About the CB Terrakion example: Doesn't Aegislash make a pretty excellent counter/check? It resists one stab and is immune to the other in addition to having excellent base defenses and King's Shield. I know it's weak to Earthquake, but it's just more reason to not throw choice banded fighting moves around. Mega Gengar, too.
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That has nothing to do with the fact that Hippowdon risks getting 2HKOed by CB Terrakion only on Level 50.
I think there's some miscommunication here.
It is a travesty that PO has learnsets before PS does. Learnsets are the main reason why we haven't set up a gen 6 ladder yet, incidentally.
Learnsets aren't really my job, so for the past week I've been letting PS's other coders handle it. Us being later than PO is unacceptable to me, too, though, so today, I'm taking over and organizing an effort to finish them by tonight. You'll see learnsets ready and a ladder up by tomorrow.
Also, note that PS is open source (I presume Okuu's comment was a joke). If PS doesn't have learnsets, it's also partially your fault that you haven't added them either, you know.
edit: also this is off-topic so we should stop talking about it from now on.
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That's really not the point, though. The point is that Hippowdown should be able to stop Terrakion, and at level 100 he can. That's due to a powercreep, man.
It means that one particular minor damage change might be negated by the fact that new Pokemon exist as alternative counters.
It only has a 6% chance to KO right? I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that the calc is the ultimate counterargument to level 50 like some of you are suggesting.
(this thread is moving too fast for me...)
So... new counters exist because all moves in general do more? What?
I think you mean 'check'
As far as i know (and i could easily be wrong) but Slowbro seems like he can come in and scare a CB terrakion as well. True, it has X-scissor, but that takes a bit of prediction skill and it is entirely possible for the Hippo to stay in and now force terrakion out anyway. Also, a 6% chance, welcome to pokemon where luck is just as important and in some cases more important than skill, as there is still that 94% chance he fails to 2HKO and then faints.
glad to see your arguments are calm and well-rounded.
do most high-level arguments come with as many slapfights as this
I don't care what is used in the cartridge version, the highest level of competitive battling should be played with 'Mons at there highest level. That's completely possible in the normal game, and if it weren't for GF implementing this level 50 garbage, this whole point never would be discussed in the first place.
You have to level various 'Mons beyond 50 to evolve them and/or get there full move pools anyways. Others have made plenty more points, and it doesn't take that long to reach 100 anyways.
You have to level various 'Mons beyond 50 to evolve them and/or get there full move pools anyways. Others have made plenty more points, and it doesn't take that long to reach 100 anyways.
The Hippo you keep mentioning is already almost crippled beyond help even if it DOES survive, lv 100 or Lv 50.
there is a huge difference from a 30% to ko after sr to a 56% to ko after sr. First one is 100 second one is 50.
There are 39 Pokemon with a base speed of 60 and precisely two of them are actually viably capable of beating Starmie - Magnezone and Abomasnow. These Pokemon do not commonly use a choice scarf because they already have OU viable sets that are generally better and allowing them to outrun Starmie is unlikely to change that much. Magnezone is already plenty good enough without a buff and Abomasnow's hail is just annoying now that it doesn't last long enough to properly abuse. On top of that, it's not like Abomasnow is unusuable - you're not increasing diversity by any great degree by allowing it to revenge kill Starmie - hell, i'm pretty sure SDef Aboma could already pretty much beat Starmie, so it's not even gaining anything in that respect.
It feels like (and don't take this the wrong way) you're really desperate to latch on to any reason you can to support lvl 50 and thus you're trying to throw any fact you possibly can onto the pile with out actually considering the factual implications of the change. Hell, you spent half the thread moaning that OU is overcentralized and then said you thought a change that would undoubtedly increase centralization might be a good thing. That's wildl inconsistent.
You are missing the point again, you're just arguing semantics at this point (but you ever heard of Slack Off?)
It's just one example, but it demonstrates that there will be Pokemon that used to safely counter certain opponents and will no longer be able to. Many Pokemon will have to invest more heavily in bulk than they used to (taking EVs from their other stats) just to keep countering the same Pokemon, and some like Hippowdon will already be at their limit and will simply lose their ability to safely counter things they used to.
Lol, it's even worse when your internet is moving at .3% the speed it should be.
Or it just uses Slack Off after it takes the first hit, bringing it back to full health and possibly stalling Close Combat if Terrakion stays in. Whatever.
I quit competitive battling after gen 4, so I don't have a good idea on the complications of changing the stats to level 50. But I think that if the cartridge only allows for level 50, then the simulator should as well. I will take a lot of getting used too, but I would like the build teams on simulator then create then in game.
Indeed, I should've mentioned that. We are indeed open-source. You can check out our github, and contribute if you feel like it: https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown . Heck, I could contribute, but I'm being greedy and writing up scripts for work instead.
The main thing here is that the cartridge doesn't only allow for level 50, it just auto levels to it. People can still play level 100 battles if they want.
The cartridge isn't limited to level 50. It's just that the auto-level feature (should you choose to activate it) uses level 50 instead of 100, but you can still battle at 100. If that weren't the case, I might have a different mindset about this.
Why is that a good reason?! It doesn't matter that you like to do that - go get a calculator and figure it out on your own. Why do people need to establish an entirely different metagame, write analyses, and change the way that Smogon has worked for generations for your convenience.
Again, this poll is about what Smogon should use as their standard, not what makes building your wifi team easier.
If the reasoning for why you want it to change to level 50 is anything OTHER than "to make the competitive landscape more competitive," then I think you're probably missing the point of this and Smogon as a whole.
as i mentioned, i got that from someone else on this VERY THREAD, not even sure if it is actually true or not. Also, how is it centralizing the meta-game other than by hurting a pokemon use for many other reason than JUST its incredible speed. If you are correct and only 2 pokemon really could abuse it and they probably would not, then it does not seem like that big of a deal to me, and changing it to level 50 does not seem to change much as people think but would help getting the Wi-fi battlers (of which almost everyone here was one at one point at least or they would have never come here in the first place) getting used to the Rules Smogon has in-place while allowing Smogon-gamers to have an easier time when they want to compete in official tourneys. Seems like a win-win situation.
Yeah, Slowbro can use it to, Crobat has roost, both laugh at a CC-locked Terrakion (also, if it could not beat Hippowdon, why would anyone want to keep the terrakion in anyway?)
I...I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore.
The point is that at level 50 it has a chance to be able to beat it. Why would they switch and lose all of their momentum if they have a 50% to 2HKO on the switch with SR?
Also, you know, the fact that Terrakion has counters is really irrelevant. The point of the Hippo argument is to show that the shift has an effect on the metagame, and that shift is boosting the damage across the boards.
The point is that at level 50 it has a chance to be able to beat it. Why would they switch and lose all of their momentum if they have a 50% to 2HKO on the switch with SR?
Also, you know, the fact that Terrakion has counters is really irrelevant. The point of the Hippo argument is to show that the shift has an effect on the metagame, and that shift is boosting the damage across the boards.
You keep avoiding the point, we're arguing that changing to level 50 causes everything to do more and that changes the game drastically, not 'Terrkaon has no counters lel'
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