Did I say otherwise? I said that ZardY definitely appreciates the sun but to say that he needs it 100% of the time is BS as Fire blast still hits hard regardless of Sun (though he would wish to still have sun)
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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He doesn't need 100% of the time, but most of the time you'd better switch it out after the sun ends. That's what I meant.
It depends on the situation. If your opponent has 2 pokemon left and neither is Water type or a check/counter to Zard Y, spamming Fire Blast is the right idea even if Sun ends.
I've beem using Specially Defensive Charizard X for a few days now, quite surprised how well its working as I haven't found much that can 2HKO it yet from what is normally seen.
I originally started using:
Charizard@Charizardite X
Blaze->Tough Claws
Careful
248 HP / 8 Att / 252 SpD
-Will-O-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Roost
-Substitute
What this thing does better than other ZardXs from what I see is that it isn't really scared of Azumarills. CB Azumarill Play Rough does if I remember correctly around 40% max if Zard X got the burn on it. Burned Aqua Jet doesn't even break its Sub. Will-O-Wisping before its Belly Drum is a bit risky though as I think Play Rough can OHKO but of course not when your behind a Sub. Aqua Jet from all what I've seen have been 3HKOs but Azumarill sheds half its health on top of Burn Damage so it really limits how long it can stay alive.
Charizard@Charizardite X
Blaze->Tough Claws
Jolly
248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spd
-Will-O-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Roost
-Substitute
Based on a EV spread I saw above decided to get the same stats (with a different nature to match my in game ZardX) allowing it to outspeed base 70s and neutral base 80s (meaning it can OHKO Adamant Dragonite w/ Dragon Claw if it switches into Stealth Rock as an example on useful things it can outspeed). Though this thing hates fairies though w/o Toxic (which you can Sub on) they cant really do anything to Zard X either but most have recovery moves so Zard X cant rely on Will-O-Wisp to stall them out.
Also this Zard X is one of the best Electric type (checks?/counter? don't know what each mean) as pretty much Every Electric type I've ever seen cant 2HKO and even better cant break its Sub w/ their usual coverage moves(this is w/ Careful 252 SpD need to do some more calcs for Jolly 244 SpD). Though I may be forgetting someone so don't take my word on it.
I originally started using:
Charizard@Charizardite X
Blaze->Tough Claws
Careful
248 HP / 8 Att / 252 SpD
-Will-O-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Roost
-Substitute
What this thing does better than other ZardXs from what I see is that it isn't really scared of Azumarills. CB Azumarill Play Rough does if I remember correctly around 40% max if Zard X got the burn on it. Burned Aqua Jet doesn't even break its Sub. Will-O-Wisping before its Belly Drum is a bit risky though as I think Play Rough can OHKO but of course not when your behind a Sub. Aqua Jet from all what I've seen have been 3HKOs but Azumarill sheds half its health on top of Burn Damage so it really limits how long it can stay alive.
Charizard@Charizardite X
Blaze->Tough Claws
Jolly
248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spd
-Will-O-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Roost
-Substitute
Based on a EV spread I saw above decided to get the same stats (with a different nature to match my in game ZardX) allowing it to outspeed base 70s and neutral base 80s (meaning it can OHKO Adamant Dragonite w/ Dragon Claw if it switches into Stealth Rock as an example on useful things it can outspeed). Though this thing hates fairies though w/o Toxic (which you can Sub on) they cant really do anything to Zard X either but most have recovery moves so Zard X cant rely on Will-O-Wisp to stall them out.
Also this Zard X is one of the best Electric type (checks?/counter? don't know what each mean) as pretty much Every Electric type I've ever seen cant 2HKO and even better cant break its Sub w/ their usual coverage moves(this is w/ Careful 252 SpD need to do some more calcs for Jolly 244 SpD). Though I may be forgetting someone so don't take my word on it.
Ive just been toying with a chary set that is solely designed to kill its switch ins...im sorry if someone else posted something like this in the last 42 pages lol
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
So i have 2 ideas, actually ill just post the other set, ok so for the first one you are suppose to have zard out on something that will switch into their chary counter and then you proceed to destroy whatever it is, assuming dragon rush hits lol. since most latias are specially defensive(pretty sure they all are) after a dragon dance dragon rush will kill, earthquake OHKOs heatran and flare blitz 2hkos chansey. This set would probably only be useful to catch someone off guard, but I think it mught be cool to use.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
This set is the money set i think, because the whole point here is to try your hardest to bluff charx, and right now from what ive seen, quagsire is a very popular charx counter, so it may be hard to do but itd be pretty epic f you convinced a quagsire to switch into chary. And even if it doesnt work then you still have a very fast chary with a strong earthquake, while still maintaining its awesome special attacks.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Rush
So i have 2 ideas, actually ill just post the other set, ok so for the first one you are suppose to have zard out on something that will switch into their chary counter and then you proceed to destroy whatever it is, assuming dragon rush hits lol. since most latias are specially defensive(pretty sure they all are) after a dragon dance dragon rush will kill, earthquake OHKOs heatran and flare blitz 2hkos chansey. This set would probably only be useful to catch someone off guard, but I think it mught be cool to use.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
This set is the money set i think, because the whole point here is to try your hardest to bluff charx, and right now from what ive seen, quagsire is a very popular charx counter, so it may be hard to do but itd be pretty epic f you convinced a quagsire to switch into chary. And even if it doesnt work then you still have a very fast chary with a strong earthquake, while still maintaining its awesome special attacks.
I get that you want to hit Lati@s with this creative set, but Dragon Rush is super unreliable. Even after Outrage was effectively nerfed this gen, people still prefer to run it or Dragon Claw over Dragon Rush because of the better accuracy.
It's not awful, but if you are using both Dragon Rush and Fire Blast, I'm of the opinion that you may want to consider Hone Claws over Dragon Dance.
He is using dragon dance in order to outspeed lati@s which is the main premise of this set. So, ddance and dragon claw are better imo.
75% is pretty bad. If there was a more accurate yet equally distributed alternative to Focus Blast, we would use that instead. We use Focus Blast because we don't really have a choice, but we do have better choices with Dragon Rush in Outrage and Dragon Claw.
well dragon claw doesnt kill, so I guess outrage would be ok. But if you go that route i think there are easier ways to get rid of latis, in the form of pursuit trapping. The whole point is for char to get the OHKO and dragon claw doesnt do that. So for the idea behind my set it would have to be outrage or dragon rush.
One major factor you're forgetting is that Dragon Claw/Rush/Outrage doesn't receive STAB and goes off CharY's weaker Atk stat so no matter what, you'll be hard pressed to OHKO. Outrage would still be the better option as you don't have a 25% chance to screw yourself over and potentially lose your CharY.
I am starting to see where you're coming from now, but this set seems pretty outclassed by CharX. Wouldn't he be able to do the mixed DD set better?
yeah charx definitely does a mix dd set better, my may idea was just because i thought itd be funny if quag switched in once he saw the dd and then gets blasted with a solarbeam. But im going to start looking at a good mix dd charx.
Has anyone tried to do a Bulky Zard Y set?
hm... Sounds interesting, but that 4x stealth rock weakness is certainly gonna hamper your walling capabilities. Also, its wallbreaking power and coverage get wasted imo.
I know, but I'm wondering what a Bulky Zard Y set would look like.
- Like, Invest in a HP, Def, and Speed I guess.
Charizard @ charizardite-y
evs : 248hp / 252spD / 8def ( i would personally run enough to outrun adamant base 80s but i am currently on my phone and can't calculate XD)
nature : calm
- Roost
- will-o-wisp
- lava plume / flamethrower
- (depending on what your team needs)
Zard Y has all the Sp.Def, why does he need any Sp.Def Investment? I'd put more EVs into Def.
I was thinking; 236 HP / 204 Def / 4 Sp.Atk / 64 Speed
Lava Plume makes Will-O-Wisp redundant. Roost / Toxic / Lava Plume would be a bit better.
specially defensive spread makes it easier to take on keldeo. Also it cant take many strong physical hits even with investment. And toxic is redundant with lava plume not will-o-wisp.
Zard Y's main role when bulky is that of a sun setter. It has better bulk and better offensive typing than Ninetales, so it can work.
CharX has a bulky set because it lures specific Pokemon that are completely fucked and crippled by Burn.
CharY doesn't.
A bulky CharY set sounds redundant.
CharY doesn't.
A bulky CharY set sounds redundant.
No it's not. Charizard's sun is supposed to support itself and not other members.
Kinda funny, you'd think the weaker physical wall would draw more physical attackers, but that dragon type...
What do you mean "is supposed to"? Charizard Y has better typing, bulk, and offensive presence than Ninetales in addition to reliable recovery. If you have a team that doesn't need the 3 additional sun turns from heat rock, Zard Y is the better sun setter. Yes, it's more useful role is that of a wallbreaker, but without bulky stats, you shouldn't be relying on it for team sun support.
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