Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Colonial]

But the donphan or starmie has to predict chandelure coming In or else they'd spin, if starmie surfs predicting my chandelure but I stay in, talonflame or charizard is dead. I might try specs. It sounds decent if you can bluff the scarf

Prediction is not an argument that should be used, because it can go both ways- I could predict the switch to Chandy, or you could counterpredict me, or whatever. That's entirely in the hands of the player, not the pokemon. When discussing theoretical situations, it's usually the best to apply the worst-case scenario- that way, once a conclusion is reached, it can be said with reasonable confidence that that conclusion applies to every case. In this case, Chandy dies to the STABs of just about every offensive spinner in OU, and as such cannot be called a good spin-blocker.

I think as a special wall breaker, chandy preforms impeccably.
It doesn't NEED to run scarf (although that is a fantastic set)
Because instead of trying to compete against other sweepers it can tear apart physical walls as well as attack sub reliant Pokemon with infiltrator, which is definitely a good ability choice. Yes, flash fire is the best but infiltrator is nearly as good. You often find your self wishing for the other ability, or then praising the fact you chose it.

Those points are correct, but we're not arguing Chandy's deserving of being on this list- it definitely is- but whether or not it should be moved up. In my opinion, Chandelure has too many flaws to be any higher then it is currently, as it faces serious competition as a Fire-type special attacker from Charizard Y, who outclasses it by a significant amount. Charizard is a Mega, but it's still a comparison to be made. It is also walled by Heatran and Tyranitar, and non-scarf versions can't beat Greninja 1v1. The biggest problem is Chandelure's lack of identity- what can it do that other pokemon in OU can't, and does it do that well enough? It does it's job well enough to be B, but any higher? I can't see it.

Infiltrator is a good point, and may be Chandelure's claim to fame in OU, but not enough to be above B in my opinion.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Wait who is that guy? Lol all of a sudden he appears out of nowhere threatening viral retribution?


Also on point....

Can mega tyranitar alone be bumped to A+? Seriously once this guy gets a dance in he starts shredding teams apart.

I also think garchomp and its mega should be put into A. Garchomp is far easier to handle this gen it seems to me, with a lot of Pokemon being able to get the jump on it, like char x and greninja as well as the rereleased deoxys s

I'm a bit on the fence on Mega Ttar being bumped up to A+. On one hand, after the weather nerf Tyranitar finds itself as one of the weather setters that, well doesn't suck. Ninetails and Politoed were used last Gen for Permaweather. I'm not saying Sun and Rain teams aren't viable, they just aren't nearly as centralizing as last Gen, while Ttar has always been a solid Pokemon even before the Weather Wars were a thing. The only other two weather setters that I find to be fairly untouched this Gen is Ttar and Hippowdon who serves a different role then Ttar anyway, and newcomer Zard Y, who like Ttar, I find that it's Weather is first and foremost for it's own benefit, Zard Y getting Sun Boosted Fire Blasts, Mega Ttar getting to negate Leftovers with Sandstorm's passive Damage and giving a nice boost to it's Sp. Def thanks to said Sandstorm, both of them bring in weather more to benefit themselves, the possibility to give the team weather support is a bonus, but often the weather of the two doesn't last long enough for it to show up frequently. Another perk is the Dark Typing, the only type to retain it's resistance to Ghost after the Steel nerf, which is a plus as well. Also, Dark and Ghost types in General enjoy spamming their Dark/Ghost STAB now that Steel doesn't resist it. On the other hand, The big thing I believe holds Ttar back is the number of weaknesses it has, Mega Ttar is incredibly bulky, but the fact that it has 7 weaknesses is a contributing factor to why Mega Ttar may never break A Rank. Also I really need to make my posts a bit less lengthy, sheesh.

 

[Colonial]

I'm a bit on the fence on Mega Ttar being bumped up to A+. On one hand, after the weather nerf Tyranitar finds itself as one of the weather setters that, well doesn't suck, Ninetails and Politoed were used last Gen for Permaweather, I'm not saying Sun and Rain teams aren't viable, they just aren't nearly as centralizing as last Gen, while Ttar has always been a solid Pokemon even before the Weather Wars were a thing, the only other two weather setters that I find to be fairly untouched this Gen is Ttar and Hippowdon who serves a different role then Ttar anyway, and newcomer Zard Y, who like Ttar, I find that it's Weather is first and foremost for it's own benefit, Zard Y getting Sun Boosted Fire Blasts, Mega Ttar getting to negate Leftovers with Sandstorm's passive Damage and giving a nice boost to it's Sp. Def thanks to said Sandstorm, both of them bring in weather more to benefit themselves, the possibility to give the team weather support is a bonus, but often the weather of the two doesn't last long enough for it to show up frequently. Another perk is the Dark Typing, the only type to retain it's resistance to Ghost after the Steel nerf, which is a plus as well. Also, Dark and Ghost types in General enjoy spamming their Dark/Ghost STAB now that Steel doesn't resist it. On the other hand, The big thing I believe holds Ttar back is the number of weaknesses it has, Mega Ttar is incredibly bulky, but the fact that it has 7 weaknesses is a contributing factor to why Mega Ttar may never break A Rank. Also I really need to make my posts a bit less lengthy, sheesh.

*cough* you've got a hell of a run-on sentence there in the middle. Sorry for the nitpicking, but while reading I found it hard to focus on anything else.

On subject, have you tried Assault Vest TTar? It's amazingly bulky from the special side and is a great set for saying "screw all special attackers", but it lacks even passive recovery just like all Assault Vest pokemon. It can get worn down alarmingly easily.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I'm a bit on the fence on Mega Ttar being bumped up to A+. On one hand, after the weather nerf Tyranitar finds itself as one of the weather setters that, well doesn't suck, Ninetails and Politoed were used last Gen for Permaweather, I'm not saying Sun and Rain teams aren't viable, they just aren't nearly as centralizing as last Gen, while Ttar has always been a solid Pokemon even before the Weather Wars were a thing, the only other two weather setters that I find to be fairly untouched this Gen is Ttar and Hippowdon who serves a different role then Ttar anyway, and newcomer Zard Y, who like Ttar, I find that it's Weather is first and foremost for it's own benefit, Zard Y getting Sun Boosted Fire Blasts, Mega Ttar getting to negate Leftovers with Sandstorm's passive Damage and giving a nice boost to it's Sp. Def thanks to said Sandstorm, both of them bring in weather more to benefit themselves, the possibility to give the team weather support is a bonus, but often the weather of the two doesn't last long enough for it to show up frequently. Another perk is the Dark Typing, the only type to retain it's resistance to Ghost after the Steel nerf, which is a plus as well. Also, Dark and Ghost types in General enjoy spamming their Dark/Ghost STAB now that Steel doesn't resist it. On the other hand, The big thing I believe holds Ttar back is the number of weaknesses it has, Mega Ttar is incredibly bulky, but the fact that it has 7 weaknesses is a contributing factor to why Mega Ttar may never break A Rank. Also I really need to make my posts a bit less lengthy, sheesh.

You've missed the biggest thing to consider about Mega T-tar (and, I believe, the reason A+ rank was originally proposed): Dragon Dance. Mega T-tar does DD way better than normal tyranitar ever did with its surprisingly important additional 10 base speed. It can set up on a ton of stuff and wreck with just +1 attack because of that ridiculous base attack stat. The only major drawbacks of DD Tar are that it's hard countered at any stage of setup by Conkeldurr (easily mitigated by teambuilding) and the fact that its Stone Edge, its main stab attack, has 0% 80% accuracy. Other than that, it's an incredible sweeper that probably does deserve A+ rank.

*cough* you've got a hell of a run-on sentence there in the middle. Sorry for the nitpicking, but while reading I found it hard to focus on anything else.

On subject, have you tried Assault Vest TTar? It's amazingly bulky from the special side and is a great set for saying "screw all special attackers", but it lacks even passive recovery just like all Assault Vest pokemon. It can get worn down alarmingly easily.

He was talking about mega-tar, so assault vest is pretty much irrelevant. (also it's a lot easier to read his post if you interpret the commas as periods)

 

[LoDart210]

I'm a bit on the fence on Mega Ttar being bumped up to A+. On one hand, after the weather nerf Tyranitar finds itself as one of the weather setters that, well doesn't suck, Ninetails and Politoed were used last Gen for Permaweather, I'm not saying Sun and Rain teams aren't viable, they just aren't nearly as centralizing as last Gen, while Ttar has always been a solid Pokemon even before the Weather Wars were a thing, the only other two weather setters that I find to be fairly untouched this Gen is Ttar and Hippowdon who serves a different role then Ttar anyway, and newcomer Zard Y, who like Ttar, I find that it's Weather is first and foremost for it's own benefit, Zard Y getting Sun Boosted Fire Blasts, Mega Ttar getting to negate Leftovers with Sandstorm's passive Damage and giving a nice boost to it's Sp. Def thanks to said Sandstorm, both of them bring in weather more to benefit themselves, the possibility to give the team weather support is a bonus, but often the weather of the two doesn't last long enough for it to show up frequently. Another perk is the Dark Typing, the only type to retain it's resistance to Ghost after the Steel nerf, which is a plus as well. Also, Dark and Ghost types in General enjoy spamming their Dark/Ghost STAB now that Steel doesn't resist it. On the other hand, The big thing I believe holds Ttar back is the number of weaknesses it has, Mega Ttar is incredibly bulky, but the fact that it has 7 weaknesses is a contributing factor to why Mega Ttar may never break A Rank. Also I really need to make my posts a bit less lengthy, sheesh.

Just separate each point into its own paragraph ^^'

If I'm getting you right, you're saying that the 7 weaknesses are what holds that back? If so, I agree...

Which is why I'm only nominating mega tyranitar. It's bulkier, stronger and slightly faster, AKA better in every way.

If your team has no fighting moves or at least one Pokemon dedicated to taking it out, a dragon dance is practically a win condition. Few walls can handle it. Even unaware Pokemon (speaking from quagsire experience) find trouble swallowing a base 164 attack stat

 

[Colonial]

You've missed the biggest thing to consider about Mega T-tar (and, I believe, the reason A+ rank was originally proposed): Dragon Dance. Mega T-tar does DD way better than normal tyranitar ever did with its surprisingly important additional 10 base speed. It can set up on a ton of stuff and wreck with just +1 attack because of that ridiculous base attack stat. The only major drawbacks of DD Tar are that it's hard countered at any stage of setup by Conkeldurr (easily mitigated by teambuilding) and the fact that its Stone Edge, its main stab attack, has 0% 80% accuracy. Other than that, it's an incredible sweeper that probably does deserve A+ rank.


He was talking about mega-tar, so assault vest is pretty much irrelevant. (also it's a lot easier to read his post if you interpret the commas as periods)

I mentioned AV Tar because everything TheUltimateStorm said applies to normal Tyranitar as well, and as such I would say the argument is for Tyranitar as a whole more then just MegaTar. I'm putting words into Storm's mouth a bit here, but that's how I interpreted it.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Tyranitar shouldn't be A+ just because of the dragon dance set. It should be A+ because of its ability to wall or at the very least tank a hit from several common threats and ko them back such as talonflame, latios, latias, some kyurem-b, heatran, some thundurus, gengar, starmie, charizard and alakazam, pursuit to checkmate annoying psychics/ghosts, huge movepool that makes it very hard to switch in, stealth rock, sand shuts down swift swim teams and makes excadrill/garchomp/landorus gods, amazing revenge killing potential with choice scarf (gg pinsir and extremespeed lucario) and of course the excellent dragon dance sets that can usually run through most offensive teams because they are not well prepared for it.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Okay, so people are saying that DD is the big reason Mega Ttar is being proposed for A+. I get how that at +1 and 164 Base attack makes things quite hard to stomach, and provided my math is right at +1 not a whole lot can outspeed a Mega Ttar without boosts. If reading the situation correctly, after a Dragon Dance this could pretty much sum up the situation in a nutshell, so I'll agree on the proposal for Mega Ttar's promotion.

 

[LoDart210]

Tyranitar shouldn't be A+ just because of the dragon dance set. It should be A+ because of its ability to wall or at the very least tank a hit from several common threats and ko them back such as talonflame, latios, latias, some kyurem-b, heatran, some thundurus, gengar, starmie, charizard and alakazam, pursuit to checkmate annoying psychics/ghosts, huge movepool that makes it very hard to switch in, stealth rock, sand shuts down swift swim teams and makes excadrill/garchomp/landorus gods, amazing revenge killing potential with choice scarf (gg pinsir and extremespeed lucario) and of course the excellent dragon dance sets that can usually run through most offensive teams because they are not well prepared for it.

No one is talking about tar. We're discussing mega tar

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

No one is talking about tar. We're discussing mega tar

They're slashed, its the same thing.

 

[Rotosect]

I think Ditto should be bumped up to B rank at least. While we all know what it does, it's full potential is starting to surface now with the increasing popularity of PranksterSwag teams.
Essentialy, the combination of Prankster Swagger and Ditto is to hyper-offense what Kyurem-B is to stall.

Call it gimmick, cheap, uncompetitive, luck-based, whatever you want, but it can't be denied that it's a deadly combination that can heavily punish even skilled players if they make a single wrong move. The ability to take advantage of the opponent's attack boosts after Swagger has backfired (or after you deliberately made it so) and potentially sweep his whole team creates an incredible amount of pressure and a safety net that makes your team virtually sweep-proof, far more than any dedicated stall team can boast.

The only support Ditto requires to be effective is a single Prankster user. The rest of the team should be able to deal with stall (the playstyle Ditto is weak to, which is why it shouldn't be ranked higher than B) and worry about breaking Sturdy/sashes with hazards and/or weather.

 

[Arcticblast]

I'm with SmashBrosBrawl about Tyranitar. There's not one set that makes it as good as it is - it's all of what Tyranitar does that makes it good, and it does every one of those things incredibly well. Mixed bulk rivaling several titans locked away in Ubers and a power level in the upper echelons of the tier combined with an incredible movepool means you can tailor Tyranitar to just about any team and it will pull off its job easily. Mega Dragon Dance is just one of the sets it can run too - with a base form as powerful as Tyranitar, it can pull a Mega bluff and be DD Mega Tar or it can be something else entirely. I agree with keeping them ranked together as well.

 

[LoDart210]

They're slashed, its the same thing.

But not really.

Char x and y are s level threats, Charizard is not.

Mega manectric is ranked. No one even bothered with the base form.

 

[Mr. Rating]

Then do it. You haven't yet. Start now. Again: now. If my computer doesn't have some sort of virus in the next twenty four hours you will be remembered as a phony.Does this sound like a challenge? It sounds to me like it's a fucking challenge. Log on to #pokemon, I'll be waiting.

I'm with SmashBrosBrawl about Tyranitar. There's not one set that makes it as good as it is - it's all of what Tyranitar does that makes it good, and it does every one of those things incredibly well. Mixed bulk rivaling several titans locked away in Ubers and a power level in the upper echelons of the tier combined with an incredible movepool means you can tailor Tyranitar to just about any team and it will pull off its job easily. Mega Dragon Dance is just one of the sets it can run too - with a base form as powerful as Tyranitar, it can pull a Mega bluff and be DD Mega Tar or it can be something else entirely. I agree with keeping them ranked together as well.

Phony? Alright Holden Caulfield, I'll do it in 24 hours if that's your wish. I did say three days originally, but I can speed it up if you'd like. As for changing IP's, that will happen tomorrow when the fun starts. Also, Tyranitar? Love that Pokemon, just finished a Mega Tyranitar today, trying to get some experience with using it. I'm sure you're a great battler. :)

 

[Salt]

But not really.

Char x and y are s level threats, Charizard is not.

Mega manectric is ranked. No one even bothered with the base form.

Megas are combined (or should be in some cases) because you see the base forme first. Charizard X/Y are S-rank largely because you see the base forme and don't know which mega it is from the beginning, making base Charizard the epitome of unpredictability.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

But not really.

Char x and y are s level threats, Charizard is not.

Mega manectric is ranked. No one even bothered with the base form.

Hide

Ranking megas separately is stupid, you start with the base form and needs to make use of its strenghts to work. Manectric can abuse lightingrod, gyarados has completely different types between formes, mawile can use intimidate to gain more setup opportunities, garchomp can use the initial base 102 speed to outspeed things it couldnt after the transformation, scizor can bluff a choice band set, heracross is in the same boat as chomp and also has moxie, pinsir lacks electric and ice weakness, is only 2x rock weak and boasts useful abilities to help it sweep, the list goes on. Both the dubs and ubers viability rankings are ranking the pokemon and megas together, theres no reason why ou should be different.

 

[LoDart210]

Hide

Ranking megas separately is stupid, you start with the base form and needs to make use of its strenghts to work. Manectric can abuse lightingrod, gyarados has completely different types between formes, mawile can use intimidate to gain more setup opportunities, garchomp can use the initial base 102 speed to outspeed things it couldnt after the transformation, scizor can bluff a choice band set, heracross is in the same boat as chomp and also has moxie, pinsir lacks electric and ice weakness, is only 2x rock weak and boasts useful abilities to help it sweep, the list goes on. Both the dubs and ubers viability rankings are ranking the pokemon and megas together, theres no reason why ou should be different.

Don't get me wrong. I know the base form definitely comes into account when considering the ranking.

However it's silly to hold back a megas viability due to its base form. Tyranitar mega is very deadly with dragon dance, able sweep the majority of the tier, while also having all of (in fact more of) base ttar's bulk.

Yeah, tyranitar is a good a rank Pokemon but mega tyranitar is much more deadly, and I think that set warrants A+

But tyranitar shouldn't freeload off that X)

 

[LightningLuxray]

Don't get me wrong. I know the base form definitely comes into account when considering the ranking.

However it's silly to hold back a megas viability due to its base form. Tyranitar mega is very deadly with dragon dance, able sweep the majority of the tier, while also having all of (in fact more of) base ttar's bulk.

Yeah, tyranitar is a good a rank Pokemon but mega tyranitar is much more deadly, and I think that set warrants A+

But tyranitar shouldn't freeload off that X)

I'm going to have to agree with LoDart here. Mega Tyranitar has been on a lot of very successful teams, as after a Dragon Dance, it can easily net a sweep. Not only that, but it has great bulk (especially with Sandstorm) which allows it to set up very easy. With access to EdgeQuake as well as both Crunch and Ice Fang, Mega Tyranitar isn't the easiest to wall, either. All in all, I feel like Mega Tyranitar is definitely worthy of A+
Tyranitar, however, isn't. Sure, it's bulky, especially with items like Assault Vest. However, with Talonflame running moves like U-Turn more and more often, Tyraitar finds it harder and harder to switch into it. Not only that, but if it does decide to run Assault Vest, it can't set up Stealth Rocks, one of the main draws of using Tyranitar. While the offensive Choice Scarf/Band sets are still effective, Tyranitar is trapping a lot less this generation, as well as it doesn't have access to one of the best Dark type moves in the game, Knock Off. All in all, Tyranitar is by no means bad, but it isn't A+.

 

[Salt]

I'm going to push for Thundurus-T to be moved to B. C+ seems like a complete disregard for its capabilities, and the statement that it's completely outclassed by Thundurus-I is simply untrue. There are several sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I, namely Agility, Choice Scarf/Specs, and LO all-out attacker. With Agility, both formes are going to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a boost, and what use does Prankster Agility have? Thundurus-T is much better for Agility because it simply has more power, which is the only thing that matters in this case. Choice or other all attacking sets are also better with Thundurus-T because Prankster is wasted on Thundurus-I if no status moves are being used, and Volt Absorb is useful for catching a stray Electric attack to heal some Stealth Rock or Life Orb damage. It, again, has more power as well. The number of sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I are in great enough number to get it to be moved up to B.

As for mega rankings, specifically Tyranitar, saying that "Tyranitar doesn't deserve a free ride to A+ with Megatar" is silly. Megatar's existence supports regular Tyranitar to be moved to A+; it doesn't deter it. How do you know if it's a support regular Tyranitar or a DD Mega Tyranitar when the game starts? Spoiler: you don't. At the beginning, it's just another set that Tyranitar could potentially be running. Megas are not seperate Pokes from their base formes, so it doesn't make any sense for them to be ranked seperately.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Don't get me wrong. I know the base form definitely comes into account when considering the ranking.

However it's silly to hold back a megas viability due to its base form. Tyranitar mega is very deadly with dragon dance, able sweep the majority of the tier, while also having all of (in fact more of) base ttar's bulk.

Yeah, tyranitar is a good a rank Pokemon but mega tyranitar is much more deadly, and I think that set warrants A+

But tyranitar shouldn't freeload off that X)

Tyranitar is a pokemon, mega tyranitar is a set. Theres nothing being held back here, its the complete opposite of that. All of tyranitar sets combined make it an A+ threat so i dunno what youre even talking about here.

 

[LightningLuxray]

I'm going to push for Thundurus-T to be moved to B. C+ seems like a complete disregard for its capabilities, and the statement that it's completely outclassed by Thundurus-I is simply untrue. There are several sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I, namely Agility, Choice Scarf/Specs, and LO all-out attacker. With Agility, both formes are going to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a boost, and what use does Prankster Agility have? Thundurus-T is much better for Agility because it simply has more power, which is the only thing that matters in this case. Choice or other all attacking sets are also better with Thundurus-T because Prankster is wasted on Thundurus-I if no status moves are being used, and Volt Absorb is useful for catching a stray Electric attack to heal some Stealth Rock or Life Orb damage. It, again, has more power as well. The number of sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I are in great enough number to get it to be moved up to B.

As for mega rankings, specifically Tyranitar, saying that "Tyranitar doesn't deserve a free ride to A+ with Megatar" is silly. Megatar's existence supports regular Tyranitar to be moved to A+; it doesn't deter it. How do you know if it's a support regular Tyranitar or a DD Mega Tyranitar when the game starts? Spoiler: you don't. At the beginning, it's just another set that Tyranitar could potentially be running. Megas are not seperate Pokes from their base formes, so it doesn't make any sense for them to be ranked seperately.

Yes, you're 100% correct in saying that Tyranitar gets a buff from Mega Tyranitar's success. However, this buff is not enough to push Tyranitar to A+.

 

[Salt]

Yes, you're 100% correct in saying that Tyranitar gets a buff from Mega Tyranitar's success. However, this buff is not enough to push Tyranitar to A+.

Could you elaborate on why? I certainly think Tyranitar having access to such a powerful set shouldn't hold it back from A+ at all. It has the perfect combination of insane bulk, insane power, and good enough speed to be an excellent A+ Dragon Dancer. Not to mention the regular Tyranitar sets wall a ton of shit because of the bulk from Sand Stream combined with its own natural bulk.

 

[LoDart210]

Tyranitar is a pokemon, mega tyranitar is a set. Theres nothing being held back here, its the complete opposite of that. All of tyranitar sets combined make it an A+ threat so i dunno what youre even talking about here.

In which case, my understanding of how megas are viewed by Smogon is incorrect. If the mega evolution is merely considered one set out of many, due to using an item, then yes you're right and I still think it should be A+ thanks to that.

I tend to view the mega as a seperate pokemon due to the fact that megas can run many and different sets on their own, which is why I keep talking about Mega Tyranitar seperately.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Could you elaborate on why? I certainly think Tyranitar having access to such a powerful set shouldn't hold it back from A+ at all. It has the perfect combination of insane bulk, insane power, and good enough speed to be an excellent A+ Dragon Dancer. Not to mention the regular Tyranitar sets wall a ton of shit because of the bulk from Sand Stream combined with its own natural bulk.

I've already made a post above explaining why I feel Tyranitar doesn't deserve A+. Post #3705, to be exact.

 

[Pipotchi]

Hide

Ranking megas separately is stupid, you start with the base form and needs to make use of its strenghts to work. Manectric can abuse lightingrod, gyarados has completely different types between formes, mawile can use intimidate to gain more setup opportunities, garchomp can use the initial base 102 speed to outspeed things it couldnt after the transformation, scizor can bluff a choice band set, heracross is in the same boat as chomp and also has moxie, pinsir lacks electric and ice weakness, is only 2x rock weak and boasts useful abilities to help it sweep, the list goes on. Both the dubs and ubers viability rankings are ranking the pokemon and megas together, theres no reason why ou should be different.

The way I see it, you have to consider the base form when you place the mega evolution- because as you said, the mega evolution has to spend at least SOME time in the base form before it can mega-evolve, so the base always will affect its standing. Look at pokemon like Banette who have such a pathetic base form that it pulls down the ranking of their mega evolution which would otherwise be good as a standalone pokemon- having to waste a turn without prankster almost always leaves you unable to do what you want to do.

But do you have to consider the mega evolution when placing the base form? I'd argue no because the base form does not have any interaction with the mega evolution. For instance, should we rank a genesect+heatran combo separately to their individual standings? Genesect gets a "buff" by Heatran's existence on the team to discourage fire attacks, in the same way that Tyranitar gets a "buff" to its normal sets by having the threat of being mega tyranitar. They are both written as completely separate entities on the list and should therefore not be grouped together.

If megas are going to be written separately on the list then they need separate placements from the base forms because by splitting them into two, you are explicitly saying that the pokemon Tyranitar is not running the Mega Tyranitar set. If we are including Mega Tyranitar in the options of the regular Tyranitar sets then Mega Tyranitar should not even be written on the list. But while they have been written separately they should be surely graded separately.. at least thats how I see it. I dont know whether Megas should be written on the list whatsoever though. It does seem slightly pointless, but its nice to take the opportunity to objectively split a pokemon into its different "sets" in the tier list without it getting too crazy and overcomplicated with too many sets.

Edit: Looking at the first page I'm actually quite confused as to why regular Gardevoir has achieved B rank. Is the base form really that good?.. All other instance of non-OU worthy base forms have just excluded the base form from the list and the megas written standalone, so I am definitely a bit confused by whats going on there o__O