Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Sylveon does add one more to the list of things that can switch into Specs Keldeo repeatedly. Goodra doesn't do too well against secret sword though.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 279-328 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

On the other hand, he does have trouble getting past other new stuff, such as Azumarill with its fairy typing (can't switch in with stealth rock, but can tank a hydro pump and OHKO back with play rough).

I would put keldeo somewhere in the middle, around A- (does that exist? there's nothing in it right now).

Honestly, the number of things that can force it out is depressingly large. Since Sacred Sword doesn't have great coverage, it'll mostly be spamming hydro pump, but there's a ton of pokemon that resist that too. Pokemon that completely wall it include, Dragonite (not icy wind, but that's hardly what he want's to be locked into), Azumarill, Slowbro/king, Mega Venusaur, Tangrowth, Toxicroak, Celebi, Trevenant, latias, Jellicent, Tentacruel, and Sylveon, so I think raising it to A+ is ridiculous. If we have an A-, I think it should be there, but if its between B+ and A, I'd say B+ is more logical. It's just not as effective this gen as the other A's. Maybe if it had something better than icy wind for coverage. Otherwise I'd say the fast specially attacking water type should always be greninja

 

[effyouzion]

Honestly with the increase in Knock Off usage, I'd think Blissey would be on par with or above Chansey rather than the other way around. There's plenty of things threatening to rob it of its Eviolite and neuter its bulk, whereas Blissey losing Leftovers isn't such a death sentence.

Chansey would never switch into anything that has knock off so it's kind of irrelevant. If you play well, Chansey won't lose its item to knock off. Trick Rotom is much more of a threat.

 

[LoDart210]

Honestly, the number of things that can force it out is depressingly large. Since Sacred Sword doesn't have great coverage, it'll mostly be spamming hydro pump, but there's a ton of pokemon that resist that too. Pokemon that completely wall it include, Dragonite (not icy wind, but that's hardly what he want's to be locked into), Azumarill, and Sylveon, so I think raising it to A+ is ridiculous. If we have an A-, I think it should be there, but if its between B+ and A, I'd say B+ is more logical. It's just not as effective this gen as the other A's

And toxicroak!

 

[Jaguar360]

But what coverage moves could it make use of? Crunch? The elemental fangs? Fly?

I'm kind of late to respond, but I just want to say that Aerial Ace reaches 117 power with Tough Claws and STAB. The Elemental Fangs, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Iron Head reach 84 power and 104 respectively. Then, if there is a Pokebank transferred Aerodactyl, it also gets Aqua Tail for 117 power. So Mega Aerodactyl actually has a lot of powerful coverage options to abuse.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I'm kind of late to respond, but I just want to say that Aerial Ace reaches 117 power with Tough Claws and STAB. The Elemental Fangs, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Iron Head reach 84 power and 104 respectively. Then, if there is a Pokebank transferred Aerodactyl, it also gets Aqua Tail for 117 power. So Mega Aerodactyl actually has a lot of powerful coverage options to abuse.

If only it could get some powerful STAB options to abuse

 

[I2edShift]

Dragon Dance salamence is too frail to setup on most of the tier, cant break through fairies, talonflame bait, easily revenge killed by scarfers etc. Exactly the inverse with charizard and dragonite. Charizard is extremely hard to revenge kill due to its typing, doesnt give af about fairies, has a powerful stab that doesnt lock in, gets life orb boosts without suffering recoil, its just fucking amazing. Dragonite has an automatic dual screen support just by being at full health which allows it to setup in pratically anything and is a pain to revenge kill, extremespeed shits on talonflame regardless of your health. Mixmence has absolutely nothing on kyurem b sexy mixed boltbeam coverage and mega garchomp's great non lockable stab earthquake. Theyre both bulky af as well meaning stall teams are going to be hard pressed to take them down with weak attacks and hit has hard as life orb salamence without recoil. Scarf mence just sucks, no need to explain again. Seriously, just no, this thing is so fucking bad now, either C+ or B- rank, anything beyond this is stupid.

?????????

Salamence is not a Mega Pokémon, nor does it carry base Charizard's x4 SR weakness. Who the hell goes mixed with ZardX? Nobody, it's a waste of the ability that makes it good in the first place or screws your coverage options.

Salamence is not a Mega Pokémon, is faster than MegaChomp, and has more SpA through Life Orb.

Salamence is faster than Kyurem, doesn't have an awful Ice typing, and only has 10 less SpA at base.

Seriously, stop bringing up Megas. They are all different and have different pros & cons. Salamence doesn't use your Mega slot and carries different pros & cons to everything you've listed. We get DD is outclassed... We got that a week ago. MixMence works just fine, and it's not that hard to remove a fairy or have an answer for Talonflame.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

thing you said. Now that that's done, lets focus on it. Diggersby is by no means a defensive presence like lando-t is, you're right. But lando-t isn't that strong when you make it a diggersby, it has another role. In this meta where Aegislash is a S ranked mon and it's on almost every single team out there, you'd think a more reliable check to that kind of mon would be more applicable on a team, right? Also i'll add that Diggersby is, in my opinion, at least B level. I never said anything like a+ or S ranked, where lando-t i believe falls. But on an offensively oriented team that can appreciate hard hitting mons with great stabs, Diggersby fits the role easily. Due to its frailty, it is not S or A+ ranked nor is it A ranked yet. But I feel that you touched on the points to at least make it a B ranked threat in that not only can it counter one of the most prevalent threats in the metagame and has two very reliable and usable stabs, but it also has access to a hard hitting priority move. At least B rank please.

Check, not counter. Aegislash 2HKOs with uninvested Sacred Sword.

What I said completes the C rank's criteria.

 

[Sandoori]

Chansey would never switch into anything that has knock off so it's kind of irrelevant. If you play well, Chansey won't lose its item to knock off. Trick Rotom is much more of a threat.

Fair point, Knock Off's distribution among mixed attackers is a lot lower than I thought it was. Mega Venusaur and genies are probably all that could viably run it; Mega Venu would prefer EQ for dealing with steel types (Knock Off didn't even make it into December's usage stats), and...well, I'm not going to pretend to know anything about genies but I see Tornadus forms in particular saw usage of it.

I'd agree with B+ for Blissey in light of this.

 

[Magcargo]

Salamence is not a Mega Pokémon, nor does it carry base Charizard's x4 SR weakness.

Charizard X has a better typing then salamence, often carries Roost thanks to it receiving perfect coverage with its STAB attacks alone, and gets essentially what is an LO boost without the recoil, which mitigates its base form's SR weakness.

Who the hell goes mixed with ZardX? Nobody, it's a waste of the ability that makes it good in the first place or screws your coverage options.

Nobody goes mixed with zard because it already beats most steel-types thanks to STAB Flare Blitz, which is infinitely better than Salamence's Fire Blast thanks to Charizard X being able to boost its power with Dragon Dance. Hell if you really wanted to, you could run the same mixed set that Salamence could with Charizard X (with Overheat instead of Draco Meteor) and it would still be more effective thanks to zard's lack of priority weakness, lack of LO recoil, and STAB on Fire Attacks.

Salamence is not a Mega Pokémon, is faster than MegaChomp, and has more SpA through Life Orb.

Except That M-Garchomp actually Wallbreaks better thanks to mediocre Special Attack in its Base Form (helps lure physical walls), lack of LO recoil, Stealth Rock resistance, Greater bulk, and immunity to Sand damage.

Salamence is the definition of a B-/C+ Pokemon. It can be effective given the right support, but there is a hard reason to justify using it over better Pokemon like Garchomp, Dragonite, Zygarde, Kyurem-B and Charizard X.

 

[TheMohZone]

I hate this Mentality that if it's outclassed by megas it doesn't matter. So what? It's still outclassef, megas are still pokemon.and if your outclassed by some of the best megas in the game it's a problem. In fact when soo much stuff does your job better it's a problem. Dnite and ZardX outclass Mence as DDers with dragon type, Heck zard runs a better mixed set with a higher Spec Attack and stab on a lot of it's coverage, it just doesn't need to go mixed. MegaTTar s and both forms of Dos are better DDers as well, DDmence has no place in OU it's mixed sets are done better by things like Kyube, Chomp ect meaning menace is completely out done by megas or no. So what if its outdone, but its by a mega. Does it make a difference, especially when they are some of the easiest megas to just slap on a team. No. The same way we discuss megas like Alakasam being outdone by regular pokes, we can talk about megas outclassing normal pokes. Legendaries are meant to be above Normal pokes, yet beyond the box legends they aren't, we are megas any different?

 

[Rotosect]

Salamence is faster than Kyurem, doesn't have an awful Ice typing, and only has 10 less SpA at base.

You make it sound like Salamence has a better type than Kyurem - it doesn't. That "awful" ice type gives Kyurem an extremely useful STAB and defensively it's no longer the burden it used to be thanks to Defog and the drop in usage of fighting types. Mence doesn't benefit from its flying type in any way since it has no STAB to use and everything with a ground move is going to carry an ice, rock or dragon move too. B+ rank at best.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

ENOUGH WITH THE SALAMENCE!

You make it sound like Salamence has a better type than Kyurem - it doesn't. That "awful" ice type gives Kyurem an extremely useful STAB and defensively it's no longer the burden it used to be thanks to Defog and the drop in usage of fighting types. Mence doesn't benefit from its flying type in any way since it has no STAB to use and everything with a ground move is going to carry an ice, rock or dragon move too. B+ rank at best.

But I will talk about Kyurem. What is this useful STAB? Kyurem's ice move pool is pathetic, maybe worse than Salamence's flying movepool. Flying at least gives clean switch ins on EQ and immunity to spikes.

Now if we can stop comparing Salamence to Dragonite, Charizard, and Kyurem-B, that'd be great. B- (C+, whatever it is. The exact rank doesn't matter that much, as long as it communicates the general viability) is a fine place for Salamence, and further discussion is pretty pointless

 

[Schpoonman]

STAB Ice Beam off base 120 is pretty fucking noteworthy. I don't know about you, but most Kyurem-Bs never gave me too much trouble in Gen V. The ones that did were either Scarfed or the specially-based mixed set, and lemme tell you, trying to wall that Ice Beam fucking sucked.

 

[Bent1ey]

Agreed, Kyurem-B's Ice Beam -and Blizzard under hail, if that's still a thing outside doubles- is pretty valid of an argument, and cannot be compared with Salamence's... Fly?... Hidden Power Flying?

Mixed sets are the best for Kyurem-B in my experience.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Ice beam is good on his sub/3 attacks set, but comparing Salamence to that set makes less sense than flipping pancakes with a spatula made out of paper (tried that freshman year, it was fun, but not efficient). Blizzard's not even worth mentioning as hail is pretty much nonexistent. On his choice sets, you're pretty much stuck with either decreasing one of his other stats (not as much of a problem on sub sets) for mixed power, or running an ice beam that's only barely stronger than Salamence's Aerial Ace, weaker after a moxie boost.

 

[Punchshroom]

Ice is still a better offensive type than Flying in terms of super effective coverage, which makes Kyu-B's Ice Beam loads more threatening than Salamence's silly Aerial Ace (which cannot sweep even after Moxie boosts). As far as I can see, Salamence literally cannot use a DD set without being outclassed by its fellow Dragons: Dragonite has Multiscale and E-Speed; Zygarde has Ground STAB; XZard has Tough Claws, Fire STAB and burn immunity; even Haxorus has Mold Breaker to ignore stuff like Levitate and Unaware. All of them have their own ways to handle Fairies: either with alternate STAB, super effective (and accurate) attacks like Poison Jab, or in Dragonite's case Weakness Policy.

As for Salamence, I think I'd put it in B-. It faces too much competition with other Dragons in anything it does: DD Mence is often outperformed by Dragonite, XZard, and even Zygarde; Choiced sets compete with Garchomp which has another form of spammable STAB and has a better speed tier; Latios and Goodra have better offensive stats / defensive stats respectively than special attacking Mence; even wallbreaking sets compete with Hydreigon, also due to the latter's alternate STAB. The only set I can think of that isn't outclassed by other Dragons is some sort of special attacking Intimidate + Roost set which Dragonite cannot pull off as well. Don't get me wrong, Salamence can still be effective, but I don't see much reason to use it over other Dragons.

Kyurem-B on the other hand remains as one of the most difficult Dragons or attackers in general to wall. Ice-Electric-Ground coverage can threaten a ton of shit, and Teravolt helps a lot when it comes to taking down stuff like Rotom-W and Mega-Venusaur. Even the dual-typed Fairies cannot stop Kyu-B safely due to Fusion Bolt frying their asses. It is still very good at its job (wallbreaking), while only a couple of Pokemon have made it a bit harder for it this time round. The increase in bulky offense helped present Kyu-B with favorable matchups, though its typing still sucks for it if faced against offensive teams. I'd put Kyu-B in B+.

 

[Rotosect]

Kyurem-B is definitely A+ material.
It was A+ in BW2 and the metagame has shifted in its favor, not against. All the common OU fairies are slower and either have subpar physical bulk or a secondary type that makes them weak to its main moves, so they're a non-factor.
It still doesn't have any true counter, even its bulkiest checks like Eviolite Chansey and physically defensive Clefable can be taken down with its CB set (though Sub+3 attacks and LO are definitely better).
Fighting types have dropped in usage and SR can be removed much more easily now. It also gained the perfect partner in Aegislash, who resists everything Kyurem-B is weak to and can easily deal with its checks, such as Chansey and Terrakion.
Kyurem-B's partnership with Aegislash is very similiar to how Keldeo used to benefit from Tyranitar in BW2, so it should definitely be taken in consideration.

Many defensive pokemon in OU rely on abilities that are nullified by Teravolt - the importance of hitting Mega Venusaur with a SE Ice Beam and Rotom-W with a SE Earth Power cannot be understated and no other pokemon besides Kyurem-B can do that.
It's the ultimate wallbreaker in OU and no other pokemon in the tier even comes close, justifying the A+ rank.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. (...) Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

There is nothing in A- or S-rank that outclasses Kyu-B at its role, so B is definitely too low.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Kyurem-B is definitely A+ material.
It was A+ in BW2 and the metagame has shifted in its favor, not against. All the common OU fairies are slower and either have subpar physical bulk or a secondary type that makes them weak to its main moves, so they're a non-factor.
It still doesn't have any true counter, even its bulkiest checks like Eviolite Chansey and physically defensive Clefable can be taken down with its CB set (though Sub+3 attacks and LO are definitely better).
Fighting types have dropped in usage and SR can be removed much more easily now. It also gained the perfect partner in Aegislash, who resists everything Kyurem-B is weak to and can easily deal with its checks, such as Chansey and Terrakion.
Kyurem-B's partnership with Aegislash is very similiar to how Keldeo used to benefit from Tyranitar in BW2, so it should definitely be taken in consideration.

Many defensive pokemon in OU rely on abilities that are nullified by Teravolt - the importance of hitting Mega Venusaur with a SE Ice Beam and Rotom-W with a SE Earth Power cannot be understated and no other pokemon besides Kyurem-B can do that.
It's the ultimate wallbreaker in OU and no other pokemon in the tier even comes close, justifying the A+ rank.





There is nothing in A- or S-rank that outclasses Kyu-B at its role, so B is definitely too low.

Agreed. The negatives of having fairies make outrage unviable are balanced by Defog and the fighting nerf making ice less terrible than it was. He also doesn't have to worry about dragons outspeeding and OHKOing as much either, thanks to fairies. If there's an unwallable pokemon its Kyurem-B.

 

[escarlata]

With regards to Salamence, it actually does have some qualities that do not leave it completely outclassed by the other Dragons, and in that regard, I think it can be befitting of B Rank.

Hydro Pump
Thanks to Hydro Pump, Salamence is in fact the only DDancer* that is able to KO Landorus-T if it switches in on Dragon Claw, something that no other DDancer can claim. While other Dragons can simply run HP Ice, most of them have more important attacks to run for that slot and cannot afford to run an attack to get past Landorus-T (Charizard needs Roost to counteract Flare Blitz, or EQ for Heatran; Dragonite needs Roost to preserve Multiscale for WP). Additionally, it also gives a way of breaking past Balloon-Tran, which other DDancers have problem against. While Salamence certainly does not sweep as effectively as the other DDancers, what is has over them is that is can attempt the sweep earlier, which is made easier with the combination of Moxie nullifying Intimidate, and Hydro Pump to get past common threats for other DDancers.
*Mentions of DDancers in the paragraph excludes Gyarados.

Ability
While facing competition with a lot of other Mix Dragons, Mix Mence does have 2 huge benefits that give it a perk over them, in the form of its 2 abilities, which are both fantastic on it. After a single Moxie boost, uninvested Mixmence has more Atk than 252+ Kyurem-B, which allows it to punch holes more easily than any of the other Dragons. Unlike Hydreigon, which is pretty much set-up bait for dangerous Megas (notably Pinsir, who pretty much gets a free SD against a -2 Hydreigon) after it kills something with Draco Meteor, Salamence does not automatically force itself out in doing so. Intimidate is also a godsent for Salamence regardless if you are running DD or Mixmence, pretty much self explanatory.

Overall, while Salamence certainly does not have the raw power of other Dragons, what is has over them is sheer versatility, which helps him accomplish his role effectively, befitting of B rank.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

Bolded is what Salamence fulfils.

 

[jazzys]

Why did mandibuzz and Bisharp jump soo many tiers and usage in Gen 6 compared to Gen 5?

 

[Sturdynips]

With regards to Salamence, it actually does have some qualities that do not leave it completely outclassed by the other Dragons, and in that regard, I think it can be befitting of B Rank.

Hydro Pump
Thanks to Hydro Pump, Salamence is in fact the only DDancer* that is able to KO Landorus-T if it switches in on Dragon Claw, something that no other DDancer can claim. While other Dragons can simply run HP Ice, most of them have more important attacks to run for that slot and cannot afford to run an attack to get past Landorus-T (Charizard needs Roost to counteract Flare Blitz, or EQ for Heatran; Dragonite needs Roost to preserve Multiscale for WP). Additionally, it also gives a way of breaking past Balloon-Tran, which other DDancers have problem against. While Salamence certainly does not sweep as effectively as the other DDancers, what is has over them is that is can attempt the sweep earlier, which is made easier with the combination of Moxie nullifying Intimidate, and Hydro Pump to get past common threats for other DDancers.
*Mentions of DDancers in the paragraph excludes Gyarados.

Ability
While facing competition with a lot of other Mix Dragons, Mix Mence does have 2 huge benefits that give it a perk over them, in the form of its 2 abilities, which are both fantastic on it. After a single Moxie boost, uninvested Mixmence has more Atk than 252+ Kyurem-B, which allows it to punch holes more easily than any of the other Dragons. Unlike Hydreigon, which is pretty much set-up bait for dangerous Megas (notably Pinsir, who pretty much gets a free SD against a -2 Hydreigon) after it kills something with Draco Meteor, Salamence does not automatically force itself out in doing so. Intimidate is also a godsent for Salamence regardless if you are running DD or Mixmence, pretty much self explanatory.

Overall, while Salamence certainly does not have the raw power of other Dragons, what is has over them is sheer versatility, which helps him accomplish his role effectively, befitting of B rank.


Bolded is what Salamence fulfils.

This makes no sense. If Salamence uses Hydro Pump, then it forgoes Fire Blast. As it is, Salamence is one of the only physical Dragons/sweepers who can reliably get past Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Genesect etc. It needs Fire Blast. Using Hydro Pump makes Mence even worse, if such a thing were possible in the current meta.

Moving away from aggressively mediocre Pokemon, SmashBrosBrawl mentioned Tornadus-T, and i definitely agree that it belongs in B rank. Its speed tier is excellent, and as mentioned, Regen + uturn is incredible. Lack of perma rain obviously hurts its Hurricane spam, but it easily fits into B, probably B+. It also gets Knock Off to hurt Aegislash switch-ins.

 

[KztxL7]

Why did mandibuzz and Bisharp jump soo many tiers and usage in Gen 6 compared to Gen 5?

Dark is a much better typing offensive and defensive.
125 STAB Priority with Sucker Punch. (Bisharp)
Defiant on Bisharp.
Overcoat buffed on Mandibuzz.
Defog is great for clearing hazards/screens. (Mandibuzz)
Knock Off has gotten much stronger especially with Steel not resisting it.
Bisharp resists both Dark and Ghost.
Physical Defensive Mandibuzz is great in a heavy physically offensive metagame.

 

[Punchshroom]

This makes no sense. If Salamence uses Hydro Pump, then it forgoes Fire Blast. As it is, Salamence is one of the only physical Dragons/sweepers who can reliably get past Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Genesect etc. It needs Fire Blast. Using Hydro Pump makes Mence even worse, if such a thing were possible in the current meta.

Actually, Hydro Pump on DDMence does make sense. The other physical boosting Dragons consist of Dragonite, Zygarde, Garchomp, Haxorus, and XZard. Dragonite and Garchomp know Fire Punch / Fang while XZard obviously roasts these Pokemon, so Salamence is by no means unique with its Fire Blast. On the other hand, Hydro Pump does a hefty chunk to Landorus-T and Hippowdon, both of which are very common checks to Dragon-type boosters. By using Hydro Pump over Fire Blast, Salamence forgoes its Steel matchups for better bulky Ground-type matchups, so it looks like Salamence does have something over its fellow Dragon Dancers after all. I am still uncertain whether this is enough to bump it from B- to B for me though.

 

[Sturdynips]

Actually, Hydro Pump on DDMence does make sense. The other physical boosting Dragons consist of Dragonite, Zygarde, Garchomp, Haxorus, and XZard. Dragonite and Garchomp know Fire Punch / Fang while XZard obviously roasts these Pokemon, so Salamence is by no means unique with its Fire Blast. On the other hand, Hydro Pump does a hefty chunk to Landorus-T and Hippowdon, both of which are very common checks to Dragon-type boosters. By using Hydro Pump over Fire Blast, Salamence forgoes its Steel matchups for better bulky Ground-type matchups, so it looks like Salamence does have something over its fellow Dragon Dancers after all. I am still uncertain whether this is enough to bump it from B- to B for me though.

I worded my post a bit poorly, I meant to emphasise that Salamence itself loses coverage on all of those pokemon i listed. It goes from being checked by Landorus-T and Balloon Tran to being checked by the pokemon i listed, which is much worse, imo

 

[Molk]

Why did mandibuzz and Bisharp jump soo many tiers and usage in Gen 6 compared to Gen 5?

A combination of factors really, but one thing's for sure, they definitely are significantly better in x/y than they were in b/w, and those ranks and usage are well founded imo.

In Bisharp's case, most Steel-types lost their resistances to Dark and Ghost-type moves, making Bisharp's Dark-type STAB that much more potant, and dramatically reducing the amount of Pokemon that can actually wall its STAB combo (in fact it went from being resisted by almost every Steel-type to almost unresisted iirc lol) Ironically, because of Bisharp's secondary Dark-type, it just happens to be the only Steel-type Pokemon that still resists both Dark- and Ghost-type moves post nerf, which while not as significant as the STAB buff is still pretty nice. Secondly, Knock Off is now a 65 BP move normally, but gets boosted to 97.5 BP when the opponent has an item while simultaneously removing the item, making it a pretty potent move overall, and Bisharp is one of the best users of it, making it pretty annoying to switch into. Pretty much nothing enjoys taking a 97 BP STAB move from base 125 Attack that removes your item, especially defensive Pokemon that might rely on Leftovers for passive recovery. Lastly, Defiant got some nice buffs this generation, most notably giving Bisharp a free +2 boost when it switches into a defog because of the evasion drop that comes with the hazards clear, giving bisharp the ability to "block" the move. As the opponent has to choose between removing Stealth Rock etc or having to face off against a +2 Bisharp (which is of course terrifying given the Sucker Punch Knock Off combo and the Steel Nerf) Outside of Defog, Defiant makes Bisharp essentially immune to Intimidate from things such as Landorus-T, which is always valuable for a physical attacker, and a massive annoyance for sticky web teams as it gets a free +2 on switch in when the hazard is up.

Mandibuzz also benefits from the Steel-type nerf previously mentioned, as her Foul Play is no longer resisted by most of the pesky Steel-types out there, and because the steel nerf stripped so many Pokemon of their Ghost-type resistances, a bulky resistance to say Shadow Ball is that much more valuable, which Mandibuzz of course fits. Most notably, this means that Mandibuzz is one of the best Aegislash checks/counters in the entire game, taking pretty much nothing from anything the sword can throw at her, recovering off hp with roost, and wearing it down in return with Foul Play. Aside from that, the Defog Buff is great for Mandibuzz too, as she is one of the bulkiest and most consistent users of it in the game imo. The ability to remove hazards this easily makes Mandibuzz an excellent teammate to many great Pokemon such as Talonflame, Charizard Y, Charizard X, and Mega Pinsir, who are all very threatening Pokemon, but need Stealth Rock removed from the field to function as effectively as possible due to a crippling weakness to it.