Can you be a bit more specific as to how you tested this? Does Kangaskhan learn Seismic Toss as an egg move now?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter ΩDonut
- Start date
Parental Bond can be Skill Swapped…? What happens to regular attacks if the Parental Bond user isn’t Mega Kangashkan? Still only 1.5× on the second hit?
Parental Bond works the same no matter who has it.
Also, I've tested Vivillon's new move "Powder". It goes away at the end of the turn (even if the opponent is faster, so it's not like Destiny Bond) and it always deals 25% +1 damage (so if the target has 100 HP, it would deal 26 damage) if the opponent uses a Fire move. The Fire move is cancelled in the process.
Edit: Another Parental Bond test: it doesn't have any effect with multi-hit moves. They're still 2-5 hits (or just 2 in some cases).
Also, I've tested Vivillon's new move "Powder". It goes away at the end of the turn (even if the opponent is faster, so it's not like Destiny Bond) and it always deals 25% +1 damage (so if the target has 100 HP, it would deal 26 damage) if the opponent uses a Fire move. The Fire move is cancelled in the process.
Edit: Another Parental Bond test: it doesn't have any effect with multi-hit moves. They're still 2-5 hits (or just 2 in some cases).
Last edited:
Is this also the case for moves like Noble Roar and Parting Shot?
Does Competitive also activate twice in these situations?
Have any of the multipliers for damage changed at all like stab? Because I remember the total multiply for damage you could do was a 4x super effective, critical sniper stab that totaled to somewhere around 600x damage. But we should check multipliers incase they have been changed.
I'm not able to test but I would assume so.
grass pelt provides a 50% boost to defense when grassy terrain is up.
i used a lv 59 florges with 104 attack, and a grass pelt gogoat with 70 defense. with grassy terrain up, i got the following damage values when attacking with facade:
35
33
33
35
33
35
33
32
32
34
33
32
30
a 50% defense boost would give a damage range of 30-36, which these values fit pretty snugly into, though i didn't get a 36 damage roll. other tidbits:
-grass pelt's defense boost is passive, so if grassy terrain runs out while the grass pelt mon is on the field, the defense boost disappears too. the boost also remains if you switch out and switch back in.
-grass pelt does not increase health regeneration from grassy terrain.
-synthesis's healing is not boosted by either grassy terrain or grass pelt.
-grass pelt does not boost special defense. obvious from the ability's description, but i figured i'd give it a shot.
i used a lv 59 florges with 104 attack, and a grass pelt gogoat with 70 defense. with grassy terrain up, i got the following damage values when attacking with facade:
35
33
33
35
33
35
33
32
32
34
33
32
30
a 50% defense boost would give a damage range of 30-36, which these values fit pretty snugly into, though i didn't get a 36 damage roll. other tidbits:
-grass pelt's defense boost is passive, so if grassy terrain runs out while the grass pelt mon is on the field, the defense boost disappears too. the boost also remains if you switch out and switch back in.
-grass pelt does not increase health regeneration from grassy terrain.
-synthesis's healing is not boosted by either grassy terrain or grass pelt.
-grass pelt does not boost special defense. obvious from the ability's description, but i figured i'd give it a shot.
It seems that as far as abilities go, they do not take into account accuracy, only move selection. For the items to work, they need to hit, but I will do a quick test:
I used the same Electivire, except gave it Flash just because that's the only move I had on hand. I gave my Talonflame the Cell Battery
Electivire v. Ampharos:
Electivire fully reduces Ampharos's Accuracy through Flash (6 stages, I believe)
After, Ampharos uses Thunderbolt, Motor Drive activates before the animation. Just to be sure, it's used 4 more times, same thing. Absorb abilities do not depend on accuracy.
Next, I switch in my Talonflame with the Cell Battery. First hit, Thunderbolt misses, Cell Battery does not activate. Absorb->Stat hold items require accuracy.
Second hit, Thunderbolt lands, kills Talonflame, without the Cell Battery activating. Absorb->Stat hold items require attacks to hit, and activate after damage calculation (just to be sure I used it on an Aggron that did not die to Thunderbolt, and the Battery activated after the damage). So, these items do not absorb, they just give added effects.
While I myself don't believe it would be so, a question could still lie in if these items even slightly reduce the damage taken from these type attacks. My testing partner had to leave so I can't do this right now (conveniently), so I'll leave it for now. EDIT: He's back, I will now test this. Upcoming post I guess, it's for a different point?
The strange thing about this is that, as said, Sap Sipper still activates on Grass types if a powder move is used against them. So yes, as you said, Abilities take precedent over types.
Just to reiterate that observation Priority is in the order, Abilities > Type/Other Immunities > Item Activation. I say Type/Other Immunities because the Item activations, from my research, require hits, so other immunities, namely, Ability immunities like the aspect of Motor Drive ACTUALLY not having Electric type attacks hit, will prevent these items from activating at all, since they only do so after damage calculation. Extrapolating, I can assume it is the same for all these types of items (Absorb Bulb, Snowball, Luminous Moss, Weakness Policy, etc.).
Last edited:
Alrighty, here's for a test that's probably meaningless! But tests are for testing, and someone's gotta do it!
This test is to see if the hold items, as they require damage calculation, affect the multiplier before they activate (as in, does the Cell Battery/Absorb Bulb/Luminious Moss/etc. reduce the damage taken from attacks of the listed type).
This test is not with the Cell Battery this time, but rather with the Luminous Moss. They should work the same, just with different types. Plus, Water attacks are easier to regulate for the resources I have. Plus the three Pokemon I use are convenient for me.
For this I use a Talonflame, Tyrantrum, and Trevenant (What a coincidence, all T's!), for super-effective, normal, not-very-effective.
Opponent is a Floatzel with Aqua Jet
Anyway basically what happened was; for the no items, I just let him hit me three times in a row, and recorded the values. In the case of Talonflame, I just used Roost each round.
For the Luminous Moss, I tediously forfeited and restarted a battle three times with each Pokemon, because I only had one Moss to use.
THERE WAS AN ISSUE I HAD WITH MY TEST: Luminous Moss raises SpD after getting hit, I used Aqua Jet, it's Physical, obviously, there could be a SpD modifier that isn't there for Def that I did not test, but here are the results for the test on behalf of Defense, and overall weakening of that type (I'm sure you just as much as me know how this played out):
Recordings:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 147 -> 81
2: 147 -> 91
3: 147 -> 85
TYRANTRUM:
1: 160 -> 138
2: 138 -> 116
3: 116 -> 92
TREVENANT:
1: 153 -> 137
2: 137 -> 122
3: 122 -> 107
LUMINOUS MOSS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 147 -> 81
2: 147 -> 87
3: 147 -> 87
TYRANTRUM:
1: 160 -> 139
2: 160 -> 139
3: 160 -> 136
TREVENANT:
1: 153 -> 128
2: 153 -> 137
3: 153 -> 136
As you can see, it was fairly consistent. A few outliers here and there but nothing that can't be accounted for over numerous samples, and is acceptable with the RNG.
By now we all know what the conclusion is, but I did calculations anyway.
HP lost:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 66
2: 56
3: 62
TYRANTRUM:
1: 22
2: 22
3: 24
TREVENANT:
1: 16
2: 15
3: 15
LUMINOUS MOSS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 66
2: 60
3: 60
TYRANTRUM:
1: 21
2: 21
3: 24
TREVENANT:
1: 25
2: 16
3: 17
Averages:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
61.33
TYRANTRUM:
22.66
TREVENANT:
15.33
LUMINOUS MOSS
TALONFLAME:
62
TYRANTRUM:
22
TREVENANT:
19.33
So uh, yeah. Trevenant seemed to have some trouble there at the end for some reason, but the sample is too small to draw large conclusions based off of that. Now if the Moss gave it numbers that were half as high, then, well, there ya go. But at any rate, like I said, before, it could have individual specific stat buffs, but it is not type-damage reduction.
Type-damage-to-stat conversion items do not change the damage multiplier for any--super-effective, normal, not-very-effective--damage types. Through this test, we can only conclude this is so on behalf of reduction of damage from moves of the TYPE listed on the item. This is not to say that these items do not have hidden stat buffs before used (for example, as Luminous Moss increases SpD when consumed, it may slightly raise SpD before consumption), though it is still unlikely.
And that's what I get for 20/20 hindsight in thinking "oh hey, why not use Special moves with it?"
But alas, I did not. And my testing partner did not want to go through another long test again, so that is for another time.
My apologies for the long post, I can't figure if there are spoiler tags on this site! I would love to tag the data so it doesn't take up too much space! Sorry!
This test is to see if the hold items, as they require damage calculation, affect the multiplier before they activate (as in, does the Cell Battery/Absorb Bulb/Luminious Moss/etc. reduce the damage taken from attacks of the listed type).
This test is not with the Cell Battery this time, but rather with the Luminous Moss. They should work the same, just with different types. Plus, Water attacks are easier to regulate for the resources I have. Plus the three Pokemon I use are convenient for me.
For this I use a Talonflame, Tyrantrum, and Trevenant (What a coincidence, all T's!), for super-effective, normal, not-very-effective.
Opponent is a Floatzel with Aqua Jet
Anyway basically what happened was; for the no items, I just let him hit me three times in a row, and recorded the values. In the case of Talonflame, I just used Roost each round.
For the Luminous Moss, I tediously forfeited and restarted a battle three times with each Pokemon, because I only had one Moss to use.
THERE WAS AN ISSUE I HAD WITH MY TEST: Luminous Moss raises SpD after getting hit, I used Aqua Jet, it's Physical, obviously, there could be a SpD modifier that isn't there for Def that I did not test, but here are the results for the test on behalf of Defense, and overall weakening of that type (I'm sure you just as much as me know how this played out):
Recordings:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 147 -> 81
2: 147 -> 91
3: 147 -> 85
TYRANTRUM:
1: 160 -> 138
2: 138 -> 116
3: 116 -> 92
TREVENANT:
1: 153 -> 137
2: 137 -> 122
3: 122 -> 107
LUMINOUS MOSS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 147 -> 81
2: 147 -> 87
3: 147 -> 87
TYRANTRUM:
1: 160 -> 139
2: 160 -> 139
3: 160 -> 136
TREVENANT:
1: 153 -> 128
2: 153 -> 137
3: 153 -> 136
As you can see, it was fairly consistent. A few outliers here and there but nothing that can't be accounted for over numerous samples, and is acceptable with the RNG.
By now we all know what the conclusion is, but I did calculations anyway.
HP lost:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 66
2: 56
3: 62
TYRANTRUM:
1: 22
2: 22
3: 24
TREVENANT:
1: 16
2: 15
3: 15
LUMINOUS MOSS:
TALONFLAME:
1: 66
2: 60
3: 60
TYRANTRUM:
1: 21
2: 21
3: 24
TREVENANT:
1: 25
2: 16
3: 17
Averages:
NO ITEMS:
TALONFLAME:
61.33
TYRANTRUM:
22.66
TREVENANT:
15.33
LUMINOUS MOSS
TALONFLAME:
62
TYRANTRUM:
22
TREVENANT:
19.33
So uh, yeah. Trevenant seemed to have some trouble there at the end for some reason, but the sample is too small to draw large conclusions based off of that. Now if the Moss gave it numbers that were half as high, then, well, there ya go. But at any rate, like I said, before, it could have individual specific stat buffs, but it is not type-damage reduction.
Type-damage-to-stat conversion items do not change the damage multiplier for any--super-effective, normal, not-very-effective--damage types. Through this test, we can only conclude this is so on behalf of reduction of damage from moves of the TYPE listed on the item. This is not to say that these items do not have hidden stat buffs before used (for example, as Luminous Moss increases SpD when consumed, it may slightly raise SpD before consumption), though it is still unlikely.
And that's what I get for 20/20 hindsight in thinking "oh hey, why not use Special moves with it?"
But alas, I did not. And my testing partner did not want to go through another long test again, so that is for another time.
My apologies for the long post, I can't figure if there are spoiler tags on this site! I would love to tag the data so it doesn't take up too much space! Sorry!
I tested Flower Veil 2 weeks ago. Grass type pokemon with Flower Veil can prevent stat lowering itself, seems like Clear Body.
But pokemon with Healer seems that it still can't cure itself. please report it.
Tested Tough Claws to narrow down the mod.
Tough Claws looks like a 1.33x mulitiplier (0x1547) aka a 33% boost exactly.
Tested by comparing max/min rolls like I did here.
1.33x Mod
{ 03:34 }<CDXCIV> Charizard-Mega-X's Dragon Claw vs Doublade (32 - 38 HP) Damage: 19.28% - 22.89%
{ 03:34 }<CDXCIV> Damage Numbers: 32 32 33 33 33 33 34 34 35 35 36 36 36 36 37 38
1.333x / (4/3) Mod
{ 03:33 }<CDXCIV> Charizard-Mega-X's Dragon Claw vs Doublade (33 - 39 HP) Damage: 19.88% - 23.49%
{ 03:33 }<CDXCIV> Damage Numbers: 33 33 33 33 34 34 35 35 36 36 36 36 37 37 38 39
Many Dragon Claw later, Mega Charizard X hit Doublade for 32 damage.
- EDIT - This also confirms Tough Claws as a Base Power modifier, not a stat or final modifier. If it were either of those 32 and 34 would be impossibilities and I got both of those in my test.
Tough Claws looks like a 1.33x mulitiplier (0x1547) aka a 33% boost exactly.
Tested by comparing max/min rolls like I did here.
1.33x Mod
{ 03:34 }<CDXCIV> Charizard-Mega-X's Dragon Claw vs Doublade (32 - 38 HP) Damage: 19.28% - 22.89%
{ 03:34 }<CDXCIV> Damage Numbers: 32 32 33 33 33 33 34 34 35 35 36 36 36 36 37 38
1.333x / (4/3) Mod
{ 03:33 }<CDXCIV> Charizard-Mega-X's Dragon Claw vs Doublade (33 - 39 HP) Damage: 19.88% - 23.49%
{ 03:33 }<CDXCIV> Damage Numbers: 33 33 33 33 34 34 35 35 36 36 36 36 37 37 38 39
Many Dragon Claw later, Mega Charizard X hit Doublade for 32 damage.
- EDIT - This also confirms Tough Claws as a Base Power modifier, not a stat or final modifier. If it were either of those 32 and 34 would be impossibilities and I got both of those in my test.
Last edited:
Speaking of priorities, has anyone tested the priority of mega evolution VS switching? E.g: if I MEvo Gengar and the opponent switches on the same turn, will they be trapped or not?
Switching is first, but that doesn't matter. Even if the MEvo happened first, Shadow Tag wouldn't prevent that switch. Shadow Tag never prevents switching; it just prevents you choosing to switch.
As was the case with the Focus Sash and Colbur Berry, Knock Off triggers the item before it can suppress it.
In addition, Knock Off's new power-up mechanic (where it gets a 1.5x boost if it hits an enemy with an item) does not work on Pokémon holding Mega Stones, but it DOES work on Pokémon with Sticky Hold.
Then I guess it won't work on Giratina's Griseous Orb and Arceus's Plates
Assuming you mean Protean Keckleon.
I got curious whether the Huge Power + Foul Play mechanic from last gen was the same on the eve of Foul Play + Huge Power Mawhile from Pokebank. V4Victini and I started a wifi battle with my Klefki using Foul Play on his Togetic.
First Hit: 7 Damage
Second Hit: 6 Damage
Third Hit: 6 Damage
Fourth Hit: 7 Damage
Fifth Hit: 6 Damage
After 5 uses of getting identical damage, I skill swapped Huge Power onto Klefki using a reuniclus and a Marill and saw how much it did:
First Hit: 13 Damage
Second Hit: 13 Damage
Third Hit: 12 Damage
So yes, Huge Power will still double your opponent's attack when you have it and use Foul Play. Remember to breed specially oriented Pokemon with low Attack IVs !_!
First Hit: 7 Damage
Second Hit: 6 Damage
Third Hit: 6 Damage
Fourth Hit: 7 Damage
Fifth Hit: 6 Damage
After 5 uses of getting identical damage, I skill swapped Huge Power onto Klefki using a reuniclus and a Marill and saw how much it did:
First Hit: 13 Damage
Second Hit: 13 Damage
Third Hit: 12 Damage
So yes, Huge Power will still double your opponent's attack when you have it and use Foul Play. Remember to breed specially oriented Pokemon with low Attack IVs !_!
Well, we can't test that yet; it might get the boost on Arceus since Multitype is an ability like Sticky Hold, but not on Giratina since that's a Pokémon-Item relationship like with the Mega Stones.
