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Your team is pretty much fine (I mean, it doesn't have a good answer to leads with status, but many teams don't). You made some key misplays, though. When Gengar fainted, you had an opportunity to basically set up Dragonite for free. Zebstrika probably would have used Thunder Wave (even if it didn't, its attack wouldn't have done much), allowing you to heal with Lum Berry and set up Dragon Dance. A +1 Dragonite sweeps teams. In this case, it wouldn't have worked out that well (because the AI had Togekiss, one of a very small pool of Pokemon that can handle a +1 Dragonite pretty well), but it's simply a much more reliable option than sending in Scizor. If Zebstrika had used Thunder Wave, you would have been able to tank the Dazzling Gleam and hit with Fire Punch, switch to Scizor on the next Dazzling Gleam, and KO with Bullet Punch. Scizor would have been almost at full health, meaning it could probably beat Braviary.
Another misplay was when you sent in Dragonite, you used Fire Punch instead of Dragon Dance. Again, you had the opportunity to get to +1 for free (it was going to hit you anyway), and it's important to take those opportunities. It was the Choice Scarf set, which is a reason why max speed IVs are so important; 31 speed IV max speed +1 Dragonite speed ties Braviary, giving you a 50% chance to win. A Dragonite with an imperfect speed IV will always be outsped, giving you no chance to win.
Holodolo and me managed to reach a streak of 104 in Super Multi Battle. The streak is still going on, but we're taking a break now.
Video: 6QAW-WWWW-WWW6-HPKC
Round is a really interesting move that often gets overlooked, and rightfully so. For those of you that are unfamiliar with the move, Round is a 60 BP Normal-type special attack. However, if used consecutively by an ally, it doubles to 120 BP and the ally gets to move directly after the first user regardless of speed. The move has the added bonus of bypassing Substitute. Given it's lackluster offensive typing, Round remained a fairly useless move in Gen V.
Gen VI, however, graced us with a family of abilities that turn Normal-type attacks into a different type and give them a power boost. Pixilate is one of those abilities: it turns any Normal-type attack into Fairy-type and gives it a 30% increase in power. If used after Greninja's Round, Sylveon's Round becomes a 281 BP move (factoring in Pixilate, STAB, and Pixie Plate boosts) that ignores its lackluster speed.
Despite the destructive power of Sylveon's Round, simply spamming the move is not a successful strategy since it comes with the price of forcing Greninja to use a weak, Normal-typed attack. Round's usefulness instead lies with its ability to handle threats that are slower than Greninja but faster than Sylveon and unable to be OHKOed by Greninja. Round is also great for removing Pokemon with Focus Sash/Sturdy that fall into this speed range and could OHKO one of my teammates (i.e. Focus Sash Lucario).
When not using Round, Greninja still has great coverage and power with Surf/Ice Beam/Grass Knot. Despite Sylveon's shallow movepool, Moonblast and Shadow Ball allow it to dish out reliable damage. The SpA drop from Moonblast has also come in handy. Sylveon's high bulk offsets Greninja's frailness.
The Backups:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangashkanite (Kanga)
Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Jolly Nature
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
Not much to say about the backups, as they have proven to be very good in the Maison. Strong priority, set-up in PuP, and a good mix of bulk and power allows them to handle a wide range of threats.
---
This team struggles mainly with Electric- and Steel-types. I lack an Electric resist (minus grass Greninja...), so lead Jolteon/Electrode can be tough to handle. My answer to Steel-types not Water-weak is the weak PuP and Flare Blitz. PuP is fine for opponents that aren't immediately threatening, but sometimes I wish I had a strong Fighting-type move to outright OHKO some threats. Both Flare Blitz and PuP are physical, so Steels are rarely OHKOed at full health due to their high defense. Many Steels carry Rock moves too, which is death for Talonflame.
Round is a neat niche to play with. I've never found the loss of Dark Pulse on Greninja much of an issue, and Sylveon doesn't have anything better to run really. I want to try out Round in triples, but first I need to get my hands on an Aurorus...
My 3DS can't connect to my school's wifi, so a picture will have to do: http://imgur.com/5nv62SZ
flavor0 I've actually wanted to try out the Gren+Sylv Round combo but haven't got around to it yet. Steel types do stop this pretty well so I want to explore a few different backups that can handle those and see how it works. Good job making it that far though!
(I would Open with Cloyster and shell smash, using focus sash to hang on, then proceed to sweep with Icicle Spear the majority of the time. Cloyster was the star of this team and an effective sweeper for most of my matches)
(Garchomp was a good switch in on a sandstorm or when I felt Cloyster was in an unfavorable set up, or when I needed something really fast. I mostly stuck to earthquake the entire run)
Mega Charizard Y ABILITY: Drought ITEM: Charizardite Y NATURE: Modest IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
Evs: 252 Special Attack, 32 Defense, 220 HP
ATTACKS: Solar Beam, Blast Burn, Air Slash, Flame Thrower
(Mega Charizard Y was to help over power and muscle through tough matches. I would save Blast burn for Pokemon that need a little extra Oomph to go down. Otherwise Solar Beam and Flamethrower pretty much covered every opponent and Air Slash helped again opponents that those moves wouldn't be very effective against)
SUPER DOUBLES:
50th Match Video:
Greninja(NINJAFROG) NATURE: Timid ABILITY: Protein ITEM: Life Orb
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 EVs: HP 4/Special Attack 252/Speed 252
ATTACKS: Mat Block/Ice Beam/Grass Knot/Scald
(I have this Greninja use a Mat block turn 1 to set up Cloyster's Shell Smash. From there I switch between Scald, Ice Beam, and Grass knot as needed to deal effective STAB damage. Scald tends to be my favorite of the 3 for the chance of a burn.)
(The Exact same strategy as my Super Singles Cloyster. I love that set up)
Mega Kangaskhan (Kongaskhan) NATURE: Jolly ABILITY: Parental Bond (Scrappy Before Mega Stone) ITEM: Kangaskhanite IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31 EVs: Attack 252/ Speed 252
Attacks: Fake Out/Return/Sucker Punch/Power Up Punch
(I usually Open with Fake out to earn my partner Pokemon a free strike and do a decent chip of damage too. Sucker Punch came in very handy in Trick Room situations or when I needed to strike right away. Otherwise Power Up punch was handy to heighten the attack stat and create a killer Return sweep for me.)
Togekiss NATURE: Timid ABILITY Serene Grace ITEM: Choice Scarf IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Speed 252 Special Attack 6 HP
ATTACKS: Dazzling Gleam/Air Slash/Shadow Ball/Flamethrower
(I mostly stick to Air slash about 99% of the time and go for the Serene Grace 60% Flinch Death Strategy)
SUPER TRIPLE:
50th Match Video:
LP5W-WWWW-WWW6-HU9Y
I actually made a carbon copy of Eppie's 467 Super Triple Team to help me win this trophy, as I was having a lot of trouble winning it with my own strategies. I feel they explain the set up very well, so I hope its okay to cop out here, and just reference everyone to read their set up.... lol
Another team that I made a Carbon copy of by using Darknesssacred's 119 Super Rotation team! The only difference being, that I made a few changes to the Togekiss - to better suit my own play style. I replaced Roost for Shadow Ball to help me win against psychic types since I kept losing to them in my early attempts at 50. I also switched it to hold Choice scarf so I could use the Serene Grace Air Slash 60% Flinch combo with the majority of my matches. Otherwise the other members were exactly alike to Darknesssacred's set up:
Hey quick question, and not trying to come off petty or anything - But Ive noticed that VaporeonIce was the last person added to the Trophy Hall of fame, but ever since then there have been 2 more users "Storm Eagle" and myself, but no one else has been added to the list. You dont have to add me if u dont want to, but I was wondering if the Hall of Fame is full and no other names are going to be added or something? Or why this might be in general, that the latest 2 users to win them have not gone onto the list? =P
Hey quick question, and not trying to come off petty or anything - But Ive noticed that VaporeonIce was the last person added to the Trophy Hall of fame, but ever since then there have been 2 more users "Storm Eagle" and myself, but no one else has been added to the list. You dont have to add me if u dont want to, but I was wondering if the Hall of Fame is full and no other names are going to be added or something? Or why this might be in general, that the latest 2 users to win them have not gone onto the list? =P
afaik, Eppie isn't able to check back daily to add users to the list. Don't worry about being overlooked, just be patient!
anyway as for me, the only times I've been able to really give my streaks a crack lately is last thing before I go to bed, but I'm usually so tired I make really shitty misplays. My most recent was just after 100 in singles when I had a +1 dragonite against a veteran's suicune. I didn't have access to a damage calculator so just went for the outrage hoping to KO which I quickly found out doesn't happen. so then instead of bringing in aegislash to set up on the cune I decide instead to pick it off with kangaskan's PoP. in comes terrakion just to rub it in my face for not bringing in aegi. but instead of going to the sacred sword + shadow sneak 2hko, I go for swords dance! facing a 2hko I just decide to go for shadow sneak and die swiftly after. and obviously kang gets wrecked by a close combat. so yeah gotta start over I guess. This team that Artic has come up with is pretty damn solid though, except maybe for having all physical moves, but after a few boosts on any given 'mon it doesn't matter too much...
This. So much. Almost all of my streak losses happen when I make the mistake of playing right after I wake up or right before I go to sleep ~_~
I'll be giving Rotation another go, and I'll be stealing VaporeonIce's team. But I think I'm going to switch Venusaur's EQ for Leech Seed, and replace Chansey with something like a Mixmence. Punch a hole with LO DM, and then Fire Blast/EQ for the Steels that Cloyster doesn't want to suffer through. Not sure if I'll keep Gliscor or not.
My triples streak just ended with 440. I was not paying attention to 441 and made the usual first play. Did not know trick room was set up and sent out thundurus and it was downhill from there. Too bad. Probably wil go back for another streak after I get the remaining trophies.
Video of loss: W8WG-WWWW-WWW6-JF9X
Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Timid
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
IVs: 31/-/31/31/31/31
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
First turn Mat Block is how to win at triples. Other moves are basic coverage. For first 300 battles I was using one with imperfect speed IVs (182 speed at level 50) and was being outsped by too many unnecessary things. This change really helped with limiting threats to mat block.
Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
Scrappy > Parental Bond
Jolly
EVs: 200 HP/ 56 Atk/ 252 Spd
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Fake Out
- PuP
- Return
- Crunch
Fake out is great for stopping things that are slightly faster than the team before tailwind. With this EV spread, Mkhan usually needs a PuP before it can kill. Mat Block makes this happen most of the time, except when I hit with fake out first. Crunch over sucker punch. Just had trouble with ghosts before.
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Gale Wings
Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
IVs: 31/31/31/-/31/31
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect
I ended up using Tailwind about 90% of the first turn. Some teams did not require the extra speed and began attacking or switching first turn. Tailwind can really work against me during Trick Room. Brave bird is great. Protect is really for obvious rock or electric moves that allow for Mkhan to land another PuP or just attack.
Thundurus –T @ Focus Sash
Volt Absorb
Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/ 4 SDef/ 252 Spd
IVs: -/-/-/31/-/31
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Hp- Ice
- Grass Knot
Volt absorb is fantastic to cover both greninja and talonflame. Really saved me numerous times. Moves are basic coverage, but I never use U-turn. Focus sash for survivability.
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
My other choice to cover electric types and rock types that threaten talonflame. Really messed them up when I switch both thundurus and excadrill to eat expected attacks. Choice scarf rock slide and earthquake (with mold breaker) ruin a lot of teams. Was running x-scissor but replaced with aerial ace, mostly for double teams but it is usually not strong enough to really do any damage so yea. Takes multiple quakes to KO Mkhan but it usually only tanks one before I switch.
Multiscale is great. Allows for a switch in if I need, plus lum berry for a status absorb. After one DD, sweep.
Threats:
· More than one lead that is faster than Greninja and could prevent mat block.
· Trick Room
· Bulky Double Teamers
· Fake out on either Greninja or Talonflame first turn
· Losing Mkhan early hurts
Overall I was happy with this team, it did a really good job of setting up first turn and proceeding to sweep. After that, it is just good move choices and taking out the biggest threats first. Pretty basic. Switching to cover rock and electric moves is optimal and great for additional chances to mat block and tailwind if needed.
I would say that trying another mega is worthwhile but I did not see the need to change during the run. I chose excradrill over garchomp for the steel typing. Dragonite could also be replaced. Really the only two that make the core of the team are greninja and talonflame. (Thanks to both Eppie and Faroth for their thoughts on these 2.) The others are just preference.
Last night, I finally managed to get a streak of 603 (which is still ongoing) in Super Singles. I'll post a writeup for it soon with a pic and videos, but for now I want to make a post about a Pokemon I tried so hard to make viable but ultimately replaced.
I mentioned a while back I was using a Dragonite/Suicune team (standard 4/252/252 DDNite set and Jumpman's Cune set) and was trying to find a third member who's as good as Scizor. The specification was simple: the Pokemon either needs to be naturally lightning fast (base speed at least 130) and powerful, have access to Dragon Dance (or Quiver Dance, but as mentioned before, Volcarona is meh), or have access to Swords Dance + priority. Being Steel or Fairy type would be a plus, seeing as some of the most problematic Pokemon in the Maison for Nite and Cune (indeed for most teams) are the strong dragons like Salamence4, Garchomp4 and Haxorus4 that can OHKO Nite through Multiscale and 2HKO Cune after a whiffed Icy Wind.
The Pokemon I eventually settled on was (Mega) Lucario, which has enough going for it that it's not just an inferior Scizor.
Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Mega Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 92 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Extremespeed
Adaptability is amazing and means two things for this set: BP reaches base power 80 which is almost as good as Scizor's Technician BP, but often more importantly, CC reaches an obnoxious 240 base power. This is essentially Explosion without the self-KO and gives Luke the ability to just bulldoze through anything slower than him, often even through a resist. It's amusing to note that even if the foe does resist once, that's still the equivalent of a neutral base power 120 move so often CC is still the most damaging move to use. The Def/SpD drops are unfortunate, but well worth the sheer destruction it brings on so many Pokemon, especially when Luke isn't really able to stay in long and tank hits anyway.
Extremespeed gives Luke another base power 80 priority which at first glance seems a little redundant, but what it means is that Luke's sweep doesn't get checked by Fire types or Electric types packing a coverage Fire/Fighting/Ground move who can tank a boosted Bullet Punch. I also want to mention how occasionally, it's useful that Luke's pre-mega ability is Inner Focus. If I know Luke is slower than the foe, can tank at least one hit and there's a chance of getting flinched (examples being Yanmega4's King's Rock Air Slash, the disgusting Starmie4 with King's Rock and countless Rock Slide users), then I can purposely stay unevolved and get off a guaranteed SD or two before evolving and scoring the OHKO.
Luke has obvious shortcomings: his three crippling weaknesses and subpar bulk, but he can almost make up for this. Despite lacking in bulk, his typing does have one extremely useful perk: a 4x resist to Stone Edge. Aerodactyl4 and Armaldo4, both CB Stone Edge users, are a huge nuisance for Nite and Cune (well, “most of the time” Cune can stall them out, but I have to account for the chance of crits) but they become setup fodder for Luke. When I eventually replaced Luke I really missed his unique ability to own these guys.
I managed to get a streak of 336 with this team which is honestly more than it deserved. Why do I say that? Well, there's one single 4th set foe that is an absolute nemesis for this team, seemingly built specifically to counter it. A foe so terrifying that I more or less needed to have at least one DD with Nite or Multiscale still intact whenever it showed up, as well as Luke still being alive, or Luke setup with at least one SD under his belt. It doesn't help that the typing of this Pokemon means it can be used by any of the Hex Maniacs (bar Mara), Psychics, Beauties (bar Orla), Ace Trainers Jai and Bunny, as well as all the 4th Set B trainers. I'm talking about this bitch:
(Sidenote: After using the Vs. Recorder to test stats, I can confirm that this set is indeed Modest, not Timid as the googledoc spreadsheet states)
Yeah. Everything about this set is just annoying for my team. The Babiri Berry (ugh, seriously?) preventing a simple OHKO from Luke's Bullet Punch. The fact that it speed ties at 132 with Nite meaning I can't reliably 2HKO with Earthquake, and the fact that even with a DD, Earthquake is only a OHKO 68.8% of the time. The fact that high SpA Thunderbolt users are some of the only sets that can always beat Cune in a 1v1. Oh, and if it has Trace it can rub my nose in it by tracing Multiscale and becoming even more of an asshole.
I of course knew of this threat long before I got 336, but I spent quite some time looking for ways around it. If Gardevoir4 was the lead then I could get off a DD (Multiscale allows Nite to always tank one Moonblast), and EQ to bring it into Bullet Punch KO range even if it traced Multiscale. And if I knew I was facing a trainer that could use it and it led with something else, then I could plan for the chance of it appearing and try to ensure I would always have a buff or Multiscale still active.
It's not always possible to ensure this, and when I ultimately lost on 336 it was because I was both locked into Outrage and did not have MS active when Gardevoir4 turned up.
Video: UTTW-WWWW-WWW6-K9LD
There are a couple of “misplays” in this match, such as Outraging on Hydreigon instead of switching to Cune and using Scald on Gardevoir instead of Icy Wind + follow up Scald, but these are both risky themselves since, as incredibly useful as Icy Wind is, it does tend to whiff at critical times and Gardevoir's Thunderbolt can paralyse anyway. So even though I “probably” would have won this match if I played differently, I had the growing feeling that Gardevoir's hold over my team would prevent me from getting a much higher streak, and so I decided it was time to change things up. I'll end this post here and make a new one to write up the team I used instead.
So I'm aware that ongoing streaks won't be added to the leaderboard yet but I want to post this anyway, seeing as I'm planning on taking a break from the Maison (unless someone gets a higher streak in the near future):
I may as well say now that I decided to replace Lucario with good old broken Kangaskhan, EV'd in such a way that it could switch into Gardevoir4's CH Moonblast, survive every time and score the KO whether it traced Multiscale or not. This isn't an “original” choice and sometime in the future I still would like to try and get a really high streak with less used 'mon, but whatever. I've just realised that NoCheese actually used the same Pokemon as me in his 286 streak, but he led with Khan instead of Nite and used different movesets on each Pokemon as well as a different item on Cune.
I have a good deal to say about each set, so I'll hide some of the text for those who want to read it.
What more needs to be said about this guy? Boasting one of the best abilities in the game, four of the best moves in the game, considerable bulk, and a base Attack of 134, Nite proudly stands as one of the very best 'mon available for use in the Maison, and probably the very best lead tied with Lum Berry Haxorus. It is hard to overstate just how incredible the combination of Multiscale, DD and Roost is for ensuring a successful setup. While Haxorus notably packs a bit more immediate power, the ability to outspeed max Spe neutral nature base 80 'mon without resorting to Jolly, and Mold Breaker (meaning he doesn't have to get locked into Outrage against things like Gengar), Nite's combination manages to make up for this by having many more situations in which he can get 2 or more DD's off where Hax can only get one.
The best example of how awesome this is when you come up against a lead Rock Slide or Stone Edge user, of which there are many. As an example, let's say we're fighting a Roller Skater who leads with Gliscor. Since it's a Roller Skater, we at once know it's either Gliscor3 or Gliscor4, and consulting the list of sets, we find that Gliscor3 threatens an Adamant max Atk Expert Belt boosted Stone Edge, while Gliscor4 is considerably less dangerous and is clearly just fishing for a countersash KO. We're not going to give much thought to Gliscor4 because it's not really a threat at all (if need be, Cune can just come in and stall it all day while CMing 6 times. Actually Cune can just do this to Gliscor3 as well because Cune is godly but that's beside the point). So if we assume it's Gliscor3, one might think it's a bit of a problem for Nite. Multiscale allows Nite to take the first Stone Edge whether it crits or not, but this Gliscor happens to have 252 Def EV's as well which means it will survive a +1 Outrage. So what do we do? Surely we can't go for another DD? Well actually, because Multiscale is so great and Roost takes away our weakness to Stone Edge, we can simply Roost back to max HP and suddenly we're only taking at most 21% from Stone Edge. All we need to do now is Roost until it either whiffs a Stone Edge or runs out, at which point it will have to start using Aerial Ace which Nite easily tanks and bags another DD against.
Continued..
You can even do this against dudes like Rhyperior4 as long as it doesn't score back to back crits (less than 0.4% chance of happening), because Rock Slide has 10PP so as long as you maxed your Roost PP to 16, you can stall that out too and then DD on its weaker moves. Another neat example is Golem4, who is not only possibly immune to OHKO thanks to Sturdy, but threatens Explosion and STAB Rock Slide. Simply DD and then Roost out its Rock Slides until it explodes (Maison pokes seem to love using Explosion way earlier than they need to) which you will always survive because Multiscale.
Finally, you can apply this tactic to get a successful setup against Trick Room users too. If you DD turn one and they TR, just Roost until TR ends so you can not only KO them afterwards but keep Multiscale and not have to worry about being “outsped” by the second poke due to TR.
I could list countless other examples, but you get the idea. Nite and particularly the Roost/MS combo is OP as hell. At times I really wished I could slap Leftovers on Nite to make it easier to keep MS (I get really irritated when stuff like Sandstorm/Hail or weak Fake Outs take away MS), but Lum Berry is a lot more essential for obvious reasons and Cune needs the lefties way more.
First off, I want to make clear that Jumpman deserves the credit for this set because I'm not sure I would have thought to use Scald + Icy Wind over Surf + Ice Beam. So major thanks for that. If you haven't read Jump's writeup for his team then the reason for Scald is to thaw yourself when Cune gets frozen on the switch (and you'll be switching Cune into many, many Blizzards and Ice Beams when you lead with Nite), and Icy Wind is for the guaranteed speed drop on foes, crucial in a lot of situations for bringing fast 'mon who can OHKO Nite or Khan down to low enough speed so Nite/Khan can OHKO first. Icy Wind is unfortunately only 95% accurate, which would usually mean it's a no-no for Maison teams which need to be as hax-proof as possible, but in this scenario it is definitely worth using over Ice Beam. Also, there's the fact that we're talking about Cune here, and while there are still a few rare situations where Cune missing is fatal, in general it's not so much of a big deal since Cune is such a defensive Pokemon and most of the time it just means you need to stall a few more turns or just try using it again.
I decided to tinker with the EV's ever so slightly because I don't choose to switch in Cune when I see lead Garchomp4. It always SD's on the switch and so we get one of those rare scenarios I mentioned above where whiffing one Icy Wind does matter and I would almost certainly lose if it happened. Instead, I simply Outrage turn one because MS allows Nite to survive an unboosted Dragon Claw should it decide to attack, and once its sash activates and Nite dies I just bring in Khan to finish it off. While not a great position to be in (two mystery pokes vs Khan and Cune), I don't think it's as risky as having to rely completely on Icy Wind connecting. So due to this difference in strategy I don't need Cune to have 113 Speed because there's never a situation where I switch Cune into +2 Garchomp4, and having one extra point of HP slightly ups the chance of surviving a CH Stone Edge + one normal Stone Edge from Aerodactyl4 (CB user), which I do switch Cune into whenever I see it led. The reason I keep Cune at 112 Speed is to outspeed Salamence4 after an Icy Wind, which is a little more immediately dangerous than Garchomp4 because of its Outrage.
I would probably go as far as to say Suicune is the best Pokemon for Battle Maison Singles, period. CroCune has been one of my favourite sets to use competitively ever since its inception in the RSE era because it's just so damn reliable and nigh impossible to 2HKO, let alone OHKO. Having Cune in the team is my ultimate insurance policy, saving me so many times when Nite falls to some Quick Claw/Brightpowder bullshit or consecutive parahax or flinch hax or whatever. Nite may grab most of the KO's but Cune is the glue that holds the team together and secures us so well against the sea of crap the Maison has in its locker.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Mega Ability: Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
(Mega) Stats: 182/194/121/x/122/149
- Fake Out
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
Jesus Christ this thing is uber as shit. I don't think I need to write so much about how good Khan is because she kind of speaks for herself and everyone else uses her anyway lol, so I'll explain my reasoning for the EV's and the choice of moves.
It took me a while to stick on one moveset, and the superb Power-up Punch is notably absent. Return and Sucker Punch are non-negotiable for obvious reasons, but the fight for the other two slots between EQ, Fake Out and PuP is not so cut and dry. This is until I remembered the dreaded Choice Band Tyrantrum who is capable of wrecking almost anything if not outsped and OHKO'd on sight (which by the way, I should point out is actually Adamant so I don't need to worry about it leading and outspeeding Nite). If Khan has no move to OHKO this guy then I'm in serious trouble, and thankfully EQ just barely guarantees it every time:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 159-189 (101.2 - 120.3%)
So obviously EQ is needed, meaning the choice is between Fake Out and PuP for the final slot. It's really tempting to look at PuP on Khan and want to use it just for the sheer brokenness of Parental Bond. The equivalent of an SD as well as dealing damage?! It seems too good to pass up, before you calm down and think about what exactly you need it for in the Maison. I realised that the majority of the time, Khan is so beastly that she doesn't actually -need- the boosts to OHKO things. Of course, sometimes, for example when Khan is slower than the foe and needs to Sucker Punch to get some damage in before getting hit, she will fall short of the KO where at +2 it would be comfortable. That kind of thing is what really tempted me to go with PuP instead, but honestly in most scenarios Khan's unboosted Return, if not EQ for Rock/Steel types, is strong enough to get the job done. And even if she can't, Khan is bulky enough that she's not getting OHKO'd by anything outside of STAB Fighting attacks and random CH Choice Band STABs.
On the other hand, while Fake Out looks less inviting at the offset, it turns so many 2HKO Sucker Punches and Returns into OHKO's and makes Khan almost invincible in a 1v1. Seriously, I've gone through the whole list and there are only a handful of Pokemon that can actually reliably beat Khan in a 1v1 (basically the few bulky high Atk Fighting types or those which are faster than Khan and can take a Fake Out + Sucker Punch). And seeing as I'm not leading with Khan, isn't it more important that instead of having potential to set up for a sweep, she can come in and “mop up” just about any bad situation when Nite/Cune have fallen? This was my thought process and I'm now completely convinced it's the right move to use. The icing on the cake is that Fake Out + Return crucially guarantees a KO on Gardevoir4 even if it leads and traces Nite's Multiscale, which Return alone is unable to do. [Edit: just to be clear, I'm not claiming that Fake Out > PuP in general, just that it's the better choice for this particular team. If you're intending Khan to be your primary sweeper then of course PuP is going to be better]
Stuff about EV's:
I had a look at the speed tier list to see if it was vital to go max speed or if I could drop a few EV's and not leave myself open to something dangerous. Immediately you can see nothing sitting on 151 speed, and only a couple of set4 pokes on 152. Khan can only get a maximum of 152 without going Jolly, and I really don't care about hitting speed numbers just to tie because I'm always going to assume I lose the tie anyway. Coming down the list, one notices Heracross4 on 150 speed, but checking its moveset it literally doesn't even know CC because it's a silly Endure/Reversal/Salac set so I don't care about outspeeding it. At 149 we have Infernape2 and Skuntank3 who I don't care about because Infernape2 can only be used by the Starter Trainers who aren't dangerous anyway and Skuntank is bad. I decided to stick on 149, because on 148 there's Magmortar4 with Focus Blast, and seeing as Battle Girls / Black Belts as well as 4th Set B Trainers could use a team containing Magmortar4 and Aerodactyl4 I can't always assume Cune will be healthy when it shows up. So that leaves 28 EV's to play around with, and one key observation led me to distribute them as such:
252+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Kangaskhan on a critical hit: 153-181 (84 - 99.4%)
I always wanted Khan to be able to switch into Gardevoir4 securely after it wreaked such havoc on my previous team (RIP Luke). Gardevoir4 will obviously always use Moonblast on Nite, so it would be great if I could rest easy knowing Khan could always survive on the switch in and score the KO before it can move again. After testing out the most efficient way to spread the EV's to achieve this, 12/12 was the answer with the extra 4 dumped in Def to slightly up the chance of Mega-Khan surviving things like Salamence4's CH Outrage. I could have actually spread the EV's so she -always- survives this, but between that and CH Moonblast I would rather she always survived the latter.
Time for some vids of the worst bullshit the Maison could come up with (and admittedly, some close calls due to inaccurate play on my part), and how I should've lost at 594 but inexplicably didn't.
NGJW-WWWW-WWW6-KD67 (Battle 388) “MoxieMence”
Lead Togekiss sucks. Not only does the 4th set's Dazzling Gleam do a little too much for Cune to reliably switch in and set up on but it's the only Pokemon in the entire Maison that completely walls Nite.
Since this was a Roller Skater, it could've been either the 3rd or 4th set Togekiss and what I should have done was just sacrifice Nite right away and go from there (I kind of hate doing this but in a few awkward situations it's actually the best play). Instead I switched to Cune, observed it was the 4th set, then bounced to Khan to take a DG and KO with Fake Out + Return. Mence comes in without an Intimidate so I know it's Moxie which could mean trouble. I get a cool CH Sucker Punch to bring it into Cune's KO range before it kills Khan and gets an attack raise. To add to my luck it whiffs Dragon Rush and I get out of jail free. I really hate winning due to luck because I feel like I deserved to lose, which I could easily have done here had I not got the CH.
This was the battle that made me stop switching to Cune when a Set 1/2 Veteran leads with Articuno and just Outrage turn one to get it off the screen as fast as possible. Fortunately, Virizion1 decided to Taunt Khan instead of use Sacred Sword. A CH Sacred Sword on that turn would have meant defeat for me here.
GE6W-WWWW-WWW6-KD5L (Battle 535) “Pinsir”
I have actually run into lead Pinsir4 a few times during this streak and for some reason it would use either CC or X-Scissor against Nite instead of Guillotine, but hey I'm not complaining. No such luck this time and I really should have lost here. I had to Outrage at the end because it still had one Guillotine left after whiffing and with the scarf it's still faster than Nite after a DD. So not only did I have to rely on Guillotine missing, but I had to hope that being locked into Outrage wouldn't burn me against whatever the last poke was – if it had been Togekiss or Gardevoir, or indeed many others, I would've lost without doubt.
I made a slight misplay here which I only realised a while after. When Pinsir appeared, what I should have done is switch to Cune immediately to ensure Khan could switch back in and get off a Fake Out if Cune died. After that, I could've switched out and sacrificed Nite, in order to bring Khan back in, Fake Out again to put it in range of a Sucker Punch KO. Then it would have been Khan (albeit without the use of Fake Out) against a mystery foe which would've given me more chance of winning than what I played instead. I really just lucked out here and it irks me a little but there you go.
I still have no idea what happened here with the AI. When I saw Tornadus come out second, I was shaking because I really thought I was done, but well, you can watch what happened. It's evidently the Life Orb set, but for some reason it had mercy on me and used Grass Knot against Khan when it knows Focus Blast (I've confirmed this by rerunning the fight in Vs. Recorder). Not much else to say than if it had used FB here I was done, especially because of the last 'mon.
Finally, because I haven't mentioned it yet and it might be surprising, don't underestimate Jynx4. It's actually kind of a dick, especially if you don't have Bullet Punch. At 161 Speed it outspeeds all three of my team, OHKO's Nite through Multiscale with Blizzard, threatens Cune and Khan with Lovely Kiss and also survives Khan's Fake Out. The only reliable way to deal with it is to switch between Khan and Cune and get rid of it with 2 Fake Outs, often leaving Cune asleep and Khan on less than 50% HP. Looking through my Vs Recorder I don't seem to have any videos where it actually caused me to nearly lose but it was always a pretty large concern. Really highlights how Sucker Punch is only the “next best thing” compared to true priority moves and I really wished I had Bullet Punch sometimes for these kind of things.
So I'm aware that ongoing streaks won't be added to the leaderboard yet but I want to post this anyway, seeing as I'm planning on taking a break from the Maison (unless someone gets a higher streak in the near future):
I may as well say now that I decided to replace Lucario with good old broken Kangaskhan, EV'd in such a way that it could switch into Gardevoir4's CH Moonblast, survive every time and score the KO whether it traced Multiscale or not. This isn't an “original” choice and sometime in the future I still would like to try and get a really high streak with less used 'mon, but whatever. I've just realised that NoCheese actually used the same Pokemon as me in his 286 streak, but he led with Khan instead of Nite and used different movesets on each Pokemon as well as a different item on Cune.
I have a good deal to say about each set, so I'll hide some of the text for those who want to read it.
What more needs to be said about this guy? Boasting one of the best abilities in the game, four of the best moves in the game, considerable bulk, and a base Attack of 134, Nite proudly stands as one of the very best 'mon available for use in the Maison, and probably the very best lead tied with Lum Berry Haxorus. It is hard to overstate just how incredible the combination of Multiscale, DD and Roost is for ensuring a successful setup. While Haxorus notably packs a bit more immediate power, the ability to outspeed max Spe neutral nature base 80 'mon without resorting to Jolly, and Mold Breaker (meaning he doesn't have to get locked into Outrage against things like Gengar), Nite's combination manages to make up for this by having many more situations in which he can get 2 or more DD's off where Hax can only get one.
The best example of how awesome this is when you come up against a lead Rock Slide or Stone Edge user, of which there are many. As an example, let's say we're fighting a Roller Skater who leads with Gliscor. Since it's a Roller Skater, we at once know it's either Gliscor3 or Gliscor4, and consulting the list of sets, we find that Gliscor3 threatens an Adamant max Atk Expert Belt boosted Stone Edge, while Gliscor4 is considerably less dangerous and is clearly just fishing for a countersash KO. We're not going to give much thought to Gliscor4 because it's not really a threat at all (if need be, Cune can just come in and stall it all day while CMing 6 times. Actually Cune can just do this to Gliscor3 as well because Cune is godly but that's beside the point). So if we assume it's Gliscor3, one might think it's a bit of a problem for Nite. Multiscale allows Nite to take the first Stone Edge whether it crits or not, but this Gliscor happens to have 252 Def EV's as well which means it will survive a +1 Outrage. So what do we do? Surely we can't go for another DD? Well actually, because Multiscale is so great and Roost takes away our weakness to Stone Edge, we can simply Roost back to max HP and suddenly we're only taking at most 21% from Stone Edge. All we need to do now is Roost until it either whiffs a Stone Edge or runs out, at which point it will have to start using Aerial Ace which Nite easily tanks and bags another DD against.
Continued..
You can even do this against dudes like Rhyperior4 as long as it doesn't score back to back crits (less than 0.4% chance of happening), because Rock Slide has 10PP so as long as you maxed your Roost PP to 16, you can stall that out too and then DD on its weaker moves. Another neat example is Golem4, who is not only possibly immune to OHKO thanks to Sturdy, but threatens Explosion and STAB Rock Slide. Simply DD and then Roost out its Rock Slides until it explodes (Maison pokes seem to love using Explosion way earlier than they need to) which you will always survive because Multiscale.
Finally, you can apply this tactic to get a successful setup against Trick Room users too. If you DD turn one and they TR, just Roost until TR ends so you can not only KO them afterwards but keep Multiscale and not have to worry about being “outsped” by the second poke due to TR.
I could list countless other examples, but you get the idea. Nite and particularly the Roost/MS combo is OP as hell. At times I really wished I could slap Leftovers on Nite to make it easier to keep MS (I get really irritated when stuff like Sandstorm/Hail or weak Fake Outs take away MS), but Lum Berry is a lot more essential for obvious reasons and Cune needs the lefties way more.
First off, I want to make clear that Jumpman deserves the credit for this set because I'm not sure I would have thought to use Scald + Icy Wind over Surf + Ice Beam. So major thanks for that. If you haven't read Jump's writeup for his team then the reason for Scald is to thaw yourself when Cune gets frozen on the switch (and you'll be switching Cune into many, many Blizzards and Ice Beams when you lead with Nite), and Icy Wind is for the guaranteed speed drop on foes, crucial in a lot of situations for bringing fast 'mon who can OHKO Nite or Khan down to low enough speed so Nite/Khan can OHKO first. Icy Wind is unfortunately only 95% accurate, which would usually mean it's a no-no for Maison teams which need to be as hax-proof as possible, but in this scenario it is definitely worth using over Ice Beam. Also, there's the fact that we're talking about Cune here, and while there are still a few rare situations where Cune missing is fatal, in general it's not so much of a big deal since Cune is such a defensive Pokemon and most of the time it just means you need to stall a few more turns or just try using it again.
I decided to tinker with the EV's ever so slightly because I don't choose to switch in Cune when I see lead Garchomp4. It always SD's on the switch and so we get one of those rare scenarios I mentioned above where whiffing one Icy Wind does matter and I would almost certainly lose if it happened. Instead, I simply Outrage turn one because MS allows Nite to survive an unboosted Dragon Claw should it decide to attack, and once its sash activates and Nite dies I just bring in Khan to finish it off. While not a great position to be in (two mystery pokes vs Khan and Cune), I don't think it's as risky as having to rely completely on Icy Wind connecting. So due to this difference in strategy I don't need Cune to have 113 Speed because there's never a situation where I switch Cune into +2 Garchomp4, and having one extra point of HP slightly ups the chance of surviving a CH Stone Edge + one normal Stone Edge from Aerodactyl4 (CB user), which I do switch Cune into whenever I see it led. The reason I keep Cune at 112 Speed is to outspeed Salamence4 after an Icy Wind, which is a little more immediately dangerous than Garchomp4 because of its Outrage.
I would probably go as far as to say Suicune is the best Pokemon for Battle Maison Singles, period. CroCune has been one of my favourite sets to use competitively ever since its inception in the RSE era because it's just so damn reliable and nigh impossible to 2HKO, let alone OHKO. Having Cune in the team is my ultimate insurance policy, saving me so many times when Nite falls to some Quick Claw/Brightpowder bullshit or consecutive parahax or flinch hax or whatever. Nite may grab most of the KO's but Cune is the glue that holds the team together and secures us so well against the sea of crap the Maison has in its locker.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Mega Ability: Parental Bond
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 228 Spe
(Mega) Stats: 182/194/121/x/122/149
- Fake Out
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
Jesus Christ this thing is uber as shit. I don't think I need to write so much about how good Khan is because she kind of speaks for herself and everyone else uses her anyway lol, so I'll explain my reasoning for the EV's and the choice of moves.
It took me a while to stick on one moveset, and the superb Power-up Punch is notably absent. Return and Sucker Punch are non-negotiable for obvious reasons, but the fight for the other two slots between EQ, Fake Out and PuP is not so cut and dry. This is until I remembered the dreaded Choice Band Tyrantrum who is capable of wrecking almost anything if not outsped and OHKO'd on sight (which by the way, I should point out is actually Adamant so I don't need to worry about it leading and outspeeding Nite). If Khan has no move to OHKO this guy then I'm in serious trouble, and thankfully EQ just barely guarantees it every time:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 159-189 (101.2 - 120.3%)
So obviously EQ is needed, meaning the choice is between Fake Out and PuP for the final slot. It's really tempting to look at PuP on Khan and want to use it just for the sheer brokenness of Parental Bond. The equivalent of an SD as well as dealing damage?! It seems too good to pass up, before you calm down and think about what exactly you need it for in the Maison. I realised that the majority of the time, Khan is so beastly that she doesn't actually -need- the boosts to OHKO things. Of course, sometimes, for example when Khan is slower than the foe and needs to Sucker Punch to get some damage in before getting hit, she will fall short of the KO where at +2 it would be comfortable. That kind of thing is what really tempted me to go with PuP instead, but honestly in most scenarios Khan's unboosted Return, if not EQ for Rock/Steel types, is strong enough to get the job done. And even if she can't, Khan is bulky enough that she's not getting OHKO'd by anything outside of STAB Fighting attacks and random CH Choice Band STABs.
On the other hand, while Fake Out looks less inviting at the offset, it turns so many 2HKO Sucker Punches and Returns into OHKO's and makes Khan almost invincible in a 1v1. Seriously, I've gone through the whole list and there are only a handful of Pokemon that can actually reliably beat Khan in a 1v1 (basically the few bulky high Atk Fighting types or those which are faster than Khan and can take a Fake Out + Sucker Punch). And seeing as I'm not leading with Khan, isn't it more important that instead of having potential to set up for a sweep, she can come in and “mop up” just about any bad situation when Nite/Cune have fallen? This was my thought process and I'm now completely convinced it's the right move to use. The icing on the cake is that Fake Out + Return crucially guarantees a KO on Gardevoir4 even if it leads and traces Nite's Multiscale, which Return alone is unable to do.
Stuff about EV's:
I had a look at the speed tier list to see if it was vital to go max speed or if I could drop a few EV's and not leave myself open to something dangerous. Immediately you can see nothing sitting on 151 speed, and only a couple of set4 pokes on 152. Khan can only get a maximum of 152 without going Jolly, and I really don't care about hitting speed numbers just to tie because I'm always going to assume I lose the tie anyway. Coming down the list, one notices Heracross4 on 150 speed, but checking its moveset it literally doesn't even know CC because it's a silly Endure/Reversal/Salac set so I don't care about outspeeding it. At 149 we have Infernape2 and Skuntank3 who I don't care about because Infernape2 can only be used by the Starter Trainers who aren't dangerous anyway and Skuntank is bad. I decided to stick on 149, because on 148 there's Magmortar4 with Focus Blast, and seeing as Battle Girls / Black Belts as well as 4th Set B Trainers could use a team containing Magmortar4 and Aerodactyl4 I can't always assume Cune will be healthy when it shows up. So that leaves 28 EV's to play around with, and one key observation led me to distribute them as such:
252+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 12 HP / 12 SpD Kangaskhan on a critical hit: 153-181 (84 - 99.4%)
I always wanted Khan to be able to switch into Gardevoir4 securely after it wreaked such havoc on my previous team (RIP Luke). Gardevoir4 will obviously always use Moonblast on Nite, so it would be great if I could rest easy knowing Khan could always survive on the switch in and score the KO before it can move again. After testing out the most efficient way to spread the EV's to achieve this, 12/12 was the answer with the extra 4 dumped in Def to slightly up the chance of Mega-Khan surviving things like Salamence4's CH Outrage. I could have actually spread the EV's so she -always- survives this, but between that and CH Moonblast I would rather she always survived the latter.
Time for some vids of the worst bullshit the Maison could come up (and admittedly, some close calls due to inaccurate play on my part), and how I should've lost at 594 but inexplicably didn't.
NGJW-WWWW-WWW6-KD67 (Battle 388) “MoxieMence”
Lead Togekiss sucks. Not only does the 4th set's Dazzling Gleam do a little too much for Cune to reliably switch in and set up on but it's the only Pokemon in the entire Maison that completely walls Nite.
Since this was a Roller Skater, it could've been either the 3rd or 4th set Togekiss and what I should have done was just sacrifice Nite right away and go from there (I kind of hate doing this but in a few awkward situations it's actually the best play). Instead I switched to Cune, observed it was the 4th set, then bounced to Khan to take a DG and KO with Fake Out + Return. Mence comes in without an Intimidate so I know it's Moxie which could mean trouble. I get a cool CH Sucker Punch to bring it into Cune's KO range before it kills Khan and gets an attack raise. To add to my luck it whiffs Dragon Rush and I get out of jail free. I really hate winning due to luck because I feel like I deserved to lose, which I could easily have done here had I not got the CH.
This was the battle that made me stop switching to Cune when a Set 1/2 Veteran leads with Articuno and just Outrage turn one to get it off the screen as fast as possible. Fortunately, Virizion1 decided to Taunt Khan instead of use Sacred Sword. A CH Sacred Sword on that turn would have meant defeat for me here.
GE6W-WWWW-WWW6-KD5L (Battle 535) “Pinsir”
I have actually run into lead Pinsir4 a few times during this streak and for some reason it would use either CC or X-Scissor against Nite instead of Guillotine, but hey I'm not complaining. No such luck this time and I really should have lost here. I had to Outrage at the end because it still had one Guillotine left after whiffing and with the scarf it's still faster than Nite after a DD. So not only did I have to rely on Guillotine missing, but I had to hope that being locked into Outrage wouldn't burn me against whatever the last poke was – if it had been Togekiss or Gardevoir, or indeed many others, I would've lost without doubt.
I made a slight misplay here which I only realised a while after. When Pinsir appeared, what I should have done is switch to Cune immediately to ensure Khan could switch back in and get off a Fake Out if Cune died. After that, I could've switched out and sacrificed Nite, in order to bring Khan back in, Fake Out again to put it in range of a Sucker Punch KO. Then it would have been Khan (albeit without the use of Fake Out) against a mystery foe which would've given me more chance of winning than what I played instead. I really just lucked out here and it irks me a little but there you go.
I still have no idea what happened here with the AI. When I saw Tornadus come out second, I was shaking because I really thought I was done, but well, you can watch what happened. It's evidently the Life Orb set, but for some reason it had mercy on me and used Grass Knot against Khan when it knows Focus Blast (I've confirmed this by rerunning the fight in Vs. Recorder). Not much else to say than if it had used FB here I was done, especially because of the last 'mon.
Finally, because I haven't mentioned it yet and it might be surprising, don't underestimate Jynx4. It's actually kind of a dick, especially if you don't have Bullet Punch. At 161 Speed it outspeeds all three of my team, OHKO's Nite through Multiscale with Blizzard, threatens Cune and Khan with Lovely Kiss and also survives Khan's Fake Out. The only reliable way to deal with it is to switch between Khan and Cune and get rid of it with 2 Fake Outs, often leaving Cune asleep and Khan on less than 50% HP. Looking through my Vs Recorder I don't seem to have any videos where it actually caused me to nearly lose but it was always a pretty large concern. Really highlights how Sucker Punch is only the “next best thing” compared to true priority moves and I really wished I had Bullet Punch sometimes for these kind of things.
Well done! Maybe now Jumpman will try out his "better" team...or maybe Suizorus will just be taken to new heights.
Based on my Singles yeam, I'm obviously partial to Power-Up Punch. I think the PuP/Fake Out debate heavily comes down to the composition of the rest of your team, though. Clearly, my Singles team was explicitly built to exploit PuP; when Kanga came in on my team, it should be very rare that it switched out. I would get Kanga to +4 and use it to OHKO stuff like Hawlucha and Infernape; it was hilarious. Suicune really mitigates risk well, though, dealing with many of the speedy threats who you'd want some extra power to OHKO.
Jynx 4 is one of the most obnoxious Pokemon in the Maison. Fake Out for Sash/Sturdy/Multiscale breaking (very annoying for my Rotation team), Blizzard for freezes, Lovely Kiss for sleep, Psychic for Sp.Def drops, and an annoyingly good base 95 speed with a Timid nature. The fact that my Singles team's strategy for dealing with it was "have Aegislash OHKO without setting up" even though Aegislash totally walls Jynx is a testament to how frustrating it is.
Thanks. :) Haha, yeah, I'm also really interested to see what his "final form" team is.
Based on my Singles yeam, I'm obviously partial to Power-Up Punch. I think the PuP/Fake Out debate heavily comes down to the composition of the rest of your team, though. Clearly, my Singles team was explicitly built to exploit PuP; when Kanga came in on my team, it should be very rare that it switched out. I would get Kanga to +4 and use it to OHKO stuff like Hawlucha and Infernape; it was hilarious. Suicune really mitigates risk well, though, dealing with many of the speedy threats who you'd want some extra power to OHKO.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I should edit to make it clear that I only mean Fake Out is the better option for my team. On a lead crippler team such as yours, PuP is mandatory because you're always going to need one of the two non-lead members to setup and sweep. In my case, Khan is used as more of a backup for when my main sweeper (Nite) has failed to finish the job for whatever reason.
Congrats on the huge streak, StarKO! I've been trying Singles for a bit because I like how fast the battles go but I haven't had that much time lately to attempt it, currently sitting at 100 only. When I was messing around with a similar team, I almost (or maybe I did lose, I don't remember) lost to Gardevoir 4 since I switched to Scizor and the bloody thing nailed Scizor with a critical Focus Blast after eating a critical Moonblast on switch in. :|
As a sidenote I've just realised my triples record has fallen all the way to #7... maybe I'll get around to some team reforms and attempt another streak whenever I have more free time. That was my only try with the team so I should definitely give it another go.
Yeah nice job on the singles streak, StarKO.
Word of adive, if you start playing battles on autopiolot take a break, the AI will try its best to throw something unexpected at you.
Your team description was a good read btw, was not aware that scald could thaw you out.
Congrats on the huge streak, StarKO! I've been trying Singles for a bit because I like how fast the battles go but I haven't had that much time lately to attempt it, currently sitting at 100 only. When I was messing around with a similar team, I almost (or maybe I did lose, I don't remember) lost to Gardevoir 4 since I switched to Scizor and the bloody thing nailed Scizor with a critical Focus Blast after eating a critical Moonblast on switch in. :|
As a sidenote I've just realised my triples record has fallen all the way to #7... maybe I'll get around to some team reforms and attempt another streak whenever I have more free time. That was my only try with the team so I should definitely give it another go.
Pretty rarely actually. The vast majority of the time, the enemy doesn't need to be burned for Cune to set up and I don't want to run the risk of them dying before I can do so. If the enemy is dangerous enough that a burn is needed to cripple them, I'm probably using a different strategy (like getting off an Icy Wind if necessary so Khan or Nite can outspeed them) as that's not really reliable if I only have one or two attempts.
Is it just me or is this legendary team a big pain for even teams meant to counter it. I lost my doubles streak to Veteran Catherine, she's off my Christmas list by the way. I have replayed the match over and over, and still barely have a 60%-ish success rate. Here's her team:
Starters: Latias 2, Regigigas 2 (Take that confuse Ray and shove it). You can imagine how I felt when I threw my Garchomp and Latias speed tied Gengar out at them.
Backup: Zapdos 1, Regice 1
Regigigas though slow for the first 5 turns has a crazy move pool, Thunder, Toxic, Focus Punch, and he spams Confuse Ray. He and Regice both have Focus Punch, goodbye Kangaskhan. Regice has a crazy move pool, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Toxic, as well as a Sitrus Berry. I can only limit his damage with Scizor and a Swords Danced Bullet Punch which is impossible because he'd kill himself from being confused or from being Draco Meteored and Thundered/Focus Blasted first. And Zapdos has a wicked fast and powerful stab Thunderbolt.
I win more often than not in rematches with different team combinations, but there are times where I just get my rear end handed back to me. What gives? Worst part is I faced and lost to this team at battle 47. Good gravy.
Once again, I love this team. Their synergy is just crazy. Any one of these Pokemon can beat entire teams, but only very select teams (e.g. all special attackers for Chansey, bulky waters for Venusaur, teams with no Ice resists or priority users for Cloyster). I didn't plan it this way, but the team often operates to minimize prediction by relying on Chansey and Venusaur's insane bulk. With Chansey, I often just sit there and use Toxic even with two of the opponent's Pokemon poisoned, simply because neither of the two poisoned Pokemon can actually do anything to me. I built the team around Mega Venusaur originally, not realizing that it's actually the perfect partner to Cloyster. Ice is resisted by Water, Ice, Fire, and Steel; Venusaur happens to be weak to none of those types, has Giga Drain for Water-types (which are the most common) and can last for days with the help of Synthesis. Also, the front line is all Kanto, so that's kind of cool.
I almost never use Razor Shell and I probably used Rock Blast twice in the streak; you just don't want to miss a risk with Cloyster (unless he's at full health). When I do use them, I typically have a back-up plan (e.g. the opponent is slower than Gliscor, meaning they can be stalled out).
This team really doesn't like set-up sweepers, but it can usually handle them okay. Usually they'll either faint to Toxic + Seismic Toss damage + Mega Venusaur's attacks before they can get too dangerous; when they don't, I use Cloyster to take them out. Also, half of the team can't hit Gengar, while Mega Venusaur can only hit it with resisted attacks. That usually isn't a problem, because Gengar can't beat Chansey either, meaning Chansey can wear down the rest of their team until Mega Venusaur or Cloyster can finish Gengar off. It can be a threat when it has teammates I don't like, though, and it was ultimately a huge factor in my loss. That said, I don't think any of the moves on the team can be replaced. Mega Venusaur could run HP Dark (I THINK that's the Hidden Power it has; it's all 31 IVs except Special Defense, which I believe is 29, but it might be 28), but Earthquake's coverage on Fire- and Steel-types was incredibly valuable, and I don't think it would be worth it. Losing the 4x super-effective hit on Magnezone is a big deal.
They're at it again! I took a second attempt with the exact same team and ended up with a streak of 417 wins in Super Rotation battles.
Basically, after my last loss, I decided to give the battle a try on the Vs. Recorder and see if I could actually win that battle. I changed up my strategy, realizing I absolutely could not allow Scrafty to get off a Bulk Up for free. I wound up winning the mock battle 5 or 6 times before deciding that the team actually would win that battle quite easily if I played it properly. So I decided to give them another go and see how far they could get. The first post elaborates on how each team member works, so I won't elaborate on that too much. I will say that Chansey is the glue that holds the team together. Cloyster and Venusaur each destroy lots of Pokemon, but they counter different sets of Pokemon. If the opponent has one Pokemon from each set (let's just say Magnezone, who dies to Venusaur's Earthquake and Latios), one wrong switch can mean one of my key Pokemon faints. That's when Chansey comes in and just sits there spamming Seismic Toss/Toxic until the opponent is weak enough to KO with the "wrong" Pokemon.
Gliscor is insane. I've had a match come down to Gliscor vs. an opposing Gengar and another Pokemon, and I won the battle even though Gliscor can't hit Gengar. It just stalls for days.
Big threats include Honchkrow (Taunt, Sucker Punch to hit Cloyster, stupidly strong with Life Orb), Escavalier (super powerful and hard to kill), Scizor (less powerful but super hard to kill because of Roost), the aforementioned Gengar and Scrafty (though I can usually beat them with Cloyster before they cause problems), Pure Power Medicham (OHKOs both Mega Venusaur and Chansey; is hilariously bad if it doesn't have Pure Power), and my team's archnemesis, Registeel 1, who ultimately beat me. I usually beat it by forcing it to Rest and setting up with Cloyster, then spamming Razor Shell. If Cloyster faints before I KO everything else, I have a lot of problems. I knew Virizion 1 was a threat before I lost (Taunt + Fighting-type is annoying), but I didn't realize just how big of a threat it was until the match I lost.
The losing battle was 100 turns long. I actually thought I might win until about 15 turns to go, but I didn't really have a chance. Maybe if Amnesia only had 10 PP...
The opponent was Veteran Stanislaw (note: set 1+2 Veterans are worse for this team than other Veterans, because of Registeel 1 and various Calm Mind/Rest sets that can cause problems if Chansey and Gliscor faint, usually to Terrakion and Latios, respectively). He led with Articuno 1, Registeel 1, and Virizion 1. I knew it was a bad match-up from the start; Virizion's Taunt blocks my typical strategies that would otherwise destroy the other two (Gliscor stall or Chansey Seismic Toss spam while healing with Soft-Boiled). Ironically, Chansey could probably beat Virizion by herself if it weren't for Taunt.
Basically, I eventually killed Articuno with Toxic damage and the opponent sent out Latios 2. Very bad, since that Latios can dismantle Gliscor (Latios 1 is slower than Gliscor and dies to Toxic damage, so it's not a threat). Virizion took out Chansey at some point. I think Venusaur fainted to Latios's Psychic as well (not that it was doing much against Latios or Registeel). Cloyster managed to get a free Shell Smash and beat Virizion, meaning I still had two chances to attack while hoping the AI would switch to Latios. Latios had used up its White Herb, but I was worried about it hitting Gliscor with a full-powered Meteor (which does over 75%), which is why I spammed Icicle Spear even though Registeel was "active." Registeel didn't rotate out and it wound up killing Cloyster.
From there, it was Gliscor vs. Latios and Registeel, so all I could do was Toxic stall Latios then try to stall out Registeel. I managed to have Latios hit my Subs with its Meteors a couple of times, which allowed me to set up a free Sub, hit it with Toxic, and eventually take it out. From there, it was a stall war against Registeel. I stalled out Iron Head, then I tried to waste all of my non-attacking PP first so it wouldn't get free sleep turns, but Amnesia has 20 PP, so I was in a pretty bad spot. Once it was clear that wasn't going to work, I realized I would need consecutive crits to win. I was forced to attack with Earthquake, letting it get free turns from Rest. I didn't get a single crit the whole time (even with Struggle), and was eventually stalled out of PP. I was forced to Struggle, which killed me VERY slowly thanks to Poison Heal. As a consolation prize, on the turn before Gliscor fainted, Registeel used (+6) Struggle against me.
Anyway, I'm glad to get the #1 spot. This team was super fun, even if the occasional match against Registeel 1 or Ferrothorn 4 dragged on FOREVER (I had a 92-turn battle against Ferrothorn 4 that I won, because Gliscor had more PP left and Mega Venusaur stayed alive to recover off Struggle damage with Synthesis). The team is incredibly adaptable, and I've found myself winning matches I thought I would lose because the team members are just so reliable (especially Gliscor). I've won bad match-ups before, but between Virizion 1, Latios 2, and Registeel 1, this just would have been a tough one to win, and it ultimately would come down to getting lucky with the rotations. But that's the challenge of rotation battles, and that's what makes it interesting, on some level.
Team honors:
First Super Rotation team to hit 400 wins on Smogon
Only team (currently) to make a Smogon top 10 Maison list (in any modality) that uses Chansey, (Mega) Venusaur, or Cloyster
So anyways, once Eppie is done being an adult and stuff, there's another Super Rotation target to shoot for. I look forward to seeing what other people come up with to tackle Super Rotation battles!
Been following along on Smogon for a while now as I've been building monotype teams and challenging folks with them - done pretty well actually. Also been following Battle Maison too, but this is my first post.
On my first attempt on Super Singles I got up to almost an 80 win streak with Sableye as my lead and Mega-Kangaskhan and Greninja as back-up. Though, admittedly, I swapped out Sableye for a Choice Band Mamoswine to fight the boss trainer. I put Sableye back in after that fight, but ended up losing down the road from a bad decision on my part.
I just beat Super Doubles after a ton of attempts with totally different teams, I settled on a Trick Room team. I led with Slowbro to set it up and he had Hariyama for support, Slowbro held a Focus Sash and Hariyama would use Fake Out to ensure Slowbro's set-up. I backed them up with Mega-Mawile and Goodra. I interrupted for now, but I have beaten the boss trainer. This was my third run through with my Trick Room team, twice I got to round 46 and fought a Psychic. Both of those times my Fake Out just happened to miss a Gothitelle... followed by plenty of critical hits and and sleep.
But again, interrupted for now. Trying to decide between Triple or Rotation for next. Thanks for the great posts on here to help me form teams!
(note: set 1+2 Veterans are worse for this team than other Veterans, because of Registeel 1 and various Calm Mind/Rest sets that can cause problems if Chansey and Gliscor faint, usually to Terrakion and Latios, respectively)
Impressive streak, congrats! This line interested me; I thought Veterans could carry any legendary (set 1, 2, 3 or 4), but your post seems to imply that there's Veterans that carry only set 1 and 2? Could you clarify this for me please? Not knowing the set is the worst part about facing Veterans imo.
