens up another moveslot for Forretress. You may want to try Spikes > Stealth Rock on Forretress, as extra hazards are greatly appreciated on a team with Venusaur that lacks Growth. The extra Spikes damage is also important for racking up extra damage on Politoed, who is generally pretty annoying for Sun Teams to deal with. The extra Spikes damage can be enough to put Politoed in range for Dugtrio to revenge with Reversal, or for Heatran to take down with Earth Power.

Good luck!
Thanks Jimbon! I'll give your ideas a test run!
I would consider bumping up Volcarona's speed to 263 speed, which is just enough to outspeed Timid base 70 (mainly Politoed), and scarf base 110 (Latios) after two quiver dances. A spread of 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Speed (Timid) might work if you want to retain the bulk, although personally I would rather use a Modest Volcarona with 108 Speed EVs.
I'll try that out later. Thanks!
Hey, very solid (if very conventional) Sun team. There are three main threats which stand out to me; Bliss / Chans, Volcarona, and Rain. I honestly can't see how you don't flat out lose to a pink blob; literally, nothing on your team can hurt them. Volcarona isn't as bad, seeing as it's checked by Ninetales and Dugtrio if it still has its Sash, but still something to be cautious of. Finally, you do look somewhat weak to Rain. Your only real way of beating it is to take out Politoed with Heatran, but, especially as you get nearer the top of the ladder, players will be more conservative in switching in.

Now, what can you do to fix these issues? The most obvious solution is to run some form of Gothitelle / Wobbuffet over Heatran. Both take out defensive Toed and Bliss / Chans fairly comfortably (you can Tickle the blobs with Wobb then switch to Dugtrio to finish if necessary). There are other solutions, but they would all require more drastic changes to your team.

Volcarona is still an issue, and in fact, together with Sun as a whole, more problematic with the loss of Tran. You really do need to put SR on Dugtrio, though not necessarily remove it from Forretress. Against opposing Sun, Forretress will almost never get the chance to lay SR; whereas Dugtrio will. In conjunction, you can virtually guarantee getting rocks up fairly early to stop Volcarona setting up easily.

I think that's everything. Hope these suggestions help :)
Volcarona in general can beat Blissey and Chansey, since it can Quiver Dance up and smash Chansey / Blissey. I've thought of using Substitute over Roost on Volcarona to ruin revenge killing attempts and status-inducers. Also, to be honest, I haven't found opposing Volcarona to be too much of an issue thanks to the ease in which I can get Stealth Rock down.
I've already said this like 2 mins ago on IRC but I thought I might as well post it here anyway.

Yeah, its standard sun so its everything you'd expect sun is weak to. Dragonite is obviously a threat, especially because you aren't running Hidden Power [Ice] Heatran or Forretress, and Venusaur doesn't appreciate boosted ExtremSpeeds at all. Both Dragon Dance and Choice Band variants are very threatening to this team, as they are to any Sun team. Latios is in the same boat but it doesn't have priority so Venusaur makes a viable revenge killer. Mamoswine hits everything hard as hell between Ice Shard and Earthquake; Gyro Ball Forretress is an okay check but it doesn't want to switch-in more than once. Lucario is another big threat, OHKOing everything on your team at +2 after Stealth Rock, and whilst it can only reliably set-up on Forretress, there will be always be scenarios where a good/ballsy Lucario player can manage to get up a Swords dance elsewhere (e.g. Lucario vs Heatran when you can't afford to sac Heatran).

Obviously this team is synergetically very solid and as a result its very difficult to replace anything. However, its next to impossible to patch-up these weaknesses reliably without replacing a Pokemon somewhere. If you are up for switching some Pokes around, I think Cresselia is the best Pokemon available to patch-up all of the aforementioned threats:

Spr_4p_488_s.png
Bag_Leftovers_Sprite.png

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Thunder Wave / Lunar Dance
- Moonlight

Cresselia is bulky as hell, beating DDNite 1v1 and beating CBnite most of the time 1v1 too (CBnite is already dealt with okay between Will-O Ninetales, plus Venusaur can revenge-kill it when locked into Outrage, but beating DDnite is important here), as well as being a hard counter to standard Lucario and Mamoswine. 36 SAtk EVs allow Cresselia to lure and OHKO Scizor in the sun, as well as lure Forretress and Ferrothorn to help Venusaur sweep. Psyshock hits CM Keldeo and Terrakion in sand etc harder than Psychic, but Psychic is still a viable option if you'd rather hit Bulk Up Conkeldurr harder. This thing can easily tank hits from and slowly whittle down entire teams, as well as being an excellent utility check to all of the Pokemon your team has trouble with. The only issue is finding something to put it over. I'd personally say Volcarona is the most expendable (despite being easily the most threatening sweeper in BW2; what am i smoking, right?), but as always you know your team far better than I do. I'd say its at least worth a test.

If you don't want to replace anything for Cresselia, I think it would be worth bumping up Ninetales' speed to Timid nature with 96 Speed EVs, allowing it to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine as well as Adamant Lucario. You'll still lose to a +2 Lucario but it at least stops your opponent from KOing you with Close Combat pre-Swords Dance.

Good luck.
Thanks PenguinX! I'll give Cresselia a run later and test Growth Venusaur while I'm at it.
Since BW2 came out I have seen a rise in Volt turn teams with Dugtrio and an optional weather. Even with the Sand/Rain gone your team has a huge problem with Dugtrio, Air Balloon tran gets popped on the U-turn and since Forretress is not an easy switch vs volt turn, rocks will be up a lot. Meaning Volc/Tales can not switch in as they would like.

I know this may sound very strange (even stupid,) but your weather is very important for this team to win in BW2, so I suggest maybe shed shell on Tales to avoid the traps with Dugtrio. Also a bulkier set on Venu will help you handle scarf Poli better, with nothing else too take on scarf Politoed effectively, with all other Pokemon being OHKO'd by it with rocks support and Rain up. Blissey/Chansey are still a problem is you do this, but bw2 has so many threats it's nearly impossible to get round all of them.

Btw LOVE the way you made it, one of the best RMT's I have ever seen
Shed Shell isn't a stupid idea. That's actually pretty clever. Thanks!
Hello, really solid team you got here!

Now like everybody else said, stuff like Swords Dance Lucario, Dragonite, and Chansey all can basically destroy you if given the chance to set up, while Chansey can easily take advantage of being able to stop your two sweepers Volcarona and Venusaur. To at least aid in your Lucario problem, you can try Earthquake over Stealth Rock on Forretress, and then moving to onto Dugtrio over Memento. This way you can at least manage to check Lucario easier, which at least somewhat helps you. Also, if you choose not to do the suggestion below, you can try Hidden Power Ice on Heatran over Earth Power to check Dragonite much easier.

This is only a small option, but you can also test out Scarf Heatran to handle Dragon Dance Dragonite and Swords Dance Lucario more reliably. Scarf Heatran is in no way a bad set, as it still carries multiple resistances to priority and has solid typing. Although you lose the Magma Storm, you can handle other weathers pretty decently. This is just an option, but you can try it.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf | Flash Fire
252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
Your suggestions look good PDC! I'll try them out sometime later!
chansey straight up 6-0es, if carrying toxic which most do, chesto rest volcarona will fix that up or maybe taunt on heatran, its definitely something you will want to fix, there is also a reliance on trapping by dugtrio, and not being trapped by enemy dugtrio, also dangerous is certain dragons and the fact that forretress is your only landorus switchin and can be easily dispatched by a uturn out to a magnezone, these are problems that come with the playstyle though, and i cant see them being solved reliably without veering away from the ninetales/dugtrio/spinner/venusaur/heatran/filler archetype
I'll try out ChestoRest Volcarona later. Dragons and Landorus aren't exactly a problem for this team since Venusaur can revenge kill them with incredible ease. Thanks Razza!
 
nice team, it's move-for-move the sun team i used on ps ladder for over a week

i'll hit you with a rate once i'm less busy. in the meantime, your presentation is gorgeous, luvdisc.
 
Great team and beautiful presentation, very good job ^_^

I haven't much to say, you can only try SR on dugtrio and spikes on forretress and hp ice > earth power on heatran for dragonite, also memento is a good idea for have a free setup with volcarona.
 
By the way as PenguinX suggested, Cresselia is also a very good counter to Special Landorus, which can OHKO/2HKO everything with Earth Power (Balloon Heatran is also OHKO'ed by Focus Blast). I also have to agree that as it looks, the most expendable member is Volcarona as Heatran is your primary way of winning the weather war particularly vs Rain, and Venusaur's ability to remove toxic spikes just by switching in is too great to pass up--removing Venusaur and keeping Volcarona won't make much sense as once toxic spikes are down Volcarona's sweeping time would be severely limited unless you can spin.
If you really want to keep both Volcarona and Venusaur, another option is to use Cresselia over Dugtrio. Now this would create more problems as you deal with Heatran, but at least you have EQ Venusaur so your sweep won't be stopped short. I believe the two other pokemon that Dugtrio handily traps can be dealt with well enough by the rest of the team, so you shouldn't be too concerned regarding that (Terrakion is handled by Cresselia and Forretress, while Tyranitar can be easily weakened as it needs to constantly switch in into Will'o'wisp, SR, Giga Drain, and Bug Buzz to get the sand back up--not to mention Heatran can possibly trap it).
 
Alright. I've been testing out all of your suggestions, and here's some changes I've established for the team:

Established Changes:

038.png

176 HP / 224 SpD / 108 Spe Calm ----> 160 HP / 248 SpD / 100 Spe Timid
Sunny Day ----> Hidden Power [Rock]


This change made dealing with offensive Heatran much easier, since I could use Hidden Power Rock to pop the Air Balloon. This change also makes offensive Mamoswine much less of a threat, since I can outspeed and burn it before it can attack. I'm still messing with the EVs not placed in the speed stat. The EVs being used at the moment maximize Ninetales's special bulk while retaining an odd HP number. The 100 Speed EVs compensates for the imperfect Speed IV forced by HP Rock.

205.png

Stealth Rock ----> Spikes

051.png

Stone Edge ----> Stealth Rock

Spikes has helped this team combat Chansey and Blissey more effectively. I'm aware that I have no spinblocker, but pretty much every spinner will try to come in on Dugtrio once it's down to one HP. From there, Dugtrio can use Memento, killing itself and giving an opportunity for one of its teammates to come in and potentially get a free kill. The most common spinners are Forretress, Starmie, and Donphan. Under the sun, Venusaur has a field day against the last two, while Ninetales, Heatran, and Volcarona can force Forretress out. Giving Dugtrio Stealth Rock has alleviated my dependancy on Forretress to lay hazards for the team. It controls Dragonite and Volcarona like nothing else.

Tentative Modifications:

038.png

Leftovers ----> Shed Shell

I like my recovery, but I also like the surprise people express when I switch my Ninetales out of their Dugtrio. I'll conduct more testing later to see which one is truly better, but from current experience, both items have proven their worth.

485.png

Earth Power ----> Hidden Power [Ice]

This helped a little bit against opposing Dragons, but Earth Power has performed just as well. I'm divided between the two since they both perform so effectively. Some help here would be appreciated.

637.png

Roost ----> Substitute

This change does help somewhat against Toxic Chansey, but not much else. I like the instant recovery Roost provides, but I also like the status protection that Substitute offers. Maybe I'll try out a Lum Berry over Leftovers...

Rejected Ideas:

637.png
---->
488.png


While I did like Cresselia's bulk, I didn't like its relative weakness, which made it falter against stall teams, a problem Volcarona didn't have. It also exacerbated the noted issue against Chansey and Blissey, which Spikes and Stealth Rock help with.

003.png

Sleep Powder ----> Growth

Venusaur was never meant to be a sweeper on my team. I missed the switch opportunities that Sleep Powder brought to the team, and Growth Venusaur is not the reason I built this team. Besides, Ditto revenges Growth Venusaur like nothing else.

Keep the rates coming! I'll update the OP with the changes fairly soon.
 
I don't think this team is as weak to Lucario and Mamoswine as you've suspected, PenguinX. He has a Bulky Volcarona, which only takes 62-73% from LO Adamant Mamoswine's EQ (Mornin Sun + Lefties heals 72%); plus he does have Forretress which can take 2 EQs and 2HKO with Gyro Ball. +2 LO Lucario's Close Combat is also only doing 66-77% to Volcarona. Trinitrotoluene should be able to play around these threats without majorly re-constructing this team.

If Cresselia is fitting anywhere it would be over Forretress. Cresselia checks dragons, just like Forretress. The team loses the vital Rapid Spin, but Volcarona does have sufficient bulk and access to Roost to heal off. Lunar Dance from Cress would certainly be a nice asset to this team.

Trinitrotoluene, you may want to consider max SpA and 96 Spe with Fire Blast. This would make Ninetales faster than Jolly Mamoswine and a 100% chance kill on Mamoswine after SR or LO-recoil.

Also I don't really see any point in Forretress's SpD EVs. Put those EVs into Attack so Forretress can actually 2HKO Mamoswine after SR. Toxic Spikes is probably more fitting on this bulky team. It would be more useful in weakening Blissey / Chansey than Spikes.

And yea, definitely stick with HP Ice on Heatran. It's one of the most reliable switch-ins to Dragonite, and not being able to take it out would suck. You already have Dugtrio and EQ Venusaur to dispatch Heatran anyways.
 
If he has to guarantee rocks aren't on the field to stop himself getting swept by Lucario, I'd say its a pretty huge threat. Everyone makes Stealth Rock a priority when facing a team with Volcarona so you can't just 100% assume that Stealth Rock won't be up just because he has a spinner.

EDIT: Also, if you decide to go with Shed Shell on Ninetales it might be a good idea to use Pain Split over Roar so you at least have some form of recovery. You do become more weak to CM Latias, but I think you still have a few options to handle / check it between Memento Dugtrio, bulky Volcarona, Sleep Powder + HP Ice Venusaur and Will-O-Wisp Ninetales. Luckily I've started seeing a lot of people opt for LO Latias (or at least non-CM variants) as a better Keldeo check via Psyshock so hopefully you won't be coming up against CM Latias as often. If you feel like you'd need extra insurance for Latias with the absence of Roar you could try Toxic over Will-O-Wisp on Ninetales. Alternatively you could keep Roar and drop Will-O-Wisp for Pain Split instead.
 
Hey TNT, nice sun team. Beautiful presentation. Anyways, onto the team. There are not much changes that can be made to the team as it is already very solid. Dragonite looks a bit problematic, however. An option you have is trying out Hidden Power Ice over Volt Switch on Forretress to tank it when it is locked into Outrage and smack it back with HP Ice. This does allow Magnezone to easily switch in and trap you, but a Shed Shell over Leftovers helps stop that. Although you lose recovery from Leftovers each turn, it allows Forretress to switch out on the steel trapper and not get completely annihilated. You are effectively able to set up Spikes on the obvious predicted Magnezone switch, without worrying to get trapped too. If you do decide to give it a shot, the EV Spread is 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA. Hope I helped and good luck with the team.
 
Yep, agreeing with everyone else in that its your average sun team (like Lavos Spawn I have one thats pretty much the same). Its a solid team, by and large you have most things covered, although if you really didn't like Bliss / Chansey you could always run Taunt on Heatran which really screws them over if they switch in on a Magma Storm. Taunt would also give you an easier time against Sub DD Dragonite since you could PP stall Dragon Claw or at least force it out. Regardless, its just something to consider if you found Nite / Chansey a real problem, your team is pretty solid as it is.

Well Done
 
its a pretty standard sun team so its obviously solid. try passho berry on heatran, which lets you tank a hit from a trapped scarf politoed so you can pull off sunny day + solarbeam. you also might want to consider hp ice over earth power since ep doesnt really hit anything that you havent already covered and it gives dragonite one less mon to set up a dd on.

also, try ditching stone edge or reversal on duggy for stealth rock, and then drop forry's sr for either hp ice or toxic. the former will help against sub toxic gliscor, who gives you a really hard time if heatran's balloon is popped, and the latter hits jellicent/sableye switch-ins, which will hopefully allow you to spin. if you go with hp ice, add 40~ evs to special attack.

lastly, chansey/blissey are a bit of an issue, so try running growth > earthquake on venusaur. if you use dugtrio well, you shouldn't need eq, whereas growth lets venusaur beat the blobs and pose as a terrifying sweeper in its own right, seeing as you can't get much scarier than a special attacker that can beat the strongest special walls in the tier. the loss of eq means you can get rid of the naive nature and attack evs for extra special attack and/or bulk.
 
nice team, it's move-for-move the sun team i used on ps ladder for over a week

i'll hit you with a rate once i'm less busy. in the meantime, your presentation is gorgeous, luvdisc.
Thanks for the Luvdisc! I'll be waiting for your rate.

Great team and beautiful presentation, very good job ^_^

I haven't much to say, you can only try SR on dugtrio and spikes on forretress and hp ice > earth power on heatran for dragonite, also memento is a good idea for have a free setup with volcarona.
Dugtrio has been given SR, and HP Ice has been working better than Earth Power as of late. Thanks for the suggestion A l e x a n d e r!

By the way as PenguinX suggested, Cresselia is also a very good counter to Special Landorus, which can OHKO/2HKO everything with Earth Power (Balloon Heatran is also OHKO'ed by Focus Blast). I also have to agree that as it looks, the most expendable member is Volcarona as Heatran is your primary way of winning the weather war particularly vs Rain, and Venusaur's ability to remove toxic spikes just by switching in is too great to pass up--removing Venusaur and keeping Volcarona won't make much sense as once toxic spikes are down Volcarona's sweeping time would be severely limited unless you can spin.
If you really want to keep both Volcarona and Venusaur, another option is to use Cresselia over Dugtrio. Now this would create more problems as you deal with Heatran, but at least you have EQ Venusaur so your sweep won't be stopped short. I believe the two other pokemon that Dugtrio handily traps can be dealt with well enough by the rest of the team, so you shouldn't be too concerned regarding that (Terrakion is handled by Cresselia and Forretress, while Tyranitar can be easily weakened as it needs to constantly switch in into Will'o'wisp, SR, Giga Drain, and Bug Buzz to get the sand back up--not to mention Heatran can possibly trap it).
Thanks for the clarification gr8astard!

I can tell you put in alot of work into the post, but your team is very generic.
Another tip for aspiring team raters: at least try to leave a suggestion if you're going to post in this thread. Don't just come in and post pointless fluff. It doesn't matter if that fluff is praise or criticism for a team. Justify your praise or criticism, and at least try to help improve the team.

I don't think this team is as weak to Lucario and Mamoswine as you've suspected, PenguinX. He has a Bulky Volcarona, which only takes 62-73% from LO Adamant Mamoswine's EQ (Mornin Sun + Lefties heals 72%); plus he does have Forretress which can take 2 EQs and 2HKO with Gyro Ball. +2 LO Lucario's Close Combat is also only doing 66-77% to Volcarona. Trinitrotoluene should be able to play around these threats without majorly re-constructing this team.

If Cresselia is fitting anywhere it would be over Forretress. Cresselia checks dragons, just like Forretress. The team loses the vital Rapid Spin, but Volcarona does have sufficient bulk and access to Roost to heal off. Lunar Dance from Cress would certainly be a nice asset to this team.

Trinitrotoluene, you may want to consider max SpA and 96 Spe with Fire Blast. This would make Ninetales faster than Jolly Mamoswine and a 100% chance kill on Mamoswine after SR or LO-recoil.

Also I don't really see any point in Forretress's SpD EVs. Put those EVs into Attack so Forretress can actually 2HKO Mamoswine after SR. Toxic Spikes is probably more fitting on this bulky team. It would be more useful in weakening Blissey / Chansey than Spikes.

And yea, definitely stick with HP Ice on Heatran. It's one of the most reliable switch-ins to Dragonite, and not being able to take it out would suck. You already have Dugtrio and EQ Venusaur to dispatch Heatran anyways.
Thanks for the rate Pocket! I've been testing out your ideas, and for Ninetales, I've been using an EV spread of 160 HP / 248 SpA / 100 Spe with a Timid Nature. The reason I'm using 100 Speed EVs is to compensate for the imperfect Speed IV that Hidden Power Rock forces upon Ninetales. I ended up moving Forretress's Special Defense EVs to Attack, and it's been working out quite nicely. I've been testing out Toxic Spikes, and they're working out quite well, especially considering that the most common Poison-types are beaten handily by this team. I quite like HP Ice on Heatran, actually. That's another change that has moved up to the Established Changes section. Again, thanks for the thorough rate Pocket!

If he has to guarantee rocks aren't on the field to stop himself getting swept by Lucario, I'd say its a pretty huge threat. Everyone makes Stealth Rock a priority when facing a team with Volcarona so you can't just 100% assume that Stealth Rock won't be up just because he has a spinner.

EDIT: Also, if you decide to go with Shed Shell on Ninetales it might be a good idea to use Pain Split over Roar so you at least have some form of recovery. You do become more weak to CM Latias, but I think you still have a few options to handle / check it between Memento Dugtrio, bulky Volcarona, Sleep Powder + HP Ice Venusaur and Will-O-Wisp Ninetales. Luckily I've started seeing a lot of people opt for LO Latias (or at least non-CM variants) as a better Keldeo check via Psyshock so hopefully you won't be coming up against CM Latias as often. If you feel like you'd need extra insurance for Latias with the absence of Roar you could try Toxic over Will-O-Wisp on Ninetales. Alternatively you could keep Roar and drop Will-O-Wisp for Pain Split instead.
I'll probably replace Roar with Toxic, and Will-O-Wisp with Pain Split. That seems to be the best method. Thanks PenguinX!

Where did you get the threat list for

Bw2
I made it myself, and I am still working on it.

Hey TNT, nice sun team. Beautiful presentation. Anyways, onto the team. There are not much changes that can be made to the team as it is already very solid. Dragonite looks a bit problematic, however. An option you have is trying out Hidden Power Ice over Volt Switch on Forretress to tank it when it is locked into Outrage and smack it back with HP Ice. This does allow Magnezone to easily switch in and trap you, but a Shed Shell over Leftovers helps stop that. Although you lose recovery from Leftovers each turn, it allows Forretress to switch out on the steel trapper and not get completely annihilated. You are effectively able to set up Spikes on the obvious predicted Magnezone switch, without worrying to get trapped too. If you do decide to give it a shot, the EV Spread is 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA. Hope I helped and good luck with the team.
Thanks for the rate S_L! While the idea of HP Ice on Forry seems good, I think it's better off on Heatran and Venusaur.

Yep, agreeing with everyone else in that its your average sun team (like Lavos Spawn I have one thats pretty much the same). Its a solid team, by and large you have most things covered, although if you really didn't like Bliss / Chansey you could always run Taunt on Heatran which really screws them over if they switch in on a Magma Storm. Taunt would also give you an easier time against Sub DD Dragonite since you could PP stall Dragon Claw or at least force it out. Regardless, its just something to consider if you found Nite / Chansey a real problem, your team is pretty solid as it is.

Well Done
Taunt is an interesting idea for Heatran. I'll give it a test run sometime later.

its a pretty standard sun team so its obviously solid. try passho berry on heatran, which lets you tank a hit from a trapped scarf politoed so you can pull off sunny day + solarbeam. you also might want to consider hp ice over earth power since ep doesnt really hit anything that you havent already covered and it gives dragonite one less mon to set up a dd on.

also, try ditching stone edge or reversal on duggy for stealth rock, and then drop forry's sr for either hp ice or toxic. the former will help against sub toxic gliscor, who gives you a really hard time if heatran's balloon is popped, and the latter hits jellicent/sableye switch-ins, which will hopefully allow you to spin. if you go with hp ice, add 40~ evs to special attack.

lastly, chansey/blissey are a bit of an issue, so try running growth > earthquake on venusaur. if you use dugtrio well, you shouldn't need eq, whereas growth lets venusaur beat the blobs and pose as a terrifying sweeper in its own right, seeing as you can't get much scarier than a special attacker that can beat the strongest special walls in the tier. the loss of eq means you can get rid of the naive nature and attack evs for extra special attack and/or bulk.
I'll give all of your ideas a test BKC. Thanks!
 
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