Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I also think that Mandibuzz should be moved down to B+. Its bulk along with its SR weakness just doesnt cut it. So many things its supposed to wall can break it with SR on the field like CB Talonflame, Breloom or Life Orb Excadrill. Its reliance on Foul Play also invite things like Thundurus to come in more or less for free and force it out. It also has a difficult time stopping common set up sweepers like Pinsir, TTar and with some prior damage even Mega Gyara or Charizard X. Its still a good stop to Aegi and Mega Scizor but there are just so many things that can force it out or outright kill it which isnt a good thing with its SR weakness and the fact that its used as a Defoger. I usually pick Zapdos over Mandibuzz because it simply checks far more things than Mandybuzz.

I don't think Mandibuzz should be moved down. Its bulk is incredible for one, and secondly it can utilize Defog just so it doesn't have to deal with Stealth Rock. You can't just assume that SR are up against a Defogger of all things and say that it's not good enough and should be moved down, that's flawed logic. I'll show you some Foul Play calcs against Thundurus too as you bring it up:

0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 123-145 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (that's the worst case scenario, Timid with 0 Atk IV's)
0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 154-183 (51.3 - 61%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (against mixed/physical variants which are common and effective too)

And just to display Mandi's bulk again:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mandibuzz: 390-460 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

That's against physically defensive Mandibuzz and only OHKO's half the time... and that's a pretty strong hit.

And I don't need to explain why it's not fair to place Mandibuzz against Tyranitar or Thundurus in the first place. Keep Mandibuzz where it is.

 

[Giometry]

Hippo is kinda problematic for me. I realy feel like it deserves its A ranking when i look at how well it works and how much stuff it can check on both sides, from physical defensive over mixed spreads to specialy defensive Hippo can be build to stop almost everything you want. However when looking at other defensive mons like Skarm and Chansey i wouldnt say its better than those 2. Unlike them it can be used outside of stall teams but thats basicly the only thing it has over them.

Because of that imo Hippo should either be moved down to the others or Skarm and Chansey should be moved up.

And while we are at it, I still think that Ferrothorn should be moved down to A-. Most of the things its supposed to check often run coverage moves to beat it and with its 4x weakness a suprise Fireblast can often mean your one pokemon down. Fire and Fighting moves are basicly everywhere right now which isnt realy helpful for Ferro, it also suffers alot from burn hindering its ability to take on bulky waters as he will catch a burn sooner or later. Another issue is 4mss. It needs Leech Seed to gain health and if possible Protect to scout and stall for recovery. You also need Powerwhip if you want to do something against the things you want to check. Even if Gyara cant do much against Ferro, with only Leech Seed to damage it it will probably have enough time to boost up and break through. Then you need Gyroball to damage things like the Latis and in general not be set/taunt bait. And then you also want support moves like T-wave, Stealth Rocks and Spikes. As a defensive SR setter there are far better options available like Heatran or Hippowdon. In general when comparing it to the other defensive mons in A- its hardly even on par with them and certainly not above them. Its recovery is unrealiable and gives the opponent free turns when using Protect and there is only one Pokemon it can safely check, Gyarados. Azumarill can have CB Superpower and almost everything else has access to Fire/Fighting coverage like the Latis, Garchomp, TTar, Dragonite etc. It cant even stop things like Mega Scizor as they will just set up all over it.


I also think that Mandibuzz should be moved down to B+. Its bulk along with its SR weakness just doesnt cut it. So many things its supposed to wall can break it with SR on the field like CB Talonflame, Breloom or Life Orb Excadrill. Its reliance on Foul Play also invite things like Thundurus to come in more or less for free and force it out. It also has a difficult time stopping common set up sweepers like Pinsir, TTar and with some prior damage even Mega Gyara or Charizard X. Its still a good stop to Aegi and Mega Scizor but there are just so many things that can force it out or outright kill it which isnt a good thing with its SR weakness and the fact that its used as a Defoger. I usually pick Zapdos over Mandibuzz because it simply checks far more things than Mandybuzz.

Ferrothorn ==> A+
Ferrothorn is an amazing defensive mon in this meta. Although it does lose to the Zards, the genies, and Chomp Ferro checks so many powerful forces in the meta it's insane (Azumarill, Gyarados, Scizor, Tyranitar). Not only is it an amazing defensive mon it also has an amazing support move pool such as Sneaky Pebbles and Spikes, survivability in Leech Seed/Protect Combo, and is not set up bait thanks to Gyro Ball off of a tiny speed and power whip from a respectable attack stat. Ferro is currently one of the top defensive and support mons in the tier and is deserving of A+.

Bringing this back up as a counterpoint. Ferro doesn't really have 4mss as it can afford to run protect/Leech/Hazard(Or T-Wave)/Attacking Move. SR isn't as important because, lets face it SR is soooooo easy to get up this gen thanks to all the offensive rockers along with the defensive rockers. Ferro also gets spikes which it can reliably set up. Most of the things ferro checks do not have the coverage to get past it and those that do run it purely for Ferro (poss Scizor) and that in and of itself is a testament to its usefulness. Yes you need Gyro to deal damage to things such as the lati's however they can't really do anything back to you and just end up being set up bait for you. For ferro set up bait can work both ways as giving the ferro player free turns to set up hazards/leech seed/Paralyze you can be gamechanging. Also, Only checks Gyarados... WHAT, Ferro checks so much more than that here is a little list for you
S: Deoxys S (Low kick does Jack shit and T-wave ruins Deo S for the game)
A+: MegaDos, MegaTar, Non FB Ttar (read most), Azumarill (Has better things to run such as knock off), Bisharp (Although losing lefties sucks), Excadrill, Greninja, Pinsir (Not sure on this one), Mega Scizor,
A: DNite (Locked into anything but FP or DD Variants with Espeed), Flat Out Murders Kyub, Lando T, Latios
A-: Breloom, Latias, Mamoswine, Manaphy, Sets up on Rotom,
B+: Scizor, Scolipede, Kabutops, Politoed (And Rain in General), Gyarados, Set up on Gliscor, Gardevoir (Gyro Ball KO's), Diggersby (Power Whip),
Yeah, Just Gyarados, Riiiiiiight. A lot of things that like to switch into Ferro also become near useless after a T-wave on the switch (Zards, DeoS, Keldeo, Terrakion, Gengar, Medicham) Also saying heatran is better is a moot point since they wall entirely different things (Like literally opposite ends of the Defensive Spectrum) Ferro also sets up Spikes more than SR. Ferrothorn isone of the main competitors for best defensive mon in OU (With Heatran, MegaVenu, and Hippo) and it deserves to be ranked as such.

Mandibuzz I'm on the fence about... Will post about her later.

 

[Baharoth]

Ferrothorn is good hazard support, and it's really annoying with T-Wave/Leech Seed/Iron Barbs. What you're doing is going down the list of mons and seeing which ones can NEVER touch Ferrothorn, see that it's pretty much just Gyarados, and going "oh I guess it can only check Gyarados" when it CAN check Azumarill, Mega Venusaur, Clefable, T-Tar, D'Nite, Lati@s, etc. No it doesn't beat every single set but it beats them IF they don't have Super Power/HP Fire/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Fire Punch/(I honestly have not see an HP Fire Lati@s in the longest time,) and not every one of these you run in to is going to have these moves. That's why it's a *check.*

I am well aware that it can check these things if they are lacking the coverage move. However thats a somewhat big if in my eyes. If i pick a defensive mon to check certain threats i want it to do that reliably. If these mons have moves to just walk all over my check i have to use another one. That might be fine for stall but on balance you cant waste slots like that. The fact that most of these coverage moves can potentially ohko with some prior damage makes it even worse. You always have to be on your toes until you know their full set. I agree that it can be annoying, Leech Seed and Twave are always annoying, but beeing annoying isnt enough to justify A ranks especially not if there are reliable walls in A- that can counter more mons than Ferro checks.

Regarding Mandibuzz, when using the spread from the analysis to survive Landos Focus Blast your physical bulk gets so low that basicly every physical attacker can 2hko you without much effort, its a pretty stupid spread if you ask me but nvm. Mandi needs all the physical bulk it can get there are far better choices to deal with Lando.

I don't think Mandibuzz should be moved down. Its bulk is incredible for one, and secondly it can utilize Defog just so it doesn't have to deal with Stealth Rock. You can't just assume that SR are up against a Defogger of all things and say that it's not good enough and should be moved down, that's flawed logic. I'll show you some Foul Play calcs against Thundurus too as you bring it up:

Imo its your logic thats flawed here. Mandi is the Defogger on the team so if he wants to do his job he will have to switch into rocks, means he needs to take rock damage + an attack. If he does that he is usually down to 50-60% and has to choose between Roost and Defog as your opponent will go to something that forces you out. If you go for Defog Mandi will leave the field crippled to the point where he is basicly useless as pretty much everything can take him down from half life and your opponent might just set the rocks back up later. If you go for Roost the rocks are still on the field.


Giometry Stating that most of the things it checks often dont run coverage simply isnt true. Latis often have hp fire/fighting for Pursuit trappers, Garchomp often has FB, same for TTar mostly to nail Scizor and Steeltypes in general, CB Azu will often have Superpower as it allows it to get past one of its otherwise best checks and Aegi takes plenty of damage from Waterfall, CB Dragonite usually has Fire Punch as its 4th slot etc. The coverage is there and its far from beeing rare.

Your list is somewhat flawed, Ferro cant even dream of stoping Breloom or Pinsir lol, and Mega Scizor just sets up in its face, same for Bisharp.

 

[jbtc10]

I also think that Mandibuzz should be moved down to B+. Its bulk along with its SR weakness just doesnt cut it. So many things its supposed to wall can break it with SR on the field like CB Talonflame, Breloom or Life Orb Excadrill. Its reliance on Foul Play also invite things like Thundurus to come in more or less for free and force it out. It also has a difficult time stopping common set up sweepers like Pinsir, TTar and with some prior damage even Mega Gyara or Charizard X. Its still a good stop to Aegi and Mega Scizor but there are just so many things that can force it out or outright kill it which isnt a good thing with its SR weakness and the fact that its used as a Defoger. I usually pick Zapdos over Mandibuzz because it simply checks far more things than Mandybuzz.

Thundy coming in for free against Mandi? In his dreams, he either loses half his HP to a Foul Play (much more if he's Physical Defiant) or loses his item and at least a third of his HP to Knock Off:

0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 139-165 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 99-117 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Mandi has more physical bulk than Skarmory so I don't know how that doesn't 'cut it', she checks things like Lando-I and can pivot into his 2 most common moves in Earth Power and Psychic, which is pretty important for stall and his best move against her is Focus Miss, which is unreliable as heck and can't even 2HKO once he gets his LO knocked off. I've been using both Mandi and Skarm on the same team lately and I actually find that Mandibuzz generally puts in more work because it can pressure and cripple things a lot better than Skarm can. Knock Off and STAB Foul Play are just really good and a pretty fast Taunt prevents pretty much all slower stuff like Ferro, Hippo and Skarm from being able to do anything and then after that something has to eat a free Knock Off. I just think that Mandi should be wherever Skarm is, because they both have about equal pros and cons, and Skarm is perfectly fine in A-.

 

[Baharoth]

Mandi has more physical bulk than Skarmory so I don't know how that doesn't 'cut it'

Only on paper. The problem is the typing, Skarm has a shitload of resists that help him switching into stuff while Mandis most notable resists are dark/ghost. Skarm also isnt weak to rocks which realy is the biggest issue with Mandibuzz. Mandibuzz has to worry about getting 2hkoed when switching into rocks against so many things even with full physical def, if you use the analysis spread for checking lando that list will get even longer.

Just look through the A and S ranks and see which offensive mons Mandibuzz can take on factoring in rocks.

Aegi, Charizard X (shaky though), Bisharp most of the time, Garchomp, Scizor, Dragonite (barring CB Outrage), Lando T (only defensive variants without attack investment). If your going for the mixed spread to take on lando you will miss out on Charizard, Garchomp and Dragonite. Thats a rather small list imo.

I dont know how well he works on stall, but i have tried defensive cores using Mandibuzz on 5 or 6 different balanced teams now and i always end up going for something else as Mandibuzz struggles against so many common offensive threats.

 

[Giometry]

I am well aware that it can check these things if they are lacking the coverage move. However thats a somewhat big if in my eyes. If i pick a defensive mon to check certain threats i want it to do that reliably. If these mons have moves to just walk all over my check i have to use another one. That might be fine for stall but on balance you cant waste slots like that. The fact that most of these coverage moves can potentially ohko with some prior damage makes it even worse. You always have to be on your toes until you know their full set. I agree that it can be annoying, Leech Seed and Twave are always annoying, but beeing annoying isnt enough to justify A ranks especially not if there are reliable walls in A- that can counter more mons than Ferro checks.

Regarding Mandibuzz, when using the spread from the analysis to survive Landos Focus Blast your physical bulk gets so low that basicly every physical attacker can 2hko you without much effort, its a pretty stupid spread if you ask me but nvm. Mandi needs all the physical bulk it can get there are far better choices to deal with Lando.





Imo its your logic thats flawed here. Mandi is the Defogger on the team so if he wants to do his job he will have to switch into rocks, means he needs to take rock damage + an attack. If he does that he is usually down to 50-60% and has to choose between Roost and Defog as your opponent will go to something that forces you out. If you go for Defog Mandi will leave the field crippled to the point where he is basicly useless as pretty much everything can take him down from half life and your opponent might just set the rocks back up later. If you go for Roost the rocks are still on the field.


Giometry Stating that most of the things it checks often dont run coverage simply isnt true. Latis often have hp fire/fighting for Pursuit trappers, Garchomp often has FB, same for TTar mostly to nail Scizor and Steeltypes in general, CB Azu will often have Superpower as it allows it to get past one of its otherwise best checks and Aegi takes plenty of damage from Waterfall, CB Dragonite usually has Fire Punch as its 4th slot etc. The coverage is there and its far from beeing rare.

Your list is somewhat flawed, Ferro cant even dream of stoping Breloom or Pinsir lol, and Mega Scizor just sets up in its face, same for Bisharp.

I have never in all my days of competitive Pokemon seen a wall that can do what you have just listed. If a premier offensive mon was hard countered no matter what by a defensive mon that can check so many others then it is no longer a premier offensive threat, the only one that even comes close is chansey and Chansey is set up bait pure and simple. Lati@s no longer run hp fire often and hp fighting is unable to beat you. Most Ttar no longer run FB not do most Azumarill run SP as Knock off has way too much utility. CB Dnite only locks into fire punch on ferro, scizor or skarm and is more often locked to outrage eq or espeed. Bisharp runs pursuit over SD most of the time. I will yield on M-Scizor though as I forgot roost (lol how) and I was never sure on Pinsir however that T-wave makes Pinsir dead weight. Also since when did greninja start running HP fire as U-turn or extrasensory is usually superior

 

[skies]

Shuckle: C+ Rank -----> B- Rank or B Rank​

Shuckle is a Pokemon who many deem as 'a shitty gimmick', but Shuckle is so much more than that. I've been running it on a lot of teams lately because it is just an amazing Pokemon. It has gigantic Defense and Special Defense (which is offset by its HP ):), with access to Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, a unique combination only held by it. Shuckle is not just a death fodder either, it can come in multiple times a match if you keep it alive. Here's a truly impressive calc:

• 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 190-226 (77.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Greninja has a very powerful Hydro Pump, and this just shows Shuckle's bulk, it is not OHKOed by Greninja's Hydro Pump. Shuckle has the bulk to live many hits and not very many things can prevent if from doing its job. Please, for the love of god, do not use Leftovers Shuckle, use Mental Herb Shuckle, which allows it to ensure a layer of hazards is set, Leftovers is not the option for Shuckle! Shuckle is also not deadweight completely after its job, it can lock dangerous threats into unfavorable moves with Encore and it can also trap and stall foes with Infestation. Shuckle is invaluable to Sticky Web teams and is just a very good Pokemon in general!

Shuckle does have very many flaws that prevent it from going higher though. Its HP is so pitiful it makes me weep, it completely offsets Shuckle's whole bulk and is just so sad. Shuckle also doesn't have any offensive presence whatsoever, and it lacks reliable recovery. Its Speed ensures it will be taking a hit before attacking, so this can be a problem. Shuckle has many common weaknesses and it pretty much kills all momentum you might've had. Nevertheless, Shuckle is a very good Pokemon and doesn't belong in the same rank as shit like Togekiss and Klefki, it belongs with either Victini or Sylveon.


Also, Mew should totally be B+, it strikes fear into my heart everytime I see it.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Also since when did greninja start running HP fire as U-turn or extrasensory is usually superior

Water stab/ice beam/extrasensory/HP fire is the set I run

Dark pulse barely hits anything it can't hit already

 

[Baharoth]

I have never in all my days of competitive Pokemon seen a wall that can do what you have just listed. If a premier offensive mon was hard countered no matter what by a defensive mon that can check so many others then it is no longer a premier offensive threat, the only one that even comes close is chansey and Chansey is set up bait pure and simple. Lati@s no longer run hp fire often and hp fighting is unable to beat you. Most Ttar no longer run FB not do most Azumarill run SP as Knock off has way too much utility. CB Dnite only locks into fire punch on ferro, scizor or skarm and is more often locked to outrage eq or espeed. Bisharp runs pursuit over SD most of the time. I will yield on M-Scizor though as I forgot roost (lol how) and I was never sure on Pinsir however that T-wave makes Pinsir dead weight. Also since when did greninja start running HP fire as U-turn or extrasensory is usually superior

You seem to missunderstand. If i pick a mon to stop Pinsir, i want that mon to be able to do that every time, no matter what moveset Pinsir runs. That has nothing to do with hardwalling everything. Its more about doing its job reliably and not just in some cases.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Ferrothorn: 146-174 (41.4 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

"unable to beat you" is an understatement here. Especially considering that Ferro cant do jackshit to Latios unless it runs Gyroball which doesnt have much use outside of that.

Regarding your other statements directly from the latest 1825 usage stats:

Bisharp:
Moves | | Sucker Punch 98.811% | | Knock Off 98.587% | | Iron Head 97.646% | | Swords Dance 63.545% | | Pursuit 27.406% | | Other 14.005%

So much for "runs pursuit over SD most of the time".

Tyranitar:
Moves | | Stone Edge 66.315% | | Crunch 64.338% | | Earthquake 55.369% | | Stealth Rock 46.059% | | Pursuit 38.326% | | Ice Beam 25.405% | | Dragon Dance 24.051% | | Fire Blast 23.714% | | Ice Punch 20.388% | | Superpower 11.799% | | Rock Slide 8.610% | | Other 15.625%

With Fireblast and Superpower thats a decent potion of the TTars out there that can break Ferro.

Azumarill:

Moves | | Aqua Jet 99.418% | | Play Rough 99.180% | | Waterfall 86.929% | | Belly Drum 41.953% | | Knock Off 32.977% | | Superpower 25.710% | | Other 13.834%

Got to admit, knock off is more common but Super Power still makes 25% so its not like it can be neglected. And Knock off is more for AV Sets anyway, there isnt much point to running it on CB sets as it only helps against Aegi who takes tons of damage from CB Waterfall.

Greninja

Moves | | Ice Beam 95.331% | | Hydro Pump 71.444% | | Extrasensory 65.587% | | Dark Pulse 49.271% | | U-turn 19.501% | | Surf 16.082% | | Hidden Power Grass 15.706% | | Hidden Power Fire 14.420% | | Haze 13.894% | | Scald 8.665% | | Grass Knot 6.937% | | Shadow Sneak 5.945% | | Other 17.217%

Not too common and for good reason but it fucks you up all the more when you run into it as it outright ohkos so its an amazing lure.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Only on paper. The problem is the typing, Skarm has a shitload of resists that help him switching into stuff while Mandis most notable resists are dark/ghost.

Yeah but nearly everything can hit Skarm neutrally/SE anyway, and unlike Mandibuzz its only means of retaliation is pretty much Whirlwind. Don't get me wrong, Steel/Flying is really good and makes it easier to switch in to stuff, but in practice those dozen resists or whatever it is are not that hard for the opponent to handle, especially since it does not have good special bulk.

Regarding Mandibuzz, when using the spread from the analysis to survive Landos Focus Blast your physical bulk gets so low that basicly every physical attacker can 2hko you without much effort, its a pretty stupid spread if you ask me but nvm. Mandi needs all the physical bulk it can get there are far better choices to deal with Lando.

252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 168-198 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 152-180 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 93.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 185-218 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-200 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

??? All things considered that's not a huge difference. 110/105 bulk is great, it's not that big of an issue to not fully invest in it.

Your entire argument here is that Mandibuzz isn't so good because it can't switch into powerful attacks against an opponent with perfect prediction when rocks are up. Yes this sucks, but a few things:
-Mandibuzz is only threatened by a handful of hazard setters. Excadrill, lead Chomp, Ferrothorn, Hippo, etc; you can switch in and do stuff. Heatran (Wisp,) Terrakion, Deo's (Taunt,) T-tar (you can't switch in to Stone Edge) are all the common ones you can lose against.
-If you're using Mandibuzz, you don't need to use it as a defogger. The set I run is Foul/Knock Off/Roost/Taunt, cause it's so good. So if you have some other thing for hazard control, it's not so hard to keep Mandi healthy and keep rocks off the field.
-When there aren't rocks up, the stuff Mandibuzz can switch in to and win against is actually really impressive: like, Landorus. It can switch into Focus Blast, avoid the 2HKO and win by just Roosting because lol Focus Blast. It beats all Landorus without CM, while Chansey loses to both CM and Knock Off sets. That's really good. And also pretty much every physical attacker that's not Rock or Fairy type, it can switch into without much issue.

 

[Scar Tissue]

The only thing that would be potentially keeping Hippo in A is being a sand inducer that has reliable recovery unlike Tyranitar, but the overwhelming majority of sand teams in the present moment prefer Tyranitar for that role for his much greater offensive ability and versatility so until that ever changes, going down to A- is fine because he's competing with other walls who he definitely isn't better than (Skarm, Mandi, etc).

Heatran could be in a similar boat to be honest and I raised that point a few pages back but it didn't get any discussion, so let me ask: what do people think about Heatran and does he still deserve A or would a drop to A- be more appropriate?

Simply cannot agree with Heatran moving down. Its typing is amazing, it's arguably the best rocks setter not named Deoxys, it can phaze and wear down key threats reliably with Roar, Toxic, Taunt, will-o-wisp, etc. Even uninvested, it maintains a strong offensive presence, and then of course you can run a viable offensive set with Air Balloon/Assault Vest/Scarf. It's the only great fire type not named Charizard. Whenever I build a team, I consider using Heatran and whether I will struggle with opposing Heatran; it's just that good.

 

[Buzz Lux]

Hippo absolutely deserves A Rank.
I've been using Hippo lately, and I have to stress how good its walling capabilities are, it may have a subpar typing in Ground but this allows it to actually fight back, with a meaty 110 attack and STAB Earthquake, it's certainly a Pokemon that can dish out damage and support the team with Stealth Rock, its walling services on both spectrums if invested, and a few good resists too.
It can live a hit from ZardX too, an incredible feat for most mixed walls in the game. And that's just ridiculous, showing how good its bulk is. It also has reliable recovery, which sets it apart from other Bulky Grounds in the tier.
It also counteracts any weather shenanigans from ZardY and Politoed, but don't switch in on the them recklessly tho.
Hippo deserves more love, give it a try and you've got a very solid Pokemon in your team.

 

[Buzz Lux]

Simply cannot agree with Heatran moving down. Its typing is amazing, it's arguably the best rocks setter not named Deoxys, it can phaze and wear down key threats reliably with Roar, Toxic, Taunt, will-o-wisp, etc. Even uninvested, it maintains a strong offensive presence, and then of course you can run a viable offensive set with Air Balloon/Assault Vest/Scarf. It's the only great fire type not named Charizard. Whenever I build a team, I consider using Heatran and whether I will struggle with opposing Heatran; it's just that good.

I totally agree with this, Heatan packs quite a punch even if its Special Attack isn't invested, it's also arguably once of the best and most consistent Rocks setter too. The only thing I hate about Heatran is an extremely exploitable weakness in Ground, but it's still a prominent threat to watch out for.
Heatran stays in A.

 

[Tressed]

Heatran could be in a similar boat to be honest and I raised that point a few pages back but it didn't get any discussion, so let me ask: what do people think about Heatran and does he still deserve A or would a drop to A- be more appropriate?

A Rank is where this guy belongs, imo. Typing is great for crapping on Talonflame, Latis, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and w/e, it's got the stats to go offensive, Specs, Scarf, or fully defensive, a movepool that only really lacks recovery (which is a major bummer, this thing would be amazing if it got Recover). Its easily the best Fire type in OU, barring Charizard X/Y, because it's pretty self sustainable since it isn't weak to rocks and has ridiculous defensive typing.

 

[Giometry]

You seem to missunderstand. If i pick a mon to stop Pinsir, i want that mon to be able to do that every time, no matter what moveset Pinsir runs. That has nothing to do with hardwalling everything. Its more about doing its job reliably and not just in some cases.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Ferrothorn: 146-174 (41.4 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

"unable to beat you" is an understatement here. Especially considering that Ferro cant do jackshit to Latios unless it runs Gyroball which doesnt have much use outside of that.

Regarding your other statements directly from the latest 1825 usage stats:

Bisharp:
Moves | | Sucker Punch 98.811% | | Knock Off 98.587% | | Iron Head 97.646% | | Swords Dance 63.545% | | Pursuit 27.406% | | Other 14.005%

So much for "runs pursuit over SD most of the time".

Tyranitar:
Moves | | Stone Edge 66.315% | | Crunch 64.338% | | Earthquake 55.369% | | Stealth Rock 46.059% | | Pursuit 38.326% | | Ice Beam 25.405% | | Dragon Dance 24.051% | | Fire Blast 23.714% | | Ice Punch 20.388% | | Superpower 11.799% | | Rock Slide 8.610% | | Other 15.625%

With Fireblast and Superpower thats a decent potion of the TTars out there that can break Ferro.

Azumarill:

Moves | | Aqua Jet 99.418% | | Play Rough 99.180% | | Waterfall 86.929% | | Belly Drum 41.953% | | Knock Off 32.977% | | Superpower 25.710% | | Other 13.834%

Got to admit, knock off is more common but Super Power still makes 25% so its not like it can be neglected. And Knock off is more for AV Sets anyway, there isnt much point to running it on CB sets as it only helps against Aegi who takes tons of damage from CB Waterfall.

Greninja

Moves | | Ice Beam 95.331% | | Hydro Pump 71.444% | | Extrasensory 65.587% | | Dark Pulse 49.271% | | U-turn 19.501% | | Surf 16.082% | | Hidden Power Grass 15.706% | | Hidden Power Fire 14.420% | | Haze 13.894% | | Scald 8.665% | | Grass Knot 6.937% | | Shadow Sneak 5.945% | | Other 17.217%

Not too common and for good reason but it fucks you up all the more when you run into it as it outright ohkos so its an amazing lure.

Huh you got me on bisharp... well then I yield on Bisharp but on the lati's you have to remember that leech seed +Protect + Lefties is 40% HP Back between the hits meaning you will get off a Gyro Ball or T-Wave without too much worry.

Some Reasons for Gyro Ball:

4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 132-156 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-S: 169-199 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 186-219 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 308-366 (78.5 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 169-199 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (For a predicted Switch ONLY)
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (97 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Predicted Switch In)
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 160-190 (44.6 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO (Predicted Switch)
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 160-190 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (If multiscale is Broken)
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 232-274 (88.5 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Switch In)
4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Dat Predicted Switch Tho)

Power Whip also gives viable options OHKOing Greninja, almost getting Keldeo, and almost getting Terrakion on the switch

This is an almost Uninvested (in attack) WALL Punishing Switches big time.

A list of Mons T-Wave Ruins: Zards, Deo-S, Pinsir, Keldeo, Lati@s, Terrakion, Gyarados, Greninja, Talonflame (Kinda), T-Tar (Scarf or Mega), Dragonite, Gengar.

I do get your point though on the reliability but lets face it there isn't a single Poke that hard walls all Azumarill (Ferro comes closest alongside Bulky Zard X)

 

[ash1250]

I think it was overall a smart opinion that they decided to put (Mega) Lucario in Ubers. I wonder what set Smogon will set up for the guy with all the new competition Lucario will have to face. Only time will tell...

 

[JebusChrist]

I do get your point though on the reliability but lets face it there isn't a single Poke that hard walls all Azumarill (Ferro comes closest alongside Bulky Zard X)

Actually Mega Venusaur counters pretty much every Azumarill set, as well as hitting it super effectively with both STABs

 

[ash1250]

It also is immune to possibly the best current single attacking type, and pulls a decent AV set like has been said.

You mean Ghost type? The same could be said about any other normal type and Snorlax's STAB Body Slam(/SD) is completely useless also. Cant argue on the AV thoe.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

You mean Ghost type? The same could be said about any other normal type and Snorlax's STAB Body Slam(/SD) is completely useless also. Cant argue on the AV thoe.

You're right but if people are gonna say it sucks because its weak to the second most popular attacking type in Fighting, you can't just disregard the fact that it is immune to Ghost. Body Slam may be useless on them, but you can carry Crunch/Pursuit on him

 

[Giometry]

Actually Mega Venusaur counters pretty much every Azumarill set, as well as hitting it super effectively with both STABs

I always forget Venu :(

 

[ash1250]

You're right but if people are gonna say it sucks because its weak to the second most popular attacking type in fighting, you can't just disregard the fact that it is immune to Ghost. Body Slam may be useless on them, but you can carry Crunch/Pursuit on him

"Snorlax is an outdated relic of the past and is not something you have to prepare for, but something you will just passively beat because its tactics are so primitive that they won't have much of an effect on most modern strategies." -Serebii.net
You got me, other than a switch out, there is not much a ghost type can do. But Snorlax is too damn slow, and you could easily switch in with Lucario. Teams must be structured too deal with as many threats as possible. And Normal types WILL be countered somehow. I simply think that Snorlax does not have the viability to be in the OU metagame.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

Idk I look at the other pokes in D and it just feels like it belongs. Empoleon can fit that exact Serebii quote you just posted, and although Empoleon got Defog, Snorlax got AV. There are better users of both but thats why they're in D. Cloyster also fits that description with its early popularity in Gen V, as do Jirachi and Celebi in C-, and definitely Infernape who's all the way up in C.

 

[Zibbity]

I think it was overall a smart opinion that they decided to put (Mega) Lucario in Ubers. I wonder what set Smogon will set up for the guy with all the new competition Lucario will have to face. Only time will tell...

The same movesets as before, mainly the Swords Dance set. In case you haven't realized, Lucario has now been moved down to UU.

 

[Flamer]

Who the fuck even suggested Ferro should move down? That thing is so fucking good on so many team archetypes its not funny. Typing that walls some of the most threatening mons like BD Azu, Mega-Gyara and Mega-T-Tar to name a few as well as amazing mixed bulk to take care of the rest of the meta. Even mons that carry super effective coverage have a difficult time beating Ferro, who can even take Keldeo's Secret Sword and Latios' HP Fire/Fighting. Not only that, an amazing support movepool that can be tailored to whatever you need, as well as a usable Attack stat that actually beats stuff it walls (which there's a lot). The Steel type may have taken a hit, but Ferrothorn certainly hasn't.

 

[Rhaegar]

I really think Chansey should be at least A rank. You'll observe that the most consistently successful teams on ladder all run it. By consistently successful I mean staying in the top 10 for weeks on end without tilting in a couple of days which is something most HO teams fail to do yet S, A, and A+ are dominated by offense while poor Chansey which is holding Stall and many Balance teams together is down at A- when these teams are actually doing better.