It's still Scizor, basically; just as threatening as ever. I'd be perfectly fine using up a Mega Slot on him because he is perhaps the most dangerous bulky setup sweeper in OU. Unlike other Megas he didn't gain a lot that made him different or DRASTICALLY better than his Non-Mega counterpart, but he's still f*cking Scizor. Whatever rank Scizor is, so should Mega Scizor be.
I would agree but we are not discussing scolipede at this time as he is not A or A- wait until the next phase in order to nominate Scolipede.
I very much agree with that. I have just started using Mega Scizor, and I have been using him in a defensive role. He takes physical hits very well now, and while he can't take many special hits, the extra special bulk is extremely helpful to have at times. He also has great utility. I am consistently able to knock off two pokemon's items per battle, and with U-Turn he fits the role of bulky pivot. I personally use Roost and Bullet Punch as my last two moves (Stealth Rock doesn't bother my team so I don't need Defog), and it helps his survivability and tanking ability greatly, while the latter helps greatly with getting the finishing hits. And while I don't use Defog now, I did at one point and Mega Scizor was amazing at using it. It was reliably able to get in and Defog, and could get out if it needed to with U-Turn. I think people greatly underestimate the utility of Mega Scizor.
You make good points, but I'd like to nitpick (as always):Right, since we're on the subject of Bisharp, I'm going to say something really outrageous. Remember when I said, Deo-D approaches S? I don't think it does anymore. Deoxys-D for S-rank.
I have not gone mad.
If you've ever played the higher ladder, you know what Deosharp is, and probably struggled with it too. That style of HO, that litters your field with caltrops and makes your checks to ridiculously powerful offensive threats non-checks because they're taking 18-25% damage switching in and probably paralysed too. It has been taking the metagame by storm in recent times with its terrifying efficacy, and with its biggest obstacles M-Lucario and Genesect gone, it is right now probably the most powerful influence on the meta.
If we're talking about Bisharp in context of this team-archetype, in which it most commonly features, I believe, it is a mistake to attribute the massive success of these teams to Bisharp himself. While Bisharp is a great offensive powerhouse, and it will devastate your team for clearing hazards at the wrong time, in the end is it just one component of Deosharp. Without multiple hazards Bisharp's strongest trait loses relevance, turning it into another slow, frail physical sweeper with an unreliable priority move. The real motor of Deosharp is not Bisharp, but Deoxys-D.
Let's take a look at the definitions of S-rank and A-rank, and see which one best describes Deoxys-D.
As a support Pokémon and a dedicated hazards lead, Deoxys-D, when it enters the field, controls the dynamic of the early-game; it almost never gives the opponent free turns. To analyse this in a "Guide to Making the Perfect Lead", I'll reiterate the most common moveset.
Deoxys-Defence @ Red Card
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave / Magic Coat
Why S-rank for Deoxys-D? Because unlike the A-rank supporters, which could potentially give free turns to the opponent, Deoxys-D allows very little room for counterplay. You are guaranteed at the very least Stealth Rock and one Spikes layer, probably more; step 2 above shows, why fast Taunters, even Pranksters, don't cut it as counterplay. Because of this, it is extremely easy to use. Probably the only thing you have to worry about are those five things, that can OHKO you - and you can always predict a Pursuit from Bandtar and stay in, getting it Redcarded and allowing you more free hazards, or just lead with something else than Deo-D and double-switch.
- Stealth Rock and Spikes: Step one - shouldn't need explanation. Set up SR and stack Spikes.
- Taunt and Magic Coat: Step two - work against opposing leads. Taunt will prevent slower leads from setting up hazards themselves, and in addition prevent their own Taunts and the hated Toxic poisoning. Deoxys-D's quite decent (for a lead) natural speed serves well to do this. Had it not been for Magic Coat, Prankster Taunt (by which I mean Thundurus - sorry Sableye :^( ) would have been a big thorn on Deo-D's side - and Deo-D possesses just the right move to prevent this.
- Red Card: Step three - make the opponent pay for trying to kill you. Deoxys-D is probably one of the bulkiest things in this metagame; the list of things, that can OHKO 252/0 Deo-D are as follows:
- M-Heracross' Pin Missile;
- CB Heracross' Megahorn;
- Crawdaunt's Knock Off;
- LO Bisharp's Knock Off (81.3% chance of OHKO);
- AV Escavalier's Megahorn (81.3% chance of OHKO);
- CB Tyranitar's Crunch (75% chance of OHKO);
- Only five mons (not counting the mega), and only Tyranitar and Bisharp particularly common - and basta. Nothing else can kill Deo-D before it sets up at least two layers hazards. CB Scizor can't do it. LO Aegislash can't. Gengar can't. And even the KO's from Bisharp, Tyranitar and Escavalier can be avoided by using an even bulkier spread with Bold nature and defence-EVs. With anything else than the list above, what do you get for trying to kill it as quick as possible? Instant phased, maybe to something without SE attacks or even a wall, allowing Deo-D to set up another layer for free. Combined with Step 2, the overall effect is "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Getting three layers of spikes is ridiculously easy this way.
- Thunder Wave: Step four (optional) - additional support. Things in HO hate being revenge-killed, so what better way to fix this issue than crippling one of the revenge-killers, making a non-issue for them? Even the full paralysis chance, while not to be depended upon, helps out sweepers by potentially giving free turns.
But what about support? You can't just kamikaze your Deoxys, you'll get your hazards defogged away! But then again, don't already S-ranks Pinsir and Charizard require support in the form of hazard control? Deoxys is something like this, but of the opposite end in the spectrum. Deoxys-D is most commonly paired with something provoking a "chilling effect" against Defog, and probably a Spinblocker too. Bisharp is the most common one, but it's not the only Defiant user. There is also the less common Defiant Thundurus (another S-rank) which is, in my experience at least, even more effective against deterring Defoggers; Mandibuzz and Skarmory might try to tank a Bisharp, but they won't dare give something with SE STAB a free Swords Dance!
On the other hand, simply applying constant offensive pressure can be just enough to "prevent" a Defog or Rapid Spin. It's how a lot of HO operates; be relentless enough to not give any free turns to defoggers or spinners. Many teams don't carry the full monty of Deo-D/Sharp/Slash; they might carry just one of Slash or Sharp, and sometimes even neither. Things like Bisharp just makes it easier; after all, even if you've got the free +2, your hazards are gone. But you're applying a tremendous amount of offensive pressure in exchange for this. But they can't ever do this without Deoxys-D.
First of all, I totally support Deoxys-D moving to A+, it's the best suicide hazard setter available. However, Deoxys-S should stay solid A+. You're discounting the life orb set too easily: while it doesn't have particularly impressive attacking stats, it makes up for them by essentially being a Choice Scarfer with a boosting item (that can also switch moves). If you compare its attacking power to that of other Choice Scarfers, it does a lot better (calcs using coverage moves because you already admitted that Psycho Boost is powerful):
Right, since we're on the subject of Bisharp, I'm going to say something really outrageous. Remember when I said, Deo-D approaches S? I don't think it does anymore. Deoxys-D for S-rank.
I have not gone mad.
If you've ever played the higher ladder, you know what Deosharp is, and probably struggled with it too. That style of HO, that litters your field with caltrops and makes your checks to ridiculously powerful offensive threats non-checks because they're taking 18-25% damage switching in and probably paralysed too. It has been taking the metagame by storm in recent times with its terrifying efficacy, and with its biggest obstacles M-Lucario and Genesect gone, it is right now probably the most powerful influence on the meta.
If we're talking about Bisharp in context of this team-archetype, in which it most commonly features, I believe, it is a mistake to attribute the massive success of these teams to Bisharp himself. While Bisharp is a great offensive powerhouse, and it will devastate your team for clearing hazards at the wrong time, in the end is it just one component of Deosharp. Without multiple hazards Bisharp's strongest trait loses relevance, turning it into another slow, frail physical sweeper with an unreliable priority move. The real motor of Deosharp is not Bisharp, but Deoxys-D.
Let's take a look at the definitions of S-rank and A-rank, and see which one best describes Deoxys-D.
As a support Pokémon and a dedicated hazards lead, Deoxys-D, when it enters the field, controls the dynamic of the early-game; it almost never gives the opponent free turns. To analyse this in a "Guide to Making the Perfect Lead", I'll reiterate the most common moveset.
Deoxys-Defence @ Red Card
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave / Magic Coat
Why S-rank for Deoxys-D? Because unlike the A-rank supporters, which could potentially give free turns to the opponent, Deoxys-D allows very little room for counterplay. You are guaranteed at the very least Stealth Rock and one Spikes layer, probably more; step 2 above shows, why fast Taunters, even Pranksters, don't cut it as counterplay. Because of this, it is extremely easy to use. Probably the only thing you have to worry about are those six things, that can OHKO you - and you can always predict a Pursuit from Bandtar and stay in, getting it Redcarded and allowing you more free hazards, or just lead with something else than Deo-D and double-switch. Magic Bouncers are a full stop to Deo-D, but then again, how oft do you see Espeon in a better match, let alone M-Absol? Aside from being niche mons at best, they are extremely frail, therefore hard to switch in with such offensive pressure in HO (Bisharp sure loves switching into Espeon lol)
- Stealth Rock and Spikes: Step one - shouldn't need explanation. Set up SR and stack Spikes.
- Taunt and Magic Coat: Step two - work against opposing leads. Taunt will prevent slower leads from setting up hazards themselves, and in addition prevent their own Taunts and the hated Toxic poisoning. Deoxys-D's quite decent (for a lead) natural speed serves well to do this. Had it not been for Magic Coat, Prankster Taunt (by which I mean Thundurus - sorry Sableye :^( ) would have been a big thorn on Deo-D's side - and Deo-D possesses just the right move to prevent this.
- Red Card: Step three - make the opponent pay for trying to kill you. Deoxys-D is probably one of the bulkiest things in this metagame; the list of things, that can OHKO 252/0 Deo-D are as follows:
- M-Heracross' Pin Missile;
- CB Heracross' Megahorn;
- Crawdaunt's Knock Off;
- LO Bisharp's Knock Off (81.3% chance of OHKO);
- AV Escavalier's Megahorn (81.3% chance of OHKO);
- CB Tyranitar's Crunch (75% chance of OHKO);
- LO Aegislash's Shadow Ball (50% chance of OHKO);
- Only six mons (not counting the mega), and only three are particularly common - and basta. Nothing else can kill Deo-D before it sets up at least two layers hazards. CB Scizor can't do it. Gengar can't. And even the KO's from Bisharp, Tyranitar and Escavalier can be avoided by using an even bulkier spread with Bold nature and defence-EVs. With anything else than the list above, what do you get for trying to kill it as quick as possible? Instant phased, maybe to something without SE attacks or even a wall, allowing Deo-D to set up another layer for free. Combined with Step 2, the overall effect is "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Getting three layers of spikes is ridiculously easy this way.
- Thunder Wave: Step four (optional) - additional support. Things in HO hate being revenge-killed, so what better way to fix this issue than crippling one of the revenge-killers, making a non-issue for them? Even the full paralysis chance, while not to be depended upon, helps out sweepers by potentially giving free turns.
But what about support? You can't just kamikaze your Deoxys, you'll get your hazards defogged away! But then again, don't already S-ranks Pinsir and Charizard require support in the form of hazard control? Deoxys is something like this, but of the opposite end in the spectrum. Deoxys-D is most commonly paired with something provoking a "chilling effect" against Defog, and probably a Spinblocker too. Bisharp is the most common one, but it's not the only Defiant user. There is also the less common Defiant Thundurus (another S-rank) which is, in my experience at least, even more effective against deterring Defoggers; Mandibuzz and Skarmory might try to tank a Bisharp, but they won't dare give something with SE STAB a free Swords Dance!
On the other hand, simply applying constant offensive pressure can be just enough to "prevent" a Defog or Rapid Spin. It's how a lot of HO operates; be relentless enough to not give any free turns to defoggers or spinners. Many teams don't carry the full monty of Deo-D/Sharp/Slash; they might carry just one of Slash or Sharp, and sometimes even neither. Things like Bisharp just makes it easier; after all, even if you've got the free +2, your hazards are gone. But you're applying a tremendous amount of offensive pressure in exchange for this. But they can't ever do this without Deoxys-D.
Deoxys-D fits the bolded portion to a 'T'. Does Deo-D give up free turns? Hell no. If you try to set up, you get para'd or Taunted. It supports its teammates very well, giving an instant offensive advantage and enabling hard-hitting teammates to put in serious work on opposing teams being battered by hazards. It also indirectly supports Defiant users Bisharp and Thundurus, which are given an immense boost in viability simply because of Deo-D's existence. Such Pokemon keep constant offensive pressure on teams looking to Defog away the hazards Deo-D brings. Particularly prominent is the infamous hazards core (Deo-D + Aegi + Bisharp), which is extraordinary at maintaining hazards and threatening opposing teams. The support Deo-D provides for sweepers such as Manaphy, Mega Pinsir, and more is ridiculous, adding to their potency immensely. You can argue that Defog is too big to keep it from S, but I think Pokemon like Bisharp and physical/mixed Thundurus that pressure Defoggers and can take advantage of one stray move make up for this. Deo-D fits the definition of S Rank exactly; I can definitely see it there.
I personally think it's more of an issue of Gyarados-M moving up and not Gyarados going down. Gyarados with intimidate is a great addition to a bulky offensive team. Gyarados-M does have more bulk, but it lacks an ability that can help the team in a pinch (Molt breaker EQ's are still very helpful though). While Gyarados does struggle with Rotom-W, Quagsire, and unaware Clefable, that is somewhat mitigated by it's ability to deal with Fighting types and bug types much more easily thank MegaDos. Intimidate Gyarados can set up on Scizor and Conkeldurr, while Megados is forced out.
It's just that fire weakness that gets me. Every time. Not only is Heatran as common as ever but fire is such a common coverage move. I just don't see how Scizor can be comfortable in a role that involves him staying in or trying to set up. CB is far more dangerous IMO considering that gen VI often seems to favour momentum.
