Pokémon Greninja

[Fluffy Blue Bunny]

(please next time use normal sized text). I would definitely use Waterfall over U-turn though, you need a reliable strong move with good neutral coverage to do some damage, otherwise you are left with weak priority hits that can't do anything to Pokemon not weak to them and Hidden Power Fire, which again, only bothers Pokemon weak to it. Of course the decreased power output in comparison to the special set is a downer but the Pokemon that Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak are very important and common atm so it is worth it if your team has not enough checks for those Pokemon. Oh and lastly, i don't think that Shadow Sneak is a must on that set so you could probably slash Night Slash with it, in order to OHKO Starmie and 2HKO Latias, Latios, Celebi, and Jellicent.

Sorry about that. I've been having issues with Word since I updated my laptop and, for some reason, I couldn't copy and paste all of that info.

Anyways, I didn't include Night Slash since a Lonely nature leads to Greninja being outsped and swiftly KO'd by timid Lati@s Draco Meteor. Similarly, Starmie outspeeds with my set, but using Shadow Sneak allows Greninja to survive the newly nerfed Thunderbolt with ~20% to spare. Good points though. Ironically enough, I wouldn't want to keep this set in against Jellicent because a burn would destroy anything useful about this set.

 

[alexwolf]

Sorry about that. I've been having issues with Word since I updated my laptop and, for some reason, I couldn't copy and paste all of that info.

Anyways, I didn't include Night Slash since a Lonely nature leads to Greninja being outsped and swiftly KO'd by timid Lati@s Draco Meteor. Similarly, Starmie outspeeds with my set, but using Shadow Sneak allows Greninja to survive the newly nerfed Thunderbolt with ~20% to spare. Good points though. Ironically enough, I wouldn't want to keep this set in against Jellicent because a burn would destroy anything useful about this set.

Oh, i didn't see that you had a Lonely nature. A Lonely nature definitely works better with Shadow Sneak as it deals with the Pokemon that you would want to outspeed anyway (Starmie, Latios, Latias, Alakazam), but with Night Slash Hasty is the superior nature. About Jellicent, you don't hit it with Night Slash 1 on 1, you hit it as it switches in to check you.

 

[El Coqui]

Why am i still laughing that this Frog OHKO Multiscale D-Nite. Anyways on showdown i see the terrible combo of NinjaSlash all the time (being one who uses it myself). Not that these two cover each other to perfection like ZongAlge but they are a great offensive combo

alexwolf EDIT: Please add more substance to your post. Explain why you like the combo of Greninja and Aegislash or Greninja and Dragalge. Aside from covering each other's weaknesses, do they deal with each other's checks and counters?

 

[Schpoonman]

I find there is really no reason to use Dark Pulse on Greninja seeing that in provides no notable coverage at all for Greninja. Water/Grass/Ice/Fire is the best coverage available. The only things Greninja hits for SE damage are ghost and psychic types, most of which are covered by its standard moves. Out of the previous OUs, Celebi and Lati@s are hit harder by Ice Beam, Jellicent is hit harder by Grass Knot while Starmie is hit similarly hard by Grass Knot. Gardevoir, a previous NU psychic that is likely to see some usage in OU, is actually hit harder by Hydro Pump. Other ones including Alakazam, Espeon, Gengar, Jirachi, Metagross and Reuinclus.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 227-269 (90.07 - 106.74%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 208-246 (76.47 - 90.44%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 253-298 (96.56 - 113.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 208-246 (79.38 - 93.89%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The three frail ghost/psychics all have a chance to be OHKOed by Hydro Pump after just rocks, Dark Pulse is not needed in these cases.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 144-172 (35.64 - 42.57%) -- 91.55% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 199-235 (49.25 - 58.16%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 199-234 (58.35 - 68.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 185-218 (50.82 - 59.89%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 218-257 (72.18 - 85.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 227-269 (53.53 - 63.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Out of the three 'bulkier psychics', only SpDef Jirachi can survive 2 consecutive Hydro Pumps. SubCM Rachi and Tank Metagross has only a slim chance to avoid the 2HKO. Still, Dark Pulse hits not enough to make significant difference.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

SpDef Jirachi actually has a decent chance to survive two Dark Pulses if running protect and can either wish stall or switch out to something taking its hits better thanks to reduced coverage when using Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse usually does not worth the moveslot on Greninja.

When talking about new ghost/psychics, Delphox and Malamar are hit harder by H-pump while Ice Beam hits Gourgeist and Trevenant harder. Dark Pulse only hits Aegislash and Meowstic harder. I really don't expect Meowstic receiving much usage in OU as well as being unable to take Hydro Pump too well. Aegislash is a significant threat but isn't taking Hydro Pumps too well unless running specially defensive sets.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 140-165 (43.2 - 50.92%) -- 62.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Other stuffs Dark Pulse hit harder includes Rotom-W and Sap Sipper Azumarill lol. Dark Pulse provides no notable benefit to Greninja's offensive coverage. It should not be used unless your team is super super weak to Aegislash and friends and is usually an inferior option for Greninja.

You seem to have forgotten that Greninja gets STAB on Dark Pulse and that Jirachi is now his super effectively by Dark Pulse.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 330-393 (130.95 - 155.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 304-359 (111.76 - 131.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 369-437 (140.83 - 166.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 304-359 (116.03 - 137.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, Dark Pulse OHKOs all these Pokemon 100% of the time, without hazards.

On to the rest of the calcs.
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO (I'd say having an extremely high chance to 2HKO WITHOUT HAZARDS, nice fudging of the data on your part, makes up for the supposed "reduced" coverage as well forcing Jirachi immediately on the defensive instead of letting it paralyze and KO you instead of beating it)
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 289-343 (71.53 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 289-343 (84.75 - 100.58%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 268-320 (73.62 - 87.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 315-374 (104.3 - 123.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 330-393 (77.83 - 92.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Let's review: Hydro Pump has quite a bit of merit as Greninja's strongest neutral move. But to discount Dark Pulse is silly. To disguise the numbers like you did (not even listing Dark Pulse calcs, using hazards with some calcs but not others and not talk about what differences it makes) is disingenuous and sneaky at best. Explore all the options, thoroughly, before you jump to such a bold conclusion.

 

[C AllStar]

What I mean is that Dark Pulse has little more to offer than its Hydro Pump + Ice Beam + Grass Knot. I am perfectly aware that Jirachi is now weak to Dark Pulse, but even STAB Dark Pulse cannot 2HKO SpDef Jirachi reliably without hazards, especially when coupled with protect. Other calcs you made doesn't matter since Hydro Pump gets practically the same OHKO/2HKOes that Dark Pulse does. Some of my calcs does not use hazards because having hazards does not make a difference. Dark Pulse has it perks of being perfectly accurate and has a chance to flinch, but its low base power, limited coverage and little OHKO/2HKO differences with Hydro Pump makes it a niche option for Greninja.

 

[alexwolf]

Don't forget that Dark Pulse is Greninja's strongest option against Rotom-W. Thanks to most defensive Rotom-W running max Defense atm to better deal with Excadrill and Talonflame, Dark Pulse is an almost guaranteed 2HKO after SR: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.73 - 52.96%) -- 92.58% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Punchshroom]

You seem to have forgotten that Greninja gets STAB on Dark Pulse and that Jirachi is now his super effectively by Dark Pulse.

You also seem to have forgotten that Greninja gets STAB on everything.

In any case, Allstar does have a point. While Dark Pulse still has its uses, it provides less coverage overall compared to Greninja's other moves, while not offering much defensive benefit in return; for example, using Grass Knot can save Greninja from Electric and Grass attacks & even powder moves, Extrasensory allows Greninja to resist Fighting moves and beat down stuff like Tentacruel and Mega-Venusaur while still hitting Gengar for notable damage, and Hidden Power Fire wrecks things like Ferrothorn and Scizor while also hitting the Steel-types you listed in the calcs for a 2HKO at worst (not OHKOing Metagross is quite a bummer, but you can resist its Steel STAB at least). As for the Psychic-types, Protean U-turn can lay the hurt on them even without investment due to their poor physical defense (except Reuniclus, which Dark Pulse fails to OHKO anyway).

The fact that Greninja has STAB on anything it has means it doesn't really have to use its given STAB, since it can hit damn near anything it can / wants. Dark Pulse indeed does have its merits, but it isn't very essential to Greninja at all imo.

Don't forget that Dark Pulse is Greninja's strongest option against Rotom-W. Thanks to most defensive Rotom-W running max Defense atm to better deal with Excadrill and Talonflame, Dark Pulse is an almost guaranteed 2HKO after SR: 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.73 - 52.96%) -- 92.58% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Actually by that extension, anything of neutral 80 base power can already hit Rotom-W for that same amount of damage, like say....Extrasensory.

 

[Schpoonman]

You're right. I suppose my point was to underline that Hydro Pump isn't all-but-required like it on, say, LO Starmie, and I didn't do a good job of highlighting that. But saying that any move is entirely outclassed on Greninja is just not accurate* BECAUSE he has STAB on everything and he can be tailored to take care of what your team needs without any drawback (unlike running Iron Tail on Salamence to deal with Fairies).

*: Assuming we're talking about moves with actual competitive merit, we all know Lick is shitty, etc.

 

[flUddOS]

I apologize if this has already been answered, we know he is extremely fast, how much faster is he than the next fastest threat to him.

Basically, I'm wanting to figure out how many of the 252 speed IV's are unnecessary, if any?

He goes to 377

I see
Terrakion at 346 (Extrasensory)
Keldeo at 346 (Extrasensory)
Alakazam at 372 (Dark Pulse)
Infernape at 346 (Hydro Pump, Extrasensory)
Jolteon at 394 (yikes)

Basically, Timid/244 Spd will outspeed base 120s. I'd say that's the best place to let up, unless you're concerned about the speed tie with other Greninjas.

 

[Banryu]

Having fought a few physical Greninja, I feel fairly confident in saying that it's pretty bad. Physical moves coming off of base 95 Atk might not be so bad if it actually got any reasonably strong ones. As it stands, the strongest it gets are, what-- Waterfall? Night Slash? Pretty damn underwhelming, and I hardly found it threatening at all.

Special Sweeper or Lead (with Spikes/Taunt) Greninja seems like the way to go to me.

You also seem to have forgotten that Greninja gets STAB on everything.

This is accurate LOL. My bad.

Basically, Timid/244 Spd will outspeed base 120s. I'd say that's the best place to let up, unless you're concerned about the speed tie with other Greninjas.

Seems unnecessary. Most can't do much to each other outside catching the other on a SE Protean type.

 

[Shurtugal]

For the item slashes, I'd mention Assault Vest, Expert Belt, and Mental Herb are viable item choices. Mental Herb should get an AC because Sticky Web is annoying an instantly shuts down Greninja, but if you wait until the lategame with Greninja, you can bypass Sticky Web and probably outspeed the opposition's last Pokemon! Assault Vest gets a nice mention because it's using four moves and no status attacks and could be used to let it live Thunderbolt from Genesect, or Draco Meteor from Scarf Latios, etc. Expert Belt gets a final mention for working amazingly with Protean.

 

[radica]

I find there is really no reason to use Dark Pulse on Greninja seeing that in provides no notable coverage at all for Greninja. Water/Grass/Ice/Fire is the best coverage available. The only things Greninja hits for SE damage are ghost and psychic types, most of which are covered by its standard moves. Out of the previous OUs, Celebi and Lati@s are hit harder by Ice Beam, Jellicent is hit harder by Grass Knot while Starmie is hit similarly hard by Grass Knot. Gardevoir, a previous NU psychic that is likely to see some usage in OU, is actually hit harder by Hydro Pump. Other ones including Alakazam, Espeon, Gengar, Jirachi, Metagross and Reuinclus.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 227-269 (90.07 - 106.74%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 208-246 (76.47 - 90.44%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 253-298 (96.56 - 113.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 208-246 (79.38 - 93.89%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The three frail ghost/psychics all have a chance to be OHKOed by Hydro Pump after just rocks, Dark Pulse is not needed in these cases.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 144-172 (35.64 - 42.57%) -- 91.55% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 199-235 (49.25 - 58.16%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 199-234 (58.35 - 68.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 185-218 (50.82 - 59.89%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 218-257 (72.18 - 85.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 227-269 (53.53 - 63.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Out of the three 'bulkier psychics', only SpDef Jirachi can survive 2 consecutive Hydro Pumps. SubCM Rachi and Tank Metagross has only a slim chance to avoid the 2HKO. Still, Dark Pulse hits not enough to make significant difference.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 213-252 (52.72 - 62.37%) -- 98.44% chance to 2HKO

SpDef Jirachi actually has a decent chance to survive two Dark Pulses if running protect and can either wish stall or switch out to something taking its hits better thanks to reduced coverage when using Dark Pulse. Dark Pulse usually does not worth the moveslot on Greninja.

When talking about new ghost/psychics, Delphox and Malamar are hit harder by H-pump while Ice Beam hits Gourgeist and Trevenant harder. Dark Pulse only hits Aegislash and Meowstic harder. I really don't expect Meowstic receiving much usage in OU as well as being unable to take Hydro Pump too well. Aegislash is a significant threat but isn't taking Hydro Pumps too well unless running specially defensive sets.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 140-165 (43.2 - 50.92%) -- 62.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Other stuffs Dark Pulse hit harder includes Rotom-W and Sap Sipper Azumarill lol. Dark Pulse provides no notable benefit to Greninja's offensive coverage. It should not be used unless your team is super super weak to Aegislash and friends and is usually an inferior option for Greninja.

Aegislash. Seriously I see the thing in over half my battles. It's silly not to carry Dark moves just for it.

 

[Shurtugal]

Agislash and Jelliscent

Jellicent is going to get hit hard from 100 base power Grass Knot, but yeah I agree Dark Pulse has it's uses, especially since there are lots of ghosts like Gengar and Aegislash roaming about and steel losts its resistance so you don't have to worry about anything really tanking it either. Aegislash is probably the biggest thing you're hitting since that thing is arceusdamn everywhere.

 

[Thorhammer]

White Herb sure is an interesting idea. I don't think Greninja is the best Pokemon for it, but if you have a Pokemon who really needs Sticky Web to not be up, and it becomes common enough that the odds are in favor of that, and the Pokemon is powerful enough to sweep on its first switch-in, it could have uses. Extremely situational, but worth remembering.

 

[Todd]

I've been playing around a little, and I find Venusaur makes a really good battle buddy with Greninja. The two types of pokemon Greninja has struggled against most in my experience are the water and fairy types, both of which Venusaur resists and covers with grass and poison STAB. Venusaur also has the bulk to switch in on moves meant for Greninja, and with a well placed sleep powder, can provide another chance for Greninja to switch back in scot-free. Gets even better the few times I've tried it with Mega Venusaur.

I've also found Heliolisk to be pretty decent, as he takes down water types pretty easily, and forms a very fast volt-turn core (or turn-turn if you decide to run u-turn on heliolisk) with Greninja. They're shared initial weaknesses and relative frailty make them not as great defensively together as Saur and Ninja, but they're pretty good offensively. The times I have gotten past opposing players mach punchers and grass types (if they had them) and still had these two in reserve, they've destroyed everything.

Excited for Celebi to be released, it will be an incredible partner to Greninja.

 

[Pac-man9]

Aegislash. Seriously I see the thing in over half my battles. It's silly not to carry Dark moves just for it.

I'm pretty sure it isn't going to kill defensive variants of aegislash. And after it hits, it is swiftly punished by one sacred sword (especially since all of Greninja's sets seem to lower defense.)
A defensive swords dance aegi wrecks Greninja. But who uses that kind of Aegislash anyway lol. Point still stands, he won't be killing aegi anytime soon.

 

[Bravadorado]

I've been playing around a little, and I find Venusaur makes a really good battle buddy with Greninja. The two types of pokemon Greninja has struggled against most in my experience are the water and fairy types, both of which Venusaur resists and covers with grass and poison STAB. Venusaur also has the bulk to switch in on moves meant for Greninja, and with a well placed sleep powder, can provide another chance for Greninja to switch back in scot-free. Gets even better the few times I've tried it with Mega Venusaur.

I've also found Heliolisk to be pretty decent, as he takes down water types pretty easily, and forms a very fast volt-turn core (or turn-turn if you decide to run u-turn on heliolisk) with Greninja. They're shared initial weaknesses and relative frailty make them not as great defensively together as Saur and Ninja, but they're pretty good offensively. The times I have gotten past opposing players mach punchers and grass types (if they had them) and still had these two in reserve, they've destroyed everything.

Excited for Celebi to be released, it will be an incredible partner to Greninja.

How about Crobat? Breaks through stall teams and subs, good defenses and recovery, access to U-turn, and also resists grass/fairy and deals SE damage to them. I'm personally probably going to run them together with a voltturn core with Galvantula. Throw in Tyrantrum and Yzard who can use the speed (Sticky web) and another bulky mon and I think that's a solid team.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Honestly White Herb and Assault Vest are garbage options for Greninja and I hope they aren't even mentioned in the OP.

Why would you use a White Herb when in 90% of battles its going to be useless? Sticky Web is learned by exactly two not bad Pokemon, and quite frankly its not that big of a problem in most matches. If you switch out even once then you just wasted your entire item slot because its just going to lower your speed again anyway. That means its only chance would be to sweep and you'd just lose out on a lot of power. I would never a White Herb on Greninja as a result (especially if you are using U-turn), and if I was leaving Greninja only to clean (not a good idea) I would use something that was just immune to Sticky Web.

Why would you use an Assault Vest when Greninja is very frail? Most Pokemon that make use of the item are tanks, and Greninja is anything except a tank. Just because it can survive those moves doesn't really mean it will come into play very often. Also, with its constantly changing type its not really taking advantage of a defensively sound typing. It also means surviving specific moves could just be done By switching to the appropriate type. Latios and Genesect also don't exist yet and Scarf Latios is going to be really bad this gen anyway. The entire point of an Assault Vest is to take hits better, and Greninja shouldn't be taking hits, and it will only come into play if the opponent is a faster special attacker (rare, plus some like Jolteon dgaf and still OHKOs you). Its probably one of the worst all-out attackers to give an Assault Vest.

Greninja honestly just needs something like a Life Orb in my experiences (which so far have been good) because really 103 base special attack isn't all that amazing. Expert Belt is OK because of its coverage but Life Orb is far and away the best choice for Greninja. The recoil isn't that bad anyway since its not taking hits anyway. Overall though I would very rarely consider an item that will do nothing for me more than 80% of the time (I'd rather use a type resist berry than a White Herb, that's how bad I think it is)

 

[Jean Kirschtein]

Not sure if this is the right spot for it because I'm literally brand new here - I've started EV training in Emerald since August or so, and have been IV breeding in X/Y since a week or so after it came out after finding out about awesome things like the Friend Safari and Destiny Knot. Anyways, to the reason I'm here - I have a 4IV perfect (HP, Defense, Sp.Def, Speed) Protean Greninja w/ Modest (lol, I've had a couple people trash me on using Modest, but I love the +SpA and -Atk since I have all Special on him anyways) Currently, he has a moveset of Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Ice Beam/Hydro Pump. This is basically for clean up and sweep of a wide variety, since I mostly use him for Battle Maison right now. I came to ask though, since he has an Electric Hidden Power, should I use that over Grass Knot, and maybe Scald over Hydro Pump? Or should I just totally redo the moveset? Open to really any suggestions, thanks for dealing with a complete newb here, lol.

 

[BuddhaSmite]

I haven't seen a lot of people suggest a modest nature for the special attacking Greninja. What speed tier should he be aiming for? Is a positive speed nature absolutely necessary, or is taking the extra power just not worth it?

 

[farranpoison]

Greninja should always run Timid. Its defenses are like wet paper and if something outspeeds it, it's most likely biting the dust. A higher speed means Protean works more in your favor. For example, if you're faster than an Electric Type (barring stuff like Jolteon) you can use Spikes to become ground, and then do some other protean shenanigans from there.

 

[BuddhaSmite]

Greninja should always run Timid. Its defenses are like wet paper and if something outspeeds it, it's most likely biting the dust. A higher speed means Protean works more in your favor. For example, if you're faster than an Electric Type (barring stuff like Jolteon) you can use Spikes to become ground, and then do some other protean shenanigans from there.

Makes perfect sense. I have one that's running naïve because I like to incorporate U-Turn.
I guess my question was just more wondering about what specific threats that Greninja is able to outspeed with timid vs a non speed boosting nature. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Scepticallistic]

Not sure if this is the right spot for it because I'm literally brand new here - I've started EV training in Emerald since August or so, and have been IV breeding in X/Y since a week or so after it came out after finding out about awesome things like the Friend Safari and Destiny Knot. Anyways, to the reason I'm here - I have a 4IV perfect (HP, Defense, Sp.Def, Speed) Protean Greninja w/ Modest (lol, I've had a couple people trash me on using Modest, but I love the +SpA and -Atk since I have all Special on him anyways) Currently, he has a moveset of Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Ice Beam/Hydro Pump. This is basically for clean up and sweep of a wide variety, since I mostly use him for Battle Maison right now. I came to ask though, since he has an Electric Hidden Power, should I use that over Grass Knot, and maybe Scald over Hydro Pump? Or should I just totally redo the moveset? Open to really any suggestions, thanks for dealing with a complete newb here, lol.

I cannot help you very much in terms of your Greninja advice, but I can say the Simple Question/Simple Answer threads can help you out with things like this! In Uncharted Territory, the individual Pokemon threads like this one are more for discussion of its performance in the metagame competitively along with strategies. It's generally not for in-game questions.

Makes perfect sense. I have one that's running naïve because I like to incorporate U-Turn.
I guess my question was just more wondering about what specific threats that Greninja is able to outspeed with timid vs a non speed boosting nature. Thanks for the reply!

With a non-speed boosting nature, Greninja hits 343 Speed. This means that it will fail to outspeed max speed Pokemon at 108 base speed, such as Infernape, Keldeo, Galvantula, Terrakion... There are many important threats that Greninja can normally outspeed reliably, and like mentioned above, it can also swipe the upper hand by changing into an advantageous type through Protean. I'm pretty sure you'd want to be able to outspeed normal Gengar, normal Alakazam, Starmie, etc. Of course, if for some reason you do not wish to have this speed advantage, I haven't run calculations to determine if Modest somehow nets it more KOs than it would normally have been unable to get with a neutral sp. attack nature.

 

[Jean mi]

I don't know if it has been suggested yet but I tried a banded greninja set to abuse u-turn and priority moves and it works pretty well. Here it is :

Greninja Choice Band
Trait : Protean
Nature : Adamant
EVs : 252 Att, 252 Spe, 4 HP (or whatever)
Water Shuriken
Shadow Sneak
U-turn
Return

Having STAB in 2 priority moves in Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak makes it a great revenge killer. Shadow Sneak can be used to turn into a ghost type to take anything dark is weak too, particularly fighting. U-turn to deal lots of damage while keeping offensive momentum and return because it's a strong physical move with no drawback (and gets STAB obviously).

 

[VCrowe]

How viable could a more dedicated mixed set be?

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty
EV's: 100 Atk, 116 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- U Turn
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- HP Fire/HP Ghost

If someone could do damage calculations for me, that would be great. I can't do them on my phone :/