Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Really we just cleared up the lower rankings and now you are suggesting extremely niche Pokemon again.
I don't get why we have to "clear up" the lower rankings. There are a lot of not-so-great Pokemon that still have a small niche and the viability rankings should represent that. We shouldn't have an obligation to remove our least favorites off of the viability ranking thread if they're not that bad, and in my opinion Milotic is not bad enough to not be represented at all.

Honestly I like Defensive Meloetta. Also note that (on offensive Meloetta) Relic Song is still STAB and can hit certain Pokemon hard, not to mention using it reverses Meloetta's checks and counters. Its niche is pretty small, but it performs it well enough to be higher than D, I think.

Obviously Trick Room isn't the best playstyle in the world, but it's not like it was in previous generations either. Almost all offensive Trick Room setters have good coverage that allows them to beat certain Pokemon that would be considered their counters and checks, and defensive ones at least cripple their checks and counters before switching. If certain Pokemon that need or greatly appreciate Trick Room to function are sitting higher up in the rankings, then why not give some credit to the Pokemon that support them as well? Sticky Web and Trick Room are not the same thing at all. After a Sticky Web, Pokemon with around 70 or 80 base speed start to outspeed things. With Trick Room Pokemon with 10 to 60 base speed outspeed things, not to mention that Sticky Web boosts Bisharp's attack or doesn't affect Flying-types. Trick Room and Sticky Web are very different, IMO. Sticky Web teams often only have a single setter, while Trick Room teams are usually half setters. There also aren't very many teams that don't revolve around Sticky Web but still use it, while Trick Room setters that just support one or two Pokemon aren't unheard of. Also Hyper Offense is still considered the best and most popular playstyle, and just because Aegislash and a few megas were introduced doesn't mean that frail Pokemon don't exist.

The point of Cofagrigus is to be a good, bulky, defensive Trick Room setter that can still deal damage if needed. Very few other ghost-types are slow and bulky and have access to Trick Room. Also, currently it's D not unranked (and it has to be ranked because it has an analysis), and saying that every physical attacker has Knock Off is an overexaggeration. Perhaps C- is the place for it and Reuniclus, but wherever, it shouldn't be D, nor unranked.
Gourgeist small has a bad attack and high speed. It acts as a quick staller with Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, and Substitute, not as a Trick Room suicide lead. Their niches are completely different, so there's no point in comparing them.

I've never heard of a team that was so weak to Volt-turn that it needed a dedicated Pokemon to counter them. Besides, most Volt-Turn Pokemon can at least 3HKO Gastrodon, so it's not going to be walling their whole team, especially not the parts of their team that don't carry U-turn or Volt Switch.

Snorlax was worse in generation 5, not better. Snorlax never runs curse anyways, the only set I've ever heard of is Assault Vest. 252+ Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 122-144 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Sure sure, piss weak non-stab. And that's Shield form, even though Snorlax is slower and will therefore have a high chance of OHKOing it. Not to mention Earthquake, which can 2HKO shield form and OHKO blade form. Snorlax is not too hard to wear down due to it's lack of recovery, but the same can be said for many bulky Pokemon. However I'm not the person to argue for this, really. Snorlax just seems way better than a D rank Pokemon, as it's not just a niche Char-Y counter and it seems alright.

There are two Pokemon on rain dance teams with an electric immunity. Seismitoad and Thundurus-T. Seismitoad is faster but weaker than Thundurus-T as the only move that it can use that is powerful is Hydro Pump, as it's coverage moves don't really do much at all. Thundurus-T has powerful Thunder as well as powerful coverage, as well as a grass resistance and an ice weakness, meaning it will usually have better synergy with the rest of the team. That's not to say that Seismitoad is bad though, it's pretty good, but it doesn't really outclass Thundurus-T, nor does Thundurus-T really outclass it that much.

Mantine and Gyarados and Swampert and Quagsire don't necessarily compete for a teamslot. They all perform fairly different roles, but you wouldn't use them on the same team together. And Gyarados will be asleep just as much of the time as Mantine. Gyarados checks many Pokemon, Mantine hard counters a few specific ones, mainly Charizard Y and Landorus. (Now Swampert) In my experience phazing with hazards is more reliable than forcing switches while hazards are out because then your opponent gets to pick and the Pokemon that you're trying to force out could very likely have a coverage move to nail you, although you probably have Protect or something similar as well. I've never heard of a defensive team without hazards. Also Skarmory doesn't have mixed bulk, which IMO most phazers should have since you don't want to be switching out after every other Roar/Whirlwind.

Empoleon's secondary steel typing does almost nothing for it. It gives it two extra weaknesses and turns a resistance into a neutrality for a Dragon resistance (amongst more unimportant resistances) and a neutrality to Grass, which isn't a very common attacking type anyways. I guess it sort of has a niche as a check to certain Pokemon such as some Dragon-types, but that's done better by other Pokemon anyways. Its Steel STAB is unneeded and doesn't give it much more coverage.
 
Breloom's viability is increasing everyday as the metagame progresses. Mach Punch/Drain Punch are a good stop to Sand and Deosharp, and it was kind of held back by Mega Venu's S rank viability but everyday there are less and less of those because of how easy they are to counter. I wouldn't mind it being in A- but I believe A is a much more appropriate rank for it in today's metagame
I have to second this. Sashloom has only grown in viability with the advent of the Tyranitar-Excadrill combination, and the Toxic heal set is really underrated, being easy to switch in and wrong foot the opponent with. I'm not sure about bringing it to A, but it absolutely belongs above a B+ rank, since even if you misplay it, it very rarely fails to make an impact.
 
I agree Breloom def should stay in A- rank, for now, the versatility of his moveset and the presence of sash makes him a huge threat. No body wants to switch in on breloom, ur taking a spore, bullet seed , rock tomb, mach punch...all from tech base 130. not even usual check/counters as pinsir/tflame due to sash + rock tomb. Rock Tomb on the switch + bullet seed can KO Latios most of the time. Then there's the unpredictability of the lesser used but still dangerous defensive toxic heal/seed set. Breloom checks/RK M-Gyara and M-Ttar w/ mach punch which is huge. Also can do a huge chunk to unevolved mawile on the switch. When you see a breloom with sash intact, something is going down....just very scary to face most of the time because it's almost guaranteed to do its job.
 
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Thirding (Is that a word?) Gengar for A+. I run a very unorthodox set on mine (Sash-Counter with Destiny Bond, Taunt, and Shadow Ball), and it works as well as any of Gengar's plethora of sets!
It can run the classic Sub-Disable set, a SubSplit set, a Scarf Set, a support set with Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond/Etcetera, Etcetera, Etcetera! It can even run the old Protect + 3 Attacks set from DPP now that Bisharp is a really common sight. Although Gengar has competition in its individual roles, its versatility is near unmatched, making it hard to predict and definitely deserves the A+ rank.




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Nominating Dragonite for A+ as well. This thing really belongs with the other Dragons like Kyurem-B and Garchomp (Mega-Gyarados gets an honorary mention.) Like Gengar, it is extremely versatile, pulling off Weakness Policy better than any OU Pokemon! Getting Dragonite to +2 Attack is a cinch! Pair that with Extreme Speed, a move that any Physical attacker would kill for, and you've got an absolute monster with +2 Priority! Pair that with his monstrous 134 Attack and an easy +2 Attack boost, this thing can sweep with little support. Multiscale is an excellent ability which makes Weakness Policy all the more potent! He also can set up free Dragon Dances if you can keep Multiscale up!

However, Dragonite can also pull of many other sets including a Bulky set with Roost to abuse the hell out of Multiscale while still having an offensive presence. It can also pull of a pure Special or Mixed set with a great movepool and that often overlooked 100 Base SpA stat. It can also run a ParaShuffle set which even with the introduction of Faires is still annoying. And lastly, it can run Lum Berry to throw off opponents and get a free Dragon Dance while they essentially waste a status move.




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Also, Mega Charizard-Y belongs back in S. I may sound like a broken record, but I strongly believe this. I know everyone's gonna bring up Chansey and Blissey, but Thundurus can't break them either, and he's in S. This thing requires no setup. Just Fire Blast away and nothing will appreciate it. It also has decent special bulk and the sun mitigates its weakness to Water. Though it may not be in the Elite speed tier, it's fast enough to wreck. It even OHKOs Tyranitar trying to take away its Sun with a Focus Blast. It's only shortcoming is Stealth Rock but it has Roost and its strengths WAY outweigh its weakness.


I know people will try to bring up that I'm nominating my team members for a higher rank, but I use them because I find them to be good, not the other way around.​
You really can't be comparing Thundurus to Charizard Y. Charizard Y isn't even the best wallbreaker in the tier. Thundurus stops baton pass or any sweeper with prankster, and can run a great defiant set. It's more useful and versatile than Charizard Y, which is why it's S rank.
 
You really can't be comparing Thundurus to Charizard Y. Charizard Y isn't even the best wallbreaker in the tier. Thundurus stops baton pass or any sweeper with prankster, and can run a great defiant set. It's more useful and versatile than Charizard Y, which is why it's S rank.
I wouldn't say that it stops Baton Pass. Espeon is way too common on Baton Pass teams.
 
I wouldn't say that it stops Baton Pass. Espeon is way too common on Baton Pass teams.

And it is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt, so the whole argument is moot.

EDIT;
I've played this scenario many times:
Scolipede leads for me, Thundurus leads for opponent.
Scolipede uses Protect, Thundurus uses Taunt.
Thundurus uses Taunt, it's cured by the Mental Herb, Scolipede Baton Passes to Espeon
Thundurus uses Thunderbolt on Espeon
Repeat

Or, Thundurus can spam Thunderbolt on you until you switch to anything else and Taunt it, to bluff not having Taunt.
 
There's talk of the MamoSwine in VR..general thoughts are that this guy is huge and can really do some damage with LO Ice Shard, icicle crash, eq, freeze dry, set up rocks, can have oblivious for taunts... he's sitting in A- now and i think that's good, no moving down...i guess im a mediocre "player", but i love building teams, and somehow almost all of the varied teams i make outside of stall have huge problems with mamo...no switching in on him please, no revenging withe latios ;~; At first i thought he was a dud, why would i ever use him but he just makes me panic so much bc i realize wtf hes gonna kill something this goddam ancient elephant is gonna take down my sophisticated mons... so yea, A- is great, he isn't that slow, just a bit behind exca..p useful imo, with skarm, zap, mandi, manaphy, breloom, rotum-w in A-...sash lead w/ rocks is p much guaranteed..love/hate relationship which is like what A- is.

like , to compare, Skarm - love him when only phys attkrs are left...ur screwed if thundy or ninja or anything with special attacks is waiting around and u dont have chansey or are pressured by a strong phsyical or pursuit on chans. Mandibuzz can be excellent against shadow baller aegi, bisharp, even those set up guys who cant break thru like dnite, charx sometimes. BUt, weakness to rocks means a lot of times shes getting double switche on and ends up being so low health she's basically death fodder later. Manaphy I like, tail glow set is what i have used and it can be v good. Honestly she was ranked higher earlier and i *think* A- could be debatable but im not going go for it. Especially cuz strong special attackers are good bc everyone's prepared for physical metagame. Breloom ive talked about. Rotom-w is just a little bish burning and switching and he's not that great tbh but he's still v annoying and can be good. #lovehate. same with chansey, could be higher if stall was a bit more prominent imo. Zappy is p good, but SR weakness when trying to defog is annoying as we know...and Latias in A-, i always use latios except if i expressly need/want healing wish, or want like a bulky defogger for more balanced team. ya, thats my descriptions of A- for now, peace
 
None of those can safely switch in bar the blobs.
Dragonite is taken down by a Fire Blast after switching into Steal Rocks and a Fire Blast on the switch.
Zard X is taken down if it's hit with a Fire Blast on the switch before Mega Evolving followed by a Focus Blast (I actually just took one out that way).
Garchomp can revenge kill, but it takes a good 50% or more if it switches into Fire Blast.
The blobs wall it. No question there.
AV Azumarill isn't that common, but is 2HKOed by Solar Beam, so it can't safely switch in.
Scarf Excadrill is easily OHKOed by both Fire Blast and Fail Blast. Definitely not a safe switch in. Plus Air Balloon is much more common. And Scarf Excadril can be seen from a mile away.
Fire Blast has an 87.5% chance to OHKO Landorus-T on the switch.
Sash Breloom cannot switch in either.

Yes, Zard-Y has some checks, but not too many counters.

I stand by Zard-Y for S.

EDIT: Forgot Heatran. Focus Blast.

I don't have the time to argue points that have been said a million times before, but I'm pretty sure any competent dragonite user will not be switching into rocks. Also, considering Zard-Y's speed tier, a lot of shit forces it out, and it is easily revenged, especially by the shit Subject 18 posted. Zard-Y is well prepared for nowadays, with HO teams having extremely fast 'mons to revenge it, while stall teams have chansey (stop saying blobs, blissey is irrelevant). Zard-Y should stay A+, because while its good, it has some glaring weaknesses, like rocks. Defog is not the be all end all of hazard removal, and we should stop treating it as such.

IMO mods should use the Conclusion Reached section at the bottom of the OP, so we stop having the same damn arguments every 10 pages. Zard-Y has been brought up so many times during the duration of this thread, and once we find a definitive place for it, it should stay there until the meta shifts. The same can be said for a bunch of other pokes.

Also, can we blacklist Mantine? That shit has been brought up way too much, and people need to realize it fucking sucks.
 
I also think that Mamo is fine where he is. He makes for a good lead with Oblivious and his LO set is extremely threatening as there arent that many things that can safely switch into it. Yes its always a prediction game but still, the power is nothing to scoff at and its fast enough to outspeed a good deal of the meta while many of the things he cant outspeed are weak to his priority. It doesnt add much defensive synergy but thats true for many good mons. The LO set isnt supposed to last long and switch into stuff anyway, get in dish out massiv damage and die, job done.
 
See, its not so hard to post and actually discuss what people have said. Anyway...

Baharoth and BenTheDemon

Dragonite is taken down by a Fire Blast after switching into Steal Rocks and a Fire Blast on the switch.

The only Dragonite that is ever switching into Zard Y is CbbNite which doesnt lose to Fire Blast anyway. On top of that Dragonite can set up a Dragon Dance on it and kill it assuming it comes in after something died.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 228 SpD Dragonite in Sun: 126-149 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
while in return
64+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 159-187 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 106-125 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Zard X is taken down if it's hit with a Fire Blast on the switch before Mega Evolving followed by a Focus Blast (I actually just took one out that way).

Okay sure but that scenario is beyond rare because any good player will Mega evolve their own Zard X before Zard Y comes in. This only works when Zard Y leads off and the other player doesn't lead off with it. Otherwise this happens:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X in Sun: 90-106 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- 29.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 175-206 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This isnt Bulky DD Zard X which runs 248 HP nor the WoW set. And both of those don't lose it to unless you're using the garbage that is Dragon Pulse.

Garchomp can revenge kill, but it takes a good 50% or more if it switches into Fire Blast.

Chomp can switch in, take the Fire Blast and OHKOs with Stone Edge. Zard Y has to switch out. It's a check.

AV Azumarill isn't that common, but is 2HKOed by Solar Beam, so it can't safely switch in.

yeah its 2hkoed by Solar Beam but Waterfall + Aqua Jet kills Zard Y. Sure it can't directly switch in and beat it but you can revenge kill it or Zard Y comes on it after something was killed.

Scarf Excadrill is easily OHKOed by both Fire Blast and Fail Blast. Definitely not a safe switch in. Plus Air Balloon is much more common. And Scarf Excadril can be seen from a mile away.

Since when is Excadrill a switch in to Zard Y???? You revenge kill it lol

Fire Blast has an 87.5% chance to OHKO Landorus-T on the switch.

Since when is Lando-T a switch in to Zard Y????

Sash Breloom cannot switch in either.

I never said it was though... Sash Loom leads and Zard Y leads, you fire Blast and I rock tomb. down goes Zard Y. You dont need to switch into to it to keep it in check. Zard Y can't even come in on it. If sash is intact when its intact, zard Y loses.


Offensive and balance teams have 2 choices. 1. Sacrifice a mon everytime Zard comes in. 2. Try to fit one of the more or less reliable checks like Dragonite/Latios in your team.

This isn't really true at all. I've made teams that don't feature Dragonite/Lati@s to handle Zard Y and I didn't have to sack a Pokemon everytime it came in. Sure I might have had to predict a bit more but I've managed to play around to and get rid of it. You can't assume that everytime Zard Y comes in it will predict perfectly and get a kill. Again Zard Y isn't bad at all, its great but it has a number of flaws that separate it from the other S-Ranked pokemon. If you look like other S-rank mons, they require little to support to be effective, can't easily be dealt with, and despite being prepared for, they are still very threatening. You can't just say "it hits hard" so it should be S-rank.

On top of what Jaiho said you really need to think about the meta rather than having a close minded approach and saying look at these calc. Ask yourself: How effective is it really at the moment? How much support does it need? How versatile is it? How self sufficient is it? How well do teams handle it? If you really take a step back and look Zard Y has lost a lot of effectiveness. It's not very versatile. It's not really self sufficient and teams are prepared for it without actually trying. It does require a decent amount of support. Everything that you guys mentioned revolves around calcs and sun spamming Fire Blast. That just isn't cutting it anymore.
 
Breloom needs to go back to B+ like alexwolf said in the VR thread. It can only do its job once per match, relies too much on its Sash being intact to do anything to faster threats, gets walled to hell and back by Aegislash, cannot touch Stall, and is easy to check (especially if something has been Spored already).

Charizard Y and Mamoswine are both fine as is. Not going to go into Charizard Y because that's beating a dead horse, but Mamoswine is hard to switch into, can check a lot of shit (including half of the S-Rank), and can even set up SR if you want with Oblivious and a Sash.
 
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Excadrill: A+ Rank -----> S Rank
Excadrill, a Pokemon deemed too powerful for OU last generation returns with a vengeance. The nerf to Sand is a bit of a problem, but Excadrill is such an amazing Pokemon. First, let's look at the description for S Rank:
OP's Description of an S Rank Pokemon said:
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Excadrill is almost the exact definition of S Rank. It's really amazing in the current metagame, and the metagame is shifting towards Tyranitar + Sand Rush Excadrill nowadays, which is amazing. Excadrill can perform a variety of roles effectively, from Choice Scarf (the best Mold Breaker set), to Swords Dance Sand Rush (its most dangerous set), and Rapid Spin. Assault Vest is a lesser used Excadrill as well, but it performs admirably as well. Let's discuss the Choice Scarf set first. The Choice Scarf set turns Excadrill into a very dangerous Pokemon, and a utility Pokemon just oozing potential. It serves a check to many Pokemon and is a fabulous revenge killer. Next, Sand Rush, arguably Excadrill's best set. Excadrill under Sand is well, very difficult to stop. Sand may have been nerfed this generation, but Smooth Rock Tyranitar, one of its essential partners, sets Sand reliably and often enough to not warrant an issue very often. After a Swords Dance, Excadrill can technically be considered at a Shell Smash without the Defense boosts, being at +2 Speed and +2 Attack. Not much cares to stomach its powerful Earthquakes, and not much can truly counter it. Finally, Rapid Spin. Rapid Spin is a really cool set for Excadrill, and is the one that fits very well on Hyperoffense teams, as it allows the safe removal of hazards without getting rid of your own, and with Air Balloon it checks a lot of Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. Now that we've covered the common Excadrill sets, let's talk about it as a Pokemon in itself. Immediately you see Excadrill's outstanding Attack, sitting at a base 135. Its HP is also great, having a base stat of 105 HP. Then, it kind of all goes south. Its Speed is lackluster (without Scarf / Sand Rush), and its Defense / Special Defense are quite bad. But, its HP mitigates the defenses problem somewhat, and its Speed is very easily patched up. Its typing gives it a plethora of resistances, such resistances include Normal-, Flying-, Rock-, Bug-, Steel-, Psychic-, Dragon-, and Fairy-type resistances, which can all come in handy very often. Excadrill's typing leaves it being 4x resistant to Rock, and thus 4x resistant to Stealth Rock, and with Air Ballon, it takes the lowest amount of entry hazards possible bar Magic Guard. Excadrill is a true pain to switch into, it's amazing, and is very versatile.

Now, let's discuss Excadrill's flaws. Excadrill's typing unfortunately leaves it with four very common weaknesses, Fire-, Water-, Ground-, and Fighting-type weaknesses, which are all very common. Excadrill also has issues breaking down more physically-oriented Pokemon, and with lackluster coverage options, with the only really viable one being Rock Slide, it kind of sucks if it doesn't have a super effective move for a certain Pokemon. Iron Head somewhat makes up for this, but it has bland coverage otherwise. Other than that... Excadrill has not too many flaws. And with the description, it has very few flaws that are outweighed by its amazing features. For this reason, I believe Excadrill should take that leap from A+ -----> S.[/quote]
 
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Excadrill: A+ Rank -----> S Rank
Excadrill, a Pokemon deemed too powerful for OU last generation returns with a vengeance. The nerf to Sand is a bit of a problem, but Excadrill is such an amazing Pokemon. First, let's look at the description for S Rank:

Excadrill is almost the exact definition of S Rank. It's really amazing in the current metagame, and the metagame is shifting towards Tyranitar + Sand Rush Excadrill nowadays, which is amazing. Excadrill can perform a variety of roles effectively, from Choice Scarf (the best Mold Breaker set), to Swords Dance Sand Rush (its most dangerous set), and Rapid Spin. Assault Vest is a lesser used Excadrill as well, but it performs admirably as well. Let's discuss the Choice Scarf set first. The Choice Scarf set turns Excadrill into a very dangerous Pokemon, and a utility Pokemon just oozing potential. It serves a check to many Pokemon and is a fabulous revenge killer. Next, Sand Rush, arguably Excadrill's best set. Excadrill under Sand is well, very difficult to stop. Sand may have been nerfed this generation, but Smooth Rock Tyranitar, one of its essential partners, sets Sand reliably and often enough to not warrant an issue very often. After a Swords Dance, Excadrill can technically be considered at a Shell Smash without the Defense boosts, being at +2 Speed and +2 Attack. Not much cares to stomach its powerful Earthquakes, and not much can truly counter it. Finally, Rapid Spin. Rapid Spin is a really cool set for Excadrill, and is the one that fits very well on Hyperoffense teams, as it allows the safe removal of hazards without getting rid of your own, and with Air Balloon it checks a lot of Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. Now that we've covered the common Excadrill sets, let's talk about it as a Pokemon in itself. Immediately you see Excadrill's outstanding Attack, sitting at a base 135. Its HP is also great, having a base stat of 105 HP. Then, it kind of all goes south. Its Speed is lackluster (without Scarf / Sand Rush), and its Defense / Special Defense are quite bad. But, its HP mitigates the defenses problem somewhat, and its Speed is very easily patched up. Its typing gives it a plethora of resistances, such resistances include Normal-, Flying-, Rock-, Bug-, Steel-, Psychic-, Dragon-, and Fairy-type resistances, which can all come in handy very often. Excadrill's typing leaves it being 4x resistant to Rock, and thus 4x resistant to Stealth Rock, and with Air Ballon, it takes the lowest amount of entry hazards possible bar Magic Guard. Excadrill is a true pain to switch into, it's amazing, and is very versatile.

Now, let's discuss Excadrill's flaws. Excadrill's typing unfortunately leaves it with four very common weaknesses, Fire-, Water-, Ground-, and Fighting-type weaknesses, which are all very common. Excadrill also has issues breaking down more physically-oriented Pokemon, and with lackluster coverage options, with the only really viable one being Rock Slide, it kind of sucks if it doesn't have a super effective move for a certain Pokemon. Iron Head somewhat makes up for this, but it has bland coverage otherwise. Other than that... Excadrill has not too many flaws. And with the description, it has very few flaws that are outweighed by its amazing features. For this reason, I believe Excadrill should take that leap from A+ -----> S.
You make a real good argument, but IMO there are a couple of things holding Exca from S rank. First off, Breloom and its mach punch is rising in usage, not to mention the ever-common Azumarill. Second, Exca is outclassed as a sweeper by several mons because of its inability to take out key physically defensive Pokemon (Skarmory, Hippowdon). Also because of its frailty its hard to get it in safely. All that aside, Exca is excellent, but I'm not sure if it deserves S rank.
 
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I think Excadrill is right at home in A+. It's not really that versatile, it's frail, and it's just slow enough to be easily revenge killed.
Excadrill can run a few sets, but each set is easy to predict. Generally, if it's not running a Balloon, it's running a Scarf. It's good, but not S-rank good.
 
Breloom needs to go back to B+ like alexwolf said in the VR thread. It can only do its job once per match, relies too much on its Sash being intact to do anything to faster threats, gets walled to hell and back by Aegislash, cannot touch Stall, and is easy to check (especially if something has been Spored already).

This post has several inaccuracies. First of all sash is only one of its sets and imo the Poison Heal+Substitute is much much better, so it does not realy solely on its sash. Mach Punch helps with its speed. I agree its gets walled by Aegislash but Breloom can spore and then switch to an appropriate counter. It can touch stall with the Substitute/Spore+Focus Punch combo which hurts like hell to any stall pokemon. It is not easy to check because if it behind a Sub or has a sash intact then it will do a good amount of damage or spore you (if something hasn't been spored).
 
This post has several inaccuracies. First of all sash is only one of its sets and imo the Poison Heal+Substitute is much much better, so it does not realy solely on its sash. Mach Punch helps with its speed. I agree its gets walled by Aegislash but Breloom can spore and then switch to an appropriate counter. It can touch stall with the Substitute/Spore+Focus Punch combo which hurts like hell to any stall pokemon. It is not easy to check because if it behind a Sub or has a sash intact then it will do a good amount of damage or spore you (if something hasn't been spored).
Breloom almost always loses its Sash immediately and all it takes for Aegislash to shut it down is to let it put something else to sleep. The reason I brought up Sash in the first place is because that's what Breloom relies on the most when checking offensive Pokemon that outspeed it, which it cannot do if entry hazards are up.

Sub + Poison Heal has to choose between coverage and Spore, since both STABs are mandatory. You're also either choosing between Mach Punch without Technician (with a notable power loss) or Focus Punch (meaning you cannot use your best STAB if your sub is broken).

All Stall needs to do to fuck Breloom over is switch to Mega Venusaur, Mandibuzz (who also is immune to Spore thanks to Overcoat), or Skarmory if you already put something to sleep.
 
... or latias, or chesnaught or or aegislash or poison heal gliscor...

Breloom's best set is definitely that sash lead. Poison heal is more or less garbage given you lose to pokemon you'd check otherwise, such as Talonflame, Pinsir-m, CharizardY.

To be honest, even though Excadrill is very versatile in offensive presence, I wouldn't put it as an S rank... the sets it uses are easy to see as soon as it comes in due to mold breaker and balloons revealing themselves. In team preview, you can spot out dedicated sand rush excadrill and make amends. Scarf Exca takes some prediction to play around, but given one flying type (thundy/lando for example) and one rock resist, you're in the clear to do so.

His performance against stall is less than stellar. Stall just out bulks him, really. He spins well, yes, but most stall will have defog so even as support in those matches if you get your own rocks up, Exca is largely deadweight.

Compare him with other S-rank mons that belong there (For me, this excludes the Deo forms).

Thundy-i has at least three sets, Nasty Plot, Prankster Wave and Defiant. All of them are different in their own role, and his versatility vs offense and stall alike makes him very formidable. He can stop baton pass, sweeps and stall. He can sweep physically via defiant or nasty plot boost to sweep with a trolly 111 speed.

Landorus-i has the most devastating attacks in tier, considering that his power also extends to his coverage moves. Very little switches in comfortably and he has just a boatload of sets to worry about from all out attacker to CM to knock off to even wondering what coverage moves he runs.

Aegislash is my choice for best pokemon in OU, who is equally as versatile on offense as it is on stall. It is almost impossible to make a team worse by adding aegislash, which says almost everything and more about him without having to explain it.

Lastly, ZardX has ferocious power, as well as having a great niche as a stall burn supporter and ZardY stop (stall runs Calm Spdef so gl). With Adamant SD able to break most stall, Ada/Jolly DD being a fantastic sweeper and the Spdef set being excellent for stall, you almost forget you have to guess what form he is coming into the field to begin with.

Imo Exca just doesn't compare with these monsters.
 
Big suprise but i dont think Excadrill belongs in S rank as well. He has 3 sets, one of them is obvious from team preview and the other 2 give themselves away by the Item they are holding, if its not a balloon it will be scarfed like 90% of the time or life orb which you know for sure after the first attack. He doesnt pack much power and is easily walled by every defensive mon in the game, he cant even 2hko Mandybuzz with Rock Slide after SR which is kinda pathetic. That makes him dead weight against stall and against most balanced teams either. With Sandstorm support he is formidable against HO but if TTar dies early Exca is deadweight once again as he is outspeed by almost everything HO runs.

He can get somewhat threatening with SD + LO in the sand but good luck setting that up considering his horrible defenses and even then he is on a timer. Might do some damage in some games but he will be deadweight just as often. Clearly no S rank matieral here imo but i guess in this thread that doesnt mean he wont get there -.-
 
Crobat "C ---------> Unranked: Don't use this thing on a serious OU team. It's just extremely flawed"

Extremly flawed, no explanations, what the fuck? Crobat is very useful. High speed stat, Infiltrator Brave Bird checks many Pokemon, Taunt, Haze, Defog, Roost, 1/4 resistance to U-turn and fighting moves, immunity to Toxic, also a hard counter to almost every Gliscor I face in OU. Mandibuzz can't do all these things. Until Baton Pass gets nerfed, Crobat has been my prized anti-Baton Pass Pokemon that causes Baton Pass users to rage quit. I'd rank Crobat at least C+ since I admit it lacks the defenses Mandibuzz has. By now I've lost faith in the people behind this viability list, it was more accurate back in April.
 
No, it wasn't. Random people shouldn't just arrive and assume that they're potential rankings are right, that they've "lost faith" in the people behind it. Obviously Alex and Gary have the experience and knowledge to make the right judgement calls, but at the moment there's nothing that would lead them to believe that you do. Make a detailed explanation about a Pokemons placement, but to all people that think they are somewhat above the ranking managers, you aren't.
 
Crobat "C ---------> Unranked: Don't use this thing on a serious OU team. It's just extremely flawed"

Extremly flawed, no explanations, what the fuck? Crobat is very useful. High speed stat, Infiltrator Brave Bird checks many Pokemon, Taunt, Haze, Defog, Roost, 1/4 resistance to U-turn and fighting moves, immunity to Toxic, also a hard counter to almost every Gliscor I face in OU. Mandibuzz can't do all these things. Until Baton Pass gets nerfed, Crobat has been my prized anti-Baton Pass Pokemon that causes Baton Pass users to rage quit. I'd rank Crobat at least C+ since I admit it lacks the defenses Mandibuzz has. By now I've lost faith in the people behind this viability list, it was more accurate back in April.

Agreed, I said a similar thing a few pages back that Crobat is a lot more useful than a lot of the other stuff that somehow has managed to stay on the lower end of the list and that other things surely deserved to get the axe long before him. It can't be compared to Mandibuzz though, since Mandi has infinitely better bulk, counters Aegislash, and has access to Foul Play and Knock Off, both of which are much more important in the meta than the options Crobat has. Hard countering SubToxic Gliscor, while nice, isn't particularly difficult and there are more viable options for doing that (Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, any levitating Steel type, etc). That said, I too question a lot of the seemingly knee-jerk decisions that are being made lately about the viability list. I don't mind Crobat being unranked because he's pretty niche and recommending it's usage in OU would be a bit of a stretch, but it's more the fact that the lower ranks aren't being looked at cohesively.
 
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