it also gives you a good chance to get the sitrus berry back. I don't run protect, but it's not useless at all if you run it with harvest, a berry and curse.
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Pokémon Trevenant
- Thread starter Scotti
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Then why do you have Protect on your set? When do you plan to use that if not after Curse? WoW's damage isn't significant enough to stall for, IMO, especially since with your set you don't have LS to also give you free recovery.
You do use Protect after Curse, you simply do not use Curse raw on their switch. Odds are they're going to switch into a counter that will force your own Trevenant out, or kill it if it stays in. If you Destiny Bond on the turn they come in then it achieves the same effect as Substitute, they effectively can not attack you for that turn, only without the cost of 25% of your hp. On the following turn you may then Curse, and Protect the turn after that to have, over all, more HP saved than you otherwise would with a sub.
And the point of the set is not to stall, it is to more efficiently force switches and spread burn when applicable.
I do not think Protect is useless by any means, but it is a weak play against something directly after Cursing it on the switch. They have no real reason to stay in, and Trev has lost 25% and possibly its berry while the opponent has only lost 25% and likely regained momentum since you have done nothing on your followup turn Protecting. The only reason to Protect after a Curse is if your opponent can VoltSwitch out, in order to keep them in play and incur more, free, residual damage; or if the counter they switched into play, such as Heatran, is capable of 1shotting you from 75% and is faster, as they will likely stay in play regardless so the free turn of them switching out is moot the vast majority of the time.
If neither of those two circumstances are met, after a Curse you should always be prepping a Will-o-Wisp or new Destiny Bond to force the same catch 22 on the new switchin.
My issue here is that I don't think there are enough things (or any things, really) that come in expecting to OHKO you with an attacking who don't have another attack that won't OHKO you. Trev's bulk works against him here, many opponents are going to have something they can use that will hurt but not kill you, meaning you can't safely Curse without fear of killing yourself.
At least that's my theory, but if your'e saying in practice sweepers just switch out when they get DB'd, I guess it works better than I would expect. I do agree that in general Protect right after Curse is unreliable and wastes a turn you could be spreading status to whatever switches in.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-69181712
Cool replay of Curse Trevenant winning me a game. There was lots of hax with successful consecutive Protects, but I would have lost the game if I had had a Leech Seed/WoW one.
I felt like my team couldn't really stand up to the opponent's hyper offense, especially against the Hydreigon, but all Trevenant needed was one turn to grab the momentum.
Definitely a viable set, IMO. If you have burn support elsewhere, it's the superior option, I think. The only problem is that it's impossible to recover past 75%.
Sub
Curse
Protect
Phantom Force / Horn Leech
Horn Leech can heal past 75%, and can surprise stuff like Azumarill. What do you think?
Cool replay of Curse Trevenant winning me a game. There was lots of hax with successful consecutive Protects, but I would have lost the game if I had had a Leech Seed/WoW one.
I felt like my team couldn't really stand up to the opponent's hyper offense, especially against the Hydreigon, but all Trevenant needed was one turn to grab the momentum.
Definitely a viable set, IMO. If you have burn support elsewhere, it's the superior option, I think. The only problem is that it's impossible to recover past 75%.
Sub
Curse
Protect
Phantom Force / Horn Leech
Horn Leech can heal past 75%, and can surprise stuff like Azumarill. What do you think?
Man you were fortunate to never get fully paralyzed once in all those turns. Also impressed you tanked that Dark Pulse from Hydreigon.
Protect and Phantom Force are indeed good ways to fish for Sitrus restores and do Curse damage. I still can't get behind Sub and Curse on the same set. I think you're better off using WoW because it can't fail (can miss) if your HP gets to low which is so very possible with Trevenant's speed. Landing a WoW does some damage while you fish for more Sitrus restores and can at least benefit the rest of the team with a neutered physical attacker. Horn Leech could work too so you're not solely relying on Sitrus for health or Curse for damage. Trev is a good Iron Defense/Sword Dance Scolipede BP recipient having numerous methods of staying healthy.
I don't know why no one's quote this yet. This is the same set I'm running (I think I saw that original post you mentioned and did a variation but made my way back to this coincidentally, haha), and it's hilariously effective. I've switched in on countless Rotom-W's attempting to burn me (some even try twice in a row), and then the terror begins. This set is great against most bulky waters, basically, and once you get a sub up you can burn all the mons and Curse when you can, and the opponent just ragequits if they can't deal with it (especially since the metagame is so physically based right now). Even Talonflame doesn't like to be Cursed. One addition I'd like to make is to have Attack IVs be at 0 so Foul Play does as little damage as possible. I don't know how big a difference it would make, but it would make some.
Curse uses up half of the user's current maximum HP. It doesn't matter how much you invest in EV's - it's 50% of 100%
Agreed dear fellow. One speedy gliscor taunt and the set gets shut down. Not that I am trying to doubt anyones prowess because I love this new tree more than anything. However, I must be inclined to point out that the effective potential of this set is ruined if an opponent happens to switch out to a taunter. Once taunted Trevenant cannot set up any new curses or leech seeds to do residual damage.
Taunt is incredibly rare, especially in pre-pokebank. Most Gliscors don't run Taunt right now (Sub/Protect/Toxic doesn't leave much room for it), while with the release of Defog it'll be even less likely to run Taunt. After that the only other 'common' Taunt users will be Deoxys-S/D and Jellicent, which wont switch into a Trevenant until it knows your full moveset, and Sableye.
This isn't exactly a new phenomenon, either. Even for a lot of 5th gen Taunt was incredibly rare. It has been a very long time since a Taunt using suicide lead was on every team.
Smeargle is used almost exclusively as a suicide lead to set up hazards, while Crobat and Sableye are neither all that common nor that threatening. You wouldn't stay in on either anyway, because of Brave Bird/Foul Play, regardless of what Trevenant set you are running.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-69459107
Here's a replay showing the momentum Curse/Rest Trevenant brings to your team. The usefulness of Curse over Leech Seed is highlighted here, as my opponent had to make a choice between saving his Togekiss or losing it and killing my Trevenant. Leech Seed does no damage on the turn the seeder gets knocked out, meaning that such a gambit wouldn't even occur.
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I Realllllllyyyyy like this set. But i just wonder what this pokemon would look like, like this:
Trevenant (F) Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 80 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wood Hammer / Horn Leech
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
Any comments or critiques?
it's been posted twice already but since i use it all the time i'll talk about it
this is the best set you can run with tyranitar, they resist each others weaknesses and create so many mindgames through the both of them it's awesome, lum harvest trev can take all the status in the world for your team, pairing them up with magnezone also gives them pretty much all the resists you need. This set works best with ttar but i don't know what other team this would work well on
i also just noticed that you're running special defense EVs, this set works much better with those special defense EVs in defense (you're also 52 EVs shy so split them between defense and speed) due to the typing, it can wall excadrill and other physical pokemon
Oh yeah, that reminds me. I stopped using that set in favor of another that I feel is almost strictly better in light of some post-Pokebank threats.
Trevenant @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw / Horn Leech
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rest / Protect
While the other set I posted works, I hate that it can't apply defensive pressure in the form of Leech Seed. That move eases the need for prediction in many scenarios, such as when you are not sure whether Heatran or Lati@s is going to switch directly into Trevenant. Extra recovery never hurts either, and reduces the need for constant Natural Cure-Rest healing.
The best partner for this set is Specially Defensive Heatran, as it has excellent defensive synergy with Trevenant. Also, if both of them run Protect, they form an efficient scouting core that potentially ruins teams that use too many Choiced Pokes.
Trevenant @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw / Horn Leech
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rest / Protect
While the other set I posted works, I hate that it can't apply defensive pressure in the form of Leech Seed. That move eases the need for prediction in many scenarios, such as when you are not sure whether Heatran or Lati@s is going to switch directly into Trevenant. Extra recovery never hurts either, and reduces the need for constant Natural Cure-Rest healing.
The best partner for this set is Specially Defensive Heatran, as it has excellent defensive synergy with Trevenant. Also, if both of them run Protect, they form an efficient scouting core that potentially ruins teams that use too many Choiced Pokes.
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Is there a preference towards Physically or Specially defensive? I was planning on using Bulky MegazardX and Tyranitar, so it's not like I need one specific EV spread, and if it helps I was wanting to use the Harvest Lum set to soak status.
If you're going to use WoW than SpD makes total sense. It really depends on the set though.
That's what I was figuring, I just hadn't settled on if I wanted my only status to be from WoW and two pokemon to carry it lol. That, and I'm still trying to figure out an optimal set for my team, but I'm leaning towards LumHarvest with Horn Leech/Wood Hammer, Shadow Claw, WoW and Leech Seed/Rest. The main reason behind me wanting to use LumHarvest is due to not having a cleric and my team hates status to an extent (CharX, Excadrill, Ttar, Azumarill, Greninja).
i see your point but with the WoW, like others are saying, doesn't it make more sense for SpD? i mean obviously something in Def would be nice. like that extra 56 but how much do you REALLY need with WoW?
All neutral nature base 65's with < 4 speed ev's and below. So stuff like ttar and scizor, who is important to burn before retreating, other wise chances are you'll die to pursuit.
No problem.
also, while it doesn't matter which defense you invest in as both defenses are good enough to beat different pokes, i just feel physical is better because of the types it resists but SpD is still very good
Would a Choice Banded set be viable? It sort of works like Ferrothorn, switch in, they switch out into a taunter/brutishlypowerfulmon/grass type and then you hit them with a super powered Phantom Force/Shadow Claw/Horn Leech. Horn Leech doubles as healing, too, and its attack stat, whilst not amazing offensively is more than decent.
Ferrothorn worked because gyro ball is stupid strong. Trevenant might have slightly higher base attack than Ferro, but when Ferro is using a move with more than twice the BP of shadow claw he hits wayyyyyy harder.
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