Dusclops might be able to win, and Keldeo can win more reliably than Terrakion if you switch in on PuP (altho he can't take return like Terrak can). Also, rocky helmet Garchomp can win or at least seriously cripple it if it switches in on anything but earthquake.
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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If, by "win", you mean able to KO Megakahn without switches on either side, then yes I think Sableye is the only one that can do that. As you showed, even Terrakion can't win 100% of the time, even at full HP.
However if you're looking at what can take any move and "win" by crippling Mega Kangaskahn, here's the list of Ghost-types I made earlier (someone else requested I re-post this anyway):
Spiritomb and Dusclops can take anything Kanga can throw (I'd always always pick Spiritomb thanks to its Leftovers and Sucker Punch access). Cofagrigus can also take anything by virtue of Mummy removing Megakahn's ability.
Of course as stated many times, WoW isn't really a "win" since Megakahn can force even Sableye into a 50/50 guessing game... use WoW and potentially be screwed over by a Talonflame/Heatran/Chandelure/etc switch, or go for Recover and eat another hit that outpaces Recover+Lefties?
Mega Kanga is almost always spamming PuP, unless there are Ghost-type or Rocky Helmet Pokemon in the opposing team. If Mega Kangaskhan is not at +2, it can just 2HKO Umbreon while Umbreon fails to OHKO back. Umbreon is not even a check, as it can't in any way switch into Mega Kangakshan, at least against its most spammed moves.
Also, people use the search function before posting possible checks/counters, as most of them have already been mentioned in the last pages.
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Mega Banette can force Kang to switch out with Prankster Destiny Bond, and WoW the switch-in. Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn can also just be sacc'd for the KO. Once his rocks are up he's not super-great anyway. It does seem that tricksy Ghost types are best answer, generally. Kangs that do not carry Crunch cannot even hit Shedinja, for example, and he can just spread status and laugh his way to the bank. Of course, he has the honour of being the only pokemon in the game that is OHKO'd by stealth rock...
Bannette can't come in on anything aside from Return/PuP (and even then you need to factor in Scrappy). It also doesn't have Prankster on the turn it Mega Evolves, so it will die almost 90% certain. Shedinja gets OHKO'd by Crunch, the Sash doesn't even help against Kangaskhan. Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn is a check but even then Mega Kangaskhan could run Fire Blast.
So what are the best teammates for the fire punch variant? I would imagine something that can kill ghosts?
Quick question to the players more skilled than I, what might you have done in my opponent's shoes?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68793706
I say he should have preserved his rocky helm Garchomp more, but is that all? Just use Rocky Helmet and Iron Barbs/Rough Skin?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68793706
I say he should have preserved his rocky helm Garchomp more, but is that all? Just use Rocky Helmet and Iron Barbs/Rough Skin?
Banette does have Prankster on the turn it Mega Evolves. It has normal Banette's speed, but the Priority check comes after the mega evolution. When I said Shedinja is a check, I meant vs. EQ variants (which has an easier time dealing with bulky steels and Rocky Helmet). Kangaskhan might run Fire Punch, but certainly not Fire Blast; it's special attack is awful.
The issue is, that while every Megakang set has its counters, your battle going well depends on which Kang your opponent has and which one you planned to counter. If they don't line up, you're screwed. If they do line up, you're still likely saccing something to her to get her off the map.
EDIT: UR2L8 Your opponent should probably have switched Chomp out; without Rocks, even a 252 ATK / Adamant / +2 Chomp can't OHKO Physically Defensive Mandibuzz, so the miss was not really crucial there. But his team did not seem particularly well equipped to deal with the Kangaroo.
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UR2L8
He should have had a way to either prevent sticky web from going down or tried to remove it before mkanga was sent out. Without sticky web, zoroark would have outsped and KO'd. Not really relevant in this case since mkanga was sent out really early. I'd say it was sticky web that won the game, not mkanga.
He defintely wasted his garchomp. Both scarf genesect and thundy would have outsped and KO'd with an ice move. And yet he wasted one turn trying to SD up. Scald+rough skin+rocky helmet would have been enough to KO. Or at least revenge with cloyster as +2 sucker punch fails to KO. Switching chomp into PuP also does wonders.
He sent out empoleon out against a pokemon that commonly runs taunt and tried to set up stealth rock. Had he gone for the immediate 2HKO with ice beam, he would have had enough health to prevent you from boosting beyond +2.
By then it was a lost game (any pokemon can sweep with +3 atk and effectively +1 spd). But he could have tried to abuse intimidate a bit more. Wouldn't have made much of a difference.
He should have had a way to either prevent sticky web from going down or tried to remove it before mkanga was sent out. Without sticky web, zoroark would have outsped and KO'd. Not really relevant in this case since mkanga was sent out really early. I'd say it was sticky web that won the game, not mkanga.
He defintely wasted his garchomp. Both scarf genesect and thundy would have outsped and KO'd with an ice move. And yet he wasted one turn trying to SD up. Scald+rough skin+rocky helmet would have been enough to KO. Or at least revenge with cloyster as +2 sucker punch fails to KO. Switching chomp into PuP also does wonders.
He sent out empoleon out against a pokemon that commonly runs taunt and tried to set up stealth rock. Had he gone for the immediate 2HKO with ice beam, he would have had enough health to prevent you from boosting beyond +2.
By then it was a lost game (any pokemon can sweep with +3 atk and effectively +1 spd). But he could have tried to abuse intimidate a bit more. Wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Keldeo has to run LO to guarantee that it wins, too, otherwise even Expert Belt Secret Sword has a 30% chance to 2HKO. Let's not forget bulky SToss MKhan, too, which is always 2HKO'd by EB versions and is only OHKO'd by LO versions about 20% of the time.
Bulky SToss MKhan is going to throw an even bigger wrench into trying to outpredict it. Garchomp and Skarmory no longer check it in any way, both being 2HKO'd (if Garchomp invests enough in HP to survive, it either loses the speed or the power to win the matchup).
The opponent should never have lead rocky helmet chomp as that was his only counter. The play to use empoleon vs Chomp wasn't bad considering a burn would've ended it, but chomp was his best and only hope to stopping it.
Unfortunately, his mistake does not justify Khan completely wrecking that team with no issues whatsoever...
Unfortunately, his mistake does not justify Khan completely wrecking that team with no issues whatsoever...
I think the stoss version is easier to stop because it's not gonna sweep your whole team team after 1 free turn. And rocky helmet garchomp is still a good switch in. Just switching in to stoss does 60% to Kanga, 43% if you switch in to knock off.
It's definitely not as huge an offensive threat but it's still annoying to take down and messes with some common counters. I'm not sure where that 60% number is coming from, it will do 33% of Garchomp's max HP which is about 28% of MKang's if Garchomp is uninvested.
EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot about Rough Skin. So it's about 53% if you switch into SToss. Does Rocky Helmet damage occur before or after Knock Off removes it?
? i don't know what mandibuzz you've been using against PuP but mine never takes more than 20 HP from mega PuP :T i don't typically switch mandibuzz in on kanga, if i have to switch in on one i send out Breloom.
+2 Return is a guaranteed OHKO. You won't have a chance to hit it.
PuP -> +2 Return has about a 20% chance to KO 252 HP/252+ Def Mandi. +2 Return is a guaranteed 2HKO while you 2HKO back with Foul Play. That's assuming MKang is Jolly, if it's Adamant you only have about a 10% chance to survive PuP -> +2 Return.
ahh see i wasn't really concerned with return. i don't know why but literally every kanga user i've battled with has only used PuP on my mandibuzz. guess i haven't encountered smart kanga users yet.
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 33-39 (7.7 - 9.1%)
+1 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 25-30 (5.8 - 7%) (second hit)
Mandibuzz sits at 92% health now, then this happens:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 370-438 (87.2 - 103.3%)
Can we stop bringing this up. Mandibuzz is not a counter, nor is it a check to kangaskhan at all.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 25-30 (5.8 - 7%) (second hit)
Mandibuzz sits at 92% health now, then this happens:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 370-438 (87.2 - 103.3%)
Can we stop bringing this up. Mandibuzz is not a counter, nor is it a check to kangaskhan at all.
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His team is garbage and he played terrible. This is example #27631312 of someone posting a low-rating replay (this guy was ~1500) which is completely worthless. The guys team is horrible and his decisions so poor that he's going to lose to almost everything (which is why he's 1500). His team has no focus Sash on a Cloyster, that he didn't lead with, he couldn't clear sticky web, he has no Intimidate users, no Ghosts, noone with willowowisp, no revenge killer, and his only EQ immune is a Moxie Gyarados which is weak to Rock. This team is weak to basically everything OU. And of course my favourite part is how in the chat he complains that Kang needs to be uber.
Replays like this hurt my brain.
While I don't disagree with you about the poor quality of the replay, since when has lead!FocusSash!Cloyster been the mark of a good player?
while i agree that his team certainly needs work, you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone just because of that. maybe stuff like this wouldn't hurt you brain if you weren't just plain judging someone who could've been a new player or someone whos younger. this is still just pokemon yanno, you gotta lighten up a bit.
Thanks for judging, now while you're at it, find the door and don't let it hit you on the way out.
While you may think something like that is a good way to point out what is wrong, it is not only unhelpful but I think everyone else here looks at that post and goes "Brilliant, now we get to deal with this...". Instead of degrading, try to teach. You just attacked 75% of the bank'd tier (I believe 1500 area is about 75% on GXE) for no reason.
Also remember that the person posting the rating was in that 1500 area at the time. This really reflects poorly on you for how awful that is to other users.
Wait, what? Your conclusion is correct, but the calcs aren't…this is what I'm getting for PuP:
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 33-39 (7.7 - 9.1%)
+1 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 49-58 (5.8 - 6.8%) (factors in the 50% damage drop for second hit of PB)
Something isn't quite right there.
Oh yeah, i have no idea what happened, gonna fix that, though that doesnt really change anything.
His opponent linked the replay asking us to analyse it, what's wrong with you? Also you might not have noticed but this is a competitive forum where the entire purpose is to analyse and judge. If you don't like it then "don't let the door hit you on the way out". It's unbelievable how afraid of criticism you are.
More importantly I'm not insulting anyone for not being the top% of players, I'm simply saying they are not informed enough to make judgements on high level gameplay. The reality is that if you are 1550 then you don't have any clue what needs to be banned/not banned. I gave constructive criticism (as was asked) on a few of the many, many things wrong with his team and play. I'm not saying he's a bad human being, I'm saying it's childish and arrogant for someone 1550 to think they have any clue what's fair/not fair.
I simply meant that if you're going to use Cloyster then you need to either have a Focus Sash/Lead with it/have Spin support/Etc, and he had none of those things.
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