Pokémon Hydreigon

[ZcX]

Head smash could be a viable option for fairies since it has more power than steel wing and slighty better accuracy than iron tail, plus it gives him better coverage.

0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO guaranteed after stealth rock.
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 307-361 (82 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery some EV´s can be moved to attack to OHKO.
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 207-244 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 190-224 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 207-244 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also unlike Iron tail or Charge beam Head smash 2HKO all the fairies that pose a problem for him, except for carbink maybe but that thing doesn´t even OHKO Hydreigon with Moonblast

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Taking massive amounts of recoil when a recoil-less option already exists? No thanks.

 

[Xcreated]

With charge beam, if your lucky, after killing an azumarril you can possibly get a free boosted Draco meteor off and just be back to ur unboosted self. And facing an unboosted Draco meteor is already nerve wrecking enough

 

[Bramble Blast]

Taking massive amounts of recoil when a recoil-less option already exists? No thanks.

I agree with this. Unless you really need a certain fairy gone for your team's sweeper to sweep then yeah, go for a surprise head smash.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

Sigh. Running any "fairy hunting" attack weakens your coverage and leaves you guessing as to the EV spread of the targeted mon. And steel type moves of this nature still bounce off of Azumarill. Accept that Fairy is his bane and move on.

Finally, Head Smash is a completely nonviable option as it bounces off of specially defensive Sylveon (3HKO regardless of nature, 0 ev investment), the perfect target for this kind of shenanigan. And you take recoil in the process of trying to bash through it.

The 'surprise' does less damage than fugging Iron Tail

 

[Quaily]

that's what makes it a surprise. they will be surprised to see you doing something so dumb!

 

[mertyville]

IMO Flash Cannon is worth running. It hits almost anything for good amound of damage and lowers SpD. Sure, Fairies can easielly tank it, but it does more damage then both stab moves and not the low accuracy of Fire Blast or Focus Miss.

 

[SpaceFlare]

IMO Flash Cannon is worth running. It hits almost anything for good amound of damage and lowers SpD. Sure, Fairies can easielly tank it, but it does more damage then both stab moves and not the low accuracy of Fire Blast or Focus Miss.

Makes you incredibly susceptible to pink blobs or Ttar though, assuming you are slotting it over Superpower on the mixed set. Or if you're running an all out attacker, you lose the longevity that Roost provides.

 

[sidakarya]

Honestly, if I were to use Hydreigon, I wouldn't bother running any "fairy-hunting" moves. Things like Flash Cannon and Charge Beam sink up your moveslot while not offering the good coverage, that it as a wallbreaker must have (and none of these moves answers all relevant fairies). You always have five other teammates and an easy way to go to a fairy-check in U-Turn, which is much better for your momentum in the early game.

 

[mertyville]

Makes you incredibly susceptible to pink blobs or Ttar though, assuming you are slotting it over Superpower on the mixed set. Or if you're running an all out attacker, you lose the longevity that Roost provides.

True, but Superpower makes it much weaker to priority than it already is, where you are forced to switch out. And again, Fairies will be able to easiely switch in without fearing anything from Hydreigon. Maybe U-Turn for the momentum could be a decent option, even on a Special Attacking set which I prefer to use.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I don't think the charge beam set is worth it, as pointed out previously, Hydreigon's speed, while not terrible is rather lackluster.

In the rare case you actually get to use it to kill azumarill/togekiss and get to +2 you'll likely be forced out by a faster dragon or a mach punch/use shard user stopping your sweep.

I feel the best set for Hydreigon this gen (at least in OU) is scarf with 3 attacks and U-Turn.

Draco Meteor
Superpower(I run Focus Blast on cassette)
Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Dark Pulse
U-Turn

I'm not sure if a +spe nature is needed as you'll outspeed everything unboosted anyway and most scarfers will outspeed you regardless. You can go as low as 132 speed EVs with scarf and outspeed base 130s this allows you to invest in attack or health if you want.

 

[TKGriffiths]

I feel it's much better to U-Turn out of fairies rather than try to run a steel move to hit them super effectively because you always lose out on stuff like Azumarill, Klefki and Mawile. You can't even 2HKO sometimes even if you do have the ideal coverage move, I feel U-Turn has way more utility and it just a better overall option. I'm using Specs Hydreigon with Draco Meteor/Dark Pulse/Fire Blast/U-Turn, it's a solid part of a Volt-Turn strategy.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I feel it's much better to U-Turn out of fairies rather than try to run a steel move to hit them super effectively because you always lose out on stuff like Azumarill, Klefki and Mawile. You can't even 2HKO sometimes even if you do have the ideal coverage move, I feel U-Turn has way more utility and it just a better overall option. I'm using Specs Hydreigon with Draco Meteor/Dark Pulse/Fire Blast/U-Turn, it's a solid part of a Volt-Turn strategy.

Agreed, although I feel specs leaves me outsped by too many threats so I much prefer scarf myself.

 

[Hrothgar]

You can't surprise anyone with something dumb. It defeats the purpose of surprising them. If someone is trying to kill me with a flamethrower, they may be surprised when I start throwing cottonballs at them, but they will still proceed to burn my face right off my face.

Most fairies don't care about hydreigon's flash cannon whether you surprise them with it or not.

Just use u-turn and gain momentum against the obvious switch in. Or just switch out as they switch their fairy in. Massive weaknesses can be used to your advantage because they are easy to out predict.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

here's an ancient post about surprise factors:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/whimsicott.79216/page-24#post-3591515

tldr if you are going to run a surprise set, make sure it actually does stuff. it's like head smash aegislash: sounds silly, but lets aegislash kill off mandibuzz, which is pretty cool.

also fyi

252 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 258-304 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(258, 260, 264, 266, 270, 272, 276, 278, 282, 284, 288, 290, 294, 296, 300, 304)

have fun when you fail to even OHKO the most physically vulnerable fairy you're going to see. head smash is going to do pittance (150 is weaker than 100*2).

slightly less relevant calc

252 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Carbink: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
(268, 268, 272, 276, 280, 284, 284, 288, 292, 296, 300, 300, 304, 308, 312, 316)

problem, 4x weakness?

it's really a pity, but hydreigon's 105 attack simply isn't strong enough to break through most fairy types with iron tail.

let's not even mention the absurdity of running 252 attack hydreigon

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

here's an ancient post about surprise factors:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/whimsicott.79216/page-24#post-3591515

tldr if you are going to run a surprise set, make sure it actually does stuff. it's like head smash aegislash: sounds silly, but lets aegislash kill off mandibuzz, which is pretty cool.

also fyi

252 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 258-304 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(258, 260, 264, 266, 270, 272, 276, 278, 282, 284, 288, 290, 294, 296, 300, 304)

have fun when you fail to even OHKO the most physically vulnerable fairy you're going to see. head smash is going to do pittance (150 is weaker than 100*2).

slightly less relevant calc

252 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Carbink: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
(268, 268, 272, 276, 280, 284, 284, 288, 292, 296, 300, 300, 304, 308, 312, 316)

problem, 4x weakness?

it's really a pity, but hydreigon's 105 attack simply isn't strong enough to break through most fairy types with iron tail.

let's not even mention the absurdity of running 252 attack hydreigon

As much as I think Iron Tail is a bad option and shouldn't be ran on anything, least of all Hydreigon, your calc doesn't really help your argument though as it shows Florges is cleanly 2hko'd and as such cannot switch in on Hydreigon as Hydreigon easily outspeeds it, although your calc is kinda off as Hydreigon doesn't invest, that much if at all, into attack.

0 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 206-244 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[zachmac]

I can, in theory, see where a fairy-battling Hydriegon can beat a fairy. That is when the fairy swaps into Hydreigon, in which a 2HKO will usually be enough(how many faries outrun Hydreigon?). However, I did try out a fairy lure Salamence + Dragon Dancer core with different dragons, but in the end, Salamence had to go, since fairies were just so rare it didn't hold it's weight in the team. If you run Iron Tail/Flash Cannon on Hydreigon, it has to be to lure out fairies to help support another dragon and it has to be playing some other important role in your team to really be worth it.

 

[El Coqui]

Flash Cannon or othwr pixie hurting moves are wasted on Hydra. GRanted, yesterday a guy killed my MegaGard with a crit FlashCannon....but without the crit i wouldve easily lived and OHKO with HyperVoice. He was just lucky.


Run what you have always run on Hydra and leave the fairy figjters arw the other five pokes on your team

 

[tyronetheblack]

Taking massive amounts of recoil when a recoil-less option already exists? No thanks.

agreed with the recoil it will not survive the incoming hit?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

As much as I think Iron Tail is a bad option and shouldn't be ran on anything, least of all Hydreigon, your calc doesn't really help your argument though as it shows Florges is cleanly 2hko'd and as such cannot switch in on Hydreigon as Hydreigon easily outspeeds it, although your calc is kinda off as Hydreigon doesn't invest, that much if at all, into attack.

0 Atk Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 206-244 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even so hydreigon has a 56% chance of connecting 2 iron tails in a row. as far as that goes i don't think a lure should require a coinflip to actually perform its job. head smash cannot guarantee a 2HKO without hazards and even so you're going to take massive damage in the process.

also i did mention about hydreigon not mentioning that much into atk to begin with...

 

[Hclegend]

To be fair, Absol would likely 1HKO Hydreigon with Play Rough.
Who uses Absol anyway? I use one, not the point. XD
The thought of Choice Specs 252 Sp Att Hydreigon NUKING everything with Draco Meteor makes me want to use a choice set XD

 

[Count Serperior]

Let's change the subject, Head Smash and Iron Tail won't get you anywhere.

Has anybody given Sub/Roost a try? I've been thinking of changing my movesets up and thought of this:

Hydreigon
Leftovers
-Substitute
-Roost
-Dark Pulse
-Draco Meteor

With the new type chart you needn't worry about Steels much, except maybe Bisharp and a few others. You're not getting around Fairies anyway and this set doesn't bother with trynna take them out, you should have another team member for that.
This set helps against weak, bulky Pokémon (maybe even Rotom thanks to the resists) and it helps ease prediction before smashing someone's face in with Draco Meteor.


Thoughts?

 

[FurryGah]

Imo, SubRoost is better utilized by MegaZardX, who has fantastic coverage with just its STABs alone. Hydreigon is still strong and has powerful STABs, but lacks real coverage with STABs alone. Imo, the best sets for Hydreigon are all stright on attacking sets: Scarfed U-Turn + 3 Attacks, Scarfed/Specs/LO all-out attacker, or mixed wallbreaker are what Hydreigon should stick to, imo.

 

[Terminate421]

How about you just don't make something meant to fight off fairies and instead switch to something that can?

That is what the other 5 pokemon are for. No need to waste a move slot to "Handle fairies"

 

[SpaceFlare]

How about you just don't make something meant to fight off fairies and instead switch to something that can?

That is what the other 5 pokemon are for. No need to waste a move slot to "Handle fairies"

To add to this, running a Steel move doesn't even cover the more common fairies in the form of Mawile, Azumarrill and Klefki. A Poison move would be even worse coverage.

Been playing around with him a bit and the mixed wallbreaking set still works wonders as he can still hit fairly hard.

Team preview gives you an idea of how freely you can launch your attacks or just use his ability to force switches to do a double switch (or even just U-Turn out to make your life easier)