Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Freeroamer]

Tbh it's not just the flinch chance, it's the ability to hit a would-be good switchin with seed flare and get the -2 special defense drop, turning the would-be good switchin into a liability, example:

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Zapdos: 94-112 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Hidden Power Ice vs. -2 252 HP / 232+ SpD Zapdos: 252-299 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So if zapdos has any prior damage whatsoever, or if rocks are up, you can kiss your zapdos goodbye

 

[Croven]

Ok, so, there was a controversial replay floating around in the Monotype chatroom today. I decided to post it and give you all my thoughts here on the forum.

So in this, an Ice user literally 6-0'es an, in my opinion, well-built Steel team from what I could see. The only problem may be lack of special attackers, but the Steel user does have Genesect and Heatran, IMO the only special attackers Steel should run. Maybe Luke, but that's a bit eh.

A small overview of what happened: Ice user got a good lead matchup, KyuW v Ferro. Ferro is obviously forced to switch. Heatran comes in, the best check Steel has to Kyurem-W. Balloon is popped, and Heatran is then popped with Earth Power. That was important. This shows that Steel's best answer to Kyurem-W can easily be popped by a coverage move, and if KyuW isn't Choiced....WELP.

Then it's forced out, Rotom sets up Reflect on ScarfDrill, and switches to Avalugg. Ice user doubles back to Kyurem, sealing the game. Literally the Steel user could only watch as Reflect gave Kyurem enough survivability to live all of their attacks and OHKO each of them with Fusion Flare. GG

Honestly, that was just a simple double switch, something that can be seen in almost every decently high battle. At least, that's what I've seen and when I've played, double switches happen about once a battle from each user. What happens here is, that single double switch ends the match from Turn 6, when the Steel user had 5 Pokemon left. Some might be arguing that this happens sometimes; a bad team causes a loss, or a combination of a couple Pokemon eliminating each others checks can sweep earlier, depending on matchup.

However, I see two differences here:

1. First, the Steel team wasn't even awful. It was a bit generic, in my opinion, but that itself is a statement that it wasn't poorly built team. Generic teams become generic because they use the best mons of the type. They are looked down upon not because they are really bad, but because building them requires little creativity and people get salty when they lose to a team that looks exactly like 356567 other teams they played before. Anyway, back on topic. The team wasn't that poorly built, it could reliably take on most types in this meta, and looked decent. Yet, it was torn apart by a team that had a disadvantage to it, all thanks to literally one Pokemon. This is, in my opinion, the sign of a broken mon that needs to go.

2. Second, one thing I thought interesting, was that the 'check' to Kyurem-W was KO'ed by Kyurem-W itself, simply running a normal coverage move. Some might say that then this is a bad check, which may be true, but it really is the best Steel has to offer against this thing, besides revenge killing (which failed too, thanks to a Reflect). I challenge you to find a better check than Heatran, and if you do, I will reconsider (by check I mean check, not revenge killer). When your best check is completely bopped by the mon it's trying to check, something is wrong. This is another sign, in my opinion, of a Pokemon being severely broken.

Side note I want to mention: The unpredictability of Kyurem-W is also a huge factor in its strength and 'brokenness'. It could be running Scarf, so that Revenge Killing it is useless outside like, Scarf Gene (which still needs to run a Steel STAB to do much) or scarf Thundurus-T (which still can't OHKO unless Rocks damage has been taken). You could also run a Sub Set, like scpinion, for the extra bulk and ability to ward off status and weak attacks. This is also something to consider when discussing, as all of these sets, and more, are completely viable, and while most accomplish a separate goal from the others, they each are doing very well, too well in my opinion, at achieving that goal.

Keep in mind that one battle doesn't guarantee anything, I just wanted to show that Ice w/ Kyurem-W can completely 6-0 a Steel team used by a decent user; the ladder match took place at ~1500, in my opinion a good spot to be at if you ladder a bit. So take what you want from this, I'll try to get my own replays, but school just started and I'm a lazy (BAN ME PLEASE) :[

That's all for now people, see ya!

 

[TM93]

Honestly, the way I see it after all this evidence is this: keep Kyurem-W and make Ice a potentially broken type compared to the others if you run the right set with the right support (it singlehandedly swept a pretty well-built Steel Mono, a Type that for most intents and purposes Ice should be at a disadvantage to), or ban it again and bring Ice back to where it was before: pretty much garbage. And Kyurem-W's unpredictability is indeed a factor here: is it a Scarf/Specs, a Life Orb, Lefties? Each set has very different checks and counters, and not every Mono has access to, nor can it justify, carrying a check or counter for each set.

The real kicker for that fight was probably Turboblaze, if Skarmory's Sturdy had been active, it might have been able to whittle Kyurem-W down enough to net a KO with the next Pokemon, with a Brave Bird, or to Defog and remove the Reflect that was up. A Mold Breaker Ability coupled with devastating offensive stats and fair-to-amazing bulk, makes Kyurem-W nearly unwallable. Sturdy can't activate, Levitate doesn't save you from Earth Power, Flash Fire doesn't stop Fusion Flare from hurting you on a Swap-in. And unless it's Choiced, it's got enough Coverage moves to hit just about everything neutrally (in fact it's hitting more things Super Effectively over Neutrally, almost twice as many actually if you run Ground+Fire+Dragon+Ice). Kyurem-W also sports Speed that, while subpar compared to OU's Base 100 cutoff, is enough that it can still outspeed a fair bit of the Pokedex as a whole. But that's not all, Kyurem-W also sports reliable recovery in the form of Roost, so if you simply forgo Dragon STAB (which, while neat, isn't always necessary, as a matter of fact it only hits 5 more Pokemon Super Effectively over Neutrally due to it, and I know at least one of them is Kingdra, which anything that carries Freeze Dry can actually handle well), it makes Kyurem-W's survivability go way up, that 25% from Rocks isn't quite as scary anymore.

I really don't think I'm the one to decide, but in the end, really, it feels like the argument is either to bring Ice up to a potentially broken status, or to bring it back down to where it was before.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Honestly, the way I see it after all this evidence is this: keep Kyurem-W and make Ice a potentially broken type compared to the others if you run the right set with the right support (it singlehandedly swept a pretty well-built Steel Mono, a Type that for most intents and purposes Ice should be at a disadvantage to), or ban it again and bring Ice back to where it was before: pretty much garbage. And Kyurem-W's unpredictability is indeed a factor here: is it a Scarf/Specs, a Life Orb, Lefties? Each set has very different checks and counters, and not every Mono has access to, nor can it justify, carrying a check or counter for each set.

The real kicker for that fight was probably Turboblaze, if Skarmory's Sturdy had been active, it might have been able to whittle Kyurem-W down enough to net a KO with the next Pokemon, with a Brave Bird, or to Defog and remove the Reflect that was up. A Mold Breaker Ability coupled with devastating offensive stats and fair-to-amazing bulk, makes Kyurem-W nearly unwallable. Sturdy can't activate, Levitate doesn't save you from Earth Power, Flash Fire doesn't stop Fusion Flare from hurting you on a Swap-in. And unless it's Choiced, it's got enough Coverage moves to hit just about everything neutrally (in fact it's hitting more things Super Effectively over Neutrally, almost twice as many actually if you run Ground+Fire+Dragon+Ice). Kyurem-W also sports Speed that, while subpar compared to OU's Base 100 cutoff, is enough that it can still outspeed a fair bit of the Pokedex as a whole. But that's not all, Kyurem-W also sports reliable recovery in the form of Roost, so if you simply forgo Dragon STAB (which, while neat, isn't always necessary, as a matter of fact it only hits 5 more Pokemon Super Effectively over Neutrally due to it, and I know at least one of them is Kingdra, which anything that carries Freeze Dry can actually handle well), it makes Kyurem-W's survivability go way up, that 25% from Rocks isn't quite as scary anymore.

I really don't think I'm the one to decide, but in the end, really, it feels like the argument is either to bring Ice up to a potentially broken status, or to bring it back down to where it was before.

Well from what I'm seeing Kyurem-White by itself could be considered "Broken". No where do I see Post elaborating on how it interacts with its Teammates, how it helps Ice solve its many problems, or a valid reason of how it does or does not do what it intended to do in the first place: improve Ice as a Type so it can be favorable enough to play, thus increasing the Tier's diversity.

All I'm seeing Is examples of how the Pokemon itself is Broken. But I mean one could argue that Crocune is also be Broken but hey whatevs

 

[TM93]

Well from what I'm seeing Kyurem-White by itself could be considered "Broken". No where do I see Post elaborating on how it interacts with its Teammates, how it helps Ice solve its many problems, or a valid reason of how it does or does not do what it intended to do in the first place: improve Ice as a Type so it can be favorable enough to play, thus increasing the Tier's diversity.

All I'm seeing Is examples of how the Pokemon itself is Broken. But I mean one could argue that Crocune is also be Broken but hey whatevs

It helps Ice deal with Scizor somewhat well for one thing, Fusion Flare is a 1HKO and Scizor has very little chance to outspeed and get a Superpower off. Bullet Punch is wonderful but it's just about never a 1HKO, unless Scizor put up a Swords Dance before Kyurem swapped in, which puts all Choice sets out of the question, and the SD set still requires Technician to do so. It is however, more of a Check than a counter, obviously it can't take two Bullet Punches.

Teammate Interaction really seems to just be "X sets up Screens/Hazards/Removes Hazards to help Kyurem-W". Not saying it's a lot, but it's a little.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

It helps Ice deal with Scizor somewhat well for one thing, Fusion Flare is a 1HKO and Scizor has very little chance to outspeed and get a Superpower off. Bullet Punch is wonderful but it's just about never a 1HKO, unless Scizor put up a Swords Dance before Kyurem swapped in, which puts all Choice sets out of the question, and the SD set still requires Technician to do so. It is however, more of a Check than a counter, obviously it can't take two Bullet Punches.

Teammate Interaction really seems to just be "X sets up Screens/Hazards/Removes Hazards to help Kyurem-W". Not saying it's a lot, but it's a little.

Rotom is honestly a better Scizor Check than Kyurem (assuming it's Scarved) is because in reality it's gonna be Switching in and out, talking SR's damag, since Ice relies on it so much. You'd rather be using something that can Volt Switch. Even if it's not Scarved Rotom still has WoW. So as far as. Kyurem helping against Scizor I'd say yeah sure but like other Pokes such as Cloyster can take a BP too so like thY brings me back to ground zero as. to whether it reallr helps Ice with its problems, or if it carries the Type by itself. If it's The latter, which many seem to be arguing, than that isn't healthy RO the Meta either since its basically Mono Kyuber and Friends instead of Mono Ice. And if you lose your ace, Ice becomes sucky yet again...

 

[QueenOfHax]

Thanks for posting that replay and commenting it Crovern!

I agree that mono-ice has devolved into "Kyu-W and friends" since the whole point of the team is supporting it so it can clean house whenever it gets a chance to switch in.
This is painfully apparent in ice vs ice matches since they're all about who can keep SR off the field and who can click Fusion Flare first.

In my opinion, Kyu-W isn't increasing the diversity on the ladder, but it's having the opposite effect: by unleashing this nuke into the metagame people are now wary of running the monotypes it is strong against and once you hit the 1500's you start seeing fighting, fairy, steel, bug and very little else.
And as you could see above, not even steel is safe from Kyurem-W.

 

[DoW]

Honestly, the way I see it after all this evidence is this: keep Kyurem-W and make Ice a potentially broken type compared to the others if you run the right set with the right support (it singlehandedly swept a pretty well-built Steel Mono, a Type that for most intents and purposes Ice should be at a disadvantage to), or ban it again and bring Ice back to where it was before: pretty much garbage. And Kyurem-W's unpredictability is indeed a factor here: is it a Scarf/Specs, a Life Orb, Lefties? Each set has very different checks and counters, and not every Mono has access to, nor can it justify, carrying a check or counter for each set.

The real kicker for that fight was probably Turboblaze, if Skarmory's Sturdy had been active, it might have been able to whittle Kyurem-W down enough to net a KO with the next Pokemon, with a Brave Bird, or to Defog and remove the Reflect that was up. A Mold Breaker Ability coupled with devastating offensive stats and fair-to-amazing bulk, makes Kyurem-W nearly unwallable. Sturdy can't activate, Levitate doesn't save you from Earth Power, Flash Fire doesn't stop Fusion Flare from hurting you on a Swap-in. And unless it's Choiced, it's got enough Coverage moves to hit just about everything neutrally (in fact it's hitting more things Super Effectively over Neutrally, almost twice as many actually if you run Ground+Fire+Dragon+Ice). Kyurem-W also sports Speed that, while subpar compared to OU's Base 100 cutoff, is enough that it can still outspeed a fair bit of the Pokedex as a whole. But that's not all, Kyurem-W also sports reliable recovery in the form of Roost, so if you simply forgo Dragon STAB (which, while neat, isn't always necessary, as a matter of fact it only hits 5 more Pokemon Super Effectively over Neutrally due to it, and I know at least one of them is Kingdra, which anything that carries Freeze Dry can actually handle well), it makes Kyurem-W's survivability go way up, that 25% from Rocks isn't quite as scary anymore.

I really don't think I'm the one to decide, but in the end, really, it feels like the argument is either to bring Ice up to a potentially broken status, or to bring it back down to where it was before.

I believe I have a solution to this problem, however it'll be quite a big suggestion which may be hard to implement. I'm going to make a post including it, perhaps in a week's time, so keep an eye out for that.

 

[Salemance]

Idk truly, but I find it joyous that ice is going in the direction of that. Many team types of teams have similar philosophy of protecting the golden goose if you will in order to help support it better.

Ice though now has something that gives it quite the advantage to make it competitive, but is it alright? I wouldn't mind less ice teams from a personal point of view, but from a metagame stand point, id love to see something besides the god forsaken Flying and Water teams. I'm still a little torn on the idea of K-Was a whole. Is it competitive enough to where ice can now have a reasonable amount of win/loses or is it too much that it is consistently winning match ups it shouldn't be just because it is what it is? I'm just sorta more typing my thoughts as I'm debating myself how the mon itself fits into the metagame.

IK that's the issue which we are trying to determine, I just find it an interesting quandary is all. Carry on :D

 

[QueenOfHax]

Speaking of Flying teams, I have a question: should mega evolutions that remove the original type of the team be allowed? More specifically Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados for mono-flying and Mega Aggron for steel. Doesn't this contradict the philosophy of monotype?

 

[I wuv you]

Speaking of Flying teams, I have a question: should mega evolutions that remove the original type of the team be allowed? More specifically Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados for mono-flying and Mega Aggron for steel. Doesn't this contradict the philosophy of monotype?

What about the other way around? Allowing mega charizard X on a dragon team and such.

 

[TM93]

Speaking of Flying teams, I have a question: should mega evolutions that remove the original type of the team be allowed? More specifically Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados for mono-flying and Mega Aggron for steel. Doesn't this contradict the philosophy of monotype?

Mega Aggron would be allowed on Steel, the issue by that train of logic would be Rock. And personally I don't think that'd be particularly fair unless you made a more complex rule that said you could use Megados on Mono-Dark but it MUST be holding the Mega Stone and you have to use the Mega Stone as soon is it hits the field, otherwise you're limiting a legitimately unbroken Pokemon to a single type.

And really, whether you think that'd be better for the "Spirit of Monotype" or not, in the end it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

Personally I think the "Base Form is what matters" Rule works just fine, Megados doesn't seem to give Flying some insane advantage, nor does Megazard X for Flying, or Megaggron for Rock, or the like.

Edit Just to clarify so we have a list of Type Shifts during Mega Evolution

Mega Charizard X (only an issue for Flying)
Mega Pinsir (not an issue at all, only allowed on Bug anyways, which doesn't change)
Mega Gyarados (only an issue for Flying)
Mega Mewtwo X (irrelevant here being an Uber which should never, EVER be unbanned, but even if it were, same boat as Mega Pinsir and Mega Ampharos)
Mega Ampharos (same boat as Mega Pinsir)
Mega Aggron (loses Rock typing, not an issue for Steel)

In the end, only 3 Pokemon would even potentially "break the spirit of Monotype" as it was put, which really isn't worth the hassle IMO.

For when ORAS comes out this list will obviously get a bit bigger, and while it's not speculation, I won't list those here as I wish to keep this current-gen (or... game as it may be).

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Mega Aggron would be allowed on Steel, the issue by that train of logic would be Rock. And personally I don't think that'd be particularly fair unless you made a more complex rule that said you could use Megados on Mono-Dark but it MUST be holding the Mega Stone and you have to use the Mega Stone as soon is it hits the field, otherwise you're limiting a legitimately unbroken Pokemon to a single type.

And really, whether you think that'd be better for the "Spirit of Monotype" or not, in the end it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

Personally I think the "Base Form is what matters" Rule works just fine, Megados doesn't seem to give Flying some insane advantage, nor does Megazard X for Flying, or Megaggron for Rock, or the like.

Edit Just to clarify so we have a list of Type Shifts during Mega Evolution

Mega Charizard X (only an issue for Flying)
Mega Pinsir (not an issue at all, only allowed on Bug anyways, which doesn't change)
Mega Gyarados (only an issue for Flying)
Mega Mewtwo X (irrelevant here being an Uber which should never, EVER be unbanned, but even if it were, same boat as Mega Pinsir and Mega Ampharos)
Mega Ampharos (same boat as Mega Pinsir)
Mega Aggron (loses Rock typing, not an issue for Steel)

In the end, only 3 Pokemon would even potentially "break the spirit of Monotype" as it was put, which really isn't worth the hassle IMO.

For when ORAS comes out this list will obviously get a bit bigger, and while it's not speculation, I won't list those here as I wish to keep this current-gen (or... game as it may be).

Okay totally disagree with allowing Megas on Mono Teams just because they turn into a Type. The only way that would obey the rules of Mono is if they came out the ball in their Mega Forms, and that just isn't a mechanic of the game. To do that would be a different Tier, probably Mono Hackmons.

 

[TM93]

Okay totally disagree with allowing Megas on Mono Teams just because they turn into a Type. The only way that would obey the rules of Mono is if they came out the ball in their Mega Forms, and that just isn't a mechanic of the game. To do that would be a different Tier, probably Mono Hackmons.

Mono Hackmons actually seems rather funny to me.

 

[Anttya]

Mono Hackmons actually seems rather funny to me.

Monohackmons would be me using Psychic or Ghost. mostly Mold Breaker + Lugia / Giratina spam

 

[Aquaslash]

Speaking of Flying teams, I have a question: should mega evolutions that remove the original type of the team be allowed? More specifically Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados for mono-flying and Mega Aggron for steel. Doesn't this contradict the philosophy of monotype?

If you did this, you'd have to allow Meloetta on fighting teams and that's kinda not right.

 

[QueenOfHax]

If you did this, you'd have to allow Meloetta on fighting teams and that's kinda not right.

If anything, with that logic you'd have to disallow Meloetta from mono-Psychic, but that's still a different scenario.
Mega evolutions are permanent, as in they persist even after switching out, while the same isn't true for Meloetta-P as well as pokemon that have their type temporarily changed because of a move or ability (i.e. Porygon using Conversion or Greninja's Protean).

My point is that permanent type changes break the spirit of monotype. Sure they might ne not be a big issue right now because Megazard X, Mega Gyarados and Mega Aggron are somewhat manageable, but as more mega evolutions are added (for example the soon-to-be-released Mega Altaria is also guilty of this) they could be abused and push a monotype beyond the line.

 

[DoW]

I disagree with the idea that megas that change types break the spirit of the metagame. While the metagame's certainly gone a very long way from people pretending to be gym leaders and E4, and I certainly wouldn't base any new tiering decisions on the fact this is where it came from, I still feel this is where the spirit of the metagame comes from, and all we need do is look at Bruno (fighting, but with Onix) or the Bug E4 from DPP with his ace as drapion to see that, so long as they're in the spirit of the trainer Game Freak considers them close enough. I could certainly imagine seeing MegaZard X on a flying E4's team, for example.

But all that is beside the point. We want a fun metagame, and I don't think the fact that these pokemon change types is taking the fun out of it at all. And unnecessary bans are, well... unnecessary. We should be focussing on the new unbans and making the tier fun, and perhaps if we finish that and there's disagreement on this topic we could return to it.

 

[SamuelTheBest]

I use a mono ice team for monotype
In this team i got an avalugg
my god,that avalugg
He can wall ALL metagame Physical mons
and he got mirror coat + sturdy!1 kill 100%
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-160829712 watch this battle
the enemy No have keldeo,6 physical pokemon..
avalugg do 5 kills
(Don't count the spam.we was only exited)
Avalugg,the little jesus *-*

Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Mirror Coat
- Curse
- Avalanche
- Recover
This is his set

 

[Grim]

pls

Sorry, but that's not a good set. Or a good type. Or a good special defense. Or a good pokemon.

 

[inscribe]

pls

Sorry, but that's not a good set. Or a good type. Or a good special defense. Or a good pokemon.

Ice is a decent type, and it kind of relies on Avalugg to remove Stealth Rock, since Cryogonal sucks,, but yeah, that set sucks really bad since it can't support its team in any way, so it's pretty much a waste of an Avalugg.

 

[Arash]

Speaking of Flying teams, I have a question: should mega evolutions that remove the original type of the team be allowed? More specifically Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados for mono-flying and Mega Aggron for steel. Doesn't this contradict the philosophy of monotype?

mega-aggron is the only reason rock is viable as a monotype, and to remove aggronite is to condemn rock to the worst of all types

mega-gyarados isn't even the mega of choice for flying teams (usually charizard), but it's not like it gains an awesome new attacking STAB, and along with megazard Y it is flying's best method of dealing with rotom-W

mega-zard X still looks like a flying mon, and flying teams will appreciate something that isn't weak to bolt-beam (unheard of for flying thus far). If anything I would insist zardX be allowed on dragon, as dragon teams really need something neutral to fairy (sorry dragalge) and immune to burns

My proposition is to allow select megas (zard-x, amphy, gyara, pinsir, and later on sceptile/audino/altaria, etc). to be playable starting in mega form, so that they can be used on teams that share typing only after mega-evolution

 

[all falls down]

mega-aggron is the only reason rock is viable as a monotype, and to remove aggronite is to condemn rock to the worst of all types

mega-gyarados isn't even the mega of choice for flying teams (usually charizard), but it's not like it gains an awesome new attacking STAB, and along with megazard Y it is flying's best method of dealing with rotom-W

mega-zard X still looks like a flying mon, and flying teams will appreciate something that isn't weak to bolt-beam (unheard of for flying thus far). If anything I would insist zardX be allowed on dragon, as dragon teams really need something neutral to fairy (sorry dragalge) and immune to burns

My proposition is to allow select megas (zard-x, amphy, gyara, pinsir, and later on sceptile/audino/altaria, etc). to be playable starting in mega form, so that they can be used on teams that share typing only after mega-evolution

Flying has many ways to deal with rotom-wash, including Zapdos, Charizard-X, Charizard-Y, Dragonite, Articuno, etc..

Also to your proposition to allow megas to start in their mega form, that would go against game mechanics and the way mega evolutions were intended to work. For example, charizard x would not take the extra stealth rock damage.

this isnt hackmons :^(

 

[inscribe]

It doesn't make sense to break Game Mechanics for no reason. Maybe if there was an actual argument,, like 'to make the meta better xD' I might listen to this, but this isn't even going to make this Metagame better at all. As All Falls Down stated, Charizard-Mega-X would take less Stealth Rock Damage overall, and he would be an even bigger threat. Again, I see no reason to break Game Mechanics if this Metagame doesn't get anything good out of it.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Welp I have waited a few days now. I didn't see any posts to respond to the statement I have been sticking too... Like I said if you can prove that despite being broken in OU and approach the reasons it was banned from that tier, while showing those reasons don't apply to monotype I would be all for pro-unban
just gonna organize my arguments.

• INEFFICIENT

Efficiency

The metagame should be as efficient as possible in execution of gameplay and resolving outcomes.
Explanation:
Anything that does not directly help the metagame, hurts the metagame. Many elements of ingame Pokemon require little more than time, perseverance, or rote repetition to succeed. The metagame should place no value on these things. For serious competitive players, these elements are boring and distracting. They lessen the competitive challenge of the game and discourage expert players. The metagame should present the most direct and efficient mechanisms for players to play the game and determine winners. Any game element that does not directly contribute to improving the metagame, is inefficient and unnecessary. Such elements should be mitigated or removed, if possible.​

​

Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D| Before the new unbans/bans psychic was arguably the best type in mono...
Mega Mawile | Fairy is already good. Some recent posts clarified that. It's a top-mid tier monotype
Mega Pinsir | Bug mono had a significant boosts in talonflame and I already explained the massive arsenal bug has available in an earlier post
Genesect | ^^^^ and Steel was still manageable without aegislash. I don't know why Inscribe has been putting it like it was the end of the world, it's just that you couldn't be generic and have a successful steel team. I switched to a more Offensively Focused Balance with my Steel and haven't looked back.
Showcase of The Team
Just a thought: It's already been shown grass vs water is nearly neutral and even if grass got the jump on water a lot is that a reason to excuse an auto-loss clause?

• ABSTAIN

Aegislash - It was a very controversial ban.

• Broken

Mega Mawile - This thing has a nasty Priority to take huge chunks out of its checks, has the highest attack in the game, had 0 counters in ou and now in mono its not broken because...? Fairy is a top-mid tier monotype and as mentioned before if a change to the metagame isn't efficient it's not healthy.

Skymin - Well I spent about 2 posts bashing the poor thing, long story short: Auto Loss clauses, lack of counters, RNG, Seed Flare ;-;, Outspeeds most of the scarves monos have availabe, and does the opposite of what it was added for, it promotes overcentralization. Oh and it got a 100% vote ban 51-0 2nd post


Kyu-W - Wow that 6-0 speaks for itself, but QueenofHax and other posts on page 25 speak on kyu-W. I have also posted about it before. In Summary| Ice has gotten even less diverse, it didn't promote diversity in the tier, It doesn't have any reliable counters, LO Bait sets can ruin your usual ways of dealing with it(see replay). Anttyaz post touches on it a bit

Genesect - I bashed this guy too. I don't really think much needs to be said about him at this point because no one has really been arguing for him recently(Atleast directly?) I made a good post for our fren genesect :]]]] 2nd post

Deoxys-D/Deoxy-S - I forget who, but someone mentioned it was banned because of its combination with bisharp. Well I did some research.

February 27, 2013
After Round 10 of suspect testing, Deoxys-D was banned.
After many users clamoring to get it suspected for a few rounds, the council finally decided to suspect Deoxys-D. It was suspected for the same reason Deoxys-S was: the ability to set up entry hazards reliably. While Deoxys-D had none of that Speed and much worse offenses, it was a still a terror to behold. Boasting insane defensive stats, above-average Speed, and an expansive movepool, Deoxys-D could rarely be stopped from setting up hazards. With Taunt, you couldn't set up on it. Going back to its expansive movepool, another reason Deoxys-D was so threatening was because of its versatility. Between Magic Coat, Skill Swap, Psycho Boost, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Hidden Power Fire, Superpower, Seismic Toss, Night Shade, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Recover, you had almost no idea what Deoxys-D was running. It also ran many different items, including Leftovers, Mental Herb, Rocky Helmet, and Tanga Berry. While it of course couldn't run all of these options at once, it still meant you had no idea what Deoxys-D was running when you came up against it. This versatility pushed Deoxys-D just over the edge, getting it banned.

- OU Ban History

Now ofc that is Gen V but the reasons still apply

As for Deoxys-S

December 8, 2011
After the switch to a council system, the OU Council comprised of Earthworm, JabbaTheGriffin, and Aldaron decided that Deoxys-S was unhealthy for OU and removed it from the tier.
Round 5 had ended, but the policymakers of Smogon were not happy. They found that the slates every round were becoming increasingly more stupid and Excadrill being banned after being not banned for four rounds was a wake-up call. The suspect system was failing, at least in the eyes of the powers that be, so a council composed of three of the greatest policy makers on Smogon, Earthworm, JabbaTheGriffin, and Aldaron was formed. They decided that Deoxys-S was unhealthy for the OU metagame after heated discussion and unanimously voted to oust it. Deoxys-S could do its job with ease, which was getting guaranteed Stealth Rock and layer of Spikes at the very least or getting up dual screens right off the bat and setting them up constantly throughout the match thanks to its blazing Speed, usually in the lead position. Every Rapid Spinner was KOed with the right move, such as Starmie with Thunderbolt, Tentacruel with Psycho Boost, and Forretress with Hidden Power Fire. Deoxys-S also had the ability to threaten Tyranitar, a Pokemon that can hold it to just Stealth Rock, with Superpower, given that Tyranitar did not hold a Chople Berry. Due to its blazing Speed and massive neutral and super effective coverage, it was among the greatest revenge killers in the game, a testament to its effectiveness because its offenses are inferior to most every other offensive Pokemon in OU. Thundurus and Excadrill, both major threats to Deoxys-S, had been banned in Round 5, and Deoxys-S followed suit with one of the most controversy-filled ban debates in Smogon history. At last, it seemed as though the metagame had settled down, but this was only for now, with many more changes still yet to come.

Statistics

• Deoxys-S: 5 Ban, 0 Do Not Ban, 0 Abstain—100% Ban, banned

Similar to deo-D the reasons it was banned still applies to this time. While I personally never had a problem I'm still gonna play Devil's Advocate for this one.

For all of these pokes listed under broken if you would please explain to me how their reasoning of getting banned in OU doesn't apply to monotype as I've been requesting in nearly all my recent posts that would be great. The only hint of a rebuttal I have gotten was, "OU is not mono" to which I responded they could still be compared because unlike most other OMs. Monotype keeps the mechanics of OU but instead of adjusting mechanics it restricts teambuilding. They are at the very least Comparable