Then what's the point of Facade?
I'm not arguing that Kangaskhan can't handle Trevenant or Gourgeist.
I'm actually trying to illustrate why Facade is just a gimmicky option on Mega Kangaskhan, when Return is just better 99% of the time.
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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Then what's the point of Facade?
I'm not arguing that Kangaskhan can't handle Trevenant or Gourgeist.
I'm actually trying to illustrate why Facade is just a gimmicky option on Mega Kangaskhan, when Return is just better 99% of the time.
Why waste a turn on the chance that your about to get WoW'd when you could have prevented any and all WoWing?
You can spend that time WoWing yourself or abusing PuP/Sucker if you really wanted to.
They both take a turn lol, and the WoW user will probably WoW because otherwise Kangaskhan smashes him. Also if you're against a WoWer with Sableye+Khan in doubles, switch Khan.
And this is not the forum for Doubles anyways.
They don't both take a turn. Taunt will require more than one use as people are prone to switch out/the move wears out/multiple WOW capable 'mons. Imprison only needs to be usd once.
Edit: Disabling Sucker Punch also helps clear the way for some faster-frail mons that struggle against a SP. Think Alakazam, Gengar, etc.
Edit: Disabling Sucker Punch also helps clear the way for some faster-frail mons that struggle against a SP. Think Alakazam, Gengar, etc.
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In singles it is useless.
In doubles no one really uses Sucker Punch. At all. Or Will-O-Wisp or Taunt, for that matter. You just don't see that kind of stuff. Plus this isn't the Doubles subforum.
With the advent of Mega Kang and the hysteria its brought with it PLENTY of teams are running WoW both on showdown (pokebank doubles) and on cartridge. If Kang is seen in my team preview, I'm pretty consistently greeted with a WoW to the face.
If Mega Kangaskhan gets banned, will this thread be locked? Or could a regular Kangaskhan actually be viable in OU with its new Scrappy Power-Up Punch?
Regular Kangaskhan's stats are simply not good. Period. Maybe in RU or UU it could be decent now that it has something other than Work Up to work with, but Base 95 Attack is quite subpar, especially in environments with Medicham and CB Entei (RU) or Victini and LO Darmanitan (UU).
That's great. You can tell who is using WoW. Rotom-W, maybe Talonflame, Sableye, that kind of thing. Also this is a thread for SINGLES, which means that Taunt+Recover+WoW>Imprison+WoW+Sucker Punch.
It will be locked, as normal Khangaskhan is not OU viable.
This works well on showdown but keeping happiness to a minimum on cartridge is a bit of a chore.
I guess, it makes no odds real, in a realistic scenario (I.E.Cart play) you pretty much need Return. Ditto isn't great Vs it anyway, it has to Sucker Punch cause of its HP. it has to choice lock itself into Sucker Punch. It also likes to scream "Set Up on me" at the top of its lungs.
i thought of a decent set for a Facade Kang. nothing special but still.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Facade
- Power-Up Punch
- Crunch
PuP boosts Facades power of course, SToss is another option to Bypass the burn. Crunch means you can hit them ghosts on the switch.
That said....this sets not good. its just the only way I see Facade working because it DOESN'T work.
That's a pretty terrible set tbh, using Seismic Toss with fully invested Atk is so inefficient. And without Sucker Punch you can't sweep or attain 2HKOs you'd normally get.
Ditto has to use Sucker Punch in case Mega Kang uses Sucker Punch. +2 Sucker Punch on Ditto Kang with its terrible HP will OHKO it, last time I checked.
And whats it gonna do with a burn, pretty much nothing. SToss is there to hit hard after burn
Also Ditto has 50 HP meaning its KOed by Sucker Punch, meaning if it doesn't go for Sucker Punch it dies anyway. and i don't think Kangas own Sucker Punch KOs itself.
Yeah I realized right after posting which is why I edited it out, but surely Ditto can take an unboosted sucker punch after stealth rock? It has Kanga's defenses and fully invested HP (same as uninvested Latias) after all.
And wasn't the whole point of the set to use FACADE to combat burn status? Seismic Toss with fully invested atk is bad no matter how you look at it.
you wouldn't bring it in Unboosted anyway, whats the point?
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto): 127-151 (42.3 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto) Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 243-288 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if boosts aren't in play, Ditto gets vapourized by Return, if they are, Sucker Punch wins out. So Ditto is gonna lose.
I'm not saying Ditto is a decent switch in but I find it weird that it doesn't win 1v1 without boosts, Kanga shouldn't have any bulk investment so what does the calc look in that case? You could try Ditto using return or going for consecutive sucker punches.
When it comes in to try to revenge it at least creates a mind game of whether it'll sucker punch or use a normal attack which puts the Kanga user in the dilemma of whether to switch or sucker punch.
yes it should, look at its suspect test thread, standard is 252hp, 252Attk, 4..spe i think, not sure, hardly matters. If Khan is invested ins Speed and Ditto takes those EVs like it does....
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan (ditto): 127-151 (53.3 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto) Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 243-288 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so it loses.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan (Ditto): 243-288 (102.1 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch (Ditto) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 127-151 (36 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
so yeah 90% Ditto, the most reliable revenge killer in the game to set up sweepers, won't work.
Are you being difficult on purpose? You're using uninvested Ditto, it should have 300 HP.
Edit: I just realized maybe you don't know how Ditto works so sorry for accusing you of trying to fool me, Ditto doesn't copy EVs it copies the stats themselves (except HP) and keeps its own EVs and IVs.
So after slogging through the Kangaskhanite tiering thread, I saw a strategy using multiple Healing Wishes to bring M-Kangaskhan back from near-death, so I stole it and tried it myself. It is the most flat-out broken thing ever (as if Kang by itself wasn't broken enough!!) - after your opponent jumps through hoops to try to at least neutralise SCP-682's spawn, let alone be near killing it, you can send out something like Jirachi and not only bring it to full health, but remove all status. My take on it:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Scrappy
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Power-up Punch
- Return / Body Slam
- Sucker Punch
- Crunch / Fire Punch
Gardevoir @ Light Clay
Nature: Timid
Trait: Trace
252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
- Healing Wish
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Nature:Timid Jolly (sorry, I mixed them up)
Trait: Serene Grace
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Healing Wish
Use Gardevoir to set up screens and check fighting-types and Jirachi to check faster things that can KO a weakened Kangaskhan. When your Healing Wish mons are near-done, use Healing Wish and Kang, even when in red-health and burned, will be in tip-top health to rip apart the opposite team a second or even third time. You can feel the despair of your opponent through your screen as this happens, and many times, they'll simply forfeit. You can also use other mons like Latias and Cresselia (Lunar Dance) equally well. Quite conveniently, most Healing Wish users are Psychic and/or Fairy, resisting Kang's only weakness, and Kangaskhan resists their Ghost weakness. Throw in something like Talonflame or Rotom-H and you're good to go.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Scrappy
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Power-up Punch
- Return / Body Slam
- Sucker Punch
- Crunch / Fire Punch
Gardevoir @ Light Clay
Nature: Timid
Trait: Trace
252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
- Healing Wish
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Nature:
Trait: Serene Grace
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Healing Wish
Use Gardevoir to set up screens and check fighting-types and Jirachi to check faster things that can KO a weakened Kangaskhan. When your Healing Wish mons are near-done, use Healing Wish and Kang, even when in red-health and burned, will be in tip-top health to rip apart the opposite team a second or even third time. You can feel the despair of your opponent through your screen as this happens, and many times, they'll simply forfeit. You can also use other mons like Latias and Cresselia (Lunar Dance) equally well. Quite conveniently, most Healing Wish users are Psychic and/or Fairy, resisting Kang's only weakness, and Kangaskhan resists their Ghost weakness. Throw in something like Talonflame or Rotom-H and you're good to go.
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Banette needs protect (prankster doesn't activate until the turn after it mega evolves) to reliably deal with Kanga, and even then it has to not come in on a crunch which will OHKO it. Not a great answer.
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