Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Salemance]

This might come off as a little biased as I generally don't care for the washing machine itself (I generally hate it truth be told, design wise and just water typing) but I just don't see him as much of an issue really.

He has an immunity to ground moves and is rock neutral, but that is still 12% off in a switch with two turns of lefties to get that back. Then even with his bulk, he is still hit pretty dang hard by alot of neutral threats, ensuring 2HKOs by many a thing, which is comps Ted a bit when factoring in his decent but not great speed. Sure he cab switch or burn but that may come at quite a cost to his own health later on in a match.

Yes he has one weakness (which is said to not be used alot, which always makes me laugh), but residual damage is really easy to create on him. Toxic, burn, sand, yes he can chesto rest, but if you run that then the opponent should probably see it coming as you are not getting leftovers recovery to help "counter act" other residual damage (then factoring in how fast you move) and leaves you crippled for the rest of the match as you will no longer be able to heal with out forcing yourself to go to sleep.

He can cripple opponents with a well timed burn, but nine times outs ten that I've seen, people lead with Rotom-W and burn turn one, just to help get that residual damage early which is generally a good call, but one that is entirely predictable and easy to counter act. Does this mean every user does this? No, there are those who would probably Volt Switch out to help it out, but I am speaking from my own battling experience.

Is this thing suppose to be able to do everything? Oh no. Yet is it nearly as great as you make it out to be? Not S rank based on lack of recovery in my opinion.

 

[alexwolf]

Lefties Rotom-W is very easy to wear down if you have a Pokemon on low health to take the Pain Split, and Chesto + Rest is even easier to wear down with certain playstyles (such as VoltTurn and sand teams in general). Of course Rotom-W can find the time to get some health back with either Pain Split or ChestoRest at the right moments, but let's not kid ourselves, Pain Split has already been unreliable as fuck and ChestoRest is so rarely seen for a good reason.

That said, it's not that i am opposed to Rotom-W going to S-Rank. It's one of the best support Pokemon in the game, checking many threats, spreading status, and giving free switches to dangerous Pokemon. Both A+ or S are fine for Rotom-W imo, i can't really decide.

On another topic, Staraptor should be included in B or B- rank. Here is the definition of B rank:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

Staraptor does have a very notable offensive niche, this of a good wallbreaker and an excellent partner to Talonflame. And while Staraptor does have some flaws that prevent it from wallbreaking as easily as it would like (Skarmory and Aegislash), those flaws are not significant enough to overshadow the fact that teams without those Pokemon can't protect their defensive cores against Staraptor. Also, Staraptor pairs very well with Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Talonflame, and Landorus-T, which can deal with the only two Pokemon that can wall Staraptor, meaning that one doesn't have to go out of its way to support Staratpor.

 

[Colonial]

This might come off as a little biased as I generally don't care for the washing machine itself (I generally hate it truth be told, design wise and just water typing) but I just don't see him as much of an issue really.

He has an immunity to ground moves and is rock neutral, but that is still 12% off in a switch with two turns of lefties to get that back. Then even with his bulk, he is still hit pretty dang hard by alot of neutral threats, ensuring 2HKOs by many a thing, which is comps Ted a bit when factoring in his decent but not great speed. Yes he has one weakness (which is said to not be used alot, which always makes me laugh), but residual damage is really easy to create on him. Toxic, burn, sand, yes he can chesto rest, but if you run that then the opponent should probably see it coming as you are not getting leftovers recovery to help "counter act" other residual damage and leaves you crippled for the rest of the match as you will no longer be able to heal with out forcing yourself to go to sleep.

He can cripple opponents with a well timed burn, but nine times outs ten that I've seen, people lead with Rotom-W and burn turn one, just to help get that residual damage early which is fine generally a good call, but be ones entirely predictable and easy to counter act. Does this mean every user does this? No, there are a few who would probably Volt Switch out to help s out, but I am speaking from my own battling experience.

Is this thing suppose to be able to do everything? Oh no. Yet is it nearly as great as you make it out to be? Not S rank, but A+ yes.

Using one's personal experiences as a benchmark for tiering is, in my opinion, not a great idea. One's own personal experiences are rarely representative of the bigger picture. I must also ask: How are those arguments really relevant? Anything can be worn down, even things with reliable recovery (okay, *maybe* not gliscor or trevenant, but still), so it is not really a mark in Rotom's disfavor- chesto resto and pain split are still pretty good. Your second main paragraph eludes me as to any relevancy- so Rotom is predictable? Except it's not, but the people using it are? How can that predictability be taken advantage of, or be considered a weakness? You yourself noted that said predictability wasn't a bad thing. Could you please rephrase your statements?

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I'm not saying that Rotom-W isn't a great pokemon, but S rank is probably too much for it. It can function as a pivot, burn things, Volt Switch, and that's it really. Nothing else is really outstanding about it. Stats are pretty average all around, typing is great, but imo it's not enough for S rank. Rotom-W does have its flaws like only average bulk and no reliable recovery, and its positive traits on the other hand aren't even that outstanding (Imo they're comparable to other mons in A+). A+ Rank is just fine for it.

 

[ensurdagen]

I think Rotom-W's popularity and usefulness in OU confirms Gastrodon's place in B, as Gastrodon counters most Rotom-W sets and checks all others unless it carries HP Grass. Gastrodon is slower, and therefore beats pain split with its superior recovery. Gastrodon walls a similar portion of the metagame, sharing a weakness, the only difference being that non STAB grass attacks OHKO Gastrodon and 2HKO Rotom-W. Of course, a Rotom-W can't easily bring itself to full HP without Rest or Wish, making this a more even trade-off than it seems. Mold breaker earthquakes don't hurt Gastrodon, and it has 2 immunities that most teams plan around, unlike Rotom-W's immunity that most teams already have. It further helps that Rotom-W usually has WoW, something Gastrodon shrugs off--though trickscarf and toxic are bad news, Gastrodon will still force a (non volt!) switch or toxic the Rotom-W back.

 

[Shiruba]

please make a team that rotom-w doesn't fit on at all and then come back to us

A fire monotype!

But seriously, Rotom-Wash is incredible. It goes so well with a lot of the threats in the tier, like Genesect, Scizor, and Talonflame, checks a lot of popular Pokemon like Mega Pinsir and the above Talonflame, and is rather versatile in its sets while having a nice ability to remove a weakness and help switch in due to not being affected by grounded hazards. I believe I've used this Pokemon on every team I've made so far this gen - granted, that sample size is about three, but it's just so easy to fit on the team, particularly if you like VoltTurn like I do.

I can see why one might not think it's S, though - while it's really great as a combined package, none of its sets are like OMG SO FAKING INCREDIBLE a la sweeper Mega Lucario or whatever. It does have its checks and counters, like the above Gastrodon, and it's not like its stats are super amazing. I can see Rotom going either way, but leaning slightly more towards S simply because, while one aspect in particular isn't supreme over the rest, the whole package is utterly fantastic. Kinda like fifth gen Jirachi.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I think Rotom-W's popularity and usefulness in OU confirms Gastrodon's place in B, as Gastrodon counters most Rotom-W sets and checks all others unless it carries HP Grass. Gastrodon is slower, and therefore beats pain split with its superior recovery. Gastrodon walls a similar portion of the metagame, sharing a weakness, the only difference being that non STAB grass attacks OHKO Gastrodon and 2HKO Rotom-W. Of course, a Rotom-W can't easily bring itself to full HP without Rest or Wish, making this a more even trade-off than it seems. Mold breaker earthquakes don't hurt Gastrodon, and it has 2 immunities that most teams plan around, unlike Rotom-W's immunity that most teams already have.

The thing is Rotom-W will just burn you and switch out. Then you have a burned Gastrodon and the problem isn't solved. It's a rock-solid counter because of Toxic + Recover and immunity to its STABs, but there's much better options available like Celebi who has Natural Cure and Giga Drain. Gastrodon is really mediocre anyway, being outclassed by a majority of pokes like Chansey, said Celebi, Rotom-W even when it comes to beating Water-types, Mega Venusaur (which walls everything Gastrodon walls and a hell of a lot more) and so on. I recall Gastro dropping to NU on Pokemon Online last gen, and to be fair that happened for a good reason. There were better options in every tier, even in NU people still went with Alomomola. This gen Gastro even lost its niche in countering Rain, and just faces too much competition like I said.

 

[Mood4food77]

it's not the point where it's overbearing, which it's not

it's the fact that it's like putting bananas on a PB&J sandwich. seriously, why aren't you putting bananas on your pb&j?

he's s-rank because he requires next to no support to be on a team, basically just something to deal with grass types and opposing rotom-ws, probably a few other pokemon as well but that usually only requires another pokemon or two, hell using mega venusaur provides probably the best defensive core in the game (especially with both pokemon versatility)

the washing machine should be S rank, there is not a single team you can build where he would make it worse outside of mono type teams but lets be real....unless you're a gym leader you're not going mono type

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

it's not the point where it's overbearing, which it's not

it's the fact that it's like putting bananas on a PB&J sandwich. seriously, why aren't you putting bananas on your pb&j?

he's s-rank because he requires next to no support to be on a team, basically just something to deal with grass types and opposing rotom-ws, probably a few other pokemon as well but that usually only requires another pokemon or two, hell using mega venusaur provides probably the best defensive core in the game (especially with both pokemon versatility)

the washing machine should be S rank, there is not a single team you can build where he would make it worse outside of mono type teams but lets be real....unless you're a gym leader you're not going mono type

I can say the exactly same thing for garchomp, terrakion, scizor, heatran, deoxys-d, clefable, greninja, keldeo and probably near half of the tier but you dont see anyone arguing for them to be S rank. The point is what rotom does, not just how much support it needs to do its job. The fact is rotom isnt sweeping any team and it gets worn down pretty fast due to mediocre recovery, average stats and the fact its constantly volt switching. Its job is to burn things and gain momentum with volt switch+hydro pump shenanigans, its a glue and nothing more. Its absolutely great but its not some huge threat you need to keep in mind when building teams, or some insane support mon that can easily setup a condition for its offensive teammates to plow through the opponent.

 

[Mood4food77]

those pokemon need a lot more support than rotom-w, who needs probably just one pokemon
if you have nothing to handle rotom-w, you get rocked, just like any pokemon but to say he's not a threat is to be misinformed
he's not supposed to sweep, he's meant to severely cripple your team and he does this better than almost any pokemon out there, he also walls/checks pretty much everything
like having volt switch is a bad move, seriously? the fact he has to use volt switch out of counters is a plus not a minus, so what if it does a measly 12% to some pokemon, that's more that 0% and for that, it's a plus, and ground types take a huge risk switching in since he's got hydro pump, volt absorb/lightning rod pokemon are very rare to the point where you can ignore it and even then, they don't like taking hydro pumps

seriously, rotom-w does his job so freaking well it's absurd, even if a grass type (his nemesis) switches in, they have to fear getting burned and then he'll volt switch out into talonflame or something

something with 40% usage is something you can't just ignore

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

those pokemon need a lot more support than rotom-w, who needs probably just one pokemon
if you have nothing to handle rotom-w, you get rocked, just like any pokemon but to say he's not a threat is to be misinformed
he's not supposed to sweep, he's meant to severely cripple your team and he does this better than almost any pokemon out there, he also walls/checks pretty much everything
like having volt switch is a bad move, seriously? the fact he has to use volt switch out of counters is a plus not a minus, so what if it does a measly 12% to some pokemon, that's more that 0% and for that, it's a plus, and ground types take a huge risk switching in since he's got hydro pump, volt absorb/lightning rod pokemon are very rare to the point where you can ignore it and even then, they don't like taking hydro pumps

seriously, rotom-w does his job so freaking well it's absurd, even if a grass type (his nemesis) switches in, they have to fear getting burned and then he'll volt switch out into talonflame or something

something with 40% usage is something you can't just ignore

You dont need to go out of your way to include crap like gastrodon on your team just because of rotom. All you need to do is put offensive pressure on it with powerful attackers and its going to down, period. Its recovery is mediocre and its stats are average, the only reason rotom can wall anything is because of its typing, thats why its so easy to wear down, it has a very hard time handling anything that can hit it at least neutrally, unlike things like hippowdon or chansey who have the sheer bulk to laugh at anything that inst a super effective move. I never said volt switch was a bad move, i said that spamming it is one of the reasons rotom is worn down fast, and since volt switch is the crux of all rotom sets you can see where this is going. All the pokemons i mentioned require very little to no support, exactly like rotom, and none of them including the wash are sweeping teams with little effort or creating conditions for its teammates to do the same.

 

[Mood4food77]

none of those pokemon fit on a team as well as rotom-w does, especially when he's the perfect counterpart to mega venusaur

is it perfect? no, but the fact it either counters or checks 90% of the god damn metagame means it's freaking amazing

Rotom-W for S Rank, I can't see this thing being any lower when he's basically on every team and feels like every team is better with him

 

[Colonial]

All the pokemons i mentioned require very little to no support, exactly like rotom, and none of them including the wash are sweeping teams with little effort or creating conditions for its teammates to do the same.

It seems like my only contributions to this thread are to criticize something. I ought to change that. Not right now, however, because the quoted statement is wrong. Rotom-W MOST DEFINATELY creates conditions for it's teammates to sweep- burning the opponents' sole counter to your sweeper is often game over, and the burn damage will wear down anything else again making for an easier sweep later. Volt Switch creates opportunities to set up and gets great momentum. Trick can cripple a crucial mon on your opponent's team, and Rotom makes for a good choice user itself.

 

[Colonial]

Is Vivillon in any way viable? CEyes Sleep Powder and Hurrican could make this the least forgettable early-game bug.

I think the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread is a better place to ask this than here. Short answer: Vivillon isn't getting much competition for "best early-game bug". It isn't viable in most cases, at least in OU. In RU or NU maybe, but not in OU. It's movepool is good but it's stats and typing hold it back too much.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

It seems like my only contributions to this thread are to criticize something. I ought to change that. Not right now, however, because the quoted statement is wrong. Rotom-W MOST DEFINATELY creates conditions for it's teammates to sweep- burning the opponents' sole counter to your sweeper is often game over, and the burn damage will wear down anything else again making for an easier sweep later. Volt Switch creates opportunities to set up and gets great momentum. Trick can cripple a crucial mon on your opponent's team, and Rotom makes for a good choice user itself.

If your opponent let you burn his pinsir while you still have a volcarona alive, your opponent is an idiot. I cant really take this comment seriously if youre going to assume people are really going to be that bad at the game. Volt switch definitely creates free turns and sweeping opportunities (much like anything else that learns it), but its nowhere near as consistent or potent as deoxys setupping 2 layers of hazards and shutting down every defogger with taunt.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Something I would like to see ranked is Honchkrow. It's really underrated but it has some traits that set it apart from other pokes which are currently ranked.

Base 125 Attack is a lot. No questions asked. Couple this with great, unique (!) STABs in Flying and Dark and you have yourself a powerhouse.

Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. The best moves you could ask for on something like Honchkrow. Not all pokes have that kind of luxury. The former has few resists and hits like a truck, while the latter lets it outpace scarfers and faster threats, and often knock them out.

Moxie. Few pokes have this ability, and even less can use it effectively. Honchkrow is arguably the best user of the ability: few pokes can safely come in without being 2HKO'd, which means it's easy for Honchkrow to obtain a boost. Revenge killing is difficult because of Sucker Punch, especially after a Moxie boost.

Coverage. Brave Bird + Superpower + Sucker Punch is unresisted coverage and deals with virtually anything. Physically defensive Rotom-W and Skarmory are two of few pokes that avoid a 2HKO.

Versatility: Honchkrow is a wallbreaker, a revenge killer and a late game sweeper. All at the same time. Not many pokes can pull this off, in fact I think only Mega Kangaskhan was able to do all of this simultaneously better than Honchkrow.

B rank, what do people think?

 

[TooMuchSugar]

In my experience battling against Rotom, a lack of a Recovery move is almost never an issue. The nature of how it works, Rest + Chesto once in the battle is usually enough to get the job done against the much frailer, SR weak threats that it tends to target. Leftovers + Painsplit is also surprisingly useful and powerful in the hands of something with Rotom's resilience to passive damage, low HP, and trolly Speed.

That's right-- resilience to passive damage. It's true that Spikes is less common than it's ever been, but having spikes immunity + neutral to SR still means that Rotom-W can get by with a lot less healing than other defensive mons need to function; especially when it has only 1 very hard to hit weakness and trolls with Volt Switch to avoid many of its own checks.

Also S Rank should not be only for Pokes that should be considered suspect. Jirachi was S Tier last gen, and was never suspect-- meanwhile Torn-T was A and got banned. Viability is about "power" independant of "usage", but suspects don't always come from power alone. Not all suspects have to come from S class (or are necessarily S class) where as not all S class are suspects.

I believe that Torn-T was in fact S-ranked at the time it was banned. Also, the definition of S-rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

The biggest flaw I see in Rotom-W going to S-rank is that it will not destroy entire teams by itself, as Genesect, Deoxys-S, Mega Lucario, and Mega Venusaur all do. That said, Jirachi never destroyed entire teams either (well, not unless you got some really terrible flinch hax) and it was a pretty solid S-rank last gen. I'm kinda on the fence about Rotom-W - I don't have a lot of trouble with it, but I do always take the time to make sure all my teams have a dedicated switch in to it, something I don't do for anything else.

 

[Colonial]

If your opponent let you burn his pinsir while you still have a volcarona alive, your opponent is an idiot. I cant really take this comment seriously if youre going to assume people are really going to be that bad at the game. Volt switch definitely creates free turns and sweeping opportunities (much like anything else that learns it), but its nowhere near as consistent or potent as deoxys setupping 2 layers of hazards and shutting down every defogger with taunt.

Who's going to try and use defog when a Deoxys is on the field? I really can't take this comment seriously if you're going to assume people are really that bad at the game. Deoxys dies to any sweeper even when the sweeper is unboosted, no point in defogging until it's dead. If you meant Defense, great, you just sent out setup bait that some of the best defoggers (Lati@s) outspeed. Also, no, deoxys' hazards don't create free turns with more consistency than volt switch- unless your sweeper is weak to SR there is no rush to eliminate it with defog or rapid spin. Volt Switch creates a free turn whenever your opponent sends out a pokemon that one of yours walls or forces out. I could also mention that Deoxys makes a free turn once a match. Rotom creates many throughout a match.

 

[Salt]

stuff about Honchkrow

This is a good description of Honchkrow's power

On a serious note, B- seems like good place for Honchkrow. It shits on a lot of things with Dark/Flying/Fighting coverage. Moxie is absolutely amazing on it, as it has all the tools to abuse it with. It has good HP to soak up Brave Bird recoil, which always hurts coming off of base 125 Attack. It can also go mixed or special pretty easily with moves like Dark Pulse, Heat Wave, and Nasty Plot. A weakness to Stealth Rock, poor bulk, and poor Speed hold it back somewhat, but it has undeniable strengths that make it a good mon.

I really like how some of the old lower tiered Dark-types are looking. Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Honchkrow, and maybe others are all looking like solid choices in OU. Who gives a fuck about Fairies?

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Who's going to try and use defog when a Deoxys is on the field? I really can't take this comment seriously if you're going to assume people are really that bad at the game. Deoxys dies to any sweeper even when the sweeper is unboosted, no point in defogging until it's dead. If you meant Defense, great, you just sent out setup bait that some of the best defoggers (Lati@s) outspeed. Also, no, deoxys' hazards don't create free turns with more consistency than volt switch- unless your sweeper is weak to SR there is no rush to eliminate it with defog or rapid spin. Volt Switch creates a free turn whenever your opponent sends out a pokemon that one of yours walls or forces out. I could also mention that Deoxys makes a free turn once a match. Rotom creates many throughout a match.

Once deoxys dies your opponent is putting a huge offensive pressure on you making it nearly impossible to remove hazards, dont even pretend you didnt understand what i meant. Stealth rock alone is going to be detrimental to your team, what pushes deoxys to s rank is how ridiculous easy it is for it to setup a bunch of layers with minimal effort, no other hazard setter can boast that. If you dont eliminate them fast youre screwed, period, end of story. This isnt ferrothorn or skarmory, this is something that can shut down almost any attempt to stop it with its sheer speed. In a similar vein, genesect puts the opponent in a bunch of no-win scenarios with an u-turn that actually hurts and its massive coverage, all of which can have their power boosted just by coming in the battle. I dont even need to explain lucario here, it essentially has a drawback-less explosion for its main move and the ability to hit from either side of the spectrum alongside 3 different priorities, you simply cant reliably deal with it. Rotom is nowhere near the level of these monsters, it has basically one good set, average stats, overly reliance on inaccurate moves, no reliable recovery which is bad for a defensive mon and makes it easily worn down. Its not S rank in no way, shape or form, its perfectly fine where it is.

 

[Numera]

Once deoxys dies your opponent is putting a huge offensive pressure on you making it nearly impossible to remove hazards, dont even pretend you didnt understand what i meant. Stealth rock alone is going to be detrimental to your team, what pushes deoxys to s rank is how ridiculous easy it is for it to setup a bunch of layers with minimal effort, no other hazard setter can boast that. If you dont eliminate them fast youre screwed, period, end of story. This isnt ferrothorn or skarmory, this is something that can shut down almost any attempt to stop it with its sheer speed. In a similar vein, genesect puts the opponent in a bunch of no-win scenarios with an u-turn that actually hurts and its massive coverage, all of which can have their power boosted just by coming in the battle. I dont even need to explain lucario here, it essentially has a drawback-less explosion for its main move and the ability to hit from either side of the spectrum alongside 3 different priorities, you simply cant reliably deal with it. Rotom is nowhere near the level of these monsters, it has basically one good set, average stats, overly reliance on inaccurate moves, no recovery which is bad for a defensive mon and makes it easily worn down. Its not S rank in no way, shape or form, its perfectly fine where it is.

...

Few things wrong with this good sir

1. Rotom W has way more than 1 good set. I can name a few. Psy Defensive, Spdef, Choice scarf/specs, Chesto Rest, geeze there is alot you can do with rotom.

2. Avarge stats? um... look at that def a second. and that spdef. 107 each isnt the avarage at all. And 105 spatt is pretty nice too if i say so myself

3. Chesto Rest and pain split as recovery exist y'know

if i had to rank it, Rotom-W for S rank.

 

[TaBuu]

Supporting S Rank
Rotom-Wash has always been an amazing Pokemon thanks to its unique typing, stat spread and movepool. In this current metagame, I feel that Rotom-Wash has a chance at being considered an S-Rank Pokemon. The fact that it can take on top tier threats such as Talonflame, Landorus-T, Aegislash, Mamoswine, and so forth fulfills the first criteria of being able to wall a majority of the OU metagame.

Rotom-Wash ability to run a diverse number of sets is also a qualifying trait for S Rank. While Blissey and Goodra may take on pivot Rotom-Wash with ease, getting tricked a Scarf can prove detrimental for the opposition. ChestoRest is also another great variant that allows Rotom to act as the pseudo status absorber. Specs, while not as viable anymore, still hits decently hard is capable of crippling special walls with Trick.

Rotom Wash can easily support team members through Volt Switch and spreading status (Toxic, Thunder Wave or Will O Wisp). Being able to eliminate certain offensive threats help offensive teammates to sweep easier. To be honest, Rotom Wash suffers has very very few noticeably glaring flaws. It's main flaw is probably a lack of reliable, instant recovery but that can easily be played around through ChestoRest, Pain Split and Wish support.

tl;dr : Rotom-Wash's ability to comfortably face a number of offensive threats, use various effective sets (thereby increasing its versatility), lack any sort of glaring weakness make it S-Rank worthy.

 

[epicdrill]

EDIT: Just for reference, I've read through the last 15 or so pages and gathered a summary of some unlisted rankings, that we've agreed upon. (Or so I think, please correct if something is wrong)
Rotom-H - B+
Blastoise (Mega) - B(-)
Starmie - B(-)
Chandelure - B(-)
Gardevoir (Mega) - B
Latias - A(-)/B+
Latios - A(-)/B+
Hydreigon - B
Staraptor - B

Bumping this post again, because ginganinja STILL hasn't updated the OP. Once again, thanks, sidakarya, for this list.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Bumping this post again, because ginganinja STILL hasn't updated the OP. Once again, thanks, sidakarya, for this list.

Better add entei at B+ or so, we've discussed it and reached the same conclusion at least twice.

(sprites make everything better right?)

So as I said before I'm on the fence about Rotom-W for S, but I'm gonna argue against it because I don't see anyone else doing so particularly effectively and I think there's a good case to be made against it going to S.

Basically, Rotom-W is the go-to utility mon for a lot of teams right now, and I understand why that makes people want to put it in S. There are a lot of arguments for it that run something like, "it fits on any team", which is impressive and all, but not the definition of S-rank. Yes, it can check a lot of important things, and don't get me wrong, it does so incredibly well. If you have trouble with Talonflame, Landorus T,or any other of the multitude of things it checks, you can basically slap a Rotom-W on your team and call it a day.

As useful a utility counter as it is, though, I'm just not seeing the walling capability that S-rank implies. Here's the thing - while Rotom-W walls some useful stuff, it cannot wall a significant portion of the metagame for any extended period of time (sorry, but if you're taking repeated powerful attacks, pain split just doesn't cut it - at best, you just take your opponent with you). Even the max physically defensive set can't take powerful neutral STAB attacks more than once or twice. Rotom-W walls stuff based on its (admittedly awesome) resistances and immunity, and that's about it.

On the "support other pokemon with very little opportunity cost" line, I think Rotom-W has a better chance. As has been said before, there is practically no opportunity cost to using Rotom-W - it's never a wasted teamslot, and volt switch = no free turns for your opponent. I'm just not sure that Rotom-W provides enough support to its teammates to make it to S-rank on that strength. What support moves does Rotom offer?

-Will-O-Wisp
-maybe Trickscarf
-rarely thunder wave

And that's about the extent of Rotom-W's team support. Not that those are bad, but let's take a moment to look at the support options of an S-rank support mon from 5th Gen: Jirachi.

-Paralysis (thunder wave, body slam, or thunder)
-Wish
-Flinch hax (not sure whether this counts as support or offense tbh)
-Stealth rocks
(also better walling capability and general staying power)

I just don't see Rotom-W's support options coming up to this kind of standard.


TL;DR Rotom-W walls a few really important things but not a significant portion of the metagame because he gets worn down so fast and has mediocre defenses for a wall (please don't get upset about that, 50/105/105 really isn't all that great for a wall - compare to Deoxys-S at 50/90/90). It also doesn't have quite enough support options to qualify as an S-rank supportive threat.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I believe that Torn-T was in fact S-ranked at the time it was banned. Also, the definition of S-rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

The biggest flaw I see in Rotom-W going to S-rank is that it will not destroy entire teams by itself, as Genesect, Deoxys-S, Mega Lucario, and Mega Venusaur all do. That said, Jirachi never destroyed entire teams either (well, not unless you got some really terrible flinch hax) and it was a pretty solid S-rank last gen. I'm kinda on the fence about Rotom-W - I don't have a lot of trouble with it, but I do always take the time to make sure all my teams have a dedicated switch in to it, something I don't do for anything else.

You're wrong. It was A-ranked. SR weakness and an over dependancy on Rain always prevented it from being S. Also, that description is simply incorrect, and has failed to be rectified. Identifying suspects is completely separate from the goal of this thread.

Jirachi on the other hand, WAS an S Rank Poke, but never a suspect-- and Rotom-W in XY is FAR more valuable, and FAR more powerful/viable than Jirachi in BW...