Serious Smart Guns

[BenTheDemon]

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/the-gun-the-nra-doesnt-want-sold-244605507892?

Hello, Cong! I saw this video while screwing around on Facebook and was really intrigued.
Essentially, what a smart gun is is a rifle that has a small computer inside that tells it when it can an when it cannot fire. So far, there are two major types of smart guns. There are ones that rely on fingerprints to fire, and ones that require a bracelet key to use like the one shown in the video.
To me, this is an amazing accomplishment, and I personally hope that these become the only legal firearms. However, not everyone agrees with me. The NRA's stance is that this is backdoor gun control that will lead us into a world with no guns at all.
But I'd like to know what you think. Do you think that this is a great milestone in gun safety, or do you think that this is the first step of a slippery slope?
Please discuss.

 

[Shinryu]

To me, if people want them as an option, that is fine. Mandatory? Nah, I wouldn't trust then anymore than the safety already on guns; bracelets can easily be stolen, and biometrics like fingerprints are easy enough to fool. So no, just because you put a bit of fancy tech on a gun makes it no safer to me. Proper education in handling and use, along with making sure crazies don't get them in the first place would make them safer, though obviously there's only so much you can do about keeping them from crazies as anyone who really wants one to do evil things will get one one way or another.

 

[BenTheDemon]

To me, if people want them as an option, that is fine. Mandatory? Nah, I wouldn't trust then anymore than the safety already on guns; bracelets can easily be stolen, and biometrics like fingerprints are easy enough to fool. So no, just because you put a bit of fancy tech on a gun makes it no safer to me. Proper education in handling and use, along with making sure crazies don't get them in the first place would make them safer, though obviously there's only so much you can do about keeping them from crazies as anyone who really wants one to do evil things will get one one way or another.

While it is true that 100% safety is an impossibility, I think these advancements will drastically lower the amount of gun-related accidents. I am all in favor of New Jersey's law to ban non-smart guns whenever smart guns become popular.

 

[moonbound]

They seem like a really good as an optional thing, but making them mandatory would A) probably be a constitutional violation and B) create an instant monopoly while wiping out the rest of the gun industry. Obviously gun control would be far from solved, as the ~600 annual accidental gun deaths are a miniscule portion of the problem. However, that's still 600 families every year, and there's no reason why the smart guns shouldn't be sold as long as they aren't made mandatory (plus any attempt to ban or heaven forbid confiscate non-smart guns would definitely lead to hundreds of cases of armed resistance at minimum).

edit: yeah, all of this is assuming the technology is foolproof which obviously won't be the case for years

 

[faint]

Fingerprint scanners are easily hacked and the watch version seems very inconvenient. I wouldn't want to rely on technology to decide if my gun wants to shoot especially if I'm in a life threatening situation.

 

[Agonist]

I wouldn't want to rely on technology to decide if my gun wants to shoot especially if I'm in a life threatening situation.

This. If the computer in the gun decides to fuck up for whatever reason, then what?

 

[DetroitLolcat]

If these become mainstream then gun hacking will soon follow. Any device with a computer is a device vulnerable to malware.

 

[Ash Borer]

This. If the computer in the gun decides to fuck up for whatever reason, then what?

and what if the firearm just jams in itself? Didn't stop the US army from adopting the M16

#rekt

At any rate this is obviously a good idea, but it's in its infancy, so, dont expect it to be adopted in the near future.

 

[noobcubed]

So - how do these guns actually work? (The video didn't work for me).

Oh, and by the way, the NRA's complaint that "this will lead to a world with no guns at all?" That sounds like a great world to me! I have no problem with guns for protection but it's only ever going to be protection from other people who are misusing their guns, so if nobody has them there shouldn't be a problem. But I'm not American, so...

 

[Asek]

I think educating people about guns and only letting responsible people have ownership is a better idea than making the gun itself 'smart'

However, not everyone agrees with me. The NRA's stance is that this is backdoor gun control that will lead us into a world with no guns at all..

What is particularly bad about this anyway, the only groups in the world that need guns are really are people working in protective services such as the military and maybe people who go hunting

 

[Rotosect]

The best form of gun control is less guns.
I would support an outright ban, but since this isn't realistically going to happen here's the next best thing:
if you want to own a gun (and your job doesn't involve owning one), then every single person in your household needs to pass a series of IQ/personality/medical tests, plus your income needs to be reasonably high (#1 reason poor people get guns is to commit robbery). If there is a single person who can't meet the requirements, such as mentally instable people, then you can't own a gun as long as you live in that household.
Also, since school shootings usually involve perfectly legal firearms owned by the perpetrator's parents/older siblings, the presence of underage family members who may potentially commit those (including and especially bullying victims) would automatically disqualify you from owning a gun.

 

[internet]

If these become mainstream then gun hacking will soon follow. Any device with a computer is a device vulnerable to malware.

You are correct about computers and malware vulnerability, but unless these guns have wi-fi or even a USB outlet it's gonna take a lot of effort to get that malware onto the gun. Plus, all the malware could do is block the gun from firing, or change the allowed user. There's no way this gun can automatically fire, and if it could, that's completely retarded.

 

[billymills]

Wifi enabled guns are coming. How else are you going to stream your kills on twitch.

 

[Soul Fly]

The NRA's stance is that this is backdoor gun control that will lead us into a world with no guns at all.

How is that a bad thing?

even if so, it is just NRA basically admitting that guns cannot be owned for legit reasons. o.O a.k.a shooting itself in the foot ................

 

[Stratos]

I'm of the opinion that as long as we have a southern border, gun control will always be more effective at stopping law-abiding citizens from defending themselves than stopping gun deaths.

That being said, this technology is cool (think MA?) and once it's worked out then I would like to see most conscientious citizens buying smart guns, but some sort of ban on other guns just seems like a bad idea.

 

[macle]

everyone should own at least 1 gun

 

[WaterBomb]

The only guns I need are located between my shoulder and my elbow!

Anyway I think this is neat technology, and if it is made workable it certainly can decrease the number of accidental gun deaths. I doubt it will be made mandatory so it's not going to go a great distance in decreasing ALL gun violence, but hey it's progress. I'll take a baby step over no step at all.

 

[Aladyyn]

Wifi enabled guns are coming. How else are you going to stream your kills on twitch.

 

[Outlaw]

Just like you can modify a semi-auto into a full auto, one will be able to make a 'smart gun' into a 'dumb gun.'

Not to mention the possibility of a kill switch to make all guns useless.

 

[Minwu]

guns can't synthesize medicine or larger crops, or autonomize engineering

 

[faint]

and what if the firearm just jams in itself? Didn't stop the US army from adopting the M16

#rekt

At any rate this is obviously a good idea, but it's in its infancy, so, dont expect it to be adopted in the near future.

Most gun jams are caused by user error, whether from a dirty chamber due to lack of cleanliness or misuse of the slide on hand-guns. Not saying you didn't know this, but I assume a lot of people would reply similarly to you by arguing guns don't need technology to fail to fire.

But then again I guess user error is also the primary cause of technological errors.

 

[Agonist]

Most gun jams are caused by user error, whether from a dirty chamber due to lack of cleanliness or misuse of the slide on hand-guns. Not saying you didn't know this, but I assume a lot of people would reply similarly to you by arguing guns don't need technology to fail to fire.

But then again I guess user error is also the primary cause of technological errors.

and what if the firearm just jams in itself? Didn't stop the US army from adopting the M16

#rekt

At any rate this is obviously a good idea, but it's in its infancy, so, dont expect it to be adopted in the near future.

In the case of the M16, one of the major reasons why it had such a shit record early on was because many soldiers were told it was self-cleaning (it wasn't). Obviously if you don't clean your rifle in an environment like Vietnam, then it will develop problems. Once they corrected that, and a couple other things, it turned out to be a reliable weapon.

I'm not saying that smart guns won't be reliable, but take the fingerprint one. If you don't put your finger on it just right, will it still fire? What if you have something on your finger that partially obscures your fingerprint, or conversely, something's on the fingerprint scanner? That's the point I was trying to make (and I should have expanded on it, but whatever, I'm doing it now).

 

[Zebstrika]

and what if the firearm just jams in itself? Didn't stop the US army from adopting the M16

#rekt

At any rate this is obviously a good idea, but it's in its infancy, so, dont expect it to be adopted in the near future.

But in these the computer can fuck up AND it can still jam

 

[Deck Knight]

The problem with the smart gun is it will not prevent criminals and gangs from simply producing the old fashioned "dumb" kind of gun for use in their illegal activities. It's solely a limitation that will, by design, only be imposed on law abiding citizens to make them less safe and easier to control (i.e. the killswitch).

Guns simply aren't that complex. All you need is a properly fitted projectile, a catalyst to launch it, a barrel on the gun so it can be properly aimed, and a locking mechanism to ensure the force of the catalyzed explosion pushes your projectile down the barrel instead of redistributing the force throughout the entire weapon and disassembling it / blowing off your hand. Then all you're really talking about is how many rounds you want to be able to fire, in which case if more than one, you just need to create a pressurized mechanism to ensure the chamber is loaded and the force can't be effectively redistributed to the additional chambers.

Why do you think those 3-D Printers have been able to make a single-round firing gun? Because a gun is nothing more than a mechanism to ensure the force of an explosion created within the weapon is redirected into a projectile sent in a specific direction desired by the user. That's it.

It's nice to see people think only law enforcement needs guns. I guess criminals only rob from police officers or threaten the property and lives of only police officers. A nice utopia to live with if you can deal with the rainbow colored unicorn shit.

 

[Chou Toshio]

On the other hand Deck, a lot of terrible incidents of gun violence in the US comes down not to criminal activity, but guns misused by non-owner citizens (ie kids and family of gun owners). In these incidents, a smart gun would be a big preventative measure-- I think that's unfoubtful. So, if the weapon can be used to effectively work for it's intended user, society stands to see more peace just from preventing those incidents.

Meanwhile, having to making guns dumb is just one more barrier to would be criminals. I'd have to say the overall effect seems heavily weighed to greater social safety.