XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)

[HedgeKnight]

Um... So manaphy is legal? It's not in ubers, and it's not in the op. That seems good. Honestly, with the mega-evos, OU got much more powerful, which in turn made UU a much more powerful format than before. This may cause a ripple through the lower tiers, possibly necessitating a new tier.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

So how's Mega Medicham? No one's mentioned him.

Um... So manaphy is legal? It's not in ubers, and it's not in the op. That seems good. Honestly, with the mega-evos, OU got much more powerful, which in turn made UU a much more powerful format than before. This may cause a ripple through the lower tiers, possibly necessitating a new tier.

Yup. Legal. Along with the rest of the rain crew.

 

[Kkop]

as someone who played a ton of gen 5 uu, the new power level brought by uu's new additions is pretty scary (especially to someone like me who tends to play defensive teams). the rain crew (genie formes, manaphy, keldeo, etc) looks like very little fun to play against even without perma-weather, and the thought of haxorus running around is definitely worrisome. i'm also not used to megas, defog, and new buffs to certain moves/pokemon yet so i'm pretty lost. it would seem that my best bet is to wait a bit until ou settles before i take the plunge into gen 6 uu. (any advice is welcomed!)

 

[noknuckles]

UU is so scary that Haxorus is relatively tame. Everything people said about how UU has nothing to handle/switch in to him is probably still true. Boosted, it can destroy the tier. But it needs to get that boost to go from powerful to absolutely devastating. Compared to things like Hydreigon and Keldeo that are absolutely devastating right off the bat (and I think even Hydreigon is fine right now). It's not that Haxorus is any worse than people say. It's just that the rest of the tier is just as (if not more) broken so it doesn't seem so broken in comparison

Rain abusers are kind of crazy. Oh man this tier is wack. So much hsit to try.

Mega heracross 2hkos fucking hippowdon god damn it really finds peace in a tier without talonflame, gliscor, lando-t, and aegislash thats no doubt. Brb breaking out the eviolite gligar again.

Wouldn't Doublade block Mega Heracross? I'd much rather use something with good offensive presence than something like Gligar, even if it gets no recovery. I'm not one of the Gligar haters from last gen, but I think Gen 6 power creep is gonna be really cruel to it

 

[Ash Borer]

Wouldn't Doublade block Mega Heracross? I'd much rather use something with good offensive presence than something like Gligar, even if it gets no recovery. I'm not one of the Gligar haters from last gen, but I think Gen 6 power creep is gonna be really cruel to it

Heracross gets knock off, it cant 2hko phys def doublade with EQ or knock off, but knock off really fucks over Doublade, it has a super shallow movepool and with such bad sdef after knock off it's just going to get beaten down. Gligar kind of suffers a similar fate, knock off -> rock blast does serious damage.

 

[Seiterman]

as someone who played a ton of gen 5 uu, the new power level brought by uu's new additions is pretty scary (especially to someone like me who tends to play defensive teams). the rain crew (genie formes, manaphy, keldeo, etc) looks like very little fun to play against even without perma-weather, and the thought of haxorus running around is definitely worrisome. i'm also not used to megas, defog, and new buffs to certain moves/pokemon yet so i'm pretty lost. it would seem that my best bet is to wait a bit until ou settles before i take the plunge into gen 6 uu. (any advice is welcomed!)

While a lot of scary offensive threats dropped to UU, there are some more defensive mons that dropped too. Things like Chansey, Wobbuffet, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, Jellicent, Deoxys-D and Vaporeon are all UU legal, and some of the new Gen VI Mons like Mega Aggron, Eviolite Doublade and Florges also lean heavily towards defense. It helps to remember that defensive mons never get the same hype as offensive mons.

That said, there is definitely merit to the current trend of offensive/weather based UU teams, as they are definitely threatening. Things will switch up as Pokemon switch tiers and things get booted to BL, so you won't see a truly stable UU for a good long while. Things will balance out eventually. If, as you play UU you decide you're done fighting the same couple of weather teams, that's totally reasonable. A big part of why I didn't really battle during Gen V was that I was very tired of seeing Politoed's stupid face everywhere, and tired of weather in general. The playstyle doesn't suit me. I'd definitely say that we need to wait (or play, to help shape the metagame a bit,) and see what happens.

It's interesting to see it all play out either way.

 

[kokoloko]

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

I'm revising the original plan of 0 bans until we go official in favor of a more fluid system where we can use the beta period to start kicking stuff into BL.

Reason: For one, I'm worried that if we ban everything at once when we go official, we will miss stuff that needs banning and that will complicate things with the new system. If we start pushing stuff into BL now, we won't have that problem.

Clarifications: Decisions on what will be sent to BL will be 100% up to me and the council I'm putting together in the upcoming days. Sending a Pokemon to BL is not a big deal because every BL Pokemon will be retested in the future unless it rises to OU due to usage. Therefore, we will be sending Pokemon to BL quickly and very liberally.

When do we go official?

Here's the nice thing about this revised system. It gives us a very clear line as to when we go official, that being once we feel that there are no more Pokemon in UU that need to be tested.

The following Pokemon and abilities will be banned effective immediately (or rather, when Zarel / Joim implement the bans on PS): Kyurem-B, Manaphy, Drizzle.

That is all.

 

[DarkSlay]

Time for round two of under-appreciated, but good, UU Pokemon!

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
Moveset:
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic / Roar

Vaporeon is a Pokemon that we've all seen in usage for six generations now, but for some reason this fish really isn't getting much usage in UU. I'm not quite sure why. It's by far one of the two best Wish passers in the tier, having great defensive typing, above average Physical bulk (unlike Florges), a large HP stat, a great utility move in Scald and a lot more. This is a fantastic partner for Mega evolutions, particularly MegaHeracross, as well as great "glue" for Bulky Offense teams. Its bulk and Scald / Toxic shut down a lot too, like MegaBlastoise. Also, Water Absorb is pretty neat and can score some free switch-ins on things like MegaBlastoise. Vaporeon is on my main team, and it's one of the primary reasons why it's successful. The set is pretty standard, so not much explanation needed. Toxic is for Vaporeon checks, but Roar racks up hazards and stops things like CroCune from setting up. Ice Beam is okay too, but there aren't as many Grass-types in the tier at the moment, and the current Dragons hate status / getting phazed.

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EV's: 248 HP / 52 SpA / 208 Spe
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
- Encore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed / Toxic / Stun Spore
- Moonblast

Whimsicott, if you are not aware already, was blessed with a retyping in the shift from B/W to XY. Whimsicott is now Grass/Fairy, meaning that it gains an immunity to Dragon, resistances to Dark, Fighting, Water, Grass, Ground and a neutrality to Bug. All of those attacking types are fairly common in the metagame, meaning that Whimsicott finds itself as a solid answer to a number of top threats at the moment. Whimsicott resists both of Keldeo's STAB options, for example, while it can safely switch into Latias' Draco Meteor for free. Furthermore, a lot of Pokemon in the tier are resorting to Substitue on switch-outs, meaning that a priority Encore is both practical and invaluable in many occasions. All three moves in the third spot are viable, depending on what your team needs (or what you want to annoy). You may be looking at the EV spread, thinking "why are you investing in Speed when you have Prankster"? Good question. A Timid nature and 208 Speed EV's out-speeds positive nature Base 110's, which includes Latios (and right under Keldeo). With a 52 SpA investment, Moonblast is guaranteed (99.8% chance) to 2HKO offensive Latias after Stealth Rock damage. Out-speeding both Keldeo and Latias AND hitting them for STAB Super Effective is huge, and Moonblast's awesome BP of 95 (plus a chance to drop SpA) makes it a real force. If MegaAbsol ever becomes popular, 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe will work as well. Whimsicott may just be the current metagame's "anti-metagame" Pokemon.

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
Moveset:
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Aerial Ace

This one is kind of thinking even more outside of the box than normal. Krookodile is an odd Pokemon in the UU tier: it has a useful Speed stat, a decent support movepool, a good Attack stat, great STABs including a crucial Dark STAB, awesome abilities in both Moxie and Intimidate and access to Knock Off. It has a lot of tools that make it desirable. However, it's also a "jack of all trades, master of none" in a way as well. It has all of these things going for it, but in practice, it finds that it can't accomplish any one avenue efficiently. You have to be careful with Krookodile and not make the mistake of giving it a role it shouldn't be usef for. This, in my testing, is probably the best way of utilizing Krookodile, as an offensive Stealth Rock pivot and stallbreaker. Come in on Physical threats like Crobat, scare them off, abuse Knock Off and/or lay down SR, EQ when appropriate. It's not the easiest Pokemon to use, but in some cases it can be very effective. The last move gives it two distinct roles: Taunt enables it to play the roll of a stallbreaker, while Aerial Ace enables it to act as a lure for MegaHeracross, 2HKO'ing even max HP invested MegaHeracross cleanly.

I had an interesting conversation on #xyuu regarding ranking the current Mega Evolutions in order from best to worst. Mega evolutions, like in OU, are a huge part of how UU teams are shaped, and it's become obvious that some Mega evolutions are inherently better than others. Here's how I'd personally rank them:

• 1: Mega Heracross: Self-explanatory, this thing is a menace. Not much can switch into it safely, and if they can, they're probably 2HKO'd. Even "checks" like the Nidos and Hippowdon are eventually 2HKO'd by Pin Missile. To make matters worse, not much can OHKO it either besides users of strong Flying STAB, which most are KO'd by Rock Blast anyway. Definitely the strongest of the bunch.
• 2: Mega Gardevoir: This hits like a truck. STAB Pixilate Hyper Voice does an insane amount of damage (KO's standard Bisharp, for example), ignoring Subs by the way, and STAB Psyshock hits things like Chansey pretty hard. It has a very bad Defense stat and can be played around with Sucker Punch as a result, but it can run Substitute or even Will-O-Wisp to circumvent that. Great all-around Mega. Pre-Mega Gard's Trace also gives it unique switch-in opportunities (it keeps the Speed from Swift Swim when Mega Evolving, for insance).
  
• 3: Mega Medicham: Purely powerful (ha!). Seriously though, it's a really good Pokemon that demolish a lot of unprepared teams. 100 Speed is awesome, and it has a really diverse offensive movepool. Drain Punch sets are killer, giving it longetivity over a match, but smart HJK sets just obliterate people. Biggest problems are probably its 4MSS, where certain threats check it if it's missing a certain move, and its bulk (although 60 / 85 / 85 is far from terrible).
• 4: Mega Aggron: It's a bit different than the other Megas in that it's a pure tank as opposed to an offensive threat, but in the things that it does accomplish it shines. Filter is an amazing ability, toning down Ground moves in particular, and it incredible Defense makes it hard to take down. Good support movepool and a usable Attack stat coupled with Heavy Slam makes it a force. It has a lot of tools that can make it a real hindrance to many of the common threats in the tier. It's slow as heck, though, and almost always requires Wish support to be effective. Still, not many things can take three or more Super Effective hits and live to tell the tale.
  
• 5: Mega Absol: Mega Absol plays a lot like a stronger, faster, frailer Bisharp. Has Sucker Punch and Knock Off, an amazing set of coverage moves that span the horizon, and Magic Guard that protects it from Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. Also has access to Swords Dance and has a usable Base 115 Special Attack stat to boot. It's an offensive juggernaut. Unfortunately, 65 / 60 / 60 defenses are pretty bad, meaning that if it can't immediately score a OHKO, it will faint. It also has a hard time setting up, considering that most neutral hits take a large chunk out of it. Fairy types are also a bit annoying. Using MegaAbsol at the moment is a bit of an opportunity cost: great Pokemon, but Bisharp does a lot of the same things (and even more) without using up a Mega slot.
• 6: Mega Ampharos: Mega Ampharos is a deceptively good Mega. Fantastic Electric / Dragon typing means it resists a lot of common attacking types, particularly Special moves including a rare Flying resist and a 4x Electric resist, and great 90 / 105 / 110 defenses. This set shines with a RestTalk set, making it very hard to take down. It's a great Pokemon given the current metagame, although perhaps it's more of a product of the metagame rather than a "truly good Pokemon". Weaknesses to Ground, Dragon, Fairy and Ice are a bit of a let-down, and its abysmal Speed really leaves it open to a lot of unnecessary assaults. Its bulk is usually enough to survive neutral hits (and even some SE hits) well, but eventually this will go down sooner rather than later.
  
• 7: Mega Houndoom: Scary good Special Attacker under the Sun. Dark / Fire coverage is fantastic, and it can often just set up its own Sunny Day without the help of Ninetales thanks to the coverage its STABs afford it. If you don't want to lose HP every turn, you can opt for Nasty Plot over Sunny Day. Stats across the board are very good, particularly 115 Speed. I think this is actually a very underrated Pokemon at the moment that's hindered by some popular threats in the tier, like Keldeo. It's weak to a lot of common typings as well (Water, Ground, Fighting, Rock, etc.), and lacks a good number of resistances, meaning that it's hard to switch in and out. It's also weak to Stealth Rock and susceptible to Spikes, limiting its usage.
• 8: Mega Blastoise: A ranking of 8 may seem too low for Mega Blastoise, but it is by no means a bad Mega evolution. It's likely one of the best Rapid Spin users in the tier, quite possibly in the game, as not only does it have awesome defensive typing, it has some actual power to threaten Ghost types that try and switch in. Mega Launcher and access to cool Dark / Fighting coverage alongside Water makes it a force to be reckoned with. However, without a means of boosting its Special Attack, it's quite limited in the amount of damage it can dish out. Unlike Mega Aggron, it's not really a defensive answer to threats in the tier either, being 2HKO'd by a surprising amount of moves. It has good defenses, but not great without some sort of recovery. Essentially, Mega Blastoise has one job only, limiting its potential, but it's very good at that one job.
• 9: Mega Banette: Mega Banette is one of those Pokemon that's really scary on paper and is quite effective in practice. Prankster, with access to Taunt, WoW and Destiny Bond, can play a lot of games with opposing Pokemon, and its massive Attack stat plus Phantom Force or Shadow Claw makes it able to threaten things immediately and prevent it from being Taunt bait. However, in the end, Mega Banette is a bit too narrow of a Pokemon, relying heavily on prediction and is pretty limited when taking on opposing Pokemon. Some things are truly threatened by it, and others couldn't care less about it. It's not a bad Pokemon and a good player can use it effectively throughout a match, but there's always a risk of its impact being hardly noticeable against certain teams. Hard to justify a Mega slot for it.
• 10: Mega Abomasnow: Mega Abomasnow is, stats-wise, very effective. 132 Attacking stats makes it unpredictable, and Ice / Grass coverage along with Fighting and Ground coverage, punches holes in things. 90 / 105 / 105 defenses are also very good. Snow Warning is also nice to have, changing the weather and adding some extra damage against checks and prey. However, it has a terrible Speed stat of 30. While it "wins weather wars", this slow Speed stat leaves it open to a lot of attacks, of which there are many that are Super Effective against Ice / Grass. It is also, unfortunately, weak to hazards (including 2x to SR). Mega Abomasnow has found a niche on Trick Room teams, and underestimating its power can lead to a lot of unexpected KO's, but unless a team is heavily tailored around Mega Abomasnow, it's going to be very hard to use correctly.
  
• 11: Mega Aerodactyl: "I wanna go fast". And this thing goes fast. Blazing 150 Speed is only beaten by Deoxys-S, which is outstanding. It has strong Rock STAB and can even use its Flying STAB, as weak as it is BP-wise, to good effect. It has coverage moves in the Fangs thanks to Tough Claws as well. Can act as a stallbreaker with Roost, a revenge killer or a late-game cleaner. However, its attacking options are either unreliable, weak or situational, leaving much to be desired in a Mega Evolution. It can't get by most dedicated Physical tanks in the tier either. It's a decent Pokemon, but not a great one.
• 12: Mega Manetric: Mega Manetric is really fast, hitting 135 Speed. Intimidate is a great ability, and having Electric typing is nice against all of the Flying STAB being thrown around in the tier. It has neat Fire coverage as well, which is pretty unique. However, 75 / 80 / 80 defenses are just okay. Its pre-Mega form is even weaker, meaning that the Electric moves it tries to come in on could be met with strong coverage moves instead, 2HKO'ing or even OHKO'ing the dog. 135 Special Attack is nice, but not amazing. It just often doesn't do enough to warrant a position on teams, and its damage output is surprisingly unsatisfying. It's an average Pokemon on the surface, and there are just far better Megas out there than this one.

 

[Swamp Link]

• 12: Mega Manetric: Mega Manetric is really fast, hitting 135 Speed. Intimidate is a great ability, and having Electric typing is nice against all of the Flying STAB being thrown around in the tier. It has neat Fire coverage as well, which is pretty unique. However, 75 / 80 / 80 defenses are just okay. Its pre-Mega form is even weaker, meaning that the Electric moves it tries to come in on could be met with strong coverage moves instead, 2HKO'ing or even OHKO'ing the dog. 135 Special Attack is nice, but not amazing. It just often doesn't do enough to warrant a position on teams, and its damage output is surprisingly unsatisfying. It's an average Pokemon on the surface, and there are just far better Megas out there than this one.

I think you're selling Mega Manectric very short and missing the point of what makes it such a truly excellent Mega. Mega Manectric has a great speed tier that allows it to force out and deal with a lot of the frailer pokemon. Its damage output, while not destructive is sufficient for revenge killing weakened targets and cleaning up late game. But the offensive traits aren't what give Manectric its value. 75/80/80 is passable bulk, augmented by its great abilty in Intimidate. Intimidate + Volt Switch provides a great pivot and a lot of utility for many teams. It can come in on something, neuter the threat, and then gain chip damage and momentum and it wears down teams very quickly. This is what makes it quite effective on offensive or balanced teams.

Also, Heliolisk is not really a weather pokemon. People will look at its ability roster and think "Oh, this is a pokemon made to function in weather, that must be its niche" but it's not. Heliolisk functions best as a generic electric-type pivot that distinguishes itself through an ability to come in on most bulky waters with impunity due to Dry Skin. This immunity allows it to avoid being worn down and be a great way to deal with bulky waters, while getting chip damage on something like Chansey that may come in with stealth rock and volt switch damage, and then going into a fighting type that can force it out again, or something along these lines. It's just that it works very well as a pivot, preferably with some kind of choice set, although Life Orb is also usable.

Thirdly, can we please ban Sand Veil/Snow Cloak. I'm not sure why OU doesn't have them ban, but it's just dumb evasion stuff and even though it hasn't been abused that much, it's just not competitive and it doesn't add anything to the metagame other than luck. There's no good reason to keep them around, they're certainly not making the metagame healthier in anyway.

 

[SolCalibre]

Slightly off topic here, just looking at the quote underneath your post, it says "11: Mega Aerodactyl: "I wanna go fast". And this thing goes fast. Blazing 150 Speed is only beaten by Deoxys-S, which is outstanding. It has strong Rock STAB and can even use its Flying STAB, as weak as it is BP-wise, to good effect. It has coverage moves in the Fangs thanks to Strong Jaws as well."

Note the last bolded sentence which is incorrect, it's Tough Claws.
Regardless, it still does boost its power because of physical contact but those who read it (and just happen to be new) will think that Aerial Ace will not be boosted because of the incorrectly stated ability, that said:

On topic: I never figured that Kyurem-B was ever UU worthy, it's too good for the tier. Imo, it's under-appreciated just because in the face of the irrelevant uber counterpart, maybe there's no point using it at all. And despite the shallow movepool it has, I say it has just about enough to work with.

I mean, you have roost, earth power and hidden power outside the natural moveset. What more do you need?

Also, Heliolisk is not really a weather pokemon. People will look at its ability roster and think "Oh, this is a pokemon made to function in weather, that must be its niche" but it's not. Heliolisk functions best as a generic electric-type pivot that distinguishes itself through an ability to come in on most bulky waters with impunity due to Dry Skin. This immunity allows it to avoid being worn down and be a great way to deal with bulky waters, while getting chip damage on something like Chansey that may come in with stealth rock and volt switch damage, and then going into a fighting type that can force it out again, or something along these lines. It's just that it works very well as a pivot, preferably with some kind of choice set, although Life Orb is also usable.

I'd also like to point out that because of the fact it can learn Surf naturally and has higher speed than raichu, it displaces the niche that said pokemon used to have relegating it to a physical option.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

On topic: I never figured that Kyurem-B was ever UU worthy, it's too good for the tier. Imo, it's under-appreciated just because in the face of the irrelevant uber counterpart, maybe there's no point using it at all. And despite the shallow movepool it has, I say it has just about enough to work with.

It's because most players suck. Tiers are based on usage, and when the ladder is mostly comprised of idiots you get trash like Donphan and Smeargle staying OU but strictly useful Pokemon like Manaphy, Kyu-B, Latias, and Deo-S/D going to UU.

Thanks for bans by the way. Deoxys next please.

 

[DTC]

Despite the current UU metagame being so unfriendly towards it with all of the powerful offensive threats like Thundurus-T and Bisharp, I've found CroCune to be pretty effective (annoying at the very least).

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
- Scald

DP sleep mechanics are very friendly towards CroCune, and Scald was a huge addition for this set. If Suicune isn't able to sweep at that particular time (which unfortunately happens a lot), it's fine, because Suicune can still be a tanky motherfucker that spreads a lot of burns. Even though 100 / 115 / 115 bulk isn't what it used to be, it's still able to set up easily against a lot of Pokemon and can survive even STAB'd super effective hits with impunity at +1.

I wouldn't say CroCune is amazing right now, but it's definitely a Pokemon to watch out for later on. Note that the banning of Kyurem-B and Manaphy will help it a decent bit.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I think more people should use Hippo. Specially Defensive Hippo, imo, is better than Rhyperior. You lose some overall bulk, but the ability to set up rocks, phase, recovery, and hit hard with EQ is great.

Truthfully, I think pokes such as Latias are kind of balanced in UU. It doesn't have immediate power right off the bat, so much so that it is over-powering (Compared to Latios and Offensive Ky-B), and the buff to Dark types and the nerf to Dragon (1 immunity to deal with), I feel like Lati can be dealt with decently.

Dark types tho, definitely taking out teams, easy. Every garbage team I make, I have to consider Bisharp when I make it. Sharpedo too, big underrated threat.

Also, I've been seeing a lot of Bulky Krooks, throws me off from the good ol' Scarf days. I feel like some things should be banned, but overall, the meta is no where near as bad as I thought it would be.

 

[TPO3]

^Hippo seems really good from the games I've seen it in. Setting up passive damage is nice, it sets up Stealth Rock, and it can phaze. It also gives a massive headache to a lot of physical threats thanks to its STAB and its ability to phaze. Things like Bisharp, Mega Aggron, ScarfCross, Metagross, etc. all find their jobs become a lot more difficult when Hippo is present. Specially Defensive Hippo can also tank things like LO Latias's Draco Meteor, and just Slack Off the damage like it never even happened, although it should still be weary about switching directly into Special Attacks too often.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

^Hippo seems really good from the games I've seen it in. Setting up passive damage is nice, it sets up Stealth Rock, and it can phaze. It also gives a massive headache to a lot of physical threats thanks to its STAB and its ability to phaze. Things like Bisharp, Mega Aggron, ScarfCross, Metagross, etc. all find their jobs become a lot more difficult when Hippo is present. Specially Defensive Hippo can also tank things like LO Latias's Draco Meteor, and just Slack Off the damage like it never even happened, although it should still be weary about switching directly into Special Attacks too often.

Sean, mah boiiii, get on skype. It's yer boi, Jason :]

And yeah, Specially Defensive Hippo is a threat. Personally, I run enough physical bulk to be as bulky as physically defensive Mew, then the rest in special defense paired up with specially defensive Zapdos and CroCune. The core is too stallish for most teams. CroCune should be a big reason why people run phasing moves on every team.

 

[Wisdomseyes]

I am confused as to why Mawile, Pinser, and Khangaskhan made the "ban from UU list"

Mawile and Pinser I can understand because of the mega-stones (which I feel are the things that should be ban, since both of these pokemon are not UU or OU worthy without them in many cases) but Khangaskan? Khangaskanite was already ban, so.... shouldn't it still be looked at like an NU pokemon, ssince it didn't really gain anything from this generation and no changes that I can think of offhand have boosted it to the point where it can be considered OU worthy.

Mawile possibly I am being hard on, since the typing change makes mawile useable, but the list feels like it is assuming mega evolutions, which I don't feel should be a factor.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

because mawile, pinsir and kangaskhan were used enough in ou to make the ou cutoff...? plus kanga's usage was based off 3-months stats, and it clearly was used as fuck in november. megas aren't tiered separately from their base forms, the sole exception being that if a mega is deemed overpowered the stone will be banned instead.

kanga will probably go down after january since her usage will hit rock bottom anyway. not that she can really do much in uu...

 

[kd24]

stall is yet again king on this ladder :/ ill just talk about good pokemon

with chansey unbanned in any meta that isnt ou or ubers, you should be using it aye? toxic softboiled wish stoss just dont choke like me in spl ;_;

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Avalanche
- Roar

is super good, you put it with spikes and sr and just start roaring stuff around...it completely hardwalls kyurem-b (even tho he'll be banned soon) and actually just recover tanks everything, you could even use toxic over roar just because how good its recover actually is

hippo + mew is still really good too, add a spiker (im using roserade) and then try to cover weird stuff with your last mon - mew covers mega medicham so im currently trying out mega manectric because of crawdaunt (which should be insta banned) but im honestly finding a lot of the hyped mons to be overrated when they dont have a great supporting cast...just too many good stall mons to choose from, even ghosts like gourgeist and jellicent or bulky mons like latias

 

[Srn]

I think doublade should be mentioned for its SD set that plays a little like aegislash, just without KS.
something like this
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball/Iron Head

This set is really really bulky and has good coverage, despite having no recovery. Eviolite boosts your defenses to godly levels and you can take a ton of different attacks as you set up. He hits around 700 attack after an SD and with shadow sneak he can clean up teams quite easily. However, it is a lot weaker on the special side and can't take too many hits there. Overall something to watch out for in the UU meta right now.

 

[Rotosect]

With Kyurem-B gone the next best thing is regular Kyurem.
While it lacks an overakill attack stat, Teravolt and Fusion Bolt, its special attack is actually higher and and it's one of the best Pressure abusers in the game.
Kyurem can use Chansey as set up bait and run its old SubHoneClaws set (the one that got it banned from UU in Gen 5) and Specs Flash Cannon can actually 2HKO Florges, meaning it still doesn't have true counters.
Or instead of compromising, Kyurem can run a LO mixed attack set with Iron Head and Outrage and beat both of them.

So, the potential sets are:
-SubRoost
-Sub + 3 attacks
-Specs
-Scarf
-SubHoneClaws
-LO mixed attacker

Looks very promising.

 

[Pyritie]

It's because most players suck. Tiers are based on usage, and when the ladder is mostly comprised of idiots you get trash like Donphan and Smeargle staying OU but strictly useful Pokemon like Manaphy, Kyu-B, Latias, and Deo-S/D going to UU.

It probably doesn't help that most of those "sucky" players don't even realise that you could use him in OU, since he is a box legend after all

And personally I'd just feel dirty using him

 

[PK Gaming]

Sucker Punch/Knock Off Dark-types absolutely run this tier

I'm starting to think that Mega Heracross is a necessary evil

 

[alexwolf]

Max HP / max Def RestTalk Mega Hera is great right now, as it checks the annoying Dark type users and their pesky Knock Off. Chesnaught is another of the best checks to Bisharp / Crawdaunt / Sharpedo atm and a great Pokemon in general, doesn't mind that much the loss of lefties from Knock Off, and can check even dangerous special attackers thanks to its ability (Mega Blastoise and Cofagrigus for example).

What have been people using to deal with Mega Hera btw? It's easily one of the strongest mons in the tier, and i am really struggling to find good checks to it. Doublade and Cofagrigus work, but both are not that hard to wear down or take advantage of, especially with Dark-types being everywhere....

 

[Seiterman]

What have been people using to deal with Mega Hera btw? It's easily one of the strongest mons in the tier, and i am really struggling to find good checks to it. Doublade and Cofagrigus work, but both are not that hard to wear down or take advantage of, especially with Dark-types being everywhere....

Crobat can come in on anything except Rock Blast, taking a maximum of 28% from Pin Missile (with 252 HP EV's.) Once in, Crobat either forces a switch or immediately OHKO's with Brave Bird regardless of investment. Crobat doesn't need to give up any of its utility as a Stallbreaker to do this, so it can accomplish other things still.

Staraptor has problems coming in on many of Hera's moves, taking a minimum of 41.6% from Bullet Seed if you're not using Intimidate. Using Intimidate, you can survive switching into Close Combat w/o SR (albeit barely, and you want a better plan than that.) If in, it easily revenge kills Hera if nothing else. Staraptor is kind of interesting because it has Close Combat for the Dark and Steel-type threats. However, Bisharp's Sucker Punch still cripples Staraptor and outright OHKO's if he gets a Defiant boost from Intimidate. Staraptor is an interesting, albeit risky as hell, answer to both Heracross and the dominating Dark-types.

I looked into Hawlucha, but my God does his movepool have problems. He can actually come in any of Hera's attacks provided you don't mind an utterly crippled Hawlucha and SR isn't up, but Rock Blast is an OHKO after SR. Otherwise, the main issue is that his Flying STAB's suck. You can OHKO Hera easily with Acrobatics (itemless or boosted,) Aerial Ace (with at least a Sky Plate Boost,) Bounce (regardless of item,) or Sky Attack, but I think the fact that those are his options should be telling. I had hopes, but they were crushed.

Some other Flying-types that can come in on some moves and OHKO include Noivern w/ Hurricane, Yanmega, Tornadus, Tornadus-T and Mega Aerodactyl. They can switch in on things other than Rock Blast with varying degrees of efficiency and OHKO with Flying STAB. They're not the greatest of checks, but they're there.

Jolly Metagross outspeeds uninvested Heracross and 2HKO's with Zen Headbutt. You know, for what that's worth.

A few of the Megas can outspeed and potentially OHKO, but Heracross has at least one move to OHKO every other Mega (or come really close with no chance of being OHKO's back,) in his standard moveset.

... so yeah, I see why you're struggling to find good checks. Crobat looks like the strongest choice of the stuff I looked at. I'll have to try some stuff in UU in my free time.

 

[Patrick1088]

Woohoo no more kyurem b or drizzle! Now i think uu should havs some more balance!
Deoxys is annoying but with thr new megas coupled with a latias as a defog user i think deo d may be more manageable imo