Yeah, OU will always welcome one more nuke to work with- especially a Fairy-type nuke. We don't have one of those yet.
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Pokémon The Eternal Flower (or: Floette-E)
- Thread starter sidakarya
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"Light of Ruin sounds delicious."
"Light of Ruin? Mmm, sounds good. How will a Base 150 Attack Iron Head Taste?"
EDIT: Don't give me the calcs for HP Ground on Heatran and Aegislash 'cause the standard set is Choiced, which means you can't fire back with HP Ground and are forced to switch. And HP Fire is before HP Ground, so once Heatran finds that out, Floette-E has failed. Plus, you have Protect on Heatran for scouting HP Ground and King's Shield on Aegislash to scout for both HP Ground and HP Fire on a Floette-E switch in. Then you can switch accordingly.
Floette-E will no doubt be a Threat for unsuspecting and unprepared Teams, but since I run both Heatran and Aegislash, I LOL at that. Floette-E will probably be like something you should always have an answer for just like Talonflame.
so floette-e is a terrible pokemon because you run the two best steels in the entire game on the same team
obviously a floette-e user won't mindlessly spam specs LOR if the opponent has something on their team that can tank it easily! you didn't spam choiced outrages back in 4th gen until you have eliminated all the steel types from the game.
It's not terrible, you guys just think Light of Ruin is unstoppable.
nobody here is thinking LOR is unstoppable. there is no way fairy will ever have the amazing coverage that gen 4/5 dragons had when steels were the only things that resist it.
LOR is a nuke, yes, but we have had other nukes before that eventually weren't good enough to be used often to be considered OU (see: darm, rampardos).
anyone can tell that heatran and aegislash will be excellent switch-ins to floette due to their resistances. i think that's pretty much a given, the same as how sylveon is the best switch-in to hydreigon, or rotom-w being something that you shouldn't bring in on venusaur.
the protect argument also applies for every choiced attacker in the game btw so i dont really see how that is a point against floette. you can use protect to scout what move is the opponent's scarfchomp is locking himself into: doesn't mean that scarfchomp is anywhere near a bad set at all.
Wait until the third version; if it's not a sequal like B2W2 was, third versions have always expanded the story loads
Rampardos has other problems like terrible typing and speed. Darmanitan is probably a better comparison to floette-e - both powerful nukes that are frail and can kill themselves quickly and punch holes in anything that doesn't resist their moves and is bulky.
Hell, darmanitan could even pair up with floette-e, smacking steel/fire types with EQ, rock slide, or flare blitz
First, that isn't a valid argument as it goes for every specs user. Second, very few bad players run Protect on every Pokemon in their team as it wastes a moveslot if its not being used correctly. So no, more than 80% of the time you will not be using Protect to see if Floette-E is using LoR.
No actually, your argument isn't valid.
My first post told you Heatran and Aegislash eat up Light of Ruin and HP Fire should be used before thinking of HP Ground. Why? Ferrothorn, Scizor, etc. Use HP Ground, and you'll never beat Ferrothorn, and can be easily switched into Levitating Pokemon. Not to mention Balloon Excadrill can easily switch in on HP Ground and then use Iron Head because at Jolly Nature, he outspeeds Modest Max Speed Floette-E.
All you did was try and give me HP Ground Calcs, which I told you aren't even needed.
- Heatran doesn't even need to K.O Floette. He can just set up Stealth Rock and Protect/Roar. He's a Check.
- Aegislash is both a Check and Counter to Floette-E.
Now you're saying Protect isn't relevant? Hello? Gliscor, Chansey and other Stall Pokemon?
- Chansey is a much more reliable switch in than Heatran because Floette will take Massive Recoil from Chansey, which means she can't even Spam her Signature move without taking Massive Recoil.
Oh, and Gliscor is also immune HP Ground, and has Protect, so you can easily switch between Heatran and Gliscor if Heatran meets Floette-E and Protects on HP Ground. Floette-E isn't even that great and can be played around. HP Fire to hit Steels and so you can't be locked into HP Ground on Levitating Pokemon.
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We already know that Heatran and Aegislash dont give three shits about LOR, which is why you dont mindlessly spam LOR.
The same logic in which you say we shld use HP fire over ground can also be applied for the reverse. Use HP Ground, and you will never beat ferro. Use HP Fire, and you will never beat heatran.
Protect is indeed relevant but you failed to address the issue that every choiced attacker in the game also suffers from the exact same problem. thats like saying dragons suck because fairiea can come in on outrage.
LOR is not an instant win button and i think all of us have already somewhat gotten to that conclusion. Floette doesnt win games by spamming LOR.
The same logic in which you say we shld use HP fire over ground can also be applied for the reverse. Use HP Ground, and you will never beat ferro. Use HP Fire, and you will never beat heatran.
Protect is indeed relevant but you failed to address the issue that every choiced attacker in the game also suffers from the exact same problem. thats like saying dragons suck because fairiea can come in on outrage.
LOR is not an instant win button and i think all of us have already somewhat gotten to that conclusion. Floette doesnt win games by spamming LOR.
This whole thread reeks of delicious BW Haxorus dreams. Like holy shit this Pokemon is so borderline ass; I love it.
90% of the calcs in this thread just show how hard Floette has to murder itself to try to brute-force its way past Steel-, Fire-, or Poison-type Pokemon in the tier because it has no coverage. Someone call Rampardos and Tyrantrum because OU finally thinks their Head Smash strategyis viable again was ever viable works.
The calcs are nice but every Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-type in the tier can take one hit from Floette, even Talonflame. If they outspeed that Modest Floette (think Charizard) then Floette is forced to switch or die in most cases. And even then, Floette has to come into battle in the first place. This Pokemon is so ass against Offensive teams. That defense does it no favors. Like every Pokemon on an offensive team is going to rush it down.
When I look at Light of Ruin, I see Draco Meteor. I mean it has similar coverage, power, and resists as Draco so it's only going to be about as effective as Draco in this meta. It always hits hard but you can't heal that recoil damage by switching, which makes it a much more permanent draw-back and kills Floette's ability to switch-in later, which it desperately needs with base 92 speed, dropped even further by a Modest nature if you want to attempt to Darmanitan your way through Fairy-resists.
When I look at Floette, I see a fatter, faster Gardevoir with a better typing and a horrid movepool. It looks like it would best be played as a Pokemon that you're not going to switch-in haphazardly but has the bulk to throw its weight around a little on the battlefield. It wants to play like a Hydreigon if that makes any sense to anyone. Also, 128 Sp.Atk is not extremely high, especially on a Pokemon that has to run Hidden Power to clear most Steel-types. Gardevoir has the same Sp.Atk stat for reference and Floette only beats Gardevoir's special bulk by some pocket change numbers. The real difference is that speed and lack of coverage for better and worse.
It's still better than Florges but that's setting the bar pretty damn low; lower than its number of coverage options; lower than my ladder score; lower than the number of people going to agree with me on this; low. The speed is what's really going to kill this Pokemon. And if it runs Scarf, it can't break Fairy-resists. Stall and Balance is going to hate it maybe but man is offense gonna walk all over this thing.
On the bright side, Exploud's gets to have its niche(?) for another year/whenever/if ever they release Floette-E or until people realize Tinted Lens Yanmega is semi-legit...or Manaphy even...or Modest Specs Keldeo, that's practically a simulation of Floette power-/speed-wise right?
90% of the calcs in this thread just show how hard Floette has to murder itself to try to brute-force its way past Steel-, Fire-, or Poison-type Pokemon in the tier because it has no coverage. Someone call Rampardos and Tyrantrum because OU finally thinks their Head Smash strategy
The calcs are nice but every Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-type in the tier can take one hit from Floette, even Talonflame. If they outspeed that Modest Floette (think Charizard) then Floette is forced to switch or die in most cases. And even then, Floette has to come into battle in the first place. This Pokemon is so ass against Offensive teams. That defense does it no favors. Like every Pokemon on an offensive team is going to rush it down.
When I look at Light of Ruin, I see Draco Meteor. I mean it has similar coverage, power, and resists as Draco so it's only going to be about as effective as Draco in this meta. It always hits hard but you can't heal that recoil damage by switching, which makes it a much more permanent draw-back and kills Floette's ability to switch-in later, which it desperately needs with base 92 speed, dropped even further by a Modest nature if you want to attempt to Darmanitan your way through Fairy-resists.
When I look at Floette, I see a fatter, faster Gardevoir with a better typing and a horrid movepool. It looks like it would best be played as a Pokemon that you're not going to switch-in haphazardly but has the bulk to throw its weight around a little on the battlefield. It wants to play like a Hydreigon if that makes any sense to anyone. Also, 128 Sp.Atk is not extremely high, especially on a Pokemon that has to run Hidden Power to clear most Steel-types. Gardevoir has the same Sp.Atk stat for reference and Floette only beats Gardevoir's special bulk by some pocket change numbers. The real difference is that speed and lack of coverage for better and worse.
It's still better than Florges but that's setting the bar pretty damn low; lower than its number of coverage options; lower than my ladder score; lower than the number of people going to agree with me on this; low. The speed is what's really going to kill this Pokemon. And if it runs Scarf, it can't break Fairy-resists. Stall and Balance is going to hate it maybe but man is offense gonna walk all over this thing.
On the bright side, Exploud's gets to have its niche(?) for another year/whenever/if ever they release Floette-E or until people realize Tinted Lens Yanmega is semi-legit...or Manaphy even...or Modest Specs Keldeo, that's practically a simulation of Floette power-/speed-wise right?
Victini 2.0 comin thru
I'm pretty sure that with all the fire types and steel types in ou, floette will probably be UU due to its piss poor coverage. (or BL) I kind of think that tryng to use Light of ruin would waste its potential. I would like to think that a specially defensive set may be more up its ally. Max Spdef and HP, and you have essentially a florges with more offensive presence. Combine a nice speed for a specially defensive pokemon and it seems like it can be really useful in the lower tiers. But what do I know?
Now that I think about it it seems more comparable to meloetta then anything else just in its overall role.
Now that I think about it it seems more comparable to meloetta then anything else just in its overall role.
More like Victini -Nano, where the nano is smaller, lighter, but also way less powerful and useful than the original ipod (victini is better than this...).
Has anyone considered this as a set idea?
Floette-E@Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP 252 Def 8 Spe
Light of Ruin
Wish
Protect
Toxic/Aromatherapy/Calm Mind
Taking a page from Florges' and Sylveon's book, you basically use this as a wall that can hit back...HARD. Yes the recoil is a pain but brave bird skarmory has been OU for what, 3 gens now? Not to mention Wood Hammer Chesnaught/Trevenant.
Floette-E@Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP 252 Def 8 Spe
Light of Ruin
Wish
Protect
Toxic/Aromatherapy/Calm Mind
Taking a page from Florges' and Sylveon's book, you basically use this as a wall that can hit back...HARD. Yes the recoil is a pain but brave bird skarmory has been OU for what, 3 gens now? Not to mention Wood Hammer Chesnaught/Trevenant.
Brave Bird's recoil is NOT the same. Head Smash recoil and 'wall' do not go together.
are we seriously comparing brave bird skarmory to floette-E
skarmory actually does other things to help its team other than brave bird including hazard setting, defogging and being an actual competent physical tank with a much superior recovery move. you can say the same for chesnaught by replacing every mention of skarm/bb with the appropriate move and removing defog and adding bulletproof.
floette's best move 3HKOs herself and her wishes are worth a puny 170something HP. wishpass is pretty bad lol when you have the two pink blobs who has double that size of wishes.
there's a gigantic ass diff between 50% recoil and 33% recoil, and for something with floette's hp that's actually pretty fucking relevant
skarmory actually does other things to help its team other than brave bird including hazard setting, defogging and being an actual competent physical tank with a much superior recovery move. you can say the same for chesnaught by replacing every mention of skarm/bb with the appropriate move and removing defog and adding bulletproof.
floette's best move 3HKOs herself and her wishes are worth a puny 170something HP. wishpass is pretty bad lol when you have the two pink blobs who has double that size of wishes.
there's a gigantic ass diff between 50% recoil and 33% recoil, and for something with floette's hp that's actually pretty fucking relevant
If the Specs set is used, the flower would have a similar role as Specs Latios in 5th gen since Dragon type moves were spammable just like how Fairy type moves currently are. But Floette obviously have lower survivability (any Physical priority is going to deal solid damage), and lower SAtk than Latios too. Seeing this I don't think it would be too much as a threat. Blissey would definitely wall it, and pokes like Heatran can take its Light Of Ruin at ease.
I am not sure if Wish would work on Floette-E but if Specs is the most viable set on it I am going to say it has a high chance of falling into BL/UU
I am not sure if Wish would work on Floette-E but if Specs is the most viable set on it I am going to say it has a high chance of falling into BL/UU
Sorry but 50% recoil on anything is horrible especially if you're playing it as a specs sweeper.
Floette-E sounds lame. Too slow, low HP, and bad coverage is what this guy really amounts to.
Light of Ruin sounds neat and WOW has 140 BP and is fairy type! Pretty cool. Oh yeah 50% recoil, well hopefully it gets rock head *bleeding sarcasm*
Floette-E sounds lame. Too slow, low HP, and bad coverage is what this guy really amounts to.
Light of Ruin sounds neat and WOW has 140 BP and is fairy type! Pretty cool. Oh yeah 50% recoil, well hopefully it gets rock head *bleeding sarcasm*
Actually at first Talonflame was underhyped, even when Gale Wings was discovered lol.
It is confirmed that it can't use the Eviolite.
probably it's not that great standalone, but it sounds good when you pair it with another fairy, such as Azumarill, Gardevoir or Mawile, similar to the birdspam, where Floette takes the role of Staraptor.
Iirc Light of Ruin has the same power of Reckless Brave Bird/Double Edge(LoR is 140, Reckless Double Edge is 144), and the Special Attack of Floette is a little higher than Staraptor's.
252 SpA Choice Specs Floette-E Light of Ruin vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
So the lesser recoil and the better speed tier are what really makes Staraptor better.
Doesn't Normal (w
Doesn't Normal (when attacking) have better coverage too? Staraptor is better then Floette-E, anyway. (Imo)
What tier will this be? I say UU if not BL.
Who cares about lesser recoil/slightly higher speed when you can switch in easier? Staraptor is never able to switch in, and relies on prediction or double switches. Floette is also not afraid of burn. I think it will be better than staraptor, and be someting like B+ tier.
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