I'll do it.
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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
Why would you use braviary over bisharp or thundurus as a defiant user or over m-pinsir or talon as a sweeper?
Talonflame isn't a sweeper but a revenge killer but this. This thing has too much competition with Staraptor and even then Staraptor is only used in bird spam so I'd rather not have Braviary just as another weakpoint. Unless you can give me reasons why I'm wrong, that is.
Well stop wondering and give us some evidence of it being effective. If you're going to bring up a Pokemon, especially one as rare as Braviary, you're going to have to bring up WHY you feel it's viable as well as evidence (such as replays, ladder peaks, tournament wins) showing us how it works and why it works. Not to come off as rude, but no one really wants to here about what you were "wondering" @_@
wow, and I always said that people in OU are nice and polite, defending you in the other tiers. I won't write it then, jeez, clearly i was wrong. remembering why I dislike playing it now
I wasn't trying to be mean, i promise! D: It's just that why bring up a Pokemon that's been seen by almost no one in OU and then give almost no evidence of it being viable? I mean, what were you expecting to get out of that post? An "Oh, yeah, sure! Write up a Pokemon basically no one has heard of, especially after we've raised the standards of what should and what shouldn't get an analysis!"? I mean, you do have to back up your claims, you realize.
We're not trying to NOT be polite, but the point of this thread isn't speculation. It's to reserve analyses on Pokemon that have been proven in some way, shape, or form to be viable in OU.
In case you need to see it laid out, these are Braviary's problems:
- Relies on Defiant to be better than Staraptor
- Walled by the likes of Aegislash, Skarmory, will lose a ton of health trying to take out Ferrothorn, etc.
- Easily revenge killed by anything with >80 Speed (in other words, most Pokemon in OU).
- Lack of priority to compensate for low speed hurts
- Pretty weak without a Defiant boost.
I wasn't trying to be mean, i promise! D: It's just that why bring up a Pokemon that's been seen by almost no one in OU and then give almost no evidence of it being viable? I mean, what were you expecting to get out of that post? An "Oh, yeah, sure! Write up a Pokemon basically no one has heard of, especially after we've raised the standards of what should and what shouldn't get an analysis!"? I mean, you do have to back up your claims, you realize.
This has been brought up once or twice before but from what I can see it's not been addressed properly. Alomomola really should get an OU analysis. I have used it to a lot of success in multiple stall teams and I know many other stall players can say the same - it's a lot like Amoonguss in that its usefulness far exceeds its usage.
Alomomola saves stall teams from getting destroyed by Choice Band users. Its 165/80 bulk is on par with Hippowdon's, in fact it's even bulkier when accounting for the extra Leftovers recovery gained with Protect. It doesn't come with the nasty Ice and Water weaknesses. The Mirror Coat set isn't its best because it sacrifices too much physical bulk and loses its ability to handle Choice Banders, but physically defensive sets are very difficult for physical attackers to overcome without boosting. That's why it pairs so amazingly with Quagsire - Alomomola can wall almost any physical attacker without set-up while Quag walls anything that does set up.
Generic stall cores like Quagsire/Skarmory/Chansey/Amoonguss can be destroyed by basic Choice Banders like Talonflame, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Terrakion, etc. This set solves so many of these problems:
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SDef
Bold / Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald / Knock Off
- Toxic
Things this Alomomola walls unboosted (Choice Band, etc.): Talonflame, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr, Specs Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Charizard X (also generally safe to scout if it's Charizard-Y), Dragonite, Terrakion, Exca, Greninja, Kyurem-B (without LO, needs Knock Off for breaking Sub), Scizor, Landorus-T, non-Freeze Dry Mamo, Gyarados, Bisharp, offensive Scolipede, Infernape, Diggersby (CB Return can 2HKO so needs to be predicted), Crawdaunt, non-Band Staraptor, Weavile, Salamence, Psyshock Alakazam. Also beats Deoxys-S 1v1.
Replays. Note how it can single handedly wall 2/3rds+ of an opponent's team: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-127790200
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-126313465
To clear up a common misconception, Slowbro doesn't outclass it at all. Its vulnerability to U-turn means it can't be used to counter attempts to wear your stall team down with VoltTurn (Alo can regenerate off the damage from CB Scizor's U-turn). It gets completely put out of the game by anything with Pursuit - Aegislash, Bisharp, Tyranitar, Scizor, etc. It can't wall many things Alo walls - Greninja, CB Dragonite, Talonflame, etc. It gets destroyed by any powerful attacker with Knock Off.
It's also not an inferior Wish passer to Chansey/Blissey. Chansey and Blissey can't pass to some of the Pokémon that appreciate healing most, like Heatran, due to common weaknesses. Alomomola pairs brilliantly with Heatran and it pairs well with Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn and other things that appreciate Wish support, all of this without even mentioning its ability to heal itself at the same time through Regenerator.
Anyway I'll write it up if you guys do think it should get an analysis, I really don't see why not. Would need to know soon though as I'm going away for a while in the near future
Alomomola saves stall teams from getting destroyed by Choice Band users. Its 165/80 bulk is on par with Hippowdon's, in fact it's even bulkier when accounting for the extra Leftovers recovery gained with Protect. It doesn't come with the nasty Ice and Water weaknesses. The Mirror Coat set isn't its best because it sacrifices too much physical bulk and loses its ability to handle Choice Banders, but physically defensive sets are very difficult for physical attackers to overcome without boosting. That's why it pairs so amazingly with Quagsire - Alomomola can wall almost any physical attacker without set-up while Quag walls anything that does set up.
Generic stall cores like Quagsire/Skarmory/Chansey/Amoonguss can be destroyed by basic Choice Banders like Talonflame, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Terrakion, etc. This set solves so many of these problems:
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SDef
Bold / Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald / Knock Off
- Toxic
Things this Alomomola walls unboosted (Choice Band, etc.): Talonflame, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr, Specs Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Charizard X (also generally safe to scout if it's Charizard-Y), Dragonite, Terrakion, Exca, Greninja, Kyurem-B (without LO, needs Knock Off for breaking Sub), Scizor, Landorus-T, non-Freeze Dry Mamo, Gyarados, Bisharp, offensive Scolipede, Infernape, Diggersby (CB Return can 2HKO so needs to be predicted), Crawdaunt, non-Band Staraptor, Weavile, Salamence, Psyshock Alakazam. Also beats Deoxys-S 1v1.
Replays. Note how it can single handedly wall 2/3rds+ of an opponent's team: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-127790200
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-126313465
To clear up a common misconception, Slowbro doesn't outclass it at all. Its vulnerability to U-turn means it can't be used to counter attempts to wear your stall team down with VoltTurn (Alo can regenerate off the damage from CB Scizor's U-turn). It gets completely put out of the game by anything with Pursuit - Aegislash, Bisharp, Tyranitar, Scizor, etc. It can't wall many things Alo walls - Greninja, CB Dragonite, Talonflame, etc. It gets destroyed by any powerful attacker with Knock Off.
It's also not an inferior Wish passer to Chansey/Blissey. Chansey and Blissey can't pass to some of the Pokémon that appreciate healing most, like Heatran, due to common weaknesses. Alomomola pairs brilliantly with Heatran and it pairs well with Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn and other things that appreciate Wish support, all of this without even mentioning its ability to heal itself at the same time through Regenerator.
Poison Heal is used to represent extra turn of Leftovers recovery provided by using Protect
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 243-286 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 244-288 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 247-292 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 229-270 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 238-282 (45.5 - 54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 195-231 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 24.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
+6 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 453-533 (86.7 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 223-264 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 409-484 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 178-210 (34 - 40.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 237-281 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 243-286 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 244-288 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 247-292 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 229-270 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 238-282 (45.5 - 54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 195-231 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 24.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
+6 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 453-533 (86.7 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 223-264 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 204 HP / 48 SpD Alomomola: 409-484 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 178-210 (34 - 40.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 237-281 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Anyway I'll write it up if you guys do think it should get an analysis, I really don't see why not. Would need to know soon though as I'm going away for a while in the near future
It was more of a "I tried it, I liked it, it wasn't bad, what do you guys think of it, is it worth trying out more and writing a skeleton to see if it merits more exploration?". I figured this is the place to write stuff like that, I'm sorry...
and I didn't need to see it laid out like that, I already know all these things, the question was "what do you think of it", not "please tell me everything about it as I don't have a clue about OU in the slightest" :(
Um, just gonna post this here I guess. Shouldn't Gorebyss get a new analysis? I remember the old one being given up, but apparently the person who was supposed to take it over never got round to it. (Not reserving it myself though, I lack the experience to be writing analyses from scratch.)
If he's right, then I'll take Gorebyss.
I think CyclicCompound was supposed to do it. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't rejected, so it's probably safe to go ahead with it.
CyclicCompound can you confirm/deny? pending that you can do it Alphose_Elric, just wait for his response.
hippo needs an update to accommodate for the fact that it will be merged into one set with a mixed spread as the main (prolly 252 hp / 116 def / 140 sdef impish, that's defense jump point + what you need to handle aegi at minimum). it's bh-only or if i can trust you to do a good job.
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two things:
any feedback on changing gliscor speed investment? it's currently running 232 for max megachomp which is not rly relevant. theres rly no reason to outrun adamant exca considering most are scarf or sand rush, and if they arent scarf a lot will have balloon so you cant touch them anyways. even if its balloon is broken or w/e, bar sd-boosted iron heads it can't really do much of anything to gliscor. i'm thinking that 266 is a good speed number to hit (160 evs) and then it can get some more defense.
going off what dice said, any thoughts on a venu spread of 248 hp / 164 spatk / 96 spd modest? this is what he described, enough speed for jolly azu, hp, and then rest spatk.
hippo needs an update to accommodate for the fact that it will be merged into one set with a mixed spread as the main (prolly 252 hp / 116 def / 140 sdef impish, that's defense jump point + what you need to handle aegi at minimum). it's bh-only or if i can trust you to do a good job.
---
two things:
any feedback on changing gliscor speed investment? it's currently running 232 for max megachomp which is not rly relevant. theres rly no reason to outrun adamant exca considering most are scarf or sand rush, and if they arent scarf a lot will have balloon so you cant touch them anyways. even if its balloon is broken or w/e, bar sd-boosted iron heads it can't really do much of anything to gliscor. i'm thinking that 266 is a good speed number to hit (160 evs) and then it can get some more defense.
going off what dice said, any thoughts on a venu spread of 248 hp / 164 spatk / 96 spd modest? this is what he described, enough speed for jolly azu, hp, and then rest spatk.
I vaguely remember signing up to do it, but I also remember someone else deciding to do it, but I might be getting that mixed up with Seismitoad.
At any rate Alphose_Elric can do it.
At any rate Alphose_Elric can do it.
I can't seem to find an analysis for Hydreigon. Has nobody made an argument for it yet? If not, I can write one up; I'd rather just not spend the time if it's just a typo =P
It got rejected.
no it's good, that can be fixed through small edits
I don't like the extra speed on MVenu for reasons I outlined in a post like 1 page back
and if anything you really don't want to take out of special attack because you need every single point you can get for stuff such as Keldeo/Terrakion/Landorus/Garchomp/Excadrill/Latios to guarantee a 2HKO or at least get it a lot more securely without hazards. Honestly, like I described in that post I'm referring to, I'd just max bulk/special attack and subtract some EVs to reach 200 speed while mentioning the faster spread for Jolly Azumarill as an alternative (because, let's face it, between this being for one set of one Pokemon and Assault Vest gaining A LOT of popularity lately, the extra special attack/bulk is way more important in 99% of all cases). Apparently having 359 HP reduces sand damage and such so I think 236 HP 252 SAtk 20 Speed with the HP Fire EV Spread of 30/0/31/30/31/30 sounds optimal?
and if anything you really don't want to take out of special attack because you need every single point you can get for stuff such as Keldeo/Terrakion/Landorus/Garchomp/Excadrill/Latios to guarantee a 2HKO or at least get it a lot more securely without hazards. Honestly, like I described in that post I'm referring to, I'd just max bulk/special attack and subtract some EVs to reach 200 speed while mentioning the faster spread for Jolly Azumarill as an alternative (because, let's face it, between this being for one set of one Pokemon and Assault Vest gaining A LOT of popularity lately, the extra special attack/bulk is way more important in 99% of all cases). Apparently having 359 HP reduces sand damage and such so I think 236 HP 252 SAtk 20 Speed with the HP Fire EV Spread of 30/0/31/30/31/30 sounds optimal?
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