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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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The biggest issues with Mega Beedrill is that Landorus-T having such high usage really hurts it. It can run Knock Off to deal with Lando-T to a degree, but then Heatran, Excadrill, and some other things gives it trouble. It can really only afford 3 attacks+Protect tbh. Even outside of that, Skarm most likely wouldn't handle it on Stall, Gliscor is a better answer imo.
Not saying it's not going to be bad or anything, but it does sound like the perfect BL mon instead of an OU mon.
Not saying it's not going to be bad or anything, but it does sound like the perfect BL mon instead of an OU mon.
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In the advent of Pokemon like Mega Lopunny and Megallade, does Aegislash really deserve to be Uber anymore?
We're not discussing bans, and even then, none of the new unbanned Megas aside from maybe Swampert or Sableye handle Aegis well at all.
Neither of them check Aegislash, it's the other way around; they don't like being crippled by King's Shield. While Mega Lopunny can win, it has to predict perfectly to do so.
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So, with Mence gone, is CharX once again king of the dragons?
Not necessarily; I'd say it has large competition from Altaria - albeit, it still holds the extremely good niche of being immune to burns.
Nope. Even if is an awesome mega, 2 of is best checks are top 5 usage (landorus and azumarill). King (and queen) of dragons regarding OU are latwins. They get both mevos, they can fit in different role. Also they have defog, but they can bring an offensive presence in the team, and this is good for every playstyle.
For the 4th slot u have more options.
I'm fairly certain that Charizard can also use Defog. It is suboptimal, but Defog is a sub optimal move in general imo unless you don't run any hazards yourself, which most players do.
Defog isn't a suboptimal move imo. You can still run hazards even if you run Defog, and the cost of Defog is well worth the reward-it is really easy to remove entry hazards with Defog, and unlike Rapid Spin you will pretty much always remove hazards with Defog. The only thing is if you do run Defog, you'll just need a Rocks user that can repeatedly do the job throughout the game imo, but to be quite frank there are plenty of Stealth Rock users in the metagame that can do the job repeatedly. Defog is far from a suboptimal move, it's actually one of the best moves in the game because guaranteed hazard removal is just incredible and its presence is a huge reason why Bisharp is so good (in addition to it being a fine sweeper), and is also a must on quite a few mons that have it, like Zapdos and Mandibuzz. It does remove the hazards you set up, but it's worth the price when you're guaranteed to remove the hazards from your side of the field.
I only use it as a last resort if I really can't fit a spinner on the team.
If the only hazard you set up is rocks, that's fine, but spin is still a better move simply because you aren't undoing a turn of your own set up. If you run some thing like Talonflame or Charizard then Defog might be worth undoing your own hazards because you need hazard removal at that point, but if you just need a little removal for something like a Scizor then what's the point?
I will maintain that it is always better to run Defog on a team that doesn't set up any hazards at all so you don't end up wasting turns because you weren't properly prepared for the opponent.
Defog also has a much better distribution. Making it better in some instances. It's not that difficult to set up Rocks multiple times, for Hazard stacking it may be less appreciated, but not many teams hazard stack anymore.
Does anybody have an opinion on Mega Zam using dazzling gleam for Sableye? Right now I'm running timid with 4 attacks (usual coverage + HP ice) and Sableye is a real pain. HP ice is really only for a few pokemon like Chomp, Dnite, Gliscor, and previously Mence. Dazzling gleam has a chance to OHKO Dnite after rocks and can KO Chomp pretty cleanly after a little prior damage. The only thing that would then become a problem is spdef Gliscor, but I'd much rather have a chance vs Sableye than Gliscor considering Sableye is becoming fairly common and is a lot more dangerous. Obviously I'm referring to Mega Sableye but even lefties Sableye with max spdef can be a pain in Zam's ass.
Lefties Sableye
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Sableye
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 194-230 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At +1
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
This could be a terrible idea so please let me know if you think it is, but I hate late game cleaning sessions being stopped because Zam has nothing to smack Sableye with, and it's not as if it will only be for sableye. I didn't calc with rocks up because I'm assuming a competent Sableye team will be able to keep me from setting up rocks, but with rocks up Zam cleanly beats a full HP Mega Sableye 1v1 even if it calm minds on the first turn.
As for retaliation, both regular and Mega Sableye (assuming standard defensive CM) can't OHKO Zam with knock off or dark pulse.
Edit: I forgot to mention Greninja. A huge benefit of Dazzling Gleam is being able to OHKO Greninja during a sweep instead of having to rely on Focus Miss, which if you have used Mega Zam before, you'll know that's huge.
Lefties Sableye
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Sableye
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 194-230 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At +1
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
This could be a terrible idea so please let me know if you think it is, but I hate late game cleaning sessions being stopped because Zam has nothing to smack Sableye with, and it's not as if it will only be for sableye. I didn't calc with rocks up because I'm assuming a competent Sableye team will be able to keep me from setting up rocks, but with rocks up Zam cleanly beats a full HP Mega Sableye 1v1 even if it calm minds on the first turn.
As for retaliation, both regular and Mega Sableye (assuming standard defensive CM) can't OHKO Zam with knock off or dark pulse.
Edit: I forgot to mention Greninja. A huge benefit of Dazzling Gleam is being able to OHKO Greninja during a sweep instead of having to rely on Focus Miss, which if you have used Mega Zam before, you'll know that's huge.
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Dazzling Gleam was already an option so it could revenge kill Kingdra, definitely viable if you want to smack Sableye
I have little with oras ou in practice, but in theory greninja + mega scep is strong as fuck. Both shits on each others typical counters (well green has no real counters). And because both are so high speed that they shut on both offense and defense alike.
Also double dance diancie shits on offense and stall pret
pretty hard, esp sableye based teams
Also double dance diancie shits on offense and stall pret
pretty hard, esp sableye based teams
I've been using a lot of SubToxic Heatran lately. This set in particular:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 140 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
There's a lot of setup fodder for this set running around right now, e.g. Latias, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Talonflame, Skarmory... Heatran tends to force a lot of switches in general (predicting SR for example) and this set takes advantage of that. The spread is so that you outspeed defensive Rotom-W and Landorus-T even when they speedcreep. Another nice feature of this spread is that Rotom-W can't break your Sub with Volt Switch, and on top of that you can easily stall it out of Hydro Pumps. Essentially turning one of the most common switchins to Heatran into setup fodder. The rest is dumped into SpAtk with a Modest nature so you still hit reasonably hard: Flamethrower is for the extra power and so you don't burn stuff like Rotom-W by accident as you want to Toxic them instead.
So yeah use more SubToxic Heatran guys, it's not bad at all.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 152 HP / 140 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
There's a lot of setup fodder for this set running around right now, e.g. Latias, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Talonflame, Skarmory... Heatran tends to force a lot of switches in general (predicting SR for example) and this set takes advantage of that. The spread is so that you outspeed defensive Rotom-W and Landorus-T even when they speedcreep. Another nice feature of this spread is that Rotom-W can't break your Sub with Volt Switch, and on top of that you can easily stall it out of Hydro Pumps. Essentially turning one of the most common switchins to Heatran into setup fodder. The rest is dumped into SpAtk with a Modest nature so you still hit reasonably hard: Flamethrower is for the extra power and so you don't burn stuff like Rotom-W by accident as you want to Toxic them instead.
So yeah use more SubToxic Heatran guys, it's not bad at all.
ty i will be abusing that from now on
While it's true that Greninja can run low kick for Empoleon, it's a very niche pick for a Pokemon that already suffers from four moveslot syndrome, and Greninja misses out on coverage by running it; I feel Empoleon remains as good a Greninja counter as any, but low kick is interesting to note
Low kick actually gives greninja far better coverage.
Low kick is hardly a niche pick at all. It can OHKO Kyurem-B after rocks, OHKO both tyranitars, hits spdef heatran harder than hydro pump, and can 3HKO chansey which is big because you can reveal it late game when chansey has some prior damage and potentially 2HKO it. A lot of people are even talking about how water coverage is becoming less and less useful, and that low kick hits everything hydro is for + more. There's also no accuracy issues.
So, yeah, low kick has better coverage than hydro pump.
Edit: Ninja'd by Ender
So, yeah, low kick has better coverage than hydro pump.
Edit: Ninja'd by Ender
So with the fall of mega mence's evil tyrannical reign, comes charizard-x to reclaim his throne. But seriously charizard x is as relevant and dangerous as ever and I have had some good success using this set, which I didnt invent but decided to use it because of how effective I thought it would be in the meta.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
This is what I think is the best charx set in the current meta for a few reasons:
1. Mega Altaria seems to be generally considered a better bulky dragon dancer, this set allows charx to take advantage of his more offensive typing and give him an edge over altaria.
2. Tailwind is better than dragon dance against offensive teams, as charx at +1 speed is still going to be outsped by scarfers and can be revenge killed more easily. I believe nothing unboosted outspeeds charx is with a tailwind(someone correct me if Im wrong), and with his near unresisted stab coverage(fk off azu) he doesnt miss the lack of power from dd, at least against offensive teams.
3. Swords Dance allows him to just fkin massacre stall, especially mega sableye stall. Everytime sableye comes in that is a free SD and something is going to die, he doesnt need the speed agaisnt stall that dragon dance would give him, he needs the power and this allows him to have all the power he needs. With an adamant nature even quagsire is going to die to outrage and cant switchin, again combined with healing wish latias, charx will win you the game agaisnt stall so long as you arent careless.
Once I realized how well this seemed on paper I tested it out and have not been disappointed, it is safe to say that charx is going to remain a solid S rank mon and he istn slowing down any time soon. Let me know what you guys think about this!
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
This is what I think is the best charx set in the current meta for a few reasons:
1. Mega Altaria seems to be generally considered a better bulky dragon dancer, this set allows charx to take advantage of his more offensive typing and give him an edge over altaria.
2. Tailwind is better than dragon dance against offensive teams, as charx at +1 speed is still going to be outsped by scarfers and can be revenge killed more easily. I believe nothing unboosted outspeeds charx is with a tailwind(someone correct me if Im wrong), and with his near unresisted stab coverage(fk off azu) he doesnt miss the lack of power from dd, at least against offensive teams.
3. Swords Dance allows him to just fkin massacre stall, especially mega sableye stall. Everytime sableye comes in that is a free SD and something is going to die, he doesnt need the speed agaisnt stall that dragon dance would give him, he needs the power and this allows him to have all the power he needs. With an adamant nature even quagsire is going to die to outrage and cant switchin, again combined with healing wish latias, charx will win you the game agaisnt stall so long as you arent careless.
Once I realized how well this seemed on paper I tested it out and have not been disappointed, it is safe to say that charx is going to remain a solid S rank mon and he istn slowing down any time soon. Let me know what you guys think about this!
I agree with you that Charizard X is great in this metagame and so is the set you posted. Ive got another set that I'm sure we've all seen before but isnt as common as the bulky dd albeit more effective in this metagame imo.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Roost / Earthquake / Thunder Punch
I personally prefer jolly dd zard x opposed to adamant dd zard x due to the omnipresent scarf lando-t. With 184 speed evs and a jolly nature, Charizard X outspeeds scarf Landorus-T after a single dragon dance and has a good chance to ohko it with flare blitz (guaranteed after rocks iirc). With 252 attack evs this Charizard also reaches a higher attack than the standard bulky adamant dd zard x too. The first three move are obvious and there are a few choices in the last slot. Roost can be used to aid in setting up and remove rocks damage or flare blitz recoil. Earthquake destroys Heatran and hit Tyranitar harder than anything else. Finally, Thunder Punch helps against Azumarill, Slowbro, and Gyarados who would otherwise have a good matchup against this set.
What I find so great about this set is that Charizard X's three most common and easy to fit onto a team "counters" (scarf lando-t, azumarill, and heatran) can easily be beaten without really limiting the overall effectiveness of Charizard X.
Just curious, but are there any KOes you miss out on by using Dragon Claw over Outrage? I like the set, but would rather not lock myself into a move if I don't have to.
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