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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Haxorous is always that dragon I remember hating to fight but forget why. He has many great qualities but some flaws set him back.
His speed tier is sadly not good enough for a dragon dancing dragon (that was fun). Char X has base 100 and is able to out speed even without, thus making it an easy defeat. Same goes for Salamence. Then you have Dragonite who is slower yes, but a free turn of set up makes him so much better than almost everyone which can be seen by his No. 1 Dragon in usage last Gen if I recall correctly.
Now he does get Mold Breaker which is truly a god send to him as firing off earthquakes on levitators and breaking sturdy is alot of fun. But sadly, he is lacking in one thing that almost every other offensive dragon has bar Salamence (who makes up for it in coverage slightly): dual stab.
Char X has the silly good Fire/Dragon combo and can not be burned, something Haxo is envious of dearly. Garchomp, while not a Ddancer, has Dragon/Ground, which is still silly good even if its walled by Togekiss and can not be paralyzed (although he sometimes wishes he could just not get burned). Dragonite is a little unique in its secondary stab of choice is special, which is the fear inducing Hurricane, and the WP sets make it even stronger.
He has the attack, the abilities, and great coverage moves to be useful, but is sadly outclassed by Salamence (the lowest ranking dragon in OU) due to lack of secondary Stab and not good enough speed (97 too slow? That really is just so silly but dragons are so dang competitive).
Thus if I had to rank him, it would be below Salamence, and that is not B sadly.
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- I'll have to agree that Megas should be ranked differently. I wasn't really advocating otherwise just trying to throw out the opinion that Megas might have to follow a different set of rules for ranking.
- I still can't agree that guessing a Charizard form is such a simple task. You yourself have even stated that you are not able to 100% tell what Mega Evolution a Charizard is and have to play a guessing game with the Charizard. And what in the world do you mean by neither of them are bulky enough for a bulky offensive team? Mega Charizard X has base 111 Defense while Mega Charizard Y has base 115 Special Defense. Have you ever seen how effective bulky DD Mega Charizard X is? Most teams are about balance and versatility? Tell me how Hyper Offense even fits the term balance. The fact of the matter is, being unable to correctly perceive what Mega Evolution is and risk losing/crippling one of your members is what makes Charizard such a relevant threat.
- Any above-average player can reach 2000+ easily. Anybody can guess what the form is since its 50/50. But as I've argued already, the risk is always present and can be game-changing at times. Having to lose your Hippowdon or Slowbro because you thought it was Mega Charizard X is a huge detriment to any team. So please. Let's be a little more mature and not be so quick to draw fire so quickly.
I don't think that Sheer Force Gatr has been released, i could be wrong though...
How do we know it has it then? O.O
Isn't it a dream world abillity?
Ethier way, It's possible with the way Poketransport is. You could Pokegen one, and transfer it, because clearly if people are able to transfer shinys with their DW abillity then Poketransport won't flag it (I assume since it doesn't flag the previous.
In fifth gen, the game was data mined, so we found out all the hidden abilities. This gen, you can tell what the hidden abilities are because the Pokemon at the battle Maison use them. That's also how we found out that Zapdos got static over lightningrod.
Well, wouldn't a unusable HA be a waste of data? I'd expect other pokemon had HA that were unotainable to, so thats more data wasted.
Stupid Trollfreak Dx.
And I can pokegen a wondertomb, does that mean it's legal now too?
We knew his HA was sheer force because B2&W2 were able to be decompiled and so we could see what all of the hidden abilities were.
Also poketransport's hack detection is a pile of piss. Hell, it's even possible to pokegen something in gen 5 that will say it came from gen 6, due to the way the game of origin number is set. And poketransport still won't care.
EDIT: It was unreleased, meaning they never added a way to get one off of the dream world. They might've intended to at some point but because they haven't and there's no other legal way to get one with sheer force ingame, you can't use it here.
No, I think you miss understood me. The simple fact that Fraligatr's HA is and actually abillity on him you can still transfer it (Again, I'd need to test it to be 100% sure but I've seen every other generations Starters with there HA on cartridge so yeah..)WonderTomb cannot be transferd because Wondergaurd isn't an abillity it actually has.
And yes I agree, it is really stupid. For the reason you stated Is why some Pokemon have a Kalos marking and you have to go check them in ambrett town to check if they are reall.
I know. Poketransfer only seems to check "is this an ability that this pokemon can have" but doesn't actually check whether that ability was ever released or not. I imagine this was so they don't have to keep patching it if they decide to release something new, but there's no excuse for the rest of its disappointingly bad hack detection.
But then Sheer force Fraligtr is possible. And not hard to make ethier...but does this mean Smogon count's it as illegal on him still? O.O because It is possible...
If there is no way to get one ingame without using pokegen or breeding from a parent who got the HA through pokegen, it's not allowed.
Think of it this way: if pokegen and all other hacking/cheating tools did not exist, would it be possible to get a sheer force feraligatr? No. That's why.
Well, that sucks. I hope he will get it eventually :/. It really would make him decent in OU I'd think....I don't think he can handle his generations OU meta game without it.
My understanding was that pokebank uses a more lenient hack check than the battle system; although it let's unreleased HA's through, such pokemon will be flagged if you attempt to engage in ranked battled with them, and you will be prevented from using them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that's how it works
Not to be rude, but a lot of pokemon can be viable if their HAs were released. So I think we should move on and start going back on-topic.
I saw a discussion about haxorus, as well as suicune vs. manaphy. Imo the topic of whether megas should be ranked differently should be discussed in a separate thread as it warrants its own discussion.
No, I believe breeding as long as they are Kalos bredb they are allowed. But I'm getting off topic so I'll just leave xD
Just want to nitpick here.
Salamence doesn't outclass haxorous because he is also a flying type. If anything, salamence's flying type is a liability. He has no flying coverage moves.
Salamence outclasses haxorous with a better speed stat and the ability to go mixed.
Well, it said RU, UU, OU where I looked. I thought Sheer force was released, so that's why I Posted this.
Investment in bulk could be viable ethier way, and It would still be somewhat Viable in OU but it does still boast some advantages over all of them (Maybe not crawdaunt). It doesn't have that annoying ×4 weakness to Eletric and isn't SR weak(Advantages over Gyarados) It doesn't have to loose 25%health (Sitrius berry make it around that for Azumarill) and it isn't walled as much by a few Pokemon.
A bulky set (even since sheer force is unrealeased) could work. It unlike Gyarados (With moxie instead of intimadate) it doesn't die to BB which should allow a bulky version set up (tho most Gyarados run Intimate so yeah).
Azumarill is walled harder by steels than Fraligtr.
Tho, I know without SF, it's probally not gonna rise up and will likely stay RU/UU.
I'm likely gonna give it a try without SF, Running a bulky set and then an offensive set. But yeah.
The only reason Feraligatr was viable last gen was because of permarain. With that, Swords Dance, Mystic Water, and possibly a Torrent boost, it was able to clean teams with Aqua Jet. This gen, it has basically no niche and is outclassed by Azumarill or Crawdaunt. There's no point in using it right now. Moving on, please.
Notice in my original post that I had said Salamence doesn't benefit from the secondary STAB, but for his coverage (which implied mixed sets). I had used Salamence's speed as an advantage right after I stated Char X's speed. I never once said Salamence outclassed Haxorous because it was flying type.
In which case, you'll have to excuse me. I must have misread. Otherwise, it seems we arguing the same thing at each other!
CB Talonflame 2HKOs anything that doesn't resist it's hit with Brave Bird. This calc means absolute jackshit.
Two dogs trying to chew on the same tail XD
Yet you do bring up one thing I had not bothered to mention; Haxorous does contain an almost great single typing which does give him some edges over the other dragons, but not much as he has only base 90 Def with 76 HP so it could be a liability even more.
EDIT: Scratch that....there really isn't any point in comparing him to yet another dragon.
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm nearly 100% sure the bolded is false. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sheer Force only boosts the power of mover that have a chance of status affliction, or something of the sort (moves with burn/paralysis/poison/etc. chance). It doesn't give a boost to moves that cause stat drops or negatively affect the user. For example, Flare Blitz gets a boost, but still maintains recoil. The boost comes from Flare Blitz' burn chance, not because it causes the user recoil damage.
I remember the days when we all thought Sheer Force was going to be super OP... Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
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