Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Chesnaught said:
Can we please put actual thought into our posts instead of just 15 sentences about random Pokemon, focus your post on one Pokemon to actually create discussion, and actually put effort into researching it and playing with it before you post.
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Well some people have time. I didn't have a lot of it and just wanted to throw out my thoughts. You can be my guest and deal with it, if it's too hard for you to understand.

Just pointing out too that you're acting pretty immature just because you don't agree with my opinions. I really hate to break it to you, but that's kinda how the world works. You don't always get to be right.
 
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Chesnaught said:
What is Mandibuzz going to do? Ice Fang -> Roost -> Repeat? Besides, Foul Play at +1 is a 3HKO and Ice Fang is a 2HKO, so it'll go like this Taunt -> Mandibuzz cannot use ____ -> Ice Fang -> Foul Play -> Ice Fang.
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I wish I had a replay, but exactly as you said Ice Fang -> Roost -> Repeat, it works
 
Mastoise said:
I wish I had a replay, but exactly as you said Ice Fang -> Roost -> Repeat, it works
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What if that Gyarados ran Stone Edge? It's definitely a viamble move considering it does more damage to Zapdos and Mandibuzz and still OHKOes or heavily dents everything that is x4 weak to it except Garchomp(Landorus and Gliscor don't count since they're weak to Waterfall). Seriously the only mon that makes Ice Fang considerably better than Stone Edge is Venusaur.
 
Talpr0ne said:
What if that Gyarados ran Stone Edge? It's definitely a viamble move considering it does more damage to Zapdos and Mandibuzz and still OHKOes or heavily dents everything that is x4 weak to it except Garchomp(Landorus and Gliscor don't count since they're weak to Waterfall). Seriously the only mon that makes Ice Fang considerably better than Stone Edge is Venusaur.
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Not even. Ice fang is neutral to mega venusaur.
 
Okay we've spent a whole page discussing whether mega gyarados can beat mandibuzz which honestly doesn't really matter. Gyarados still deserves A+ and not because it can beat mandi there have been plenty of excellent arguments why I can reiterate these if anyone desires.

Rotosect Kyurem-Black is an excellent mon but it's inability to do much against offensive teams due to its poor speed tier makes it only A+. Kyurem's merit of "breaking stall" has been eroding as of late as stall teams are adapting to this threat with Pokemon such as Sylveon and Mega Scizor. For these reasons I think Kyurem-B is fine where it is.
 
There was even talk of dropping K-B down a peg to A in the VR thread, so I think K-B will be happy to stay in A+ for now. His standard Sub + Fusion Bolt, Ice Beam and Earth Power set is usually easily managed by stall because of that set being a common consideration when building a stall team and Chansey copes with it fine. His lesser used sets are probably the better ones actually, the physical variation of the Sub + 3 attacks is good, but usually his sets have exploitable flaws in some way or another against stall, like the LO set being able to be stalled out quite quickly and the CB set being neutralized effectively by simple switching since there's a counter for each one of his moves and he needs to be able to switch moves to be truly effective.
 
acestriker19 said:
Okay we've spent a whole page discussing whether mega gyarados can beat mandibuzz which honestly doesn't really matter. Gyarados still deserves A+ and not because it can beat mandi there have been plenty of excellent arguments why I can reiterate these if anyone desires.

Rotosect Kyurem-Black is an excellent mon but it's inability to do much against offensive teams due to its poor speed tier makes it only A+. Kyurem's merit of "breaking stall" has been eroding as of late as stall teams are adapting to this threat with Pokemon such as Sylveon and Mega Scizor. For these reasons I think Kyurem-B is fine where it is.
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And kyube adapted with Iron head. It is also a great scarf user as it can easily OHKO a lot of sweepers.
 
Kyurem-B is really good, but not always good. Let's discuss Hydreigon! Don't emphasize on his new 4x fairy weakness as if it's unusable with it. Specs or Life Orb, Hydreigon is a powerful wallbreaker with its great mixed stats and great movepool. It's certainly better than Infernape! He can also run a Scarf and be a nice sweeper overall. I'd say Hydreigon for B rank. I tried one and it was OK. Another amazing BL with no rank is Gothitelle. Why should you ever use a Gothitelle with those type of stats? Shadow Tag and a small but perfect movepool. It can trap and destroy common walls and cores such as Venusaur, Heatran, Skarmory, Slowbro and more. It can Trick its Specs onto a pesky CroCune on the predicted Calm Mind and kill it with Psyshock. However, he can only defeat those pokemon and rarely puts up more work than that. That's why I rank Gothitelle B rank. Haxorus needs a mention too and even though I personally haven't used it, I've seen enough to explain my rank. Once a scary physical monster, we can safely say the fairies got to this dragon. There was a time when it could spam Outrage and destroy puppies, but now a Dedenne can stand in the way and... not Dazzling Gleam because it has no fairy STAB. He's easy to predict, revenge-kill, or just wall. Haxorus is C+ rank. Last but not least, the bamp luchador bird is coming to fight! But its not good in OU :( In UU, it could force switches with its great typing, Sword's Dance, activate Unburden and kill your family. In OU it can die to priority, be checked by the best and most common pokemon, and set up and not sweep. Hawlucha is C- rank.

Oooh! I forgot normal Venusaur. I can't rank it but you guys can discuss it.
 
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The Shellder Smuggler said:
Well some people have time. I didn't have a lot of it and just wanted to throw out my thoughts. You can be my guest and deal with it, if it's too hard for you to understand.

Just pointing out too that you're acting pretty immature just because you don't agree with my opinions. I really hate to break it to you, but that's kinda how the world works. You don't always get to be right.
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This point wasn't aimed at you, so calm down. If you don't have time, it doesn't matter, it still is not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion. I'm not acting immature, I'm disagreeing with you because I disagree with you, if I wanted to be immature I would've said your ideas were shit, but did I? I never said I was right and I never said that you weren't, so stop acting like I'm the bad guy. We're both right in our own eyes, but someone has to either agree or disagree with you and calling me immature for picking disagree is very silly. Anyways, I'm not arguing further because this is a waste of time.

I use Kyurem-B extensively, and no, it isn't S-Rank. It is very powerful and can break through Stall teams rather easily. Sub / IB / FB / EP [yay abbreviations!] is easily the best set, I find that it gets a perfect blend of bulk, Speed, and power!
 
Chesnaught said:
This point wasn't aimed at you, so calm down. If you don't have time, it doesn't matter, it still is not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion. I'm not acting immature, I'm disagreeing with you because I disagree with you, if I wanted to be immature I would've said your ideas were shit, but did I? I never said I was right and I never said that you weren't, so stop acting like I'm the bad guy. We're both right in our own eyes, but someone has to either agree or disagree with you and calling me immature for picking disagree is very silly. Anyways, I'm not arguing further because this is a waste of time.

I use Kyurem-B extensively, and no, it isn't S-Rank. It is very powerful and can break through Stall teams rather easily. Sub / IB / FB / EP [yay abbreviations!] is easily the best set, I find that it gets a perfect blend of bulk, Speed, and power!
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So does this mean I'm the one acting immature? :( Sorry. Anyway Venusaur sounds like it should be around C rank and I think we should rank some more pokemon. Reuniclus is C+ rank. Toxicroak is C rank. Exploud is C rank. Milotic is B rank. Tornadus is C+ rank.
 
No, but would you care to
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts said:
So does this mean I'm the one acting immature? :( Sorry. Anyway Venusaur sounds like it should be around C rank and I think we should rank some more pokemon. Reuniclus is C+ rank. Toxicroak is C rank. Exploud is C rank. Milotic is B rank. Tornadus is C+ rank.
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explain why you believe each of these ratings?
 
Chesnaught said:
No, but would you care to

explain why you believe each of these ratings?
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Yes I'll explain. Thought it was obvious. Reuniclus is the best Trick Room sweeper but the popularity of Aegislash and Knock Off don't let it sweep. I changed my mind on Toxicroak, C- Rank. It's main niche is boosting Sucker Punch and scaring fairies with Gunk Shot. It has horrible stats and a decent typing. Exploud only Boombursts. Milotic is a great wall with a perfect movepool and great stats. Tornadus is... I don't know.
 
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Tornadus has the niche of setting rain and taunting with priority and abusing horribly powerful hurricanes in rain. Rain HO is very powerful, though having only that niche would be understandable, that it would be somewhere C-around.
 
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts said:
So the only one in the dark about its rank is regular Venusaur. Chlorophyll sweeper. I haven't used one but after analyzing it, I'd say C+ or C rank for Venusaur.
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Are you going to provide some sort of explanation why? That would probably help, seeing that regular Venusaur is really rare, and most of us (me included) probably haven't seen it this gen.
 
rachet67 said:
Are you going to provide some sort of explanation why? That would probably help, seeing that regular Venusaur is really rare, and most of us probably haven't seen it this gen.
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Yeah. MegaVenu wasn't good for normal venusaur.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure Venusaur's best sets this gen are AV and Chlorophyll. And weather teams aren't that common due to the nerf.
 
rachet67 said:
Are you going to provide some sort of explanation why? That would probably help, seeing that regular Venusaur is really rare, and most of us (me included) probably haven't seen it this gen.
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It still has an analysis. It's usually only used on dedicated sun teams, which are very rare. However, it's super speedy and very powerful, and has great bulk for an offensive pokemon.

It is super reliant on sun though, so much that it can't really function at all without it. Because of this, it can't really be placed any higher than Ninetales, which is C+.
I'd place it at C or C-, as since it's getting an analysis, it's clearly too good for D.
 
LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts said:
Haxorus needs a mention too and even though I personally haven't used it, I've seen enough to explain my rank. Once a scary physical monster, we can safely say the fairies got to this dragon. There was a time when it could spam Outrage and destroy puppies, but now a Dedenne can stand in the way and... not Dazzling Gleam because it has no fairy STAB. He's easy to predict, revenge-kill, or just wall. Haxorus is C+ rank.
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I've defended Haxorus a couple times as to why it is good enough for B- rank. I'll repeat myself Haxorus does not care about fairies as none can reliably switch into a Dragon Dance Haxorus, while spamming outrage was fine last gen Haxorus still can get by with Dragon Claw, It has a very different niche this gen than last and that should be taken into account.
Some Calcs to prove my point
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 448-528 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 408-482 (103.5 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 326-384 (107.2 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Mawile has to mevo though earlier in the match for Hax to get this KO but that shouldn't be that hard to pull off)
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 328-388 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If this isn't suitable Iron Tail can OHKO physically defensive Sylveon as well with a noticeable accuracy drop.
Dragon Dance Haxorus does not give any craps about fairy types, swords dance Hax doesn't care either.
I'm going to just quote my old arguements as they haven't been refuted and theres not much else to add

Haxorus deserves more credit than its given as Mold Breaker makes it one of the best stallbreakers with SD in the meta as it doesn't give a shit about unaware cores and has very nice speed for beating stall. As a DD-sweeper being able to break multiscale, levitate and again unaware are really excellent. Haxorus isn't countered by fairies either as it can use poison jab to break through. Haxorus still has trouble with Gliscor, Skarmory and the like and has pretty poor bulk but there are actually reasons to use him over Dragonite and Charizard X as he has different counters as such he should be B- actually.
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This is the reason why Haxorus is always the wing-man in double dragon teams as despite his seeming similarities to other DD sweepers such as Dragonite and Zard X, Haxorus beats lots of their counters with Mold Breaker and the ones he does not break he severely cripples such as Gliscor. Base 97 speed isn't bad at all most Dragon Dancers: Dragonite, Mega T-tar and Gyarados sit around the base 70-80 range so on this point Haxorus is actually better and can afford to invest more into bulk. Haxorus is a really solid physical wallbreaker with a Swords Dance set despite his low bulk. Double Dance is still a viable opitons with things such as taunt/encore support to ensure free turns. Since Haxorus is already so powerful it can afford to carry a lum berry instead of life orb thus negating burns.
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Sergeant Spooky said:
It still has no good way to get past Ferrothorn or Mega Scizor.

It's just not S.
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HP Fire?

Kyurem-B should be S rank. Even with a barren movepool, kyurem-b is actually pretty versatile, thanks to its ridiculous offensive stats. It might be weak to SR, but so is charizard, and look where its mega forms are. Kyurem-B can ruin a stall/balanced team with a simple mixed LO set and actually wins against many fairy-types 1-on-1 (azumarill and togekiss - fusion bolt; mawile - earth power; gardevoir - max attack fusion bolt or iron head; klefki - earth power). The mixed LO set can also beat what would it be its "counters" by changing one move. If Ferro's a problem, just use HP Fire. For Aegislash and Mawile, earth power. For fairy-tpyes not named Azumarill, iron head.
Offensive teams aren't very safe either, there's the threat of a scarf set, which beats talonflame, both forms of charizard (as long as mega zard x didn't get the chance to boost), terrakion, landorus-t, etc etc.
Not even mentioning the band set which doesn't even need Iron Head, just Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fusion Bolt and Earth Power. With a bit of prediction it kos at least 2 pokemon.

Kyurem-B is versatile and deadly. The Choice sets appreciate rapid spin/defog support, yes, but it's not a requirement. S rank please
 
Aurious said:
Bisharp (after a SD your Team is down, it can trap u with pursuit and has prio with sucker punch, you can't switch in good because of knock off) and Talonflame (prio brave bird can destroy teams, it can heal himself with prio roost and can boost with SD) for S. Furthermore the normal t-tar (can trap with pursuit, has an excellent coverage with stuff like ice beam, crunch, eq, earth power, thunderbolt, stone edge and flamethrower, it can destroy teams after 1-2 dds).
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Keldeo.

And while I can't force everyone to use Keldeo his is still probably one of the best ways to beat Bisharp.
 
I love how every time I check, there are more Pokemon that still need to be ranked. I can't believe I forgot Weavile. Plus, Seismitoed just got added to the list. This time, I'll actually post my, albeit breif, reasoning.
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Hydreigon is very powerful and bulky, and is a great momentum gainer with Scarf U-Turns. It is entirely walled by Azumarill, and hates being 4x weak to fairy, but it's still rather effective now. I'd say B.
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Very underrated. While not the most powerful, it's super speedy, and still can pack quite a punch. Its Knock Off is very disrupting, its Ice Punch has nice a nice typing + STAB, Ice Shard can pick off threats, and Low Kick hits Ttar and Heatran hard. It has terrible bulk, but still deserves B.
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It destroys stall, with Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, Quagsire, Heatran, Hippowdon, and Scizor all collapsing to its possible coverage moves, and all defensive Pokemon, namely Chansey, despising being forced to take Specs. B-, for being relatively slow and weak without specs.
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Cress is so bulky; there are no OU attacks with over a 7% change to OHKO it. But what can it do with that bulk? Thanks to its ability, its defensive typing isn't that bad, and it can be used to wall common Physical attackers, like Garchomp, to hell and back. It has Twave to discourage set-up, as well as the ability to set up Calm Minds, Screens, recover pretty reliably, and just be impossible to kill. I'd say B- or C+.
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Durant is an offensive MONSTER. After one turn of set-up (to +1 mind you), it ends up with an attack stat of 924. Its STAB is useful for killing Fairies, however the problem is that it can't set up on them, and 80% accuracy is very poor. For its immense offensive power, good speed, I'd rank it B-, but set-up is almost mandatory to not miss every other turn, so I may have to go C+.
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Offensive monster, great wall-breaking ability with SD + Outrage + Moldbreaker EQ + Poison Jab. It hates its mono Dragon typing, bad speed, and terrible bulk, but it's still is rather effective and doesn't need setup. Probably B-.
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A very useful Pokemon on rain teams. It has Priority rain dance, and can use it to use super powerful Hurricanes. It also has Prankster taunt and U-Turn for support. However, in any role other than Rain Dance, it's too outclassed by Tornadus-T and Thundurus-I. It has a valuable niche, but the problem is if you use Torn-T on a rain team, which is recommended, you can't use Torn-I. I think C rank is best.
toxicroak.gif
Its Gunk Shot is extremely powerful, and makes Fairy types cower. It is very good in rain, as the passive recovery + a water immunity allow it to SD multiple times. It's also valuable as a fighting type neutral to Fairy. +2 Gunk Shots, Sucker Punchers, and Drain Punches are very scary, and to be honest I think B- is right. But C+ could also work.
zoroark.gif
Very niche, but also very effective, given the right support. It's impossible to know exactly how Zoroark will play out, as it varies immensely. If it pretends to be a specially offensive pokemon, it can bait Chansey it, only to have her Eviolite Knocked off. It can bait so many things, but it also can be pretty predictable. I'd say C, for the valuable niche that always isn't effective, and when it doesn't work, Bisharp or Absol would've probably been better.
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It's a rain sweeper immune to Electric! Its Hydro Pumps are super scary in rain, and it hits a massive speed tier. It also has Earth Power and Sludge wave for coverage. It is certainly rain teams best switch to Thundurus and any electric types, and this niche shouldn't be downplayed. However, its coverage options are very weak. C.
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Synch-Bell is very useful for defensive teams, and Foul Play allows it to handle Aegislash amazingly. Its special bulk is similar to Sylveon, but it trades a stagnant offensive presence for a less reliable one + much better physical bulk. It also has a different typing. In the general sense, it can be thought of outclassed, but it has a niche that allows it to be C, in my opinion.
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I'm getting bored now. I'll just be brief, and talk simply. Sun Sweeper, powerful, bulky,, but sun is poor. C
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Powerful Shell Smasher. No priority, weak to mach punch, poor accuracy of moves. C.
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Powerful, cool abilities, bad typing, great trick room user. C
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Forms good regenerator cores, but usually outclassed by Mega Venusaur. C.
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Super powerful at +2, but is reliant on its environment to get to +2. For this reliance, I'd say C.
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Boomburst = Nuke. Its coverage, however, is pretty weak, it has only decent bulk and poor speed. C
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Sticky Web + SR + Encore is a niche, but Sticky Web usually isn't good, thanks to Bisharp. C-
omastar.gif
Powerful Shell Smasher, but reliant on either low accuracy or weak moves, + usually deadweight outside of rain. C-
gorebyss.gif
Smashpass is powerful, but it's all Gorebyss can accomplish. C-
hawlucha.gif
Unfortunately it can't really do anything notable. D.
Hopefully we can have discussions on all these Pokemon that stems into the VR forum. I think it's best to talk about Seismitoed, Toxicroak, Tornadus-T, and Omastar should be discussed first, as they are all part of the rain teams that are growing popularity. Just a suggestion.
 
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Ye we've discussed Cress, Hydre, Weav, and Goth in GREAT length already... I'm all for getting un ranked things there, but we've discussed them thoroughly now.
 
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