Pokémon XY General Discussion

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Didn't we also hear that there will be great changes in the game mechanics as well?

I agree that we have no idea how a Pokemon could perform in this new game mechanics thing.
No?
Well I mean there's Fairy type obviously and if Pokemonamie winds up being significant there's that but...
 
The bigger deciding factor for that would have to be non-trash stats with good-to-great movepools

Hopefully the dark typing greatly expands Chespin's movepool
Hidden abilities may also play a part (will there still be hidden abilities in X and Y?) in whether or not some of the starters are OU, depending on what their abilities are.

I don't know about most people but I'm dying for a speedy water starter for once....I mean look at the base speeds

Blastoise: 78
Feraligatr: 78
Swampert: 60
Empoleon: 61
Samurott: 70

I'm really rooting for froakie to end up speedy, and seeing as how it's the very first water starter to learn quick attack early gets my hopes up.
I'm really hoping for a froakie evo to be a water/fighting with Infernape base stats. Sceptile base stats are also okay, but only if it turns out to be water/dark. I don't know about other people but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
It might help Froakie speed-wise if Speed Boost were its hidden ability (since it would be able to have 78-ish speed to keep its other stats rather balanced, instead of its stats being bent toward speed and attack, leaving it with poor defenses), but then again, that's just what I'm/we're hoping for.
 
I can't believe Feraligatr is only equal in speed to the fat turtle... Gators are pretty agile, in and out of water.
But that's neither here nor there.

Froakie's design is seemingly slimmer than past first form water types, which could lend to a lankier and therefore faster build.
Here's just hoping he doesn't turn into to some Seismitoad/Swampert off-shoot.

I still hold the opinion that he will gain Flying type, altho I suppose fighting is not out of the question. Either one of these, from a flavor aspect, I could see as faster creatures than past water starters.
 
I think so, yes. I don't know how anyone could argue that grinding the Elite 4 for hours is more interesting or compelling than continuing on with a story would be. Granted, I finish these games WAY quicker than the 30-40 hours you suggest, so the games seem incredibly short to me, but I don't think you'd find many people that would be upset that the game is longer.

What is your reasoning for why the games shouldn't be longer? I've never once in almost two decades of gaming seen someone complain about a game they love being too long or longer than they expected.[/quote]
Two things. First of all, the development time and money required to add like 8-12 more gyms would be insane. Second, they'd run out of ideas and gym types unless the make some insane level curve that forces tons of grinding. At that point, the game gets boring after 50 hours or so, people don't finish the game, and they hold back on the next game. A longer game isn't necessarily better.
 
Oy Yveltal...I know it's been a WHILE but can you do me a solid and give us a rundown of what I missed?
Are we talking about tiers or something?
 
W-W-W-WHY DON'T YOU TWO LOVE ME??!

Don't worry baby, though the non-believers will discard you, I'll still be there. With my rather sassy Spritzee.

As for starter typings, I still stand by my initial observation of the first trailer.
Froakie's secondary move looked like wake-up slap. A la Fighting type.
Fenniken looks like it used Confusion/Psychic (couldn't really have been anything else). Psychic type.
And I'm 99% sure Chespin used Night Slash.. (purple animation and what looks to be a back and forth slashing motion). Dark type.
I don't think that the basic Pokemon will retain these types though, I believe they'll all be mono-element typed to start with.
 
Why do people think Froakie will evolve into a Flying type? Just because he learns Bounce? You know Politoed learns that naturally, and Toxicroak and Seismitoad can learn it too. It's not because they can fly, it's because they're frogs/toads and they hop.
 
Oy Yveltal...I know it's been a WHILE but can you do me a solid and give us a rundown of what I missed?
Are we talking about tiers or something?
In recent history, we were talking about the origins of Team Flare's design and went a little more in-depth on Pangoro and Malamar and what tiers we hope they would fall into. After Cobra's comment on how discussing tiers for individuals is silly, I think the next step would be to consider instead what tiers the known Gen VI Pokemon would fit compared to each other to keep talking at a mildly competitive level, but eh. We also discussed the prevalence and commonness of Poison types both in general and the Kalos region, which led to a discussion about what kinds of Pokemon we're likely to meet before fighting the Santalune City gym and where the starter Pokemon's strengths and flaws should be met by early route starters for the first couple of gym challenges. The conversation on Orotto has simmered down, as it got hard to talk about without knowing anything besides "it's an ent/treant of some sort".
And yes, for the twentieth time, starter types are being re-discussed.

And I'm 99% sure Chespin used Night Slash.. (purple animation and what looks to be a back and forth slashing motion). Dark type.
I don't think that the basic Pokemon will retain these types though, I believe they'll all be mono-element typed to start with.
You know I love you and I'll look to support your hypotheses the best I can, but we got a problem, sweetie.
Chespin's slashing attack has been discussed several times, and the best point that was made (which I vehemently backed because I didn't want people going without information) was that it is instead Aerial Ace.
Chespin's attack's animation:

Matches the attack animation used by Talonflame on Haunter:

And the BW animation of Aerial Ace...:

...instead of Night Slash, which doesn't look enough like what we think it should resemble to confuse the two:


-Second, the starters were all confirmed to be monotypes, but this is all old
(Out of all the XY thread, this topic makes me the saddest, bar the...umm...the cause of the first thread lockdown.......)
 
Why do people think Froakie will evolve into a Flying type? Just because he learns Bounce? You know Politoed learns that naturally, and Toxicroak and Seismitoad can learn it too. It's not because they can fly, it's because they're frogs/toads and they hop.

Some see a Water/Flying Froakie evo because of the bubbles on it's back. We don't know what the evolutions look like, of course, but many have speculated these bubbles slowly become a cloud the Froakie will either float on or sit on, similar to the genies or more like a bubble sage of sorts. Really, it's just based on appearance.

Similarly, it is a viable evolution typing because we've had a starter with the Flying-type, Charizard. I would bet the only type that truly isn't viable is Dragon, but this may change both with the presence of Fairy and because we seem to have early game access to a Dragon-type in Axew (I assume based on it being level 9 in the wild in a screenshot against a starter).
 
You know I love you and I'll look to support your hypotheses the best I can, but we got a problem, sweetie.
Chespin's slashing attack has been discussed several times, and the best point that was made (which I vehemently backed because I didn't want people going without information) was that it is instead Aerial Ace.
Chespin's attack's animation Matches the attack animation used by Talonflame on Haunter ...instead of Night Slash, which doesn't look enough like what we think it should resemble to confuse the two.
Second, the starters were all confirmed to be monotypes, SOOOOO~
(I disdain this topic sooooo much)
I think I missed the part where everyone came to this revelation. HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS BEFORE? I need to crawl in the dark corner of my room and rethink my life. I blame this booboo on wishful thinking.

I blame my statement of the obvious, on... uh.
I don't like the particular topic either, I was just defending my theory because I was adamant I was right... evidently not, haha. ^__^'
 
As an aside, I am sooo glad they seem to have gotten rid of/fixed the weird reaction damage for Aerial Ace

It just looked so bad, especially on a Pokemon like Golurk. You'd think they would have chosen a better showcase
 
I think the Grass/Dark, Fire/Psychic and Water/Fighting type leaks are legit. Here's why.

If you analyze the relationships of

Water-Fire-Grass

and

Psychic-Dark-Fighting

you'll notice that they have the same "Rock-Paper-Scissor" relationship.

Now, the Kalos region is about beauty, right? As in, balance. Symmetry.

Take a look at the typings again. No matter what matchup you choose, both of the Pokemon will have a STAB that is both resisted and super effective to the opponent. Balance.
 
Gaymer, you're always totally fine. Not recognizing information isn't a crime in my book -^.^-. It's failure to acknowledge and evaluate information that really puffles my jigglies

I'll be happy with damage animations if they figure out some sort of skew or jitter to move the attacked Pokemon based on the implied direction that the punch/kick/kiss/blast/leaves are going. Like, if there's a swiping animation going to the right, I want the Pokemon taking the damage to react appropriately and move to the right a bit in it's circle.
 
As an aside, I am sooo glad they seem to have gotten rid of/fixed the weird reaction damage for Aerial Ace

It just looked so bad, especially on a Pokemon like Golurk. You'd think they would have chosen a better showcase
I hate that it was assigned for Aerial Ace (the first shown animation), but I like Golurk's movement tbh. It shows a more dynamic aspect.

As for the starters' typing. It's pretty much likely that the rumors are true (much like several others were confirmed).


I think the Grass/Dark, Fire/Psychic and Water/Fighting type leaks are legit. Here's why.

If you analyze the relationships of

Water-Fire-Grass

and

Psychic-Dark-Fighting

you'll notice that they have the same "Rock-Paper-Scissor" relationship.

Now, the Kalos region is about beauty, right? As in, balance. Symmetry.

Take a look at the typings again. No matter what matchup you choose, both of the Pokemon will have a STAB that is both resisted and super effective to the opponent. Balance.
Psychic/Dark/Fighting aren't as "balanced" as Grass-Fire-Water, but they're close I guess. Also, Kalos' beauty theme may indicate more of areas and Pokemon design, rather than types, but it's quite possible they mean "beauty" for everything lol.
 
I hate that it was assigned for Aerial Ace (the first shown animation), but I like Golurk's movement tbh. It shows a more dynamic aspect.
But it looks bad. Golurk itself doesn't react at all, the model is simply pivoted around the foot area

The other attacks shown against Kirlia & Patrat worked because they had an actual reaction to it.
 
rock/flying/fighting is more balanced than dark/psychic/fighting tbh. the former is also a perfect triangle, akin to fire/water/grass.

also, since when does symmetry = beauty? personally i find that sometimes symmetry can be boring.
 
Take a look at the typings again. No matter what matchup you choose, both of the Pokemon will have a STAB that is both resisted and super effective to the opponent. Balance.
Dark is immune to Psychic, it's the only part of that "triangle" that creates a mild unfairness that a Psychic type couldn't overcome on it's STAB alone.
Not every matchup between the three is going to be perfectly "balanced", even though we all know to avoid the mistake of hitting a Dark type with Psywave. Sorry 'bout it.

Besides that, while it does make sense, there are other balanced triangles you could use on them. Rock, Flying and Fighting would work just as well between the three while having that perfect balance. I'd also suggest Fire, Ground and Steel if it wasn't already sorta kinda used in Gen 4, where they first pulled off the whole dual typed balance bit(though it was more like Fighting/Ground/Steel, but wut-ever). Grass, Rock and Flying would work, Ice, Ground and Fire could work...there's a couple of more, but all of those examples have the same amount of, if not more, balance than Fighting/Psychic/Dark.

I wonder if Fairy will form any new type triangles...following the rumors, Fighting/Steel/Fairy would work more or less...
 
Gaymer, you're always totally fine. Not recognizing information isn't a crime in my book -^.^-. It's failure to acknowledge and evaluate information that really puffles my jigglies

I'll be happy with damage animations if they figure out some sort of skew or jitter to move the attacked Pokemon based on the implied direction that the punch/kick/kiss/blast/leaves are going. Like, if there's a swiping animation going to the right, I want the Pokemon taking the damage to react appropriately and move to the right a bit in it's circle.

Oh baby, I could puffle your jigglies real good.

I would love for all the animations to be an improvement from what was produced in PBR, but can we really expect this from a handheld? I'll be ecstatic if they manage to keep the animations on par, let alone better them. But then, this isn't my most pressing issue. I'm more interested in typings and general design asthetics and the influences behind those. Which is why I love Spritzee so god damn much, I have HIGH hopes for that cute little plague doctor.

On another note, anyone want to hazard a guess at what Litleo could get as a typing upon evolving? A fighting/fire outside of the starters would be a cool change, the normal-typing gives me the impression that it could evolve swablu style. Same with Helioptile, although I have a hunch that his evolution might be the Poison/Electric type I've seen people list as a big request. It reminds me of the Dilophosaurus from jurrasic park. So it too could lose it's weird normal typing.

EDIT: Call me crazy, but the duo kinda look like a pairing, just like Magmar and Electabuzz.
 
I know I've asked this before but: Why do people keep thinking that Litleo & Helioptile will change their normal typings
The one single example of this is Swablu and that's because it's a bird (and I guess they had a hate for pure flying) becoming a Dragon.
& unlike other instances of type changes on evolutions (Surskit->Masquerain, Skorupi -> Drapion, Pupitar -> Tyranitar) there's nothing about these guys that immediately warrant a "normal" typing so, like...
if they were going to change typing then why bother giving Normal to the base forms at all when they could have easily just been pure electric & fire.

Can't we just keep our uniquely typed duders, please?
 
I know I've asked this before but: Why do people keep thinking that Litleo & Helioptile will change their normal typings
The one single example of this is Swablu and that's because it's a bird (and I guess they had a hate for pure flying) becoming a Dragon.
& unlike other instances of type changes on evolutions (Surskit->Masquerain, Skorupi -> Drapion, Pupitar -> Tyranitar) there's nothing about these guys that immediately warrant a "normal" typing so, like...
if they were going to change typing then why bother giving Normal to the base forms at all when they could have easily just been pure electric & fire.

Can't we just keep our uniquely typed duders, please?
If the evolved forms of Litleo and/or Helioptile tend to "embody" the aspects of another element (in this example, Poison for Helioptile), like Swablu -> Altaria (as in, Altaria is supposed to be more dragon-like), I think it would be fine to change their normal typing (that doesn't mean that they will, however).
 
If the evolved forms of Litleo and/or Helioptile tend to "embody" the aspects of another element (in this example, Poison for Helioptile), like Swablu -> Altaria (as in, Altaria is supposed to be more dragon-like), I think it would be fine to change their normal typing (that doesn't mean that they will, however).
Why should Helioptile embody poison?
 
Why should Helioptile embody poison?
It reminds me of the Dilophosaurus from jurrasic park. So it too could lose it's weird normal typing.
"Embody" probably isn't the most accurate word to use, but it's the only one I could think of at the moment! :p What I meant is that if its evolved form reflects more Poison-type-like characteristics (in its design, movepool, etc.), it might be logical for it to gain a Poison typing.
 
Why should Helioptile embody poison?
And again why even bother giving it normal typing in the first place

Swablu had it for the same reason every other Normal/Flying type had it: It was a bird without a connection to the other types ps gamefreak hated the idea of pure flying tpyes
 
And again why even bother giving it normal typing in the first place

Swablu had it for the same reason every other Normal/Flying type had it: It was a bird without a connection to the other types ps gamefreak hated the idea of pure flying tpyes
Maybe, just maybe, Litleo and Helioptile are fire and electric types respectively, without being connected to any other type. Yeah we don't know why they were given Normal typing, but we can't disprove any explanation for them having it at this point. It's all theories, hopes and opinions here, very little fact.
My only guess is that they were given it as a base for something else. Just like swablu. GF's reasonings don't always correlate with every other decision they've made so far.
 
I guess the thing that just gets me is that had they been, i don't know, part ground, there wouldn't be this discussion at all

to put it another way why is no one clamoring for Skrelp to lose its poison typing
 
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