Pokémon XY General Discussion

[inanimate blob]

Gamefreak make stupid move like these, (see Hyperbeam).

Hyper Beam was actually a very strong and viable move in Gen 1, and even a bit in Gen 2. While nerfed today, it still had a purpose.

In fact, most moves can be considered along the lines of stepping stones in-game to make sure you don't completely blow your opponents out of the water early on.

 

[meganiultimate]

Hyper Beam was actually a very strong and viable move in Gen 1, and even a bit in Gen 2. While nerfed today, it still had a purpose.

The elemental HBs were very useful in the recent generations, and iirc, Giga Impact was created to become the physical counterpart to Hyper Beam. With the use of HB competitively, the only set I've used it on was a Modest Espeon w/ a Normal Gem. It is useful in WiFi battles, so use it to get a quick finish. It's more of a last-turn, life-or-death move. GI works best on Slaking, though.

I wonder what moves will become nerfed as TMs in Gen VI? I call Work Up.

 

[DinaIsha]

is it really that bad compared to critical hits and uuhhhhhhh i dunno plenty of stuff. Probably.

What's wrong with Critical Hits? They're supposed to happen rarely. How would one construe that as "bad"?

 

[R_N]

What's wrong with Critical Hits? They're supposed to happen rarely. How would one construe that as "bad"?

He's not saying something's wrong with them, it's just that the type of randomness suggested for that type of dual type attack is bad in comparison to the general randomness like critical hits or side effects

If you're using an attack it's likely do hit super effectively or hit hard neutrally. Critical hits or status are just nice bonuses.

meanwhile an attack that randomly switches between two types is a terrible kind of luck. It's nothing but risk for very little reward.
If you want stab you should use literally any other move because then you're guarantee'd it
If the type it's paired with has terrible match ups or worse yet an immunity, never ever use it
If god forbid this is your only stab option through that thing into the box and never let it see the light of day

The move would probably have to have fantastical power with great accuracy or some other great side effect to be worth using over anything else

 

[DinaIsha]

Well, yeah. Critical hits and secondary effects are in fact bonuses. But an attack with 50-50 probability isn't anywhere near the gambit of that kind of mechanic. About dual-type moves, if there's a Flying type move that also does Fire type damage, will it deal 16x damage on a Leavanny? Highly unlikely. So it's probably just that a STAB move will always do damage of another type.

 

[SMZ]

Pretty sure Digby's like button is stuck.

In all seriousness, I honestly couldn't see them making dual-type moves a random chance to shift between two types. It's either a half-half damage thing (like say Heat Wave having 50bp fire and 50 bp flying) or the after mentioned type-"psyshock" as in flying STAB with fire damage (cont with the Heat Wave example).

As for Newtwo and the shell thing. If it gets Shell Smash. I don't even wanna imagine how strong it'll be. Granted it might be too frail to pull it off (in Uber standards, but we're yet to see its stats anyway), but still.

On another note, if the Pokebeach rumors are all true, and there is in fact a second "Newtwo" that resembles Mew more than Mewtwo (Which was also hinted in the Japanese site before by showing two slots), then when the hell are they gonna reveal it? and why wasn't it in the movie? It just seems suspicious that they'd show one form and let go of the other. This is all assuming this part of the pokebeach rumors is true. Maybe I'm over my head with this particular part.

 

[DarkEspeon]

Well, yeah. Critical hits and secondary effects are in fact bonuses. But an attack with 50-50 probability isn't anywhere near the gambit of that kind of mechanic. About dual-type moves, if there's a Flying type move that also does Fire type damage, will it deal 16x damage on a Leavanny? Highly unlikely. So it's probably just that a STAB move will always do damage of another type.

But you gotta admit, that would be a hell of a damage calc, especially if you add on a crit, dual-STAB, an item, and sun. It would be funny to see that damage output.

If GF really wanted to do something interesting without breaking the game too much, I think they should give two item slots, where one is for permanent items and the other is for perishable items. It would probably nerf Trick, but at the same time buff Fling.

 

[SMZ]

But you gotta admit, that would be a hell of a damage calc, especially if you add on a crit, dual-STAB, an item, and sun. It would be funny to see that damage output.

If GF really wanted to do something interesting without breaking the game too much, I think they should give two item slots, where one is for permanent items and the other is for perishable items. It would probably nerf Trick, but at the same time buff Fling.

Hmm let's see. An obvious choice would be x Gem + any other item to boost a move once on any set that lacks Acrbobat. How would Trick work anyway? trade both items or only the permanent ones? oh and Yache (or Fairy reduce Berry lol) + Leftovers Dragonite. lolgg

Yeah no to the dual item thing (even if one is perishable).

 

[R_N]

As for Newtwo and the shell thing. If it gets Shell Smash. I don't even wanna imagine how strong it'll be. Granted it might be too frail to pull it off (in Uber standards, but we're yet to see its stats anyway), but still.

I think the guy was joking. The weird egg shell was part of the entire animation, not one attack followed by another.
And they certainly aren't going to make shell smash that extravagant.

On another note, if the Pokebeach rumors are all true, and there is in fact a second "Newtwo" that resembles Mew more than Mewtwo (Which was also hinted in the Japanese site before by showing two slots), then when the hell are they gonna reveal it? and why wasn't it in the movie? It just seems suspicious that they'd show one form and let go of the other. This is all assuming this part of the pokebeach rumors is true. Maybe I'm over my head with this particular part.

See the thing with newtwo is, like
Why was it in the movie at all. Why unveil it in March at all?
Absolutely nothing about it has been shown off about it other than it exists and that it is probably hella fast
We don't even have a name

It also barely had any merchandise at all and compared to Genesect & Slyveon, very little actual advertising. SABLEYE had more going for it

 

[SMZ]

I think the guy was joking. The weird egg shell was part of the entire animation, not one attack followed by another.
And they certainly aren't going to make shell smash that extravagant.

See the thing with newtwo is, like
Why was it in the movie at all. Why unveil it in March at all?
Absolutely nothing about it has been shown off about it other than it exists and that it is probably hella fast
We don't even have a name

It also barely had any merchandise at all and compared to Genesect & Slyveon, very little actual advertising. SABLEYE had more going for it

I agree this whole Newtwo limited information is weird. You'd imagine in a movie they'd at least give it a name. BTW did Sableye appear in the movie a lot? or was it like a cameo thing?

 

[R_N]

I agree this whole Newtwo limited information is weird. You'd imagine in a movie they'd at least give it a name. BTW did Sableye appear in the movie a lot? or was it like a cameo thing?

So far as I know, it was in the movie a fair amount. It never did anything super important, but it was always hanging around with Ash & Friends
It had its own section on the japanese movie sit, even

 

[Jimmyftw]

meanwhile an attack that randomly switches between two types is a terrible kind of luck. It's nothing but risk for very little reward.
If you want stab you should use literally any other move because then you're guarantee'd it
If the type it's paired with has terrible match ups or worse yet an immunity, never ever use it
If god forbid this is your only stab option through that thing into the box and never let it see the light of day

The move would probably have to have fantastical power with great accuracy or some other great side effect to be worth using over anything else

Well, yes you have a fair point, randomness is bad, but randomness is also incorporate everywhere in the game, from shinies to casino, one may say that the developer has a certain obsession with randomness.

As for the 50-50 dual type attack, I wouldn't call it terrible. It has the same chance of landing your desired type of attack as a 50% accurate move has to actually land a attack. Also, while I agree that this dual-type mechanic will be detrimental to a Pokemon who depend mainly on it, it will rarely be the case due to the prevalence of TMs and move tutors, not to mention level-up moves and breeding moves.

50-50 dual type attack could see some use on Pokemon with 4MSS. It's not really viable, but it's an alternative.

I wouldn't see dual-type attack using this mechanic of randomly switching between two types of attacks any less feasible than a Pokemon getting stab (same type attack bonus) on a different type of attack. Would it be call DTAB? Kidding aside, having stab where there is no stab defies the meaning of stab. Also, having stab on a different attack type is irrelevant to the name "dual-type attack," I mean, what makes it dual exactly then? The fact that a move receive stab while dealing different type? One type and a stab does not fit the description of "dual-type attack."

 

[SMZ]

50-50 dual type attack could see some use on Pokemon with 4MSS.

Yeah, umm... no. Pokemon with 4MSS like Metagross want a 5th move to get better coverage. A 50-50 SE move is a very risky move, especially when the opponent can kill/dent you in the following turn if you can't kill it first. I'd much rather have an always neutral move, than 50% SE one

Also, having stab on a different attack type is irrelevant to the name "dual-type attack," I mean, what makes it dual exactly then? The fact that a move receive stab while dealing different type? One type and a stab does not fit the description of "dual-type attack."

It could be interpreted in different ways, really. It all comes down to what Game Freak thinks is the suitable idea of "dual-typed" attack.

 

[R_N]

Well, yes you have a fair point, randomness is bad, but randomness is also incorporate everywhere in the game, from shinies to casino, one may say that the developer has a certain obsession with randomness.

Those are entirely different types of randomness which is my point

this type of randomness is too random to bother using. What is the upside, exactly? That you get the stab you could get more reliably otherwise? That 50% of the time you simply do not get the type you want? That 50% of the time you could theoretically be completely screwed?
You mention it'd clear up a move slot but it really wouldn't. 50% of the time your move wont be there.

It doesn't even have the quirky factor of using Metronome

also also also

Also, having stab on a different attack type is irrelevant to the name "dual-type attack," I mean, what makes it dual exactly then? The fact that a move receive stab while dealing different type? One type and a stab does not fit the description of "dual-type attack."

How would this not fall under "dual type." Two types are involved in the attack. It doesn't have to mean it deals both damage or that it switches between the two at random

All the leaker said was "there will be a few dual type attacks"
If there were a set of moves similar to our theoretical glow punch that's x type but deals y typed damage, describing them as "dual type" would be more concise especially when coming off memroy

 

[Jimmyftw]

this type of randomness is too random to bother using. What is the upside, exactly? That you get the stab you could get more reliably otherwise? That 50% of the time you simply do not get the type you want? That 50% of the time you could theoretically be completely screwed?
You mention it'd clear up a move slot but it really wouldn't. 50% of the time your move wont be there.

What about Zap Cannon? 50% of the time it deal electric damage and paralysis but 50% of the time it does absolutely nothing. Smells like Odor Sleuth doesn't it?

This is worst than a random dual-type attack in that it has 50% chance to give you the right move but 50% chance of giving a different move. However it has a 100% chance of doing stuff.

And I said random dual-type attacks are not viable, but just a niche alternative. It would be interesting to have in-game to shake things up a bit and I think it would be fun to have in-game as well.

Also, dual-type attack don't have to be necessary 50-50, they can be 75-25, 80-20, 90-10 or any other combination.

 

[R_N]

What about Zap Cannon? 50% of the time it deal electric damage and paralysis but 50% of the time it does absolutely nothing.

This is worst than a random dual-type attack in that it has 50% chance to give you the right move but 50% chance of giving a different move. However it has a 100% chance of doing stuff.

And I said random dual-type attacks are not viable, but just a niche alternative. It would be interesting to have in-game to shake things up a bit and I think it would be fun to have in-game as well.

50% of the time it deals a high amount of damage (really it should be upped to 150 but details) and 100% chance of dealing paralysis
However you can mess with accuracy. Gravity, for instance. Which is an actual niche people use unlike "well i really need <type> damage right now so go for broke i guess"

If this is how dual type moves work I feel sorry for any pokemon made to showcase them because they probably got screwed out of a move pool

 

[Codraroll]

"Fennekin used Fire Toe!"
"[Opponent] was hit!" (deals 40 Fighting Type damage)
"[Opponent] was singed by the attack!" (deals 40 Fire Type damage)

How unimagineable would that be? A dual type attack that deals both Fire and Fighting damage, without complicating the damage calculations or making it difficult to understand how the move works. Now, I've repeated this to the point of tediousness already, so better write something else to avoid bannage.

So, here it comes: The Kalos Discussion Map:


The text, if PhotoBucket is kind with me and it is visible, should explain what needs to be told. If you want to point out an area in Kalos to use in discussion, use this map for reference. It's more handy than "just to the left of the southernmost snowy town" or "That cave to the north of the Carnac Stones". If an object is intersected by a line, just use either of the two squares it's in, or say "Lumiose City is at (8, 6/7)" or something like that. Reuse or distribute if you like to, the copyright is Nintendo's and not mine. Though, I'd appreciate if you'd rehost it, because PhotoBucket would block my profile if bandwidth is exceeded.

To start off, that glowy bush at (12, 3) surely screams "Xerneas is here!" to me. What do you think?

 

[Anartya]

I'm curious how far we can surf. Is only limited to the light blue regions like (4,8) or (3,4)? Can we access tiles more dark blue regions like (1,1) or (1,9). Considering we have only a coastal dex, and not an underwater dex, my hopes are slim. If dive truly is back, I like it to be as massive as rse, but as visually appealing as bw/bw2.

And as some one posted previously, where does the train line go in (13,6)?

The amount of time it took to go from city to city was fairly quick in previous generations. But after seeing some of the pics of lumiose city and properly proportioning the size of buildings to character height ratio, makes kalos feel like the biggest region yet. It would take a long time to traverse all of kalos on a bike compared to Unova.

 

[R_N]

I could see the train line coming out at whatever city is at 5,5/5,6

the big building looks a lot like a train station and the tracks line up along that entire row

 

[Anartya]

I could see the train line coming out at whatever city is at 5,5/5,6

the big building looks a lot like a train station and the tracks line up along that entire row

Yup, you're right. I see the train tracks near the middle of (5,6). But is it a fence or train tracks around? The bottom of (5,5) looks like the daycare/breeding house.

 

[Magical Magmortar]

Any one notice the weird Stonehenge like object at 2,5? Also that weird white tree thing in lava at 6,7.

 

[Yveltal]

I could see the train line coming out at whatever city is at 5,5/5,6
the big building looks a lot like a train station and the tracks line up along that entire row

Notice how it goes all the way out to more tracks and another structure way off at 14, 6.
And yet...5,5 is the area most likely to have been shown in the trailer.
HOWEVER. The train may just have a use if the tracks do visibly go from one point to another, which I'm excited about. I love how the tracks just disappear into the land, like there's just a huge cave/tunnel that the train runs through(please have a cool post-game underground battle facility)

Any one notice the weird Stonehenge like object at 2,5? Also that weird white tree thing in lava at 6,7.

Just in case you are genuinely curious

(skip ahead to 2:45)

and also

 

[Lovedrive]

Just watch Weavile gets a move that has 140 BP and perfect acc. and is fighting or poison 50% of the time he would probably have to use it because well 140 bp fighting is really good right but at the same time everyone would hate it because you would get screwed over half the time because you know random and stuff.

 

[DarkEspeon]

Hmm let's see. An obvious choice would be x Gem + any other item to boost a move once on any set that lacks Acrbobat. How would Trick work anyway? trade both items or only the permanent ones? oh and Yache (or Fairy reduce Berry lol) + Leftovers Dragonite. lolgg

Yeah no to the dual item thing (even if one is perishable).

It would trade one of the items. And maybe balanced further by making some overpowered permanent items take both spots.

 

[Jimmyftw]

New move idea:

Item Switch: The user trades it's held item with one of your party Pokemon.

This could be useful. Say late game when you choice scarf user has little health left, it can use Item Switch to make another one of your Pokemon be the choice scarf user.